"What am I going to do with 50 subscriptions to Vogue?"
by grungedave on Feb 18, 2009 9:29 AM CST
in Random Commentary
84 comments
Tracy McGrady may be done for the season...
at least according to STEPHEN A. SMITH.
Which means this may be my last opportunity to use this photo!
Tracy is apparently to undergo microfracture surgery. Otherwise known as "good-bye professional basketball career surgery" unless your name is Amare Stoudemire. Ask Penny Hardaway (the guy who is the reason McGrady wears #1 to begin with). Ask Jamal Mashburn. Ask Kenyon Martin. Ask Chris Webber. Hell, look at Greg Oden right now.
The only players to have any post-microfracture success in the NBA are Amare Stoudemire and Jason Kidd. And it's not like Kidd was ever relying on his jumping ability to succeed. Amare was 22 when he had the procedure done. Tracy is a long, long way from being 22. Unless we are talking about millions of dollars he is going to count against our cap next year... a year he probably won't be able to play. At all.
A result of Tracy's announcement? (1) Tracy won't be traded this year; (2) Vince Carter won't be traded for; (3) Von Wafer is going to be playing a hell of a lot more.
If the news is true, I feel really bad for T-Mac. Because it's unlikely he'll ever suit up for the Rockets again. His chances of re-signing with us for the 2011 season are definitely non-existent now.
Ewing Theory, ftw!
(The Rockets will make the second round of the playoffs! Book it!)
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i have this funny feeling
that we’re gonna finally get out of the 1st round of the playoffs this year and tmac will not be playing, that has to suck (for him)
PINOY Rockets FAN!
Sorry for your loss. Seriously.
This might be the saddest news a Jazz fan could hear.
lol. Get the fishin’ poles ready bitches!
We bleed True Blue.
www.truebluejazz.com
Rapist?
Pretty sure he plays for the Lakers. And FYI Karl is retired.
We bleed True Blue.
www.truebluejazz.com
You are both correct
However, he doesn’t play here anymroe. So he is not technically on “our team”. That is what I was clarifying.
We bleed True Blue.
www.truebluejazz.com
I'd be be worried about Phoenix not being able to move Stoudemire
because they might very well overtake the Jazz.
LOL you think we're going to miss the playoffs?
You probably thought the same thing last year when Yao went down.
by goingforthecorner on Feb 18, 2009 2:33 PM CST up reply actions
If I'm not mistaken
number 32 is most definitely retired by the Jazz. The rapist is beloved by the Utah faithful. He might not be on you team, but he’s certainly a big part of the franchise.
this post
proves why Jazz fans are dumb..
He “Technically” disowned a player who has played for them for 17 freakin years!
and got them some fame
Jazz fan.. you will never see us disowning HAKEEM .. never.. !
This makes me wonder:
What would the Rockets look like right now had T-Mac shut it down last February? There would (probably) be no streak, but McGrady might be healthy now. And maybe they’d have gotten lucky in the lottery.
That really depends
For the first 12 games it was all Yao all the time. Then Tracy stepped up. If Yao doesn’t go down too? Is that the hypothetical? Because I say it still happens, or close to it
Well, I was hypothesizing that
Yao went down, and then T-Mac shut it down when it became clear (although we were all wrong about this) that the Rockets had no hope of making the playoffs.
T-Mac kiss your career goodbye
No one wants an injured player besides the aforementioned Kidd and Amare. The only good news is that the Rockets play the same or better this season without him on the court.
We could get out of the 1st round without him
but the only people that would be celebrating that would be Tracy’s haters.
Reality is T-Mac’s inability to get to 75%+ healthy will cost us a chance to reach the Finals. Just getting to the 2nd round wasn’t supposed to be our goal this year.
by goingforthecorner on Feb 18, 2009 11:11 AM CST reply actions
Lower your expectations
I think the Rockets goal should be to get out of the first round and THEN focus on the Finals.
Baby steps guys….baby steps.
We bleed True Blue.
www.truebluejazz.com
ha ha
What’s even funnier is that you’re making fun of taking advice from the team that has displaced you the last two years. It really is funny Dave, and I am actually lol-ing
We bleed True Blue.
www.truebluejazz.com
kiss the rings, bitch.
Someone post a picture of our TWO championship rings so the Utah fans see what they are never going to get. k thx bai.
The past oh the past
Dwelling still? Those Championship teams were great teams. Amazing teams actually. But guess what? The guys suiting up for you right now are losers. Ron Artest included.
We bleed True Blue.
www.truebluejazz.com
Standings? We're talking about standings?
