Tracy McGrady and Yao Ming are not the same - I can't take it anymore
I feel like I need to comment on the feeling that some of you have that we are unnecessary harsh on Tracy McGrady, yet let Yao Ming get a pass. It's untrue, but let's take some time to pretend that it is true. Why would that be possible?
Here's who Tracy McGrady was when he came to the Rockets:
2002-03 Orlando 32.1 PPG on 45.7% shooting, 6.5 RPG, 5.5 APG, and 1.7 SPG
2003-04 Orlando 28 PPG on 41.7% shooting, 6.0 RPG, 5.5 APG, and 1.4 SPG
Here's what he's given the Rockets the last two years:
2007-08 Houston 21.6 PPG on 41.9% shooting, 5.1 RPG, 5.9 APG, and 1.0 SPG
2008-09 Houston 15.6 PPG on 38.8% shooting, 4.4 RPG, 5.0 APG, and 1.2 SPG
Salary Numbers:
| 2002-03 | Orlando Magic | NBA | $12,072,500 |
| 2003-04 | Orlando Magic | NBA | $13,279,500 |
| 2004-05 | Houston Rockets | NBA | $14,487,000 |
| 2005-06 | Houston Rockets | NBA | $15,694,250 |
| 2006-07 | Houston Rockets | NBA | $16,901,500 |
| 2007-08 | Houston Rockets | NBA |
$19,014,187 |
2008-09 Houston Rockets NBA $21,126,874
2009-10 Houston Rockets NBA $23,239,561
His last year in Orlando has an asterisk because he shut it down. He was a 45% shooter on average for every year in his career before that. He was upset about the team and what he was promised. Was it a rational anger? Not really. Orlando had no idea that Grant Hill wasn't going to be healthy. They absolutely believed that Tim Duncan was going to sign with them and he didn't. But regardless of the situation, it was the first time I remember seeing McGrady be the type of guy that sulks. At the time, my opinion was that it was a one time deal where he legitimately felt like the team lied to him. It was the Rockets gain, and the Magic's loss. And honestly, I'd make that trade 100 times out of 100 even given what I know now. The Rockets got rid of Kelvin Cato, Steve Francis and Cuttino Mobley all three of who are no longer in the league and were never going to work so it is and was a no brain-er.
Let's just let those above numbers sit for a few minutes and we'll get back to them.
Here are Yao Ming's stats the last 4 years:
2005-06 Houston 22.3 PPG on 15 shots at 51.9% shooting, 10.2 RPG, 1.6 BPG
2006-07 Houston 25.0 PPG on 16 shots at 51.6% shooting, 9.4 RPG, 2.0 BPG
2007-08 Houston 22.0 PPG on 15 shots at 50.7% shooting, 10.8 RPG, 2.0 BPG
2008-09 Houston 19.7 PPG on 12 shots at 54.7 shooting, 9.4 RPG, 1.7 BPG
Salary Numbers:
| 2004-05 | Houston Rockets | NBA | $4,436,880 |
| 2005-06 | Houston Rockets | NBA | $5,594,906 |
| 2006-07 | Houston Rockets | NBA | $12,455,000 |
| 2007-08 | Houston Rockets | NBA | $13,762,775 |
2008-09 Houston Rockets NBA $15,070,550
2009-10 Houston Rockets NBA $16,378,325
What do those tell us about Yao? First, let's get this out of the way, if you ever start a sentence with "Yao's going to get you 20 and 10, but" then you should stop, because whatever you say after that is going to be silly and ill informed and most said while screaming something stupid on talk radio. ANY player that gives you 20 and 10 and doesn't shoot 25 times in a game (Yao's high is 17.1) is a really good player. That's plain, it's simple, you really can't argue it and still have credibility. Yao's 20 points on only 12 shots a game is phenomenal. It's extremely efficient and means he does more with less. He's going to the line less this year than any year since he was 24 and is shooting the best percentage of his career at 86.9%. That is pretty impressive as well. It also tells us that he is having a down year by his standards. However, how can he be at fault in this? He's shooting the best percentage since 2004-05 and has the best free throw percentage of his career. Why is he not getting the ball more? Why isn't he getting 17 shots a game like he did just 2 years ago? Why isn't he getting the ball every time down the court and having the offense run through him?
