More reasons for us to pile on Tracy McGrady
by grungedave on Feb 27, 2009 2:25 PM CST
in Random Commentary
74 comments
Another McGrady-themed column on SI.com today.
Here's the money quote though:
"I haven't been the guy who's been fortunate enough to play with Shaq, to play with Tim Duncan. I always seem to have average teams,''
Not to put too fine a point on it, but F-U, Tracy!
Hey, assclown -- you know that really tall guy on your team? Yeah, the 7'6" guy from China. He's like really, really good and stuff. He's been on your team for FOUR-plus years and he's not holding you back. More likely, you've been the guy holding HIM back.
I think you're just bitter that the team is winning without you.
*oh, and someone please kindly tell Ian Thomsen that the Rockets had home-court advantage against Utah in each of the last TWO seasons. Not just last year.
edit: Looks like Thomsen got my e-mail and fixed his error about T-Mac only having home-court once...
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Hey, assclown — you know that really tall guy on your team? Yeah, the 7’6" guy from China. He’s like really, really good and stuff. He’s been on your team for FOUR-plus years and he’s not holding you back. More likely, you’ve been the guy holding HIM back.
Or, more likely, for years the Rockets didn’t have much other than Yao and McGrady. Tracy has always seemed to recognize how good of a player Yao is, and I doubt that his opinion of Yao has changed. But he’s exactly right. Up until this year, would you really say these Rockets teams have been truly great? They were great last season, but then Yao went down and that was that. He’s right in that he’s been stricken with a horribly streak of bad luck, whether in his own health, the health of his teammates, or the quality of his surrounding players (though one could argue that the money he’s paid hurts his team’s cap room, though that hasn’t stopped the Lakers, Celtics, or the Rockets this year). His point, I think, was that had Shaq been in Orlando when he was in Orlando, the team would be strong enough to win it all.
"You take me back in my Orlando days with Shaq? Come on, there are no questions.
We take these interviews – these off-hand comments and incomplete glimpses into people’s minds – too seriously.
by Only_A_Lad on Feb 27, 2009 2:54 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
and yet
You never heard Jordan bitch about his teammates in Chicago… he just won. Period.
No excuses.
by grungedave on Feb 27, 2009 3:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
and yet
you did hear Hakeem complain about his teammates in Houston (that was what that brief “trade me” thing was about, right?). He was a fucking scrub, too. Fucking loser.
by Only_A_Lad on Feb 27, 2009 3:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
besides
what do you expect him to say? He’s been repeatedly blamed for not getting anywhere in the playoffs, and I think he has a pretty good reason to be pissed about that. He’s telling the truth when he says he hasn’t been on the best teams.
by Only_A_Lad on Feb 27, 2009 3:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
maybe STFU
Why should Tracy be saying anything.
he should STFU and say “no comment” when asked about these topics.
Hakeem was booed mercilessly when he pulled that “my teammates suck” stunt, too.
by grungedave on Feb 27, 2009 3:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
because, as so many have found out,
when you don’t talk to the media, they’ll just write whatever they feel like writing.
And, like I said, I don’t think he really said anything that incendiary. His teammates did suck (except for Yao, who kept getting these freak injuries). The Rockets weren’t awful (they weren’t really awful between 1987 and 1994, either), they were just an alright team.
by Only_A_Lad on Feb 27, 2009 3:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't give a shit
That Hakeem made one comment like that at the end of his career. Fine. He made a mistake. We all realized that and called him out for acting like a bitch. That doesn’t condone T-mac calling out his teammates like that.
He does this every single year. After the 07 playoffs, when he proclaimed it was “on him”, as soon as we lost, he said it wasn’t on him. Granted it wasn’t, but that misses the point. The point is he continuously faults others. He’s always looking to place the blame on others. You can throughout his career and all along he’s done this over and over again. I’ve defended the shit out of him and he certainly brings it in the playoffs, but that never gives you a right to call out your teammates, especially when you have arguably the best center in the league on your side. He needs to stop whining like a little bitch.
"I'm just looking forward to something great happening in the city of Houston" - Tracy McGrady
Still waiting...
"I always keep a ball in the car. You never know." - The Dream #34
by DreKeem on Feb 27, 2009 5:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
not talking about the Toronto trade
talking about his trade demands in the early 90s. Between 1987 and 1993, the Rockets were craptastic in the playoffs because the team was essentially just Hakeem. He had a brief feud with ownership in 1992, and for a while it looked like he would be traded.
by Only_A_Lad on Feb 27, 2009 8:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
actually
that article is eerily similar to what’s going on these days (and what went on last year with Yao).