We’re actually talking post season here, and the Rockets have done NOTHING. The Rockets will remain losers until they prove us wrong.
We bleed True Blue.
www.truebluejazz.com
If the Rockets are playoff losers, what does that make the Jazz?
ALL the playoffs we are referencing here are history. Some more recent than others, but I figure historical rings count more than recent series wins. Since its all, you know, history.
Unbelievable
Is there no one in McGrady’s life that freaking understands what microfracture surgery IS? I didn’t think McGrady’s knee injury was anything that would ever suggest microfracture as a therapy.
"Your knee lacks its natural cushioning cartilage, usually through injury, sometimes genetics+injury (John Elway played a whole career without cartilage in his knee). So, what we’re going to do is drill little holes in your bone (the microfracture) and the congealed blood/goo that comes out of those holes will cushion and lubricate your joint a little by forming a sort of new cartilage. The time period for recovery ranges from about 6 months to never Sound risky and sort of scary? Well, it is. Sign here Mr McGrady. "
and yet...
Why do I keep getting the feeling that the only words that would make T-Mac happy were to find a doctor that would say “it looks like you need microfracture surgery”?
McGrady’s own account of things suggests “diagnosis shopping” – people who go around looking for a specific diagnosis can be questioned without anyone playing doctor.
Come on, it didn’t sound like he was looking for someone to tell him to get surgery to end the season? It sounded that way, and that’s exactly what he did. Despite several doctors apparently NOT telling him what he wanted to hear.
Doesn’t this sound like a bad case of Tracy not being 22 anymore? Of having the toll of an NBA career pushing him to change his game, and his preparation, and him being unwilling to accept the verdict of time? Instead of working like a fiend to perfect an unstoppable turnaround, or fade away, like Jordan, or even Kobe – he’s getting cut – so he can be what he was “before”.
Before what? His last birthday? The great players apparently play with pain that most of us can’t imagine, and they change to stay effective. McGrady is evidently not going to go that route, at least not yet.
Maybe the surgery works. If we get one or two good years, and it could happen, before the new “cartilage” breaks down, we should sell high.
not quite.
There’s a difference between playing “internet x” (where “x” is “doctor/lawyer/engineer”) and commenting. Trying to diagnose T-Mac is playing internet doctor.
Dave can play internet lawyer, but that’s because he’s a real one.
We all are playing “internet something” to an extent. We are pro players, coaches, doctors, trainers, agents, whatever. But we do have brains, we can analyze the info we have and draw conclusions. Knowledge isn’t confined to guilds anymore (or not as much).
Give the conclusions due weight, according to their source. (ie random weirdos on the internet) The idea we shouldn’t state a (at least somewhat) reasoned opinion based on the info we have is a bit silly.
And hey, I’m a JD and a paid analyst. I look at info on all sorts of things that aren’t what I do, and give my reasoned opinion based on available information. Obviously someone with inside information could see things quite differently.
agreed, we all play internet GM here all the time
the issue is access to privileged info. It’s one of the reasons I hate “proposing” trades – we have no way of knowing how teams are really valuing their players.
I don’t have a problem with forming opinions outside of our areas of expertise and expressing them – lord knows that I do that all the time. But I think there are some areas that we don’t (and probably can’t) know – exactly what T-Mac’s MRI looks like, what that would mean, and exactly what his options are.
Saying “T-Mac is having a shit year” is fine. Saying “T-Mac seems injured” is right. Saying “T-Mac is having unnecessary surgery” is overstepping. If we get a doctor saying that, then we have evidence to suggest McGrady is doing so. But as long as it’s just a couple of interviews and blog posts, it seems unwarranted to say that.
Fair enough. A more considered way of stating my point would be:
Microfracture surgery appears to be a measure of last resort, and carries considerable risk that his career is now over. Was his knee really in the sort of shape that this is the only viable option for him? Based on limited information, I have doubts about it.
The sad conclusion honestly is: McGrady’s talent and durability are not commensurate. He looks to join players such as Bill Walton, Bernard King and Penny Hardaway in never reaching heights their early careers suggested.
less snarky response:
yeah, a lot of this is simply aging. But there’s a difference between just aging and playing with a great deal of physical pain. We all saw him being unable to jump. He’s played hurt before (last year comes to mind), and I believe him when he says he’s really injured here.
It’s the microfracture surgery that’s upset me, not him being hurt. Maybe it’s the only way, we obviously aren’t privvy to that info. But I look at the failure rate of the path he’s taken and wonder if there was no alternative. Especially given the suggestion that he selected this diagnosis.
