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Around SBN: News And Other Updates Leading Up To Pats-Giants

Maybe the Rockets DO Have a Star.

To put it simply, I think I'm done with the Texans for the year. I'll tune back in the spring to see who gets drafted, but I'm not watching this shit anymore this season. Unfortunately, the Astros are mired in suck and the Rockets' stars are injured. Not a lot to look forward to over the next few months, Houston sports-wise.

Well, I think the Rockets' start to the season has refuted a lot of that sentiment, but, as Dave is quick to note, the Rockets don't have a star on the roster right now, and the Rockets, while good, are not a team that can expect to go far in the playoffs. Now, I think the "star" epithet is largely meaningless, mostly just referring to whoever gets on ESPN highlights a lot, but it has some meaning. Typically, when people say "star," they mean someone who scores a lot. If we break this down a little further, it can be taken to mean "a player who uses a lot of possessions and converts them efficiently." There's no statistical "line" that will delineate "stars" from "great role-player," but I think we can agree that stars will show similar statistics, right?

So let's look at some numbers. Here are the statistical lines (courtesy of Basketball-Reference.com) of three NBA Power Forwards, two of whom are widely considered to be "stars" on some level. First, here are the per-36 rates:

Perminutepf_medium

Player A has a clear advantage in scoring over B (and, to a lesser extent, C), and smaller advantages in rebounding and blocks. However, he (as well as C) is much more turnover prone than B, and is nowhere near as skilled of a passer.

Personally, I never really liked per-minute stats. Teams play at wildly divergent paces. Still, per-minute stats capture some of the "star" qualities in a player - the ability to take a lot of shots, for instance. But let's look at per-possession stats:

  Perpossessionpf_medium

Things start to look a little different. Players A and C are using similar portions of their teams' possessions, they have similar assist numbers, and are fairly close in effective Field Goal percentage and blocks. B's rebounding looks much better, his advantage in passing looks even more solid, and he is obviously the least turnover-prone. But A has the best shooting numbers, and his rapid, efficient scoring leads to massive advantages in compiled metrics like PER and O-Rating. And, by Win Shares, he has contributed the most wins in 19 games.

Star-divide

In case you haven't guessed by now, Carl Landry is A. LaMarcus Aldridge is B, and Amare Stoudemire is C.

First,, some caveats:

  1. Carl Landry's numbers come as the team's go-to scorer on the second unit. Still, he plays a good number of his minutes against the other team's starters.
  2. Amare is having a down year, and while certainly not career-lows, these numbers reflect a season that is probably Amare's worst since 2002-2003.
  3. This isn't a particularly great season for LaMarcus, either, and his offensive efficiency has declined a bit from last year. But he's doing better on defense, so maybe it balances out a bit.
  4. I personally don't think Aldridge is a "star," but people were talking about him as an "all-star level" player during the offseason, and this is more about appellation than actual production.

Okay, with all that said, we need to ask two questions. First, do Carl's numbers in themselves warrant the star title? Second, do similar levels of production as other "stars" warrant that title?

I don't really have the answers to those questions. I ask you to provide them in the comments section. But I will say this:

Carl isn't a "go-to" scorer at the end of games (though I think this is an overrated quality). But I have seen him practically will the Rockets towards victory. He is a great player on the offensive glass, and he just doesn't seem to miss around the basket anymore. And, in a testament to practice which would impress even Yao, Landry has raised his sub-70% free throw shooting in college and his rookie season to 88% this season. Most importantly, he has been able to drastically increase his usage rate without any decrease in efficiency (this is related to the free-throw shooting). He has developed some good moves in the post, as well as a nice little turnaround jumper. The pick-and-roll with Landry and Brooks/Lowry has become something of a go-to play for the Rockets, even late in the game, and Landry is honestly the person I most trust with the ball at this point (turnover rates be damned). He accomplishes these numbers without an all-star level point guard like Nash or a floor-spacing 2-guard like Roy.

And, if Amare and Aldridge qualify as stars this year, then we should consider Landry for the title, as well.

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landry is a g

carl is a star for sure but will never get the respect he deserves, just like the rest of the rockets (at least for this season). His ability to finish around the basket, shoot jumpers, andnail clutch free throws in the final minutes of close games show he can definitely be our go to closer- at least for now.

by Ron E on Dec 6, 2009 5:36 PM CST reply actions  

Off Rebs

I don’t get to see every game, so I wouldn’t know for sure, but if a lot of Landry’s points come from rebounding and cleaning up from other’s shots, then would you really consider him a star? I think I picture him more as a hustle player who can square up and shoot the mid-range jumper. I think a lot fo the “star” title comes from someone who can be given the ball, and who can create a shot for themselves or for others whether it be at the end of the game or during the middle of it. Landry is a great asset and is a great player and I love watching him play, but I would hesitate to say he’s a star right now because he doesn’t necessarily create shots for himself or others. But the whole argument is subjective anyways, so that’s just my opinion.

