Clarification on Contact Underneath the Basket
by hardgay on Apr 24, 2009 12:09 AM CDT
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Due to the large volume of Blazer fans complaining about how Yao gets away with contact on Brandon Roy's drives, I found this excerpt pertaining to fouls underneath the basket from a larger transcript about NBA officiating (interviewing the director of officials) that can be found here.
Here is the relevant paragraph about how defenders in the restricted area can avoid committing a foul:
"Even if he is in the Restricted Area, a Secondary Defender will not be called for a blocking foul if contact is made while he is alighting vertically in an attempt to block the shot, or if the drive starts inside the lower defensive box.
Offensive fouls can also be whistled, even if contact is made with a Secondary Defender inside the Restricted Area, if the offensive player leads with an unnatural knee or foot."
Analysis: Since Yao Ming is not chasing after Roy on the perimeter we can safely assume he is the secondary defender. Lets say Roy drives inside and jumps into Yao who is standing inside the circle, and Yao jumps with his arms straight up to contest the shot. BAM, contact and Roy hits the ground. According to the rules that is not a foul on Yao. If you think about it closely, if being in the circle was an automatic foul for big men trying to contest shots, centers would be fouling out by halftime. Now I'm not going to say Yao always goes straight up (I've seen occasions where his arms did bend down), but he does go up straight most of the time (unlike his first few seasons where he rarely did).
Visual Aids:
Hayes: The things I do for t-e-a-m...
Correct call: No foul.
Yao: Gudamn I'm gun feel dat in de morning.
Correct call: Offensive foul.
Joel: Oh crap! I fell too early!
Correct call: Offensive foul. Just kidding, that's a flop.
Application: Worry not Blazer fans, this rule applies (rejoice!) to your team as well. As long as Oden learns to keep his arms straight up (the replay showed his arms were not straight up on the play where Brooks fouled him out), he will be called the same way Yao is. Well, I can't give you any guarantees as long as Adolf Crawford is an NBA official, but I hope this clarified some of the officiating misunderstandings we've all had.
Conclusion: Before Rockets and Blazer fans alike complain about Yao/Oden calls, watch closely if they go straight up or not before making judgement.
No cursing in title. No pirated material, such as links to online game streams. Do not cut/paste entire sections of content from other websites. Thanks.
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I'm not complaining about this series in particular,
but that is one of the least consistently officiated rules in the NBA. I have oft wondered what the specific rule is because I can’t find any pattern to the calls. I couldn’t imagine that a foul should be called when a player had established position, but I know I’ve seen it happen.
I hate NBA officiating. Grrrrr.
Thanks for posting.
Everybody was a baby once, Arthur. Oh, sure, maybe not today, or even yesterday. But once. Babies, chum: tiny, dimpled, fleshy mirrors of our us-ness, that we parents hurl into the future, like leathery footballs of hope. And you've got to get a good spiral on that baby, or evil will make an interception.
i know what u mean
these calls are way too tough for human beings to make without assistance from instant replays. complaints about officials would probably reduce by half if Stern would only approve the use of electronic replays for all calls.
Thanks for clarification
But the part you quoted says nothing about jumping. If Yao jumps instead of standing still with his arms vertically up in the restricted area, it is a foul.
That stop and go by Roy is straight sick. I'm calling him "The Flu" from now on. - Wendell Maxey
my understanding
is that as long as Yao jumps straight up and makes minimal contact, it is not a foul.
But I will admit that the play against a driving Brandon Roy was a foul. Otherwise, jumping should be fine. It doesn’t help the refs make a decision, but it should be allowed.
The Dream Shake - Where Brooks > Alston happens.
"I think girls are probably just better shooters." - Steve Novak
Yao can have as much contact as the other player causes if he jumps straight up
And that rule doesn’t mean perfectly flat as a board, it means directionally straight up. Humans are not poles, there is a certain amount of leeway allowed by the rule, even if officials suck at using it.
www.TheDreamShake.com Co-Founder and Writer
You are allowed to jump, I don't know why fans of basketball don't know that
www.TheDreamShake.com Co-Founder and Writer
Without video...
It is hard to tell what a foul is by pictures. You can’t see the motion prior to the contact. You are correct in the explanation though. I still think that Yao gets away with murder though ;-)
"And once again we can say, it's a GREAT day to be a Blazer."- Brian Wheeler
Just cuz Joel has a european last name
doesn’t make him a flopper
Magneto was right
MEMO TO KP-GET BIRDZILLA!
Have you ever thought...
that Przybilla might be falling backwards because Yao just swung his gigantic elbows right through his jaw as he does the majority of the time he has the ball. Just a thought.
"And once again we can say, it's a GREAT day to be a Blazer."- Brian Wheeler
i have
but if yao had hit him square in the jaw… pryzbilla’s head would be slanted towards the left. i can’t speak for you, but the few times when i’ve been hit in the jaw i assure you my arms were not straight up as i fell. close, but try again.