None of us know what his pain is like, or his pain threshold. I live with a lot of pain, myself, and function pretty well, but that’s not bragging, it’s a more of a gift, sort of. If he can’t function at the level he wants, and doesn’t to accept a different sort of performance, I can accept that. There’s a tradition there, with Jim Brown and Barry Sanders, for example. But I think he COULD be like Jordan, if he learned the little turnaround, or fade away – and broke out the drive on occasion.
the only people I've heard suggesting that T-Mac "wanted"
to get microfracture surgery have been internet commenters. It’s certainly possible, but I really doubt that McGrady desires undergoing major surgery.
we obviously aren’t privvy to that info
Exactly.
But I think he COULD be like Jordan, if he learned the little turnaround, or fade away – and broke out the drive on occasion.
Well, he’s got the fade away (though I’d say a lot of his success this year has come from attempting to draw contact on the perimeter). As I’ve said before, he just hasn’t been able to drive to the basket in the same way he used to. His problem this year has not been in perimeter shooting (he’s actually having his second-best 3P% of his career), it’s been in driving to the basket. I’d like him to drive to the basket, too, but it’s clear that he just hasn’t been physically able to do that.
not that I trust the Comicle
But Feigen and Blinebury and Solomon have all stated that the Rockets’ team doctors can’t find anything wrong with McGrady but McGrady himself has decided to seek out second (and third and fourth) opinions…
Solomon even interviewed McGrady after Milwaukee’s failed dunk and McGrady told him it was all mental and not pain related.
that’s where I am drawing my “internet doctor” conclusions from
well, the "mental" supposition would make you an internet psychologist, too
but I don’t totally trust the Rockets’ doctors. Not after the past few seasons (maybe that’s internet doctoring, too, though).
T-Mac says he hopes to be back next year
I wonder if he even realizes he could be out all of next season if he gets micro. Plus we’re talking about T-Mac here. Not exactly tolerant when it comes to pain, along with questionable rehabbing efforts. I personally would rather him not undergo this surgery, but that’s just me.
by goingforthecorner on Feb 18, 2009 2:36 PM CST reply actions
Conspiracy Theory Alert!!!
What if McGrady actually wants to stay a Rocket? What if he’s just going through a hard time – the “mental” aspect of his blown dunk? What if he just wants some time off, and doesn’t want another player to lead Houston deep into the playoffs?
If you REALLY wanted to nix a trade, what would you do? I can’t think of a much better way than microfracture surgery.
The conspiracy may be partially confirmed if Tracy gets another opinion, and then really starts feeling better in the last couple weeks of the season.
Well, if nothing else
this whole episode shows us all that the Rockets are Yao’s team.
(I make no claims of having translated that correctly)
Houston is 33-52 in games McGrady has missed since 2004
more importantly, 13-6 this year.
Even last year
After the injury he averaged something around 28 ppg. Even having the 07-08 version would be better than this piece of shit…. I used to love the guy too.
"I'm just looking forward to something great happening in the city of Houston" - Tracy McGrady
Still waiting...
"I always keep a ball in the car. You never know." - The Dream #34
Yao's injury
*
"I'm just looking forward to something great happening in the city of Houston" - Tracy McGrady
Still waiting...
"I always keep a ball in the car. You never know." - The Dream #34
Baron
According to Hoopshype, Sporting News is reporting that we’re in talks to trade Mac for B-Diddy.
How much this would help, I question. He’s always injured, has an insane contract, and is scoring at a career low pace this season. He’d be 34 when his contract runs out.
Would you do it if it meant getting rid of Mac, even though his contract will be extremely valuable next season at the deadline?
"I'm just looking forward to something great happening in the city of Houston" - Tracy McGrady
Still waiting...
"I always keep a ball in the car. You never know." - The Dream #34
on that note
I’ve been chatting with the Sporting News guy who posted that all afternoon… neither of us thinks it is actually going to happen.
And at the risk of replying to myself because I hit post too early
His contract really isn’t that awful. It’s absolutely better than Vince Carter’s in my opinion.
And last year he played in all 82 games
True
But he did it in a contract year….
"I'm just looking forward to something great happening in the city of Houston" - Tracy McGrady
Still waiting...
"I always keep a ball in the car. You never know." - The Dream #34
Sleepy wake up:
"There should be a protocol, there should be a procedure where we have a chance to sit down and talk about the situation and not be announced in the press," Adelman said. "I don’t know why that happened, why he did that. Certainly, that is not the way things should be handled."