Okay, so you've just seen the numbers for both players, and while they are different time frames in the first two years, they illustrate what we need without skewing the issue one way or another. Can anyone really look at those numbers and not see why Tracy would get the brunt of the criticism? Yao is 1 year younger than McGrady is and his drop off this year was by 2.3 points (10.5%), 1.4 rebounds (13%) and .3 BPG and he's coming off a foot injury that he effectively had half the time he needed to heal but people have said he worked so hard that he was able to cut that time down without doing harm to himself over the long run. McGrady's drop off is much more dramatic. This year alone it's by 6 points (28%), .7 rebounds (16%) and .9 assists (14%). That's not even taking into account the scoring drop off he's had since his last year in Orlando, which is epic. And to be completely fair, he shoots the ball much less now, 10.5 times less per game to be exact. Yes he is coming off of two surgeries, but neither of them were major. And I know major surgery, I've had 4 on my knees with 3 minor ones tossed on top. I know recovery time. I don't know his body, and I'm not him, but I do know that it takes hard work to get back and I know that everything I've heard previous to the last 4 weeks is that he didn't put that work in.
So, if we ignore the fact that's Yao's drop off isn't really that big and Tracy's drop off in scoring is almost 30% from last year, what do we have that separates them?
1. By all accounts, none of them first hand to be up front, Tracy McGrady is not that well liked by his teammates, Yao on the other hand seems to be beloved and respected. It seems that players respect who Tracy was and still defer to him but that he still acts like he's the same player he was long ago and that he can get by without putting in the work. I think they really want to like him as he's a pretty cool guy off the court, but that it gets harder and harder as he holds their livelihoods in his hands.
2. Most of that is due to work ethic. McGrady is often the last person in and the first to leave, and has been since he's been here. That's been documented repeatedly, so often that I'm not even going to give a link.
3. Yao is the hardest working player I've ever heard about. He's the first guy to the stadium and the last to leave. He's everything you could possibly want. Every time Hakeem Olajuwon has been available to him, Yao has taken advantage of every second. Every coaching session that is available, he is said to take. He plays basketball year round due to his national team commitments, yet never complains, ever.
4. I have absolutely no backing for this, but to me, Yao is much more clutch when given the chance, he succeeds at the end. McGrady has failed far too many times in my eyes in clutch situations and has been given them many more times than Yao has because Tracy has the ball in his hands at the end and calls his own number far too often.
5. From a positional standpoint, it is not arguable that Yao, with his current statistics, is one of the top 3 centers in the league. I'd say that the three, in my order are 1. Yao, 2. Dwight Howard and 3. Al Jefferson. Those are the three guys, that's it. You could argue that Howard has surpassed him, but until he beats Yao head to head, I don't agree. But those are the only two centers in the league that you would even think about trading him straight up for, right? So given that, doesn't it mean that he's outperforming, not under-performing?
6. From a positional standpoint, here are the shooting guards I would take over McGrady right now:
Kobe
Wade
Roy
Ginobli
Johnson
Mayo
Martin
Redd
Hamilton
Iguodala
Ronnie Brewer
Ben Gordon
Eric Gordon - Based on age
You could even argue:
Ray Allen, Jamal Crawford, Josh Smith, Vince Carter
And those are just the guys off the top of my head. Am I forgetting someone?
7. Tracy McGrady makes $21,126,874 of the $75,468,359 of salary the Rockets pay players this year. Also known as 28% of the total team salary. Yao makes $15,070,550 or 20% of the total team salary. That 8% is a huge difference. Especially when you take production into account. That's Carl Landry and Luis Scola to put it in perspective.