On another note, what are the contracts like for Landry and Scola? I want to say we just signed Landry to a 3 yr deal and that Scola’s contract is up at the end of the year. If so, what are the odds that we don’t keep Scola because he asks for too much and because we have Landry locked up already?

by jroberts5 on Dec 6, 2009 6:53 PM CST reply actions  

comment

i think my first two sentences dont do Landry justice. He doesn’t just clean up the glass, he also has a great jumper and does have a few post moves, but like I said I don’t think you can give him the ball and just let him create. thats all

by jroberts5 on Dec 6, 2009 6:56 PM CST up reply actions  

Landry has the tools

to be an elite player.. i like his game very much.. no let ups..

jby the way.. i hate what ive seen in cable.. they televised game of NY. vs. NJ.. now ,wasted time slot..boring game (theres a lot more worth watching for, like our team)

by CONAIR on Dec 6, 2009 7:51 PM CST up reply actions  

Um, you must not have gotten the memo.

The Rockets will not be nationally televised this year unless they make the playoffs. That is because they were absolutely certain to be bad, boring, banal, blotchy, broken, and other undesirable words beginning with “B”.

by Xiane on Dec 6, 2009 8:45 PM CST up reply actions  

Completely disagree. Landry IS a guy you can give the ball and let him create his own shot. In fact, in the last game at Portland, most of the Rockets’ offensive strategy in the fourth quarter consisted of dumping the ball to Landry in the low post and letting him create a shot for himself or draw the defense enough to open up space for others. He has actually become a legitimate go-to scorer, and I’ve seen comments from the coaches (and Morey) that say that they believe he is unstoppable in 1-on-1 situations no matter the opponent, and that he needs to become more assertive and demand the ball. There is a reason why he is consistently in the game during 4th quarters up till the end now, regardless of who else is around him. His face up game is particularly lethal — he is much quicker than most opposing big men, but if they back off from him his midrange shot is almost automatic.

If you don’t believe me, go find any recent audio of Daryl Morey talking about Landry. You’ll find out that he says the exact same thing.

by xcomp on Dec 6, 2009 11:52 PM CST up reply actions  

but if a lot of Landry’s points come from rebounding and cleaning up from other’s shots, then would you really consider him a star? … I think a lot fo the "star" title comes from someone who can be given the ball, and who can create a shot for themselves or for others

Again, let me say that I think the “star” title is pretty much meaningless. But, there are players who contribute a lot more to winning basketball than others do. LeBron, Kobe, Wade, Chris Paul, Yao, Dwight Howard, etc. will all win you somewhere between 15 and 20 games basically by themselves.

If we’re just looking at Win Shares (and I like to use it just as a rough estimate for production), though, the line for who is and is not a “star” seems to be around 8 or 9 wins. Sometimes that’s lower (for instance, Joe Johnson is usually between a 6 and 7 win player), sometimes it’s higher, but that’s basically “all-star” quality.

Now, let’s say that we have a player who gets all of his points off of offensive rebounds. And let’s say he’s able to put up historic numbers on the offensive glass, grabbing between 15% and 20% of offensive rebounds (the record is Rodman’s ‘95 season, with 20.83%). And, just as a hypothetical, let’s say he’s basically Dwight Howard around the rim. Would that player be a “star?”

In my view, absolutely. He would be something utterly fantastic to have. No team could be built that would hit 100% of its shots, and so any player who can grab a lot of offensive rebounds and send them home is worth quite a bit. The team is going to miss, so you can be assured that he’ll produce in any given game.

Now, we see this kind of player in Dwight Howard. And we saw it on the Rockets thirty years ago with Moses Malone. Is Dwight a star? Definitely. Was Moses? Of course. A lot of Dwight’s value is tied to his defensive ability, but that wasn’t really true of Malone, who wasn’t a particularly good defender.

So, no, I don’t think you have to “create” to be a “star” in the NBA. You just have to be really, really good at something.

Of course, Landry isn’t anywhere close to that good on the offensive glass, but he is fantastically efficient and has the ability to create his own shot in the low post.

On another note, what are the contracts like for Landry and Scola? I want to say we just signed Landry to a 3 yr deal and that Scola’s contract is up at the end of the year. If so, what are the odds that we don’t keep Scola because he asks for too much and because we have Landry locked up already?

Both Landry and Scola have expiring deals. I think it’s way too early to say what the Rockets do in the free agency period, simply because we all expect there to be a trade between now and the deadline, so it’s difficult to say what the Rockets will do with Scola and Landry this summer. I wouldn’t be surprised if they had to choose between one or the other. That would be a difficult situation, given how well Scola and Landry compliment one another and the roles each plays on the team.

by Only_A_Lad on Dec 6, 2009 10:08 PM CST up reply actions  

Landry is signed through next season

I think you’re thinking of Lowry, who’s contract is up after this season.

by jack_ on Dec 7, 2009 1:25 AM CST up reply actions  

you are correct

the Rockets have a team option available next year for Landry.

by Only_A_Lad on Dec 7, 2009 12:43 PM CST up reply actions  

Don't jinx Carl ;)

But yes – he’s a top flight PF. I think he could get heavy minutes at this point (30-40) and do just as well. I also wonder a bit about his turnover numbers, and this is pure speculation, but I think earlier in the year he wasn’t getting whistles, and would just get hacked, and lose the ball. Now he’s getting a respectable whistle – I’m going to look at TOs from here on and see.