Ok, Maybe not the jaw then...
maybe the chest? You have to admit that Yao swings his elbows every time he gets the ball, half the time he about rips someones head off. But hey, if he can get away with it, why not do it. I certainly wouldn’t complain if Oden did it once in a while.
"And once again we can say, it's a GREAT day to be a Blazer."- Brian Wheeler
hmm i haven't noticed that yet so far
but i’ll be sure to watch for it tonight.
to be fair to yao, it must be difficult trying to turn around with 2 pairs of hands all over your back so i assume the use of the elbow to clear some breathing space may be justified.
Part of it...
is that he is so damn tall that when he holds his elbows high they are at neck level of everyone else. I’m not ripping on Yao for doing it, i’m just mad that he doesn’t get called for it more often.
"And once again we can say, it's a GREAT day to be a Blazer."- Brian Wheeler
Back.....
and to the left.
Back……
and to the left.
Clearly the bullet came from the area of this grassy knoll.
I think on this play Joel took a shoulder (maybe an elbow) to the chest and rather than take a step or two back to recover, he tried to draw the foul. And failed.
Everybody was a baby once, Arthur. Oh, sure, maybe not today, or even yesterday. But once. Babies, chum: tiny, dimpled, fleshy mirrors of our us-ness, that we parents hurl into the future, like leathery footballs of hope. And you've got to get a good spiral on that baby, or evil will make an interception.
to the left, to the left...
everything you own in the… ok i’ll stop.
if joel indeed took contact and tried to sell it, he should spend more time practicing flailing his arms on the way down.
I think Joel was "selling it"
As some rockets fans prefer to label flopping with style
by hobbyshop_hero on Apr 24, 2009 5:38 PM CDT up reply actions
Yao
It’s important to understand that us Blazer fans are in a process of calibration on what is and isn’t a foul down low. Refs have been characteristically harsh on Oden, even when it seems like he does everything in his power to contest the shot while avoiding contact. He still brings his arms down far more than he should, but even when he’s standing up straight as an arrow, he gets nailed.
I have been very impressed with how Yao contests shots in the post. While refs are inconsistent on the matter, the truth is that jumping straight up should be allowed. Otherwise, you’re asking post defenders to allow a straight line to the basket, which is ludicrous.
As for the flopping, I really think that obvious flops should be assessed a fine, the same way the league reviews flagrant fouls. I also feel that defenders who square their shoulders and fall over when contact is made should be called for the blocking foul. If you aren’t making a play on the ball, you’re not playing defense, and making a mockery of the rules.
That said, until the rules change, I will applaud every time one of our guys has the wherewithal to draw the offensive foul. It makes no sense not to take advantage of the way the game is called. Blame the way these refs are instructed to call the game, not the refs themselves nor the players who give themselves the edge.
Its clear even in those photos
That Yao is straight up with ONE ARM, which is what you guys are focusing on. If you look at the pictures posted above you will notice his other hand making contact with the driving player (roy or howard). A majority of the time this is what happens, then after he has pushed or bumped the driving players body, he sticks his arms straight up as if he was in that position the whole time. Quite deceptive, and with NBA wanting to see Houston advancing to get ratings in China, this, although it could and sometimes should be called a foul, probably wont be called as much as it should
perhaps...
or maybe he was actually using his off arm to support Roy from falling flat on the ground in pic1 and I really don’t think his arm is even touching Howard in the second pic (do you even see the elbow in his throat?). of course, I could be entirely wrong I mean Yao could actually be holding a switchblade with the other hand in that first picture.
but you do have a point with the officials not being able to see when Yao puts his arms up; they’re too busy staring at his feet for travelling.
lol Im sure that Yao, while trying to reject a shot of roys, was using his other hand to protect him from
falling while at the same time his teammate is falling flat on his back.
Its crazy how small howard looks in that pic compared to yao.
In both of those pics you cant really tell if yao is touching the driving players, but they are just pics which can be as deceptive as our point of veiw as fans.
hey man
feel free to interpret it however you see it. the point is to not to judge past calls, but future ones.
perhaps......
in that third picture joel was falling backwords to protect Yao….I never realized NBA players care so much about each other.
by tevisthe4th on Apr 26, 2009 12:19 PM CDT up reply actions
If you look closely you will see that Yao has only ONE ARM up and is protecting the ball with his other...
"Yes I have received many, many blessings. I am so, so happy!"
Secret weapon...
Yao needs to smother Przybilla’s face with that hairy pit
It's all my fault.. Its entirely my fault
Yes HardGay
I would agree with you that it is such a disturbing pic
"Yes I have received many, many blessings. I am so, so happy!"
If David Stern could manipulate the outcome of games to make Houston advance...
he probably would have done it the past two years, instead of letting Utah move on. It’s a no-brainer – millions of fans internationally vs. a bunch of inbred morons who wear ties over their jerseys. Alas… even Stern doesn’t have that type of power.
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