Why is Jerry Sloan in the Hall of Fame, but not Rudy Tomjanovich?
by grungedave on Apr 6, 2009 2:42 PM CDT
in Random Commentary
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PrintThe next wave of basketball Hall of Famers were announced today...
in news that should surprise exactly no one except maybe Don Imus, here are this year's newest inductees:
Michael Jordan
David Robinson (obligatory link)
John Stockton
C. Vivian Stringer
Jerry Sloan
Okay, John Stockton I kinda understand. He was a dirty player sneaky good, but he is the all-time assists leader. Not that he ever won anything important. Not even at Gonzaga.
David Robinson I also understand. Even though Wages of Wins was wrong, Robinson was very good for a very long time. He just wasn't Hakeem, so it's hard for me to get all excited about the Admiral being in the HOF.
I hear that Michael Jordan guy was pretty good, too, so I guess there's no reason to argue about his inclusion into the Hall. Even if Robert Horry has more rings and people think Horry somehow doesn't belong. (Those people are wrong.)
C. Vivian Stringer. I really only know who she is because of the Imus situation. Sad but true. But if there has to be a token female inductee every year, someone please explain how Stringer makes it over Cynthia Cooper. Yeah, there really isn't an argument against Cooper. Voters are dumb. As seen by:
Jerry Sloan. Seriously? One member of the Jazz making the Hall in any given year is pushing it. TWO making it is a disgrace! Yes, Jerry Sloan has been coaching the Jazz for twenty years. Whoopity-doo! Aside from being a homophobic curmudgeon who relies on fear to get his message across to his players -- what exactly has Jerry Sloan done for the game of basketball? It's not like he's won anything of importance.
Sloan as a player? Sure, he was a two-time all-star. So were lots of players who won't sniff the Hall of Fame (hint, hint - Tracy McGrady). Nope, not HOF worthy.
I object to the induction of Jerry Sloan not simply because I dislike the guy and anything that has to do with the Utah Jazz (and I really, really hate the Utah Jazz). No, my real objection is this:
WHAT ABOUT RUDY TOMJANOVICH?
Rudy T is the greatest coach in the Houston Rockets history. Rudy T brought the Rockets and the City of Houston their first two major Championship Trophies.
As coaches go, Rudy T accomplished more in his decade-plus as the Rockets' coach than Jerry Sloan has accomplished in twice the time. Furthermore, Rudy T did more for his community in that timeframe than Sloan as well.
I think one overriding reason Rudy is still not in the Hall is because the NBA still tries to distance itself from the Kermit Washington incident. This is highly unfortunate. Why? Because Rudy T showed what kind of person he is by having the inner strength and courage to forgive Kermit Washington for nearly killing him on a basketball court with a sucker punch. It's true - Tomjanovich has been trying to help Washington for years now. Do you ever think Jerry Sloan could do something like that? In a word ... no.
What about their playing careers. The argument for Sloan is that he was just as good a player as a coach. The same can be said for Rudy T. Tomjanovich was a five-time NBA All-Star. He averaged 17.4 points per game over his 11 year career (no doubt shortened by the Washington incident). Rudy also led the Rockets to their first appearance in the NBA Finals in 1981. In short, Tomjanovich's candidacy for the Basketball Hall of Fame cannot be undermined by his playing career. If anything, Rudy T's ability and production on the court was just as impressive as his work on the sidelines.
I don't care what the voters say: Rudy Tomjanovich is a Hall of Famer. Jerry Sloan being inducted before Rudy T is just an egregious oversight. It's okay though... Rudy T has two things Sloan never will:
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Ruby?
You guys must be thinking of that chick Ruby Tugonyourdick that you frequent at the Houston Sleeze bar, because she is about the thing HOF worthy to come out of Houston.
Simple mistake.
Sloan could kick everyones ass in this room. Seriously. Jealousy runs deep on this site.
We bleed True Blue.
www.truebluejazz.com
I also agree
I don’t see how the NBA can use the Washington incident against Rudy T. It wasn’t his fault. They don’t need to publicize that fact when he gets nominated or inducted.