8. McGrady touches the ball pretty much every time he's down the court. Just by the nature of the beast, he's the guy that has the ball in his hands (and since Rafer Alston is our point guard) so he's the guy that the Rockets, and us as fans, rely on to make decisions for the team. With every 3 pointer before Yao and Scola get down court, I die a little inside. With every open lane that he passes up to shoot a 19 foot jumper, a kitten dies.
9. Tracy's effort is hit or miss, and it's hard to take. Yao's is non-stop every night. He's not always successful, but his success, just like Dream's before him is partially in the hands of others. There is no one other than McGrady and Artest on this team that can throw an entry pass. Yao is constantly battling for position, getting it and then being screwed over by poor passing. Next time you watch a game, think about all of the passes he gets and realize how many times he has to fight for position a second and even a third time in a possession because the player with the ball doesn't make the available pass.
10. I expect specific things out of Tracy and Yao. For Tracy that is to score and to get his teammates involved when he is double teamed or not on. From Yao that is 20 points and 10 rebounds night in and night out. You can clearly make a case that McGrady is not doing his job and that given his limitations that he should be getting teammates more involved. Instead, his assists have gone down, not up. With Yao, he's doing exactly what I expect. He's not going above and beyond like the last two years, but a lot of that is due to lack of shot attempts.
11. Tracy gets the superstar calls still. It's rare that he gets fouled without a call being made. At no point in Yao's career has he gotten those calls. In fact, he has doesn't get the calls that 2nd year players get. I know that it is due to him being hard to referee, but the league doesn't even try to get it right. I've never once thought that McGrady didn't get a call for a reason other than the ref just missed it. Think about it, there have been plenty of times that Tracy got a call and you thought to yourself "Well, that was ticky tacky, but we'll take it". Yao should go to the line 10 more times on average per game and he still wouldn't be getting half of the calls that are actually fouls. He is required to do 3X as much work as Dwight Howard is (partially that's because players are scared of DHo though) but he whines less than any player in the league.
12. Yao's heart is unquestionable. If you think he's soft then I have no respect for your basketball opinion. He tries too hard and works to hard to be soft. Soft isn't getting hammered, and still scoring yet not getting a call. Soft isn't having your "shot blocked" because guys are able to hit his forearm without a call yet still running down court without bitching. He's not soft just because he doesn't punch players for being dirty, that's just common sense on his part. He's getting 98% of his ability out on a given night. I don't say 100% because I think he can and will be a 25 and 12 guy over the next two seasons. Yes, he turns the ball over, but you would too if you other players were allowed to slap at your hands the way they are allowed to slap on him. And I've already mentioned it, but he deals with passing that would have knocked 3-5 points a game off of The Dream's scoring average. Not every player is Shaq or Hakeem, his hands are hellaciously strong, but they aren't infallible. And he's the most graceful player in the history of the game that is taller than 7'2. People want him to be Hakeem Olajuwon, and while it's fun to reminisce about this site's namesake, Hakeem is one of the top 4 greatest centers of all time (3rd all time in my opinion) and it's not a fair comparison. Yao doesn't yell at referees, but to mistake that for a lack of passion is just ignorant. There is no player on this team that cares or tries harder than Yao. I'd venture to say there has never been a player in the history of the Rockets franchise that cared or tried harder over their entire career.
This blog will criticize any and all players and praise any and all players when we feel it is warranted. We are far from group think as writers. Dave would punch you if you seriously tried to argue against Robert Horry going into the Hall of Fame. Tom would not be too happy with the idea that Steve Novak sucks. And I believe that Yao is the most under appreciated player in Rockets history (with apologies to Kenny Smith). Yao's game has flaws. He turns the ball over a good amount though I've clearly stated why I believe that happens. He gets 1 turnover a game that is completely on him. I think that's a pretty solid number. He's not fast (though I would argue that he is not slow), but can you name me another player over 7'2 that is fast? Heck, name me 10 7 footers that average more than 15 points a game over their career that you would consider quick. That's really all you can pin on him. He's plenty aggressive, that part of his game is clearly there if you look over the last 2 years. You can't punk Yao without him going at you hard (you know, if someone gets him the ball) the next play down. I really don't see how anyone can put this season on Yao, and I mean put it on him at all. Can you imagine if Shaq shot free throws like Yao? He would have touched the ball 60 times a game, yet Yao gets 12 shots a game this season to go with 6 free throws. And it's not through lack of fighting through fronts or getting position. His positioning this year has been better in my opinion than any year he's been in the league. He fights and wins about 80% of the time (yes I made that stat up) and doesn't get the ball fast enough.