The Rockets not only were winning but also, suddenly, were fun to watch. “The fans really got involved,” says Chaney. “All that passing to the open man, the shooting, the action.” The fans got involved enough that it was no longer possible to dial through the radio spectrum without hearing calls for Olajuwon’s immediate trade. So he has been the problem all this time! " ‘Trade Akeem’ is all we heard," says Chaney with a laugh.
by Only_A_Lad on Feb 27, 2009 9:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
But their hope of winning a championship is doomed as long as McGrady is sidelined or ineffective. As constructed today, the Rockets lack the talent to overcome Kobe’s Lakers or the Spurs of Tim Duncan, Tony Parker and Manu Ginobili.
Yeah, it’s totally not like they only lost to the Spurs by two early in the season (w/o Manu) and then blew them out by 19 points in December with all three there. Without McGrady (Head got 21 points that game. WTF?). Keep writing off the Rockets, media…
by Only_A_Lad on Feb 27, 2009 3:03 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
well, to be fair, the rockets were making it pretty easy for the media to write them off, what with their horrendous record against division-worst teams. but since that embarrassment of a loss to milwaukee, and, sure, since mcgrady sidelined himself for the rest of the season – with and without rafer at point – the rockets at least resembled the team we all hoped they would be at the beginning of the season.
but you would think that after blowing out either the second or third best team in the league, the media’s lips would be all over the rockets’ collective ass. but it looks like we might have to wait another five or six days for that to happen. if (read: when) they beat the jazz in utah, they’ll start getting the respect they deserve.
and does anyone else think it’s kind of glorious that the rockets are finally going to win a playoff series with mcgrady on the bench?
by the grawlrus on Feb 27, 2009 3:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I just think it's sad.
I mean, he just has had shitty luck, and now – in the one season the Rockets have a third star, a collection of spectacular non-star talent, and Yao is healthy, he’s injured the whole year. Life’s a bitch.
The only reason anyone would think it’s “glorious” is if they have a memory that only goes back as far as July.
by Only_A_Lad on Feb 27, 2009 3:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
so, what you’re saying is, while we are divided on how enamored we are with tracy mcgrady, we can at least agree that the rockets are indeed going to win a playoff series without him?
perhaps “glorious”, as it were, was too hyperbolic a word choice, but “ironic”, to me, just wasn’t going to cut it.
by the grawlrus on Feb 27, 2009 3:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah
I have a better feeling about the McGrady-less Rockets than the Yao-less Rockets. Yao can’t be replaced. McGrady can be (that’s partly why the Artest trade was made).
It’s no lock that they’ll win a playoff series (nothing ever is in Houston sports). But I’d say their chances are a lot better this year. Should it happen, it will be painfully ironic. You can bet that Free Darko is going to have an epic post about, though, so maybe it all balances out.
But remember that the point is not to win a playoff series. It’s to win a championship. Their chances at doing so would be significantly greater with a healthy T-Mac, but I still think they’ve got a good chance. They just have to play like they did last night.
by Only_A_Lad on Feb 27, 2009 4:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Everything McGrady said was true
“It takes five” like his Adidas motto once said, and he’s never had a good enough five to get to the Finals. God forbid he tells the truth.
And LOL @ T-Mac “holding Yao back”! What a bunch of bull. More like Yao’s bad reflexes, poor defense against smaller guys, agility, his own injuries, along with his soft attitude holding himself back. Where was he last postseason to help McGrady? Oh that’s right, he was focusing on being healthy for the summer Olympics. The year before that? He was losing crucial rebounds in end-game situations and getting torched by Carlos Boozer.
I would’ve liked to see T-Mac play with Shaq in his prime. Hell, I would’ve liked to see McGrady play with Grant Hill in his prime. Timing and fortune is everything.
grungedave makes ClutchFans look objective and logical. You should be proud.
by goingforthecorner on Feb 27, 2009 4:26 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
all evidence to the contrary
When Yao went out in the playoffs the Rockets sunk.
so far, without Tracy the last two years… the Rockets have been a more efficient offense and 10x better on defense.
I do tend to speak in hyperbole, but I always have visual or empirical evidence to support my rants/raves. I’m not the one saying “Trade Yao… he’s slow!”
Yao busted his ass in rehab.
Tracy did the exact opposite last summer.
Also, go look back at the shot charts and the play-by-play from Game 7 in ’07. McGrady played phenomenal for the first 3 quarters. Then he disappeared. It quickly became his M.O. against Utah.