But yeah, how many guys are scoring as efficiently around the basket as he is, at his position? Not many.

And my God, last night there would be a ton of big blazers around the rim, Carl in the middle, and he’d come out with the ball, and put up a shot. Just amazing. Too bad about Roy’s Circus Shot Part II. He’s a bonafide star, but those last second killers are getting old.

by Xiane on Dec 6, 2009 7:04 PM CST reply actions  

heh

by now, I’m no longer concerned about jinxing him (though if he comes out weak against the Cavs I might feel otherwise). I think it’s for real, not just some early-season enthusiasm from Carl.

Besides, he’s just too beastly to be jinxed.

And my God, last night there would be a ton of big blazers around the rim, Carl in the middle, and he’d come out with the ball, and put up a shot. Just amazing.

I think this might be a good definition for what people mean by “star.” When a player can legitimately say to the defender, “Just try and stop me!” he’s a star. Is Carl there yet on a consistent basis? I don’t know, but when he’s underneath the basket I have a pretty good feeling about the ball going in the hole.

by Only_A_Lad on Dec 6, 2009 10:18 PM CST up reply actions  

By the way, the funniest remarks I read on Blazer's Edge (since the tone was pretty unfunny) last night were (roughly)

“I’d take Lowry in a cage match with Aldridge.”

reply:

“I’d take any Rocket in a cage match with any Blazer.”

by Xiane on Dec 6, 2009 7:38 PM CST reply actions  

Thanks for picking out that gem..

I think Blazer fans are some of the best out there and they appreciate the hustle with which this undermanned Rocket team plays against their studded roster..

by Kari on Dec 6, 2009 9:15 PM CST reply actions  

Landry is bonafide

I’m Knicks fan (yeah, yeah, I know — you’re all so sorry for me…), but I have liked Landry going back to last year. I was a little surprised at how the Rockets let Von Wafer walk so easily prior to the start of this season, but seeing how Landry has stepped-up puts that situation into perspective. Morey is one of the better GM’s working today.

by chin8tao on Dec 7, 2009 1:57 AM CST reply actions  

Stoudamire sucks (relatively) compared to earlier.

Landry is awesome though. He has hustle and he’s reliable.

by VBG on Dec 7, 2009 4:31 AM CST reply actions  

everytime landry gets ahold of the ball...

I have a good feeling that it’ll be a basket. If that doesn’t make him a star, I don’t know what will,

by suzaku on Dec 7, 2009 6:30 AM CST reply actions  

i’ve had a carl landry custom shirt since he got his tooth knocked out by Boozer two playoffs ago.

by ainsworth on Dec 7, 2009 7:41 AM CST reply actions   1 recs

It is hard when you are a "Star"

I agree Landry is getting “Star” stats right now. But he has to prove he can still get it once everyone considers him a “Star”. As soon as everyone knows you are good, they will concentrate their defense on you and you will have a hard time getting your “star” stats. Unless he is really a “star”.

by spitzserfun on Dec 7, 2009 8:54 AM CST reply actions  

I'm starting to believe the Rockets are going to try and trade Scola.

Not sure why, but I think he’s worth a lot in a sign and trade next year.

www.TheDreamShake.com Co-Founder and Writer

by UofTOrange on Dec 8, 2009 9:13 AM CST reply actions  

well,

like I’ve said before, the problem with handing the starting PF spot to Landry is his defensive rebounding issues. The per-game (and per-minute, for that matter) numbers don’t really show it, but Scola has been a monster on the defensive glass, and I’m pretty sure what remains of the Rockets’ defense would collapse in his absence. Even after Yao returns, Scola’s rebounding ability is a key part of the team defense.

Of course, maybe that would be remedied in a trade, but that would probably mean Carl stays on the bench.

Of the two, however, I agree that Scola is a lot more likely to be traded.

by Only_A_Lad on Dec 8, 2009 9:38 AM CST up reply actions  

I don't disagree with you in any way

His rebounding is clearly sub par at this point and I really don’t know why.

Scola has been incredible, and other teams know that. That’s why I think a deal could be made involving him. Clearly it would have to really help the Rockets because there is no reason not to have two great PFs if you can.

www.TheDreamShake.com Co-Founder and Writer

by UofTOrange on Dec 9, 2009 12:28 PM CST up reply actions  

To be honest with yall, I like landry over scola.

I’m being greedy but i rather have both on the team, than having one against us.but i would pay to see scola and landry go one on one.

He’s our sixth man… than can seemlessly transition to a starter role. (i’m surprised he doesnt start more often) I like the fact we have someone we can go to in our bench.

by Ivan A on Dec 8, 2009 2:43 PM CST reply actions  

Landry’s definitely getting some attention for sixth man of the year. Not too shabby, yes?

by DribbleHooper on Dec 8, 2009 9:53 PM CST reply actions  

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