In the end, I don't think Tracy McGrady is the reason the Rockets are "only" 10 games over .500, something this fan would have killed for in the Steve Francis days. (Though I do caveat the McGrady point with this point: If he was the same guy he was the first year he was a Rocket this team would be have lost about 15 less games. And if he had that same drive he had then and with the ability he has now I think they would have 5-7 less losses.) I know health has been a huge factor for the team overall. Shane Battier has missed multiple games and is clearly not the player he used to be as his foot still heals. Ron Artest's ankle is killing his game. He's not able to push off, so he's reverting to the same mistakes McGrady is, but he at least seems like he cares night in and night out. Yao has slowly been getting back to 100%, even now I'd say he's flat out tired from all of the off season recovery and the pressure of the Olympics in his home country. Rafer Alston has suffered from groin problems, and from the way his drives have gone, it looks like he's still not all the way back. Brent Barry is clearly old and keeps getting nagging injuries. This team even got hit by the flu for a few days. And there are still 30 games left. None of that excuses the lack of care by a few of the guys, or at least the lack of trying at all on the defensive end. This offense is actually better overall in my opinion than it was last year at this point, but that's most of what you hear about. The defense is worse by a thousand miles. As Tom pointed out the other day, no one is playing team defense. Not even Battier is where he should be more than 75% of the time.
All of that is scary, and sorry but it will always start with the guy that makes the most money. He infamously said it's all his fault, and while that's not true, he's the guy that get's paid to take the criticism. And while I refuse to unfairly criticize him, he will get it as long as he refuses to put effort on the court and refuses to make the right decision at least 90% of the time. When you are healthy and have the skills Tracy McGrady has, you can make bad decisions and get out of them by sheer athletic ability. When you aren't health and your skills have started to regress like McGrady's have, you have to make the right choice as close to 100% of the time as possible. Frankly, I think it is a focus issue with him, because he is the best non-point guard passer that I've ever followed. The lack of assists given the lower shot total is truly puzzling. Just getting the ball to Yao right when he gets deep position should be good for 2-3 extra assists a game. He's absolutely shooting less threes as well, and that is good. But too often he just stands around at the top of the arc and doesn't really run the offense the way he should. Even with all that, I think the criticism put on him has been fair and just. Maybe not tactful, but still fair and just. And that brings me to what I think the real problem is...
Rick Adelman is doing a poor coaching job. I don't know if it's that he decided to just let it ride until all the guys were healthy or what. I really hope that's not the case, because that is irresponsible. But I'm going to leave this to another post on another day. I know he's extremely capable and has the skills to be a top 5 coach in the league, and has been in that number many times in his career. I'm still holding out hope that he has the right plan in mind and that things are just going to fall together.
And just as a side note, I know the problem is not our GM or our team scouting as both of those are the best in the league in my opinion. Daryl Morey has put together a fantastic team, the deepest of any Rockets team I've ever watched. He's done everything you could ask of him except get height, and that's just picking nits because it really hasn't been available yet. No the product isnt' flowing together, but the pieces are there, it's on the coach to use them.
I hope that unlike Billy Madison's speech where what he said was one of the most insanely idiotic things the principal had ever heard. At no point in his rambling, incoherent response was he even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. And everyone in the room was dumber for having listened to it. That I would be at least awarded some points for this. I will say that I had no real plan and just word vomitted a lot of that out. So hopefully it makes some sense.
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34 comments
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Comments
He's baaack
I like Ronnie Brewer, not sure if I’d take him over Mac. As for players you missed, most likely due to your views on which position they play compared to mine:
Danny Granger (you have him as a small forward, I’m sure)
Paul Pierce (same thing)
Jason Richardson?