Furthermore, what’s so surprising about Yao playing awkward defense against smaller/quicker guards? He’s a fucking center – that’s not his job. That’s like asking Chris Paul why he can’t guard Dwight Howard more forcefully.
Yao has a soft attitude? Are you kidding me? Think for yourself and stop echoing the mainstream media’s viewpoint. Yao was soft as a rookie, yes, but he learned quickly and is no longer a pushover. T-Mac is the pushover. And has been for some time. We forgave Tracy because he was a singularly amazing player for many years… but he never got the job done when he had a chance.
So when T-Mac bitches about his fate in life, I refuse to let him wallow in self-pity.
by grungedave on Feb 27, 2009 4:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, yes, and yes.
Yao has a soft attitude? Are you kidding me? Think for yourself and stop echoing the mainstream media’s viewpoint. Yao was soft as a rookie, yes, but he learned quickly and is no longer a pushover. T-Mac is the pushover. And has been for some time. We forgave Tracy because he was a singularly amazing player for many years… but he never got the job done when he had a chance.
That pretty much sums up my opinion on Yao.
And GFTC, if there is anything you do not do while you are hurt AGAIN, it’s call out your teammates by calling them “average.” I don’t care how truthful he is, it’s something he CANNOT do as our so-called “leader.”
What a bunch of crap – “God forbid he tells the truth.” Yes! God Forbid, indeed!
"I think girls are probably just better shooters." - Steve Novak
by Tom Martin on Feb 27, 2009 4:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
And to add
It’s obvious that Dave and I won’t normally give Tracy the benefit of the doubt. But as far as obvious goes, it’s OBVIOUS that what he did here wasn’t in his best interest or in the franchise’s best interest. It was selfish. Ask Shane Battier that same question and you’ll get a Belichik-ish political answer, which is what we want. We don’t want to hear about stuff like this…especially in the middle of a 6 game win streak and our high point of the season thus far.
"I think girls are probably just better shooters." - Steve Novak
by Tom Martin on Feb 27, 2009 4:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Best interest of the franchise
unfortunately EVERYONE in the Rockets brass thought it was a good idea to let Tracy play, and let him know that he needs to play through the pain, thinking that’s all that was wrong with his knee. People say he has no heart, but McGrady decides to play despite the pain and missing cartilage. I would call that heart. Turns out it was the best interest of the franchise that the Rockets shut him down until he was 100%.
by goingforthecorner on Feb 27, 2009 6:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Right...
It WAS the best interest to sit him…the Rockets, on many occasions, told him to sit. Or at least recommended it.
"I think girls are probably just better shooters." - Steve Novak
by Tom Martin on Feb 27, 2009 6:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
And also, on many occasions
the Rockets and the doctors said the only way to make it better is if he plays through it. Simply resting it is not going to help. That’s what they said pretty much word for word. Just shows you how poorly the Rockets and the doctors handled this whole situation.
by goingforthecorner on Feb 27, 2009 8:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You're right on that note.
The docs did drop the ball. I just don’t think he should have been on the NBA court. He could have practiced on it and been mobile while on the shelf. He did it for 2 weeks, and then came right back when he shouldn’t have.
"I think girls are probably just better shooters." - Steve Novak
by Tom Martin on Feb 27, 2009 8:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If he wants to call out his teammates...
It wouldn’t be unappreciated to see them call him out. I’d like to see people talking about how much fun it is to play with guys who try hard every possession, who focus on defense, who don’t take idiotic shots just because they made a shot kinda like that once. Maybe I wouldn’t want to see that, because it might mess with chemistry, but T-Mac’s teammates have plenty to call him out on as well. For every San Antonio comeback, how many games did he lose by taking dumb threes and missing them?
by seanbergmanrules on Feb 27, 2009 5:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Tracy has never been the so-called "leader"
and he called his TEAMS average. Where was he wrong there? If your team can’t even get out of the first round, your team is AVERAGE. And he was talking about the 7 playoff teams he was on in the past. He wasn’t talking about this year’s team. They were all average, and some of them shouldn’t have even made the playoffs were it not for him.
by goingforthecorner on Feb 27, 2009 6:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Wrong.
You can’t tell me he was talking about his teams’ records. If the question was about players, he wouldn’t shift his answer to the record of the team. The question was about TALENT, and McGrady’s answer referred to how average the TALENT of his teams has been. Which, if you’re going to say “teams,” includes this year’s. It’s a slap in the face.
"I think girls are probably just better shooters." - Steve Novak
by Tom Martin on Feb 27, 2009 6:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Ok, I will say this, in the Van Gundy years with Tracy, I really thought those teams were largely devoid of talent, with a couple of exceptions. He’s not wrong – he’s just an ass.