The Rockets had the talent, but they never pulled it together until Rudy was brought in.
Also, this probably means Sloan will never win Coach of the Year, which is great. I love how every year that he has a chance, there’s like three other coaches who deserve it more. Then again, all other 29 coaches deserve it more every year. They at least teach basketball, not flopping.
Oh, and John Stockton is the all-time steals leader, too. I love him as much as every other Jazz player (is negative love possible?), but even I have to give it up to the only player in basketball to lead all-time in two major categories. He’s got over 750 more steals than the number 2 (MJ), and over 5000 more assists than second place (MJ, actually Mark Jackson, but I find humor in that).
How many Biletnikoffs does he have? NOT TWO!
Rudy T...
Also led a USA team to a Gold Medal.
Apparently what matters to HOF voters is having a perennial playoff team that never quite gets it done.
Winning? Who cares about that anyway…
waaaaaaaa
i really really really want the Jazz to play houston in the playoffs!!!!!!
Dave, I know you love to take potshots at Tracy,
but this line:
So were lots of players who won’t sniff the Hall of Fame (hint, hint – Tracy McGrady)
Is probably wrong. Even if he doesn’t come back from the surgery in any way close to form, he’ll almost certainly make the hall. Even if he retired today, he’d probably get in. And if he comes back for a few more seasons, then I’d say he’ll definitely do so.
He’s been widely viewed as the 2nd best SG/SF in the league across his career. He’s a two-time 1st team all-nba, 3 time 2nd team, and 2 time 3rd team player. Scoring champ twice. Yeah, lack of playoff success will hurt him, but I’d assume that the voters are smart enough to realize that basketball is a team sport, after all.
For what it’s worth, B-Ref has his hall of fame probability (I’d put a lot less stock in than similar metrics for predicting baseball’s HoF) at about 98%.
I don't think Tracy will make it
Case in Point: Bernard King, one of the greatest scorers in NBA history, is not in the hall of fame. Also had a knee injury that derailed his career, though he was actually able to have a few successful seasons afterward. As long as Bernard is not in, Tracy will not be in.
"I think girls are probably just better shooters." - Steve Novak
King was a prolific scorer,
but my point was that Tracy has been routinely thought of as one of the top three SG/SF in the league since he signed with Orlando. That means a great deal. King was named to the NBA 1st team twice (same as McGrady), but was named to the 2nd and 3rd teams only once each. McGrady’s been named to one of the teams 8 out of the last 9 seasons. He’s been seen as not simply a scorer but one of the best-passing scorers in the game. McGrady has the peripheral qualities that Hall of Fame voters want, and I think he’d make it off of that.
And, if you want to get technical, McGrady and King aren’t even close in terms of advanced stats. In four fewer seasons, McGrady’s been worth about 20 fewer win shares. The HoF probably doesn’t look at that, but they probably should.
maybe
I doubt it though…
McGrady has a supposed probability of 97+%
http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/hof_prob_career.html
but according to this he is right on the borderline:
http://www.basketballreference.com/leaders/leadershof.htm
but he’s going to get lost in the backwash of a lot of SG/SF types that may retire soon… a byproduct of the expansion of the NBA in the 90s.
"borderline"
is different from “likely.” From their explanation of their hall of fame metric:
Being elected NBA First Team carries some weight with the hall. 80% of players who were All NBA First Team two or more times and are eligible for the hall of fame, are in the hall of fame. The percentage jumps to 96% for players with three or more NBA First Team selections
80% sounds pretty good to me. And add in winning the scoring title twice…
Look, I think you’re allowing your current misplaced anger at T-Mac to cloud your memory of just how good most people thought he was from 2000 until this year. Think about how big of a deal the media makes out of his current absence. You might be able to argue that people have consistently overrated his contributions throughout his career (you’d be right, to an extent. The media has placed too high a value on his relatively inefficient scoring and not enough on his other contributions), but that really doesn’t say anything about his likelihood of entry.
i don't think it is "clouding judgment"
I think that while he was clearly a premier scorer in the league, and quite possibly its best player for a season or maybe even two, it doesn’t automatically qualify someone for the hall of fame. maybe i rate the “legacy” factor too highly on my criterion, but T-mac’s legacy is going to be “Man, if only he could have won a title or stayed healthy” before “He was one of the best scorers I’ve ever seen.”