Everybody but Only_A_Lad can ignore this
I saw your comment on my post, and I thought they were way off, but I acted like a pussy and deleted the post anyway…
For one, I have defended the shit out of T-Mac since he’s been here. Last year, on Facebook, I wrote a shitload of notes of how much he meant to the team. But after he flat out quit on the team in Toronto, and many doctors told him he could play through the pain, yet he continued to seek out opinions so that he could find some that would agree with him, after he flip-flopped on how serious the injury was these past few weeks, I have a right to be angry.
I admit, the last sentence saying the good times haven’t been good enough was off, but does that mean you should call me a fake fan and tell me to leave the site, b/c of that? No.
Excuse me for letting emotions as a fan get in the way of my writing. Hasn’t happened to anybody else before I bet.
I don’t see why you have a problem with me, all I did was state my opinion. And if you disagreed with that last part, you could have asked me why I wrote that instead of telling me I’m not a fan.
And I bet I look like a big dumbass for not posting this on there, but that’s my fault… Anyway, I hope this clears up any problems you have with me..
"I'm just looking forward to something great happening in the city of Houston" - Tracy McGrady
Still waiting...
"I always keep a ball in the car. You never know." - The Dream #34
it's
classless to say “but how about those good times” and then post a picture of McGrady rolling around on the ground from injury. I get pissed off at players, too (Michael Bourn comes to mind). But there’s a difference between being angry that a player is failing and essentially calling a player a quitter when he’s injured. As I told you, McGrady played all of last season in pain. He could have shut it down in January or February. Instead, he decided to lead the team into the playoffs after everyone (many Rockets fans included) had written them off.
The anger at McGrady is misplaced, but acceptable. But (and this is where I thought you were being an ass) openly saying “good riddance” to the team’s franchise player.
I understand that sports fans, for whatever reason, tend to possess remarkably short memories. But less than a year ago, McGrady was a hero. He is the same man today that he was then – so what is it? Is he “She-Mac/Me-Mac/Knee-Mac” or is he Tracy McGrady? This has nothing to do with production – it only relates to fans calling him out for “heart.”
And I didn’t tell you to leave the site (it’s not my site, anyways.) I meant that the “omg u guis knee-mac is a pussy”-level commentary is what I expect over there, and I think that calling McGrady some sort of bum for being injured is on that level.
Understood
And again, I apologize for putting those undeserved comments in there. That was the irrational fan kicking in. I usually consider myself good about that, but this time I wasn’t and it’s definitely fair to call me out for that.
However, I do honestly think he quit in Toronto, though I recognize the pain he’s in. That loss, and his play in that loss, still lingered in my mind when I was writing that note and I let that get too much too my head.
I understood how good he was last season after he came back and after Yao went out. I wrote a note on why he should be the MVP for heavens sake. I never wrote them off either. Again, I have backed him to a great degree in the past, but this season has really gotten to me and I again want to apologize for that, but it’s human nature to be angry when things like this happen.
Though I’m not questioning the injury, it’s difficult for me to grasp why he keeps flip-flopping back and forth on his injury. I obviously don’t have the full details though.
I have vigorously defended him in the past… if only you could check the past notes on my Fbook. And I let this season get to me.
This isn’t trying to avoid blame, I admit that was a stupid, fucking irrational beyond reason note, and my main point was to say that the way he’s been playing this season doesn’t warrant him continuing to play and that I think it’s better for the team as of right now, not that I think he’s a shit player when not healthy. I should have emphasized that more instead of ranting about what I did instead.
And that’s my fault. But please, don’t question my fanhood because of that. So yeah, hopefully we’ve cleared up any differences… again. lol.
"I'm just looking forward to something great happening in the city of Houston" - Tracy McGrady
Still waiting...
"I always keep a ball in the car. You never know." - The Dream #34
HoopsHype is always full of shit.
72 comments hooray!
"I think girls are probably just better shooters." - Steve Novak
http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/57386/20090219/mcgrady_im_done_rockets_not_so_sure/
Morey still isn’t convinced TMac is seriously injured…
33-21 5th in West
28 Games Left
FEBRUARY(6) - Dallas, Charlotte, Portland, Cleveland, @ Chicago
MARCH(15) - @ Minnesota, Toronto, @ Utah, Phoenix, Memphis, @ Denver, LA Lakers, @ Charlotte, San Antonio, @ New Orleans, Detroit, Minnesota, @ San Antonio, @ Utah, LA Clippers
APRIL(8) - @ Phoenix, @ LA Lakers, Portland, Orlando, @ Sacramento, @ Golden State, New Orleans, @ Dallas
by Optical Delusion on Feb 19, 2009 8:58 AM CST reply actions
Nobody's sure
T-Mac’s reaction could have came out of frustration, or perhaps the results in NY suggested surgery. It would probably be the first, because everyone else has told him to play through the pain and that surgery is not required. They said the only way he can improve is by playing (which doesn’t really make sense).