But last year? No, that team had talent. It also had an injured Yao. This year? The team is stacked. Our second unit could pretty much handle the bulk of sub 500 NBA teams – I firmly believe this.
by Xiane on Feb 27, 2009 8:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
More statements without actual data
“so far, without Tracy the last two years… the Rockets have been a more efficient offense and 10x better on defense.”
Got any facts to back that up? It’s definitely the case this year because of his knee issues, but last year we were more efficient without him? That is simply not true. The Rockets were playing their best right before Yao went out, and T-Mac was playing in those games and had a big impact in them winning.
“Yao busted his ass in rehab.
Tracy did the exact opposite last summer.”
And where’s the proof of that? You don’t have any, and probably said that because everyone on ClutchFans did. He was unable to do his normal summer workout due to his injury and subsequent pain. I’m not going to question a guy’s rehab when I don’t know how he’s feeling and what exactly he was doing in the summer. You have no clue what he was doing either, but of course all you guys act like you do.
“Also, go look back at the shot charts and the play-by-play from Game 7 in ’07. McGrady played phenomenal for the first 3 quarters. Then he disappeared. It quickly became his M.O. against Utah.”
I don’t know… maybe fatigue had something to do with that? I got that idea since he said “I was too tired”. I’m not going to expect a guy to play 4 perfect quarters. You’re expecting perfection.
“Furthermore, what’s so surprising about Yao playing awkward defense against smaller/quicker guards? He’s a fucking center – that’s not his job. That’s like asking Chris Paul why he can’t guard Dwight Howard more forcefully.”
Since when was Carlos Boozer a guard? How about the big men that can shoot from deep like Okur and Murphy? Yao has no shot against them and is a liability in those situations.
“So when T-Mac bitches about his fate in life, I refuse to let him wallow in self-pity.”
He’s not asking for you to feel sorry for him. In fact, he said he doesn’t even care about the criticism.
by goingforthecorner on Feb 27, 2009 6:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well
The Statements:
1. Yes, there are facts to back it up, in terms of this year. I don’t feel the need to post them, because I’m sure you could find them by simply looking. I don’t think it goes back as far as 2 years, though.
2. The evidence is in the results. You don’t think Yao was in pain as well? Tracy has a lazy rep around the locker room and isn’t exactly known as the hardest worker on the team (I have an excellent source to support that, if you think I have no evidence), and the results of his rehab was that there were no results. He hardly progressed at all.
3. There’s no excuse. The great players play well in crunch time.
4. You’re expecting perfection.
5. Please go read his blog. Pleaseeee. You’re telling me he’s not wallowing in self-pity? Where’s Yao’s blog?
"I think girls are probably just better shooters." - Steve Novak
by Tom Martin on Feb 27, 2009 6:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
When Yao broke his foot, I distinctly remember the rehab videos of him doing rehab in pools. He basically made the best of a terrible situation. When Tracy complains of his knee, I distinctly remember someone posting an article of him partying all night during All-Star Break, you know, the time you should be recovering if you’re injured.
by SeeingStars on Feb 28, 2009 2:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Completely different scenarios
T-Mac was getting medical opinions at the time, and EVERY player gets off during the all-star break. Yao’s pool training was in the summer. Just because T-Mac’s training wasn’t on camera, doesn’t mean he didn’t do anything.
by goingforthecorner on Mar 1, 2009 1:38 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Okay...
Sorry for not stating the obvious, but I do in fact know that just because T-Mac’s rehab wasn’t on camera, that doesn’t mean he wasn’t doing it. The problem Tracy, or any person of notoriety, must face is perception is as good as reality. As a primary Kings fan, I’ve seen enough news to know Ron Artest is pretty positive member in the community. However, because of his past, that doesn’t mean I give him a pass when he mistreats animals.
If Tracy doesn’t want to be called out by his team, don’t do interviews slamming them.
If Tracy doesn’t want people questioning his injury, don’t be caught partying the midnight hours when you’re injured.
Jesus, if Tracy wants to be the man, don’t do a press conference saying it’s on you and follow it up with one where it’s not on you.
Also how is it relevant that Yao’s training was in summer. Didn’t the Rockets tell Tracy to begin the season when he was ready??
by SeeingStars on Mar 1, 2009 3:27 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well
grungedave makes ClutchFans look objective and logical. You should be proud.
You make Woody Allen look like an optimist.