"I think girls are probably just better shooters." - Steve Novak
didn't say either of y'all had clouded judgement
only clouded memory.
Yeah, the “if only he’d won a championship” thing will be there, but think about where it comes from. It’s not “If only he won a championship. Then we’d know he was truly great.” It’s “If only he won a championship. He was so great in his prime that he should have done it.” It’s a tragic thing because he was an absolutely transcendent player for a few years, and a great one for several years after that.
but T-mac’s legacy is going to be "Man, if only he could have won a title or stayed healthy" before "He was one of the best scorers I’ve ever seen."
We’ll see if that’s the case (you’re assuming the Rockets don’t repeat next season). But, as I said, the second statement justifies why the first is even made, and that’s why he’ll get in.
U are on point
2 NBA finals appearances, no rings as a coach or player. Sloan is a good coach, his teams prepare well and run his offense. No solo missions if you are playing for the Jazz. But you are spot on about Rudy T. If he was healthy to coach today, I would want him back. His time will come, you can’t deny his accomplishments.
by Pippreallysuxed on Apr 6, 2009 10:42 PM CDT reply actions
I don’t have a huge problem with Sloan getting in. He’s coached a long time in this league for the same team, and that’s an accomplishment all by itself. They have been a pretty good team throughout that time too…even though I can’t stand him or his team. I understand why he’s being inducted. I’m not surprised that he’s getting in the hall. I think Rudy should be in before him, but I’ve got a huge bias. Sloan has double the regular season wins as a coach, but Rudy’s got 2 rings. He was also a better player. Throw in his gold medal as a coach, and it’s hard to understand why he’s not in the hall. I also think Rudy’s “Never underestimate the heart of a champion” speech after winning the second championship is highly underrated.
Rudy needs to get in
Rudy does have a great career line. Gold medal from the Olympics, as decent a player and a coach as has gotten in the HOF, but the most important thing is 2 Championship rings with teams that no one thought would make it to the Finals (including a Finals sweep of the Shaq-led Magic). If Sloan can get in (the only thing he’s ever won has been a case of Caffiene Free Coke from a church raffle), then Rudy should be a lock.
Personally, I’m going to http://myticketin.com/Event.aspx?EventID=7640 and ordering my Houston Rockets Tickets for the playoffs as soon as I get paid and then hope that we play the Jazz in the 1st round. We need to get some payback from years past when Floppyball cheated us out of various series. Hey … is Stockton getting in as a player or as a throw rug? ;-)
How is this not Rec'd?!!
Rudy T accomplished more in his decade-plus as the Rockets’ coach than Jerry Sloan has accomplished in twice the time
Agreed 100% with everything! I miss Rudy T! :’(
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
I know the Jazz hate here
But you’re making much ado about nothing. I’m not going to defend Sloan as it would fall on deaf ears.
As far as Rudy T goes though, you could look things up before your rants. Coaches have to have been retired for 5 full years before he can be considered for the HOF. Because of his brief stint with the Lakers in 2004, he doesn’t become eligible until next year:
Coach: A coach must be either fully retired for five years or, if still an active coach, have coached as either a fulltime assistant or head coach on the high school and/or college and/or professional level for a minimum of 25 years. That person will then be considered for Enshrinement in the sixth year of retirement or 26th year of active coaching.
So he’ll be nominated this fall. If he gets in, he’ll go in with Karl Malone :). That’s 4 Jazz men in three years fellas.
Also, the NBA doesn’t have anything to do with the HOF. It’s the basketball HOF not the NBA HOF.
Proceed with the Sloan bashing…
"Proceed with the Sloan bashing"
Don’t mind if I do!
Though, he’s clearly a HOF coach, but if Rudy doesn’t make it in I will be infuriated
www.TheDreamShake.com Co-Founder and Writer
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