Kevin Durant
Melo
Richard Jefferson?
Those are just a few. excellent piece.
"I think girls are probably just better shooters." - Steve Novak
by Tom Martin on Feb 10, 2009 10:19 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
And yes, I would take all of those except Jefferson
But they are all true small forwards, no matter where PJ played KD. But I would trade this entire team for KD, so that’s not saying much
by UofTOrange on Feb 11, 2009 9:10 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He'd be the only one I'd think about
But, ya, probably Yao included, based on the injury and age issue
by UofTOrange on Feb 11, 2009 2:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
somebody's Longhorn homerism is showing...
by Only_A_Lad on Feb 11, 2009 4:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Or
Somebody’s recognition of a truly elite player is showing…
KD could put up 28 a game next year. All of his numbers have shot up.
"I think girls are probably just better shooters." - Steve Novak
by Tom Martin on Feb 11, 2009 6:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree,
he’s going to be a fantastic player. But you’d trade the entire team for him?
by Only_A_Lad on Feb 11, 2009 7:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Really meant anyone on the team
Not actually 11 for 1
by UofTOrange on Feb 11, 2009 8:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Okay
that’s much more reasonable.
However, I’d still say that Yao is going to be more valuable over the next few years. While Durant is going to be great, it’s much easier to find a great SF than it is to find a great center. I’d trade anybody else for Durant, but not Yao.
by Only_A_Lad on Feb 11, 2009 10:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
On nights that his shot is falling
Brewer is amazing.
Otherwise, he’s just a bit less amazing.
If you need a ‘shot creator’ like TMac though, Brewer isn’t your guy
by UtesFan89 on Feb 11, 2009 2:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
he still has so much potential
though it would never happen, sometimes i wish he would think, “ive got no chance at winning a scoring title. but i bet i can lead the league in assists”
kinda like john smoltz going from a dominant starter to a dominant closer.
by fiddycent on Feb 10, 2009 11:02 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
gooooooood point
he’s a great passer. i don’t see it happening, but it would be nice,
"I think girls are probably just better shooters." - Steve Novak
by Tom Martin on Feb 10, 2009 11:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yao clearly gets a pass
whether it’s here or ClutchFans. I can’t believe how I didn’t see a single thread criticizing Yao’s poor play against the Bucks. What’s his excuse? He’s 100% healthy. This is his team. I don’t care how much they’re getting paid. The offense revolves around Yao, and if he doesn’t produce, we are fucked. All you need to do to validate this is to simply look at our record when he just scores 20 or more points. We’re 19-2 when we scores at least 20. That means just 21 out of 52 games where he gets 20 or more points. That means we’re 12-19 when he doesn’t. Not good. We live and die by him, and therefore it’s not unreasonable at all to call him out when he’s sulking.
Sure, you can go ahead and give me your subjective list of players that are better than a McGrady, who’s clearly not himself yet. I still feel by April, he will be recovered enough where he can play to the level he played last year against the Jazz. I would definitely take that Tracy over most players on your list.
And Yao is soft. That’s who he is. He plays a soft game. He’s a finesse center. Always has been and always will. I mean, Dikembe Mutombo is currently bitching at him because he’s 7’6" and is drawing freaking charges out there instead of blocking shots. If that’s not soft, I don’t know what is. He’s a great FT shooter, but if your game consists of falling away all the time for jumpers, you’re not going to get many calls. He’s on and off with his aggressiveness.
by goingforthecorner on Feb 10, 2009 11:23 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
The first time I see Yao sulk he will be called out
It hasn’t happened though. You’ve seen him pissed at himself but you have never seen him sulk.
And as I said, Yao does not control the offense because Adelman, Alston and McGrady refuse to run it through him. If you recall, Hakeem demanded to be traded under some similar circumstances and even faked an injury. Then Rudy T came onboard and changed the offense so that The Dream touched it every single possession. JVG did that and Yao had the best year of his career. Rick Adelman changed it to that and the Rockets won 12 in a row before he went down.