"I think girls are probably just better shooters." - Steve Novak
by Tom Martin on Feb 27, 2009 4:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
you do know what a mismatch is do you?! you can’t expect yao guarding shaq and howard kind of centers every night. yao wasn murdering okur and boozer in the post in those games also.
if Tmac could stop taking stupid shots and not averge 20% in the field the n the rockets would probably get past the first round. if you look at his stats he is shooting 7-21,10-28 in the field while yao would be 10-15 bcoz 60% of the time its tmac who’s holding the ball even though he is shooting horrendously in the game
by guilan on Mar 1, 2009 9:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Michael Wilbon goes to bat for our boys on PTI
Officially back on the Rockets bandwagon. Not sure whether that’s a good or bad thing.
And he made a point (that I think is very cogent and is basically what I’m saying) in response to Kornheiser’s jabs at McGrady: when a team does this well without its “best player” (I’d say that Yao is the Rockets’ best player, and it has been that way since Yao’s second season, but Wilbon loves McGrady so whatever), it’s not so much a commentary on that player as it is upon the job that the coaching staff and front office has done in building and crafting the team. As much as McGrady’s injuries have hurt the Rockets this season, it’s a testament to Morey and Adelman (yes, Coach Sleepy deserves credit) that the Rockets are doing so well.
by Only_A_Lad on Feb 27, 2009 4:42 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I think...
there may be something to the theory that Adelman’s hands were tied so long as McGrady kept on giving him the ol’ in-out-in-out. Now that McGrady is gone, Adelman’s migraine has subsided and he’s more pro-active in coaching on a game-to-game basis. The last 3 games are evidence of this.
by grungedave on Feb 27, 2009 4:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Makes sense.
But it also has something, I think, to do with Adelman just figuring out his rotations as time goes on.
by Only_A_Lad on Feb 27, 2009 4:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
it certainly helps
When the 12 active players are willing to run your offense, it makes it easier to be a coach.
by grungedave on Feb 27, 2009 4:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly.
Losing T-Mac, in that sense, “helped,” because Adelman was able to narrow down the 1000s of options he was forced to use. And as Only_A_Lad said, over time, he has come to know this roster better and can make decisions with more confidence.
"I think girls are probably just better shooters." - Steve Novak
by Tom Martin on Feb 27, 2009 4:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It helps even more
that Battier has returned to 100% health, and we have Artest to completely replace McGrady’s scoring, and he’s a better defender. If this was last season and we didn’t have Artest, we wouldn’t be as fortunate.
by goingforthecorner on Feb 27, 2009 6:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Fuck you, you selfish heartless and bitchy drama queen
My memory of the Tracy McGrady’s (I don’t even wanna call him T-Mac now.) past few seasons is like this:
1. He folded every time he played against Kobe, Lebron and Wade. It seemed to me he even didn’t have the courage to look eye to eye with them, not mentioning challenge. He is a fucking coward in front of the best SG and SF in this league.
2. He hurt the team much much more than the team hurt his career. He’s fucking chemistry cancer to the team. Everytime he went out, Rockets played like a team both defensively and offensively, and everytime he’s in, he acted like a “leader”, wanted other people to yield to him, and then shot the pullup three pointers or even disappeared during cluch times, except the only one spark that he got 13 points in 45 seconds against Spurs.
3. He’s a fucking loser when he tries to find all kinds of excuses to justify his inabillity to enter the second round in playoffs. In my opinion, trying to find excuses for one’s failure already makes that person a loser, no matter what. Dave is right. MJ never bitched about his teammates, although he only had one star, Scottie Pippen, around him. He just played hard day in and day out, beat his opponents and won.
Besides, unlike most guys on this blog, I never think Tracy McGrady is a super star. In my mind, there is only one super star in this league. It was MJ in the last decade, and is Kobe in this decade. For the next decade, I don’t know, but definitely not Lebron.
by Pegasus_BMW on Feb 27, 2009 7:53 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Well
I’d say McGrady was quite a superstar in Orlando. The guy scored 30+ points per game. And LeBron is definitely a superstar. If “superstar” status, in your view, is restricted to one player, then I agree with your choices. But remember that MJ’s first few seasons, in the 1980s, were magnificent without a championship. LeBron will rule the 20teens, as he is still very young and has plenty of time to win 6 championships like Michael. It won’t happen, but there is time.
"I think girls are probably just better shooters." - Steve Novak
by Tom Martin on Feb 27, 2009 8:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, my super star is restricted to one player.
