If Tracy can't go, who starts?

by UofTOrange on Nov 18, 2008 12:49 PM CST in Random Commentary

Much was made about the Artest trade because it was supposed to give us depth at SF and SG. Unfortunately we didn't know that both McGrady, and a usually rugged Battier would both possibly be out. So I'm going to toss my opinion out there. The starter should be Von Wafer if Shane Battier doesn't find a way to ride in on a white horse by Wednesday.

I like Brent Barry, I like what he brings to the team, but I think he's more needed in the second wave at SG. I also don't think he's available for starter's minutes at this point in his career.

Luther Head is NOT an option. He is a terrible ball handler and cannot create his own shot. Right now every time he sees the court he tries to do too much because he knows it may be his last. If all he did was find the corner and try to get open it wouldn't be so bad. But in Adelman's offense he has to handle the ball just about every possession and that is asking for disaster.

Wafer is athletic and quick. His shooting touch seems to be solid and while he makes young player decision with the ball, he seems to have a feel for the offense and how to throw an entry pass to Yao. He also can get out of the way after the pass and how to get open. I actually think he's been missed a lot when he was open for three. I'm hoping he gets the chance to start so that they can really see what the kid can do. It could be very enlightening.

There is obviously the chance that Shane Battier comes back. During the telecast last night they said he would be practicing with the team today or tomorrow. Now that could just be a test, but maybe? I don't want him rushing back. Frankly SG is the worst position on the court for the Mavericks and even a Wafer/Barry combo is better than a Green/Wright combo. So in theory the Rockets should be okay without him. But if you are ready Shane, let's get that defense back on the court!

Poll

Who should start?

Von Wafer

46 votes

Brent Barry

19 votes

Luther Head

9 votes

Play Artest at the 2, Landry at the 3

53 votes

127 votes | Poll has closed

0 recs | Comment 27 comments |

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Comments

Wafer

Barry’s the better player, but he’s better as a backup. Luther Head sucks. Wafer needs minutes.

I don’t see Landry as a 3, no matter what Yahoo! Sports Fantasy Basketball tells me.

Third Quarter Collapse: An Orlando Magic blog at SB Nation

by Ben Q Rock on Nov 18, 2008 1:32 PM CST 0 recs

wat?

This is actually an argument?

Luther Head should never play. Ever.
Battier should not be rushed back.
And Wafer has been okay so long as he does not have to run the offense.

by grungedave on Nov 18, 2008 1:36 PM CST 0 recs

Took so long

Man I can’t believe McTeary made it this far into the season. He was about due for an injury. What a chump. The Rockets need to ditch him and get someone with heart.

We bleed True Blue.
www.truebluejazz.com

by CB Jack on Nov 18, 2008 2:13 PM CST 0 recs

Do you ever think it's sad

that you post here more often than over at the SBN Jazz site? What’s the deal? Yearning for a real team from a real city to support?

And T-Mac has heart. You see it in him all the time. And we’ve got other players with heart, too – Ron Artest comes to mind.

by Only_A_Lad on Nov 18, 2008 2:27 PM CST up 0 recs

And you seem to have confused

“heart” with “a good knee.” I know they don’t teach biology in Utah, so I can understand your confusion.

by Only_A_Lad on Nov 18, 2008 2:29 PM CST up 0 recs

rememeber

… this is a guy who cheers for Carlos Boozer and AK-47. He’s got issues with “perspective”

by grungedave on Nov 18, 2008 2:29 PM CST up 0 recs

No it's not sad

It’s not sad because the truth is I like this site more than SLC Dunk. I consider Dave a personal friend :)

Plus, Rockets fans are my favorite to poke fun at.

No Tracy doesn’t need new knees. He needs a new heart. Go back and watch your last two playoff appearances and you’ll see what I mean. He is not a leader. He is not a superstar. He IS overrated.

And by Biology you mean rocks and stars and stuff right?

We bleed True Blue.
www.truebluejazz.com

by CB Jack on Nov 18, 2008 3:30 PM CST up 0 recs

I'm glad we amuse you.

Y’all are a lot more fun to argue with than most of Houston’s other rivalries (there’s too much personal hatred involved with the Tennessee rivalry, Atlanta fans haven’t cared in five years, and Cardinals fans are too boring).

Really, though, T-Mac performed admirably in the playoffs. Last season he never had a game with fewer than 20 points, and in the last game, he dropped 40 points on y’all. He might be too laid back to be a “leader,” but (oddly) Artest has stepped into that role. In the end, Les Alexander pays McGrady to score (something he’s not doing well right now, but still), not to be an on-the-court leader. That’s what Battier did last year, and it’s what Artest is doing right now.

And if I were you, I’d be more concerned with the Jazz’s inability to hold the Thunder to fewer than 90 points than with whether or not T-Mac can keep Dorsey away from the strip clubs.

by Only_A_Lad on Nov 18, 2008 6:06 PM CST up 0 recs

Admirably?