The minute you see Yao touch the time every time down the court you will see the Rockets win. It’s as plain and simple as that.
Are you serious? Calling someone soft for giving up their body is just nuts. Drawing charges and taking body blows is the opposite of being soft. Is Shane Battier soft
He’s not on and off with his aggressiveness either. It’s called taking the correct shot. Sometimes that’s a fade away. There once was a guy really good at that, I can’t remember what that move was called…
by UofTOrange on Feb 11, 2009 8:32 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Hey man, you always think your views out
And I appreciate it. I think we just simply have different definitions here. If you want to write a fan post that is complete I’ll guarantee you front page for it and we can hash out your entire opinion here.
Lee
by UofTOrange on Feb 11, 2009 9:12 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
How about
We get Yao more than 12 shots a game. Maybe that’s why he doesn’t get 20+ points game in and game out.
"I think girls are probably just better shooters." - Steve Novak
by Tom Martin on Feb 11, 2009 2:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
A Truly Superb Job of Writing This Epic Post!
You sold me on your point of view completely.
I just sorry that this top notch piece had to be about such an unpleasant topic.
Sometimes things just have to be dealt with.
Blazer's Edge Ambassador to The Dream Shake Blog
by LaMarvelous on Feb 11, 2009 12:21 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
And Yao is soft. That’s who he is. He plays a soft game. He’s a finesse center. Always has been and always will. I mean, Dikembe Mutombo is currently bitching at him because he’s 7’6" and is drawing freaking charges out there instead of blocking shots. If that’s not soft, I don’t know what is. He’s a great FT shooter, but if your game consists of falling away all the time for jumpers, you’re not going to get many calls. He’s on and off with his aggressiveness.
Hakeem was a finesse center, and he loved shooting the fadeaway. Was he soft?
by Xiang on Feb 11, 2009 6:19 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
That was later on in Dream's career
when he focused more on his shooting game. He wasn’t always like that. Besides, any comparison with Yao to Hakeem is blasphemy.
by goingforthecorner on Feb 11, 2009 10:43 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Dream definitely not soft
he definitely became more finesse with his offensive games. He became more of a jumpshooter, but he still went inside a lot if it was possible, using his great footwork. On defense, he was never soft like Yao. He was dominating the paint, not flopping and hoping for a call.
by goingforthecorner on Feb 11, 2009 10:45 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That misses my point entirely
NEITHER of them are soft
by UofTOrange on Feb 11, 2009 2:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
In fact, since you mentioned the word “soft” for Yao, how often does your too-good-to-be-critcized McGrady take it to the hole instead of settling for jump shots and 3 pointers? Especially given that he will get the call due to his (ex)superstar status.
by Xiang on Feb 11, 2009 6:27 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
And your logic for arguing is really bad.
Did you just ignore the fact that a player has been a 20/10 guy consistently, shoots a high FG %, busts his ass every night just to get inside position, gets slapped with stupid fouls yet doesn’t lose his head, is one of the few centers that shoots FTs tremendously well(hack-a-shaq/ben/whatever will never be a problem) and gets close to 2 blocks(yes,2 blocks despite being soft) and 2 assists per night, JUST to pick on said player because you think said player is “soft” solely due to the fact that he takes a few charges and is skilled at shooting the fadeaway? Using the same analogy, you might as well call Shaq in his prime “soft” because he wore yellow.
by Xiang on Feb 11, 2009 6:44 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Here's my biggest problem with calling Yao soft
Soft implies you shy away from contact, it does not imply finesse. As has been said, Hakeem was a finesse player, not a power player. Yao hasn’t shied away from contact since his second year in the league and that was just him adjusting to the US game. He takes it directly at people. I just can’t see how anyone that see him yell at Kaman, “You can’t f-in stop me” is soft
by UofTOrange on Feb 11, 2009 8:25 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The "you can't fucking stop me" shot was a fall away jumper
If he makes them, that’s fine. But I would still rather have him punish his defender and get to the line more.
by goingforthecorner on Feb 11, 2009 2:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Zach Randolph can get you 20/10 too
it’s not just about overall production in a season. No one’s ever questioned his talent and abilities. “Soft” is a description for his game. Calling someone soft doesn’t mean I’m saying he’s a bad player. Soft is used to describe Pao Gasol a lot, but he’s still a great talent.