And, my standard is based on rings and one-on-one abilities.
by Pegasus_BMW on Feb 27, 2009 8:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
And
You’re vastly underrating that Bulls’ supporting cast if you think Pippen and Jordan were the only reasons that team ever won. They were 80% of it, but you need that 20% to be good if you want to win a championship. Their 20% was not just good, but great.
"I think girls are probably just better shooters." - Steve Novak
by Tom Martin on Feb 27, 2009 8:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I never say the Bulls supporting staff weren't important.
They had Rodman, Kukoc, Kerr and etc. These were all very solid players, like Scola and Battier. In this sense, I totally agree with what you said.
by Pegasus_BMW on Feb 27, 2009 8:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You contradict yourself repeatedly
which one is it? Do you think he’s a superstar or not? If you never thought he was a superstar, why the hell are you comparing him to Michael Jordan of all people, and why is it a concern that he folds against LeBron, Wade, and Kobe (which isn’t even true LOL).
by goingforthecorner on Feb 27, 2009 8:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
First, in my memory he folded. It may not be true.
Second, Tracy is NOT a super star. I compared him to MJ and Kobe to just want to show what real super star does. Tracy claims himself as a super star, and in my opinion, he’s actually NOT.
by Pegasus_BMW on Feb 27, 2009 8:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That's just a stupid thing to say.
I agree he should have STFU. Isn’t he done being a distraction, yet?
That’s playing the “what if?” game. We can just reply McGrady by saying “Well, maybe, but the Rockets would have gotten out of the first round with <insert $20M superstar here> instead of you!”
by Chuck DeBruce on Feb 27, 2009 7:58 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
My answer to the what if question is
Tracy McGrady still wouldn’t win a championship, given Shaq and/or Duncun as his teammate. It doesn’t just take stars to win championships, but also determination and heart from the whole team. Look at LA Lakers in the 2003-2004 season. They had Kobe, Shaq, Malone and Payton, which looked like an all-star team, but they still lost.
Besides, Shaq is not as a gentleman as Yao. If Tracy bitched about his teammates, Shaq would surely call him out, and kick his ass out of the team. The reason it’s him not Shaq out this time is that he is not Kobe, and he’s thousands of miles away from being Kobe.
by Pegasus_BMW on Feb 27, 2009 8:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Probably not
considering Shaq and T-Mac are great friends. I think it would work pretty well. T-Mac is a great passer and one of the more unselfish stars in the game. We know he’s more than willing to defer to Yao, so of course he would defer to Shaq, a beast in his prime.
by goingforthecorner on Feb 27, 2009 8:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
heart ain't shit
if you don’t have the talent. McGrady’s teams have rarely had the talent to really do well. I’d say it’s really only been this year and last that the Rockets, as a whole, had the opportunity to get to the Finals with their players. Last year, Yao got injured. This year, McGrady got injured. Poor luck.
Look at LA Lakers in the 2003-2004 season. They had Kobe, Shaq, Malone and Payton, which looked like an all-star team, but they still lost.
Shit happens.
by Only_A_Lad on Feb 27, 2009 9:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Okay
tired of a few things being said here:
1) McGrady’s defense, despite GD’s description of it as “matador-style,” has consistently been pretty good throughout his career. BR’s defensive metrics aren’t fantastic, but they’ve come a long way. And McGrady has, since he’s been in Houston, had a pretty damn fine D-Rating. There’s a reason why JVG continued, throughout this season, to call T-Mac the third-best guard in the NBA. His defense this year was his worst in a while, but I think he’s got a pretty good excuse for that.
2) I’d like to re-emphasize that we’re taking an awfully lot of inference from a single sentence in a single interview. Has there ever been another time when McGrady gave us the impression he didn’t appreciate Yao’s greatness? Because their relationship always seemed pretty good to me.
I think that what he’s saying is that (again) he’s been on some fairly mediocre teams throughout his career. That doesn’t mean that he thinks Yao is bad, it just means that the teams, on balance, haven’t been top-notch.
3) It’s pretty fucking short-memoried to simply forget McGrady’s efforts last year. He played through knee and shoulder injuries last season, leading the Rockets into the playoffs after they had been written off.
It is one thing to say, “McGrady sucked this year.” That’s a rational and acceptable statement. “McGrady has always been a team cancer and an asswipe” is fucking stupid.
by Only_A_Lad on Feb 27, 2009 8:52 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Fine. I know you like to defend him.
But we are all here to support Rockets, so you can have your opinion, and I can surely reserve mine.
by Pegasus_BMW on Feb 27, 2009 9:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
it's not that I'm particularly partial to defending him
or even that I’m a fan of him personally. But he’s contributed a hell of a lot to the Rockets (which I am a fan of), and that should be recognized.