His final test is in Chicago where he is now. I heard they have this special enhanced MRI machine on steroids over there.
If T-Mac changes his mind again and says he doesn’t need it, will the Rockets even allow him to return to the team? I’m not sure if the players would support that. They feel comforted that they don’t have to worry about the in-out of the lineup thing. If Tracy does come back, it would be wise that he comes off the bench and plays few minutes. Less than 20.
by goingforthecorner on Feb 19, 2009 9:07 AM CST up reply actions
It's up to you guys to give me my info
either ClutchFans has banned me for no fucking reason (again), or they have closed off the forums to contributing members. How pathetic is it that you HAVE to donate money just to get access and to be able to edit your own posts on a forum?
by goingforthecorner on Feb 19, 2009 9:08 AM CST reply actions
actually
I just registered. I think they opened up free registration again.
Still, you’re not missing much. If anything new crops up in the next few hours, I imagine ESPN or the Chronicle will have info.
besides
all ClutchFans has right now are “omg u guis KNEE-MAC is faikng 2 get out of traed!” threads.
Yeah I was reading it yesterday
it’s a total mess. T-Mac is basically Hitler on there.
by goingforthecorner on Feb 19, 2009 9:35 AM CST up reply actions
They interviewed Jason Friedman and Johnathan Feigen
neither said it’s likely we absorb any big contracts (Carter, B-Diddy, etc.)
We are interested in the future though. We hope we can take advantage of some cheap owners and buy some 1st and/or 2nd round draft picks, maybe by dangling Luther Head. We might make a Bobby Jackson type of trade to set us up for next year.
by goingforthecorner on Feb 19, 2009 10:11 AM CST reply actions
getting a 1st round draft pick would be great
especially if it comes from some stupid team. Stupid teams have high draft picks.
Not necessarily stupid teams either
some owners are in such trouble financially that they simply can’t afford to pay future 1st round draft picks, so they could literally give them away for some salary help. That’s why T-Mac’s expiring contract could be ridiculously valuable next season for our future.
by goingforthecorner on Feb 19, 2009 10:31 AM CST up reply actions
I've been refreshing this page on ESPN
Here’s the latest Rockets news as of 10am.
• The Houston Rockets have called a number of teams looking for a guard to replace Tracy McGrady. However, it sounds like they won’t make a major play and all talk about a Vince Carter or Baron Davis deal is dead.
It sounds as though they prefer to keep Ron Artest, and otherwise don’t have a lot of assets they’re willing to office. Their best chip at the moment seems to be Carl Landry.
It’s still unclear from my view if the Rockets just don’t want to trade McGrady this season, or if they’re desperate to get rid of him but no one’s biting. As for the VC, BDiddy talk, I think it was Morey and the Rockets killing the talks because of the contracts.
Perhaps the NJ game convinced us that we should keep Artest. The mods on ClutchFans with inside info have been saying for a while that he’s definitely going to be traded, and they would be shocked if he’s on the roster because he’s supposedly been a major headache in the locker room. They said they would reveal specific info about Artest after that deadline that’s sure to make him look bad, along with more bad info on T-Mac.
by goingforthecorner on Feb 19, 2009 10:30 AM CST reply actions
oooh, gossip!
seriously, though, I hate this Baron Davis rumor. Every time someone mentions this (or Vince Carter, for that matter) I keep getting visions of the post-1995 Rockets: all of their money committed to a few aging star players (Hakeem, Drex/Pippin, Barkley). Davis’ contract would kill the Rockets’ cap space for the next few years.
I think that a lot of what happens in these trade rumors is that one GM just floats an idea out there, somebody leaks it to the media, and then suddenly that team is “making a big push” for Player X.
That’s what I think happened with Davis and the Rockets (probably Carter, too). Neither has a good contract, nor are they the types of players Morey probably values. I don’t doubt that Morey might have suggested (or been offered) a trade for Davis or Carter, but I do doubt that it was seriously pursued.
Yeah
thankfully Morey isn’t Carrol Dawson and his mostly incompetent staff. No more Matt Maloney and Kelvin Cato and Maurice Taylor fat contracts! No more wasting draft picks on Bryce Drew, Bostjan Nachbar, and trading 3 for 1 in the Eddie Griffin deal. We have a GM that uses relevant statistics now to determine who fits, rather than name value and gut feelings.
by goingforthecorner on Feb 19, 2009 10:58 AM CST up reply actions
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