Called out his teammates and the refs for the loss. My point is that T-Mac is

1. not a smart basketball player. Athletic, but not smart.
2. not a leader.
3. not a superstar
…
147. a cry baby. At least Kirilenko did it in private, not at a postgame press conference.

The Rockets would be MUCH better off moving T-Mac. He is your achilles heel.

We bleed True Blue.
www.truebluejazz.com

by CB Jack on Nov 18, 2008 10:49 PM CST up 0 recs

I am pretty sure that everyone on this website will disagree with one and three. If you mean that he is no longer a superstar, well I probably agree. But lets not forget that he led the nba in scoring twice; you have to be pretty super to do that.

Anyways my real problem is with your assumption that he is not a smart basketball player. His basketball iq is probably in the top five in the league. If you watch him play he never seems to make a bad decision. A lot of players will take what seems like bad shots to us, but to them it seems like a shot they can make. He does settle for jumpers too often, but that is not for a lack of awareness, rather because of laziness. At least that is what it seems like to me.

About him not being a leader, well, I am not entirely sure that it is absolutely necessary for a basketball player or any athlete to be a leader to be successful. How are we supposed to know if they are leaders or not? Rafer Alston generally directs our offense but I am pretty sure most people would not consider him a leader. I just think that using the term “leader” is ridiculous when we have no idea what is going on the court.

by amaar on Nov 19, 2008 1:19 AM CST up 0 recs

Yes, admirably

1) T-Mac’s main problem (as pointed out by amaar, is that he settles too often for the outside jumpshot. To be fair, he’s (historically) very good at that, but he needs to drive to the basket more often. But his assist-to-turnover ratio (I’d consider that a good indication of basketball smarts, wouldn’t you?) has been better than 2:1 throughout his career.

2) As I said, he’s not paid to be a leader. He’s paid to play. But your main evidence for his lack of leadership is when he called out his teammates last season. Well, he was right. And sometimes telling everybody that they failed is necessary. Maybe that’s what was required of a leader at the time.

3) Look, McGrady obviously isn’t the player he was five years ago. Nobody would argue that. But he’s still a star player. Is he a superstar? I can’t answer that question, primarily because there’s no real criteria for “superstardom.” I can tell you that he still has produced 1.1 Win Shares thus far this season, despite playing while injured. I can tell you that Basketball Prospectus projects him for fewer wins than Artest (and roughly half those of Yao). What does that mean? Simply put, T-Mac is still an excellent player, and one of the league’s best, but he is declining. Maybe that means he’s a superstar. Eventually, the Rockets will have to look for someone to replace McGrady, but that’s a few seasons away.

Dude, your point was that McGrady lacks “heart.” What do you call playing while injured (well, I’d call it stupid, but if he didn’t, dumbfucks like you would say he’s soft)? He’s been out there every night playing despite his own ailments. That’s heart.

by Only_A_Lad on Nov 19, 2008 9:33 AM CST up 0 recs

Update from the Chronicle

Chron article

Looks like the question of who will start might not matter. T-Mac may be on the court to start on Wednesday afterall.
I think this may have been one of his classic injury hyperbole interviews…
In any case, Rockets should be on track with their team development and ready to hand it to the Mavs.

by PhilippeinBoston on Nov 18, 2008 4:38 PM CST 0 recs

This Rockets team is going to be the death of us…

by Jeffrey on Nov 18, 2008 4:42 PM CST 0 recs

who is the joker

Who just voted for Luther Head? Twice…?

by grungedave on Nov 18, 2008 4:46 PM CST 0 recs

CB Jack – taunt TMac all you want, but remember – Utah couldn’t win a championship with two HOFers on the court together for about 100 years. Tell me about heart now.

Main Point -

I think McGrady is mainly frustrated that he doesn’t feel 100%. We’ll never know what it feels like to be one of the 100 best athletes on the planet and realize that we’re not capable of doing what we usually do.

This latest injury has made me think more about TMac’s career. What’s happening now is the test for McGrady in coming years. He’s not going to have the all-world quickness and explosiveness in a few years. Age and injuries take their toll. The question is, will he go down the path of Jordan, or Drexler. Now, don’t get me wrong, I love Clyde Drexler, and from UH to the middle of his career he was one of the best guys in the game to watch. At his peak he was a simply breathtaking talent, like TMac. But as he aged, and got one knee problem after another he became less and less effective. Sure, sometimes he could summon up the old “Glide” and destroy an opponent, but not consistently. And his shot was too hard and flat to make him an excellent perimeter player.

Contrast Drexler with Jordan. No one seems to believe this now, but Drexler and Jordan were a very close comp in their early years. It’s later in his career that Jordan put distance between him and Clyde. Why? Because he learned that little turnaround, and taught himself to be a reliable outside shooter in general. Even more, he became one of the most tenacious defenders in the NBA.