What’s more, I don’t like bad arguments. And I see a lot of bad arguments being used to justify bashing the guy.
Criticize him for what he’s done wrong – he didn’t rehab properly over the summer, he’s been an increasingly inefficient scorer over the past two seasons, and he may (depending upon how completely he was quoted, and what exactly he meant) have stepped over a line here. But he has been – by and large – a great player for the Rockets.
by Only_A_Lad on Feb 27, 2009 9:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I also want to be objective.
No player complains when he first joins a team, and I agree he played well in the beginning years. But after years of disappointment in the playoff, don’t you think it’s fair for him to lay all the blames on his teammates, no matter Orlando or Rockets? He just never bothers to look for problems on himself. That’s what pissed me off.
by Pegasus_BMW on Feb 27, 2009 9:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
he's criticized himself plenty in the past
but, when he’s asked these questions about the playoffs, inevitably they’re just pointed questions about “If you’re so great, why can’t you win a seven game series?”
But I think if you look at this, you can see that this hasn’t been his fault. He wasn’t surrounded with the best/healthiest talent in Toronto or Orlando. When he came to Houston, the franchise wasn’t in the best shape. Yao and McGrady were pretty much all the Rockets had in 2005. 2007 was the year they were best prepared for the playoffs, but it just didn’t happen. In 2008, he didn’t have Yao.
But look at his numbers in the playoffs across his career. He hasn’t played poorly, and he generally outperforms his regular season. At some point, McGrady’s teammates have to be healthy and contribute.
And, of course, the irony of this season will be that his teammates will do so, but he’ll be wearing a suit.
Again, he’s played exceptionally well in the playoffs, especially when you consider that he’s facing the best teams in the NBA. I don’t think anybody can rationally say that somehow his postseason failures thus far have been mostly his fault. What’s more important, though, is I don’t think anyone can rationally say that the Rockets’ postseason failures during his tenure here have been his fault.
by Only_A_Lad on Feb 27, 2009 9:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry, I haven't seen anything he criticized himself.
although I agree most of what you said is true. Show me some examples of his self-criticism.
Besides, when he knows his team is “average” and he can’t carry the team on his back in the playoff , don’t say “it’s on me”, which did nothing good but disappointing fans. It’s always easier said than done.
by Pegasus_BMW on Feb 27, 2009 10:11 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Well,
I can’t give you any specific examples, but his post-game interviews after losses always seemed to include the typical “I need to step up my game, and we all need to play harder etc.” format. His criticism generally seemed to be at an appropriate level. Satisfied me, anyways.
by Only_A_Lad on Feb 27, 2009 10:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
that said
he displayed a remarkable ability for deflection after the Toronto loss this year. And it should be noted that I don’t require athletes to beat themselves up over losses, either.
by Only_A_Lad on Feb 27, 2009 10:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
that is fair
T-Mac usually runs his mouth on off days…
it’s like he has the muscle memory not to say anything right after a game, but when SAS calls him out of the blue, Tracy forgets they aren’t really friends and dumps on his team for being “average” or needing “help” or “it’s all on me” (even though a JVG system was never about one player).
Now, though, he’s injured. He should STFU until training camp or when he’s 100% healthy. Not a work until then unless it is to say that he’s working harder at rehab than he’s ever worked on anything in his life and it’s hard but he knows he messed up last time and is avoiding the same pitfalls… etc. etc.
by grungedave on Feb 27, 2009 10:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
we all have our vices
McGrady’s just happen to be long naps and saying dumb things.
by Only_A_Lad on Feb 27, 2009 10:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
simple
I loved the 2004-2007 McGrady. He played hard. He played smart… and under JVG, he even attempted to play D (but he really only played lock-down D if he faced Kobe or LeBron. ’tis true.)
Once the Rockets got to the 4th Q in Game 7 against Utah in May ’07, something happened. T-Mac disappeared and all we have left is Tracy… a whiny little bitch who has yet to take responsibility for anything.
Did he have good moments last year? Sure, but he steadfastly refused to buy into Adelman’s offensive system until January – after he was injured and watched the team play inspired basketball in his absence. That’s why Tracy was getting MVP consideration in February and March last year… he was finally being a leader and a team player. But then the 4th Q of Game 2 happened… and he pussed out again. At which point I lost my ability to believe T-Mac would ever be the leader of this team ever again.
He could have busted his ass in rehab. He didn’t. He admittedly didn’t even lift weights until January of this year. Yao, meanwhile, finished an 8 month rehab in less than 6 months and played great for China on basically one foot. He finished his rehab and was 100% by traning camp. Tracy….? Yeah, not so much.