He can get dominated by shorter, stronger guys. He gets blocked a lot. He tries to flop for charges when he should just be going for blocks and deflections. He’s a mediocre rebounder. He can be turnover prone. These are all reasons that support his game being soft.
by goingforthecorner on Feb 11, 2009 10:50 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
is Zach Randolph the best comparison
Randolph… a max contract player… a hell of a tough cover (he destroyed the Rockets last time). The only reason Yao is more valuable than Randolph is because Randolph is a major head case. He’s not soft.
The 20/10 club is rare. Right now there are only 4 players in the entire league with a 20/10 (D-Ho, Al Jefferson, Tim Duncan and the aforementioned Mr. Randolph). Yao would be in that club easily but for two things: (a) no one can get him a correct post entry pass, so he only averages 13 shots a game, and (b) Luis Scola is a rebounding machine, so he’s stealing those from Yao.
So, while the “double double” stat is total bullshit, the “20/10” club is quite an accurate barometer of an elite player.
by grungedave on Feb 11, 2009 3:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
My point was
Randolph is not the kind of player you want on the team. Cancer isn’t the right word I guess, but he stops the ball and puts up stupid shots. It was just one play, but an infamous play indeed. It’s on youtube with him doing some stupid crap when he was on the Knicks. Not exactly a team player. I’m not surprised he’s putting up good numbers once again on a bad team.
Randolph by no means should be considered an elite player, so the “player A can get you 20 and 10!” doesn’t mean much to me.
Didn’t Yao get 25 and 10 in the Jazz series 2 years ago? Anyone watching that series though would tell you that Yao did not play that well. Bunch of turnovers, got his shot blocked a few times because of his predictability, could not get rebounds from Boozer or Okur, and could not guard anyone on the Jazz. He did not play great at all, but he got 25 and 10!
by goingforthecorner on Feb 11, 2009 4:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
sample size
Yeah, a 7 game sample size is really going to accurately reflect a player’s ability……..
by grungedave on Feb 11, 2009 5:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Playoff sample size > regular season sample size
isn’t that when the games really matter? Isn’t that when Yao is expected to play his best? So far Yao hasn’t really come up that big. While it’s just 7 games, that series still proved a lot about him.
by goingforthecorner on Feb 11, 2009 7:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The Jazz are the worst matchup in the league for Yao
And he STILL got 25 and 10. You’re right, it shows a lot, he’s still capable of great numbers even when he’s not on
by UofTOrange on Feb 11, 2009 8:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Efficiency
First off, it’s always good when a player gets 20 and 10. You’re right though, just because someone gets 20 and 10, doesn’t mean he’s elite – it just makes him good. You mention Randolph getting 20 and 10. This is true but he does it while averaging 46.5% fg and 77.3 ft%. He also plays no defense whatsoever, averaging .7 steals and .3 blocks for his career. Even with all those flaws, Randolph STILL has value. The Clippers and Knicks both won more games when he played for them this year.
Also, even if you still think Yao is soft, he’s helping this team more than any other player. He’s getting 13 attempts a game man. The entire offense isn’t Yao if he only averages 13 attempts a game.
by Worthy J. on Feb 11, 2009 8:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well
Ask any opposing fan if they think Yao plays soft. They’ll give you a list of instances in which they thought that their center was fouled as Yao plunged his shoulder into him.
AND, if Yao tries to be too gritty and over-hustles (if there is such a thing), he risks injury. While we want him to play hard and not be soft, he needs to be careful as well.
"I think girls are probably just better shooters." - Steve Novak
by Tom Martin on Feb 11, 2009 6:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well yeah
but you could say that about every big man.
by goingforthecorner on Feb 11, 2009 7:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

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