McGrady, right now, is nearing that crossroads. He’s a superior athletic talent who is going to need to discover Act II very soon. Which will it be? He’s already a better shooter than Drexler ever was, and I believe he’s as physically gifted as either Jordan or Drexler. If he learns a little turnaround, and gets more consistent shooting (ie taking only good shots, not just shots he can get off using his crazy elusiveness) Tracy can age very well indeed.

If TMac can do this now, he’ll save a good portion of the explosive, dunking driving game for when he needs it, or for when he can ice a game with it.

Ok, that’s my $0.02. Any thoughts out there?

by Xiane on Nov 18, 2008 8:36 PM CST 0 recs

What is weird is that around 5 years ago I really thought that Tracy Mcgrady would become a player similar to Reggie Miller once his athleticism gave out on him. He was a pretty good shooter around the time and I just assumed he would get better or stay consistent. He is a really weird player in that his percentages have fluctuated so much that I can not really tell if his percentages lag because he is injured so often or because he is just a really bad shooter. When he is on, it seems like every shot he puts up goes in.

by amaar on Nov 19, 2008 1:25 AM CST up 0 recs

Well, the other sad thing going on with TMac is his back. I think if his back is right he can hit any shot. If not, he can’t hit many. I’m not sure there is an answer there, but maybe it explains his erratic percentages.

by Xiane on Nov 19, 2008 5:50 AM CST up 0 recs

TMac's back

To the best of his knowledge his back is not hurting him much anymore. Right now it’s his knee that is really getting him. Now that might toss his back out of whack, but his knee is the issue

by UofTOrange on Nov 19, 2008 12:51 PM CST up 0 recs

Clyde Drexler didn't start losing a meaninful amount of games to injury until he was 33

I know he only played 49 games at age 30, but that was an anomally in his career until after 32. Usually he played an average amount of games, 75 plus. From 23 – 29 Clyde averaged 79.2 games a year.

Tracy McGrady is 29 right now. While I get your point, that’s not an accurate comparison.
Tracy has played, since being 23
24 – 67 games
25 – 78 games
26 – 47 games
27 – 71 games
28 – 66 games
In the same frame that Clyde average 79 games and less than 4% of the season out, Tracy has averaged 65.8 games or 20% of the season out

Tracy has had injury problems for far too long. He refuses to change his game up, and from what I can tell he doesn’t practice anything new to improve his game. At least Yao tries to add something to his game each year and he’s the guy there already when everyone else gets there and the guy that is still there when they leave. From everything I’ve ever heard Tracy is one of the last guys there and the first to leave.

I love Tracy McGrady, always have. I wanted him badly when Orlando signed him and was ecstatic when we traded for him. I own two different jerseys of his even. But he’s not a superstar anymore because he isn’t willing to work on his game to make it that way. And I think that was your point with Jordan more than with Clyde. I think Drexler did work on his game, but he was never a fundamentals player. He did have his natural ability on the court longer than Tracy has though. Fading out at 33 is one thing. Fading out at 27-28 like Tracy has is a whole other game.

by UofTOrange on Nov 19, 2008 1:05 PM CST up 0 recs

Your points are well-taken. When discussing Drexler, I didn’t really mean that he wasn’t durable, or tough, because he certainly was. I mainly meant that the loss of athleticism and the gradual build up of small injuries reduced his overall effectiveness long before he actually called it a career. Even at a reduced level from mid-to-late career onwards there were only a couple of other players in the whole NBA that you’d start ahead of him.

You’re right that Drexler was demonstrably less injury prone than McGrady. Like you I worry about McGrady not accepting that he must make changes, and add new facets to his game. At his size and innate quickness if learned Jordan’s turnaround it’d be good for an easy 14 points a game, or more, by itself. Hakeem perfected The Dreamshake that carried his offense in the latter part of his career over many seasons. If Tmac would begin working now on something like that his greatness can survive his athletic peak. If he doesn’t…

My comment on McGrady’s back was speculation on his erratic shooting percentages in different seasons. I haven’t done the research to see if the low percentages match up with past back trouble, personal issues or something else. They may be the product of not being as dedicated a player in practice as he could be. Once something skews off in his shot he doesn’t have enough foundational work to go back and fix what’s wrong. The bouncing percentages may just be random, in that he’s a player with a huge amount of volatility in his performance.

by Xiane on Nov 19, 2008 3:12 PM CST up 0 recs

Going back to the post topic & question

Although playing Landry, Artest, Scola, Yao at the same time might seem tempting, there really won’t be any big body scoring left on the bench. In other words, we can’t afford to have our only two offensive PFs,sorry Chuck Hayes, on the court at the same time as Yao.

Luther I don’t understand. I thought he was coming along nicely a couple of years ago, heralded as the scoring boost the Rockets desperately needed from their bench. I do like him, but as far as what we’ve seen lately, Von Wafer has been more productive on the offensive end. Even if Mac plays, Von should still get some minutes along with possibly Barry off the bench.

I might get some looks of dismay for this but, any word on Francis?

Excitedly nervous in 08.

by Ultra Horn on Nov 19, 2008 1:17 AM CST 0 recs