That’s why I refuse to let Tracy wallow in self-pity. A lot of this is his own doing.
by grungedave on Feb 27, 2009 10:31 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
There's a reason
He didn’t. He admittedly didn’t even lift weights until January of this year.
He had surgery on his shoulder last summer and was not allowed to lift weights at that time. His trainer said so himself.
by goingforthecorner on Feb 27, 2009 11:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
sorry...
He had the surgery in June.
I don’t know any shoulder surgery that would have prevented him from doing lower-body work starting in late July/early August (hell, that’s what his knee rehab required). Then by October, he should have begun light lifting to strengthen his shoulder.
To say he couldn’t lift any weights for 6 months is ridiculous.
by grungedave on Feb 28, 2009 8:27 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Shoulder still isn't 100%, even now
Whatever surgical procedure he had obviously wasn’t good enough. There was a possibility he would have to have surgery again this summer, but I heard it’s not going to happen now.
by goingforthecorner on Mar 1, 2009 1:40 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Kudos for u
well said brah! well said!
by rocketballer on Mar 1, 2009 4:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Only_A_Lad
is right. Tracy does say stupid things sometimes. And he did great things for us during his stay here. I was honestly very impressed with how he did from 06 to 08 (particularly in the playoffs) considering that it seemed like his physical talent dropped off after the terrible 05-06 season of back spasms.
Yes, he sucked this season. Obviously the injury situation wasn’t dealt with properly. It was also peculiar when Tracy appeared to be shopping for doctor’s opinions. But I’m a Rockets fan and he was a big part of the team for a long time, so I’m inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt. I believe that he really did try this year and genuinely wanted to contribute but was simply unable due to his injuries. The surgery may have been a desperate last resort.
I don’t blame him for our postseason woes, either. He may not have been perfect, but neither was anyone else. He just gets a lot more grief because of his superstar status and the fact that he hasn’t been out of the first round his entire career, which is bizarre. But I really think he played pretty close to his potential, and I’m fully satisfied with that.
I think some of his stupid remarks come from his frustration about the postseason, which is understandable. Not an excuse—it was still wrong. I feel sorry for him, and I think it would be hard not to have a little self-pity in his position. But that’s wrong, too, and I will say that many NBA players seem to have a much better attitude than he does. Probably why so many fans turn against him.
by Neopergoss on Feb 28, 2009 12:16 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
uh yeah... big picture people
To do my best Tommy from Quinzee impression:
“Let’s just move on. The Rockets are now better off without Tracy. NO ONE DENIES THIS!”
by grungedave on Feb 28, 2009 8:35 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
you forgot
to call him a “dahkie” and insist that Brent Barry is the “haaaaht and soul of the Rawckets.”
Actually, KSK did have a pretty good impression of a typical Houston sports fan last summer (though I’d say their evaluation of the number of Cowboys fans in Houston is wildly innacurate. Fuck the Cowboys).
Adam Clanton: Sorry Bobby Earl, but again, we’re talking about the Texans. Let’s try the phones again. Sorry folks, we just don’t seem to be screening very well today. Let’s go to Bobby Billy Ray. Bobby Billy Ray, what do you say?
Bobby Billy Ray: It is TIME to trade Tracy McGrady! What has that jackass ever won for Clutch Citay???
by Only_A_Lad on Feb 28, 2009 10:20 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
just chiming in...
this has probably been stated by these other long comments i’ve yet to read but whatever
What Tracy is saying feels ill-timed. I get that he wants to displace all these attributed failures elsewhere, but he’s just not in a situation, IMHO, that grants him the right to say such things whether they’re true or not.
So YES, we can pile on him for that reason alone.
*goes to blametracy.com
by misterterrific on Mar 1, 2009 7:00 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Ok whatever!
Well he has had a great cast so far without the exception of Orlando and i’ll give him that .
but he had his choice to go play with any team when he was a free agent and he choose
the big money contract in Orlando………..translate………stop blaming others for your own mistakes that you made! you should have taken less money and went to Duncanville or
Shaqtown California or wherever.
by rocketballer on Mar 1, 2009 3:59 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Great Players & Coaches!
Great players work with what they have, just like great coaches!
that’s what make you great!
Hey T-mac ,you can’t even win the “Allstar MVP” with the starters helping you to win it in your own damn arena with Houston fans watching! you helplessly give it to LeBron.
Kobe & Shaq couldn’t even help you get it and they really tried!
by rocketballer on Mar 1, 2009 4:20 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
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