Open Discussion : How much should the Rockets pay Ron Artest and Von Wafer

by UofTOrange on May 20, 2009 7:16 AM CDT in Player Analysis

It's officially the off-season for the Rockets. We have had a few posts up about where the Rockets go from here and we will have numerous others before and after the draft. Here is the order I see the Rockets issues in, not necessarily the order they'll be addressed in, just the order of importance:

1. Resign Artest and Wafer

2. Get a back up center for Yao. There are two option here: A. Young guy that has the potential to be a starter in the next 3 years or B. Get a relatively established back up that can come in and provide size, that can run with the second team and at least some modicum of offense

3. Address the Tracy McGrady situation, specifically making sure Tracy is doing every single thing in his power to be ready and at 100% as soon as he can. Now, does that mean I want McGrady back? I'm honestly not sure. McGrady is a good guy, he's not the evil that a lot of us (maybe even me) have depicted him as. No, he's not a hard worker, but maybe that can change with him seeing his teammates do something he never has. Sometimes it takes an event like this to get a guy like him going. If he doesn't, he's the most trade-able guy in the NBA with a huge contract that comes off in time for Lebron-a-palooza

4. Numbers 1 and 3 play into this: If Artest or/nor Wafer signs with the Rockets and McGrady is not ready/gets traded, huge holes are left at SG and SF. And that has to be addressed. We'll address 1-3 for sure in seperate posts and this one will be addressed in those

5. Negotiate : The Chinese Basketball Association needs to understand that Yao Ming is done with international basketball. His body cannot handle it and they are killing their cashcow /international basketball respect. I truly believe the Rockets have to negotiate this, and Daryl Morey will probably go learn Chinese to do it.

So, today let's discuss number 1. I don't expect everyone to agree with me on it, but I really, truly believe it's the correct scenario. Ron Artest is a Houston Rocket and needs to remain one. Too many people treat him like he's a number one option just because he was in Sacramento. He's not, he's a number 2 or 3 and he's getting paid like a 3 or 4 right now. Ron Artest at his current contract is an absolute steal in today's NBA and Daryl Morey knows this and traded for him for exaclty that reason. He plays both ends of the court and can do every basketball skill at least decently well. Artest is one of the few complete players left in the NBA and is worth every penny that he is getting.

Von Wafer on the other hand I don't know what to do with. He's the type of player you want to play with full emotion, but that you have to have playing both ends of the floor. He absolutely improved on that over the season and with a full off season and summer league I expect him to improve further. But how much do you give a guy that obviously has deficiencies and butted heads with his coach? The number is probably more than we'd like, but something that can be dealt with. I've been racking my brain and no team really has any cap space this season that Von Wafer would get an offer from that the Rockets wouldn't match, so that's not as much of a worry as I first thought.

There is a poll up for Artest but let's discuss both. What say you DreamShakers?

Poll

What's the most you would pay for Artest? And you aren't going to get him to agree to less than 3 years

4 years 37 MM

247 votes

3 years 30 MM

501 votes

3 years 27 MM

321 votes

3 years 25.5 MM - Basically his current contract

201 votes

Let him go - I don't understand it, but I'll give y'all that option

59 votes

1329 votes | Poll has closed

Tweet Comment 37 comments | 0 recs |

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Comments

I need a better option

“none of the above” should be an option.

Artest gambled and lost on the economy and getting a big contract. Which sucks for him, but we shouldn’t just negotiate against ourselves and give him an outrageous contract. The mid-level exception for ’09 is something like $5.6M. Artest cannot expect to get a contract that exceeds that amount in 2010.

Also remember… the salary cap might actually go down in value next year. So, while I want to sign Artest long term, a contract exceeding $20/3 years with a club option for a 4th year at closer to $8 or $9M would be monumentally dumb.

Why dumb you might ask? Simple. Three teams have cap room. Just three. Detroit, Memphis and Oklahoma City. None of those three will even attempt to touch Ron Artest. Since Daryl Morey is like a genius or something, he’s not going to negotiate against himself… leaving the only concern as “try not to insult Artest with your offer”.

by grungedave on May 20, 2009 8:27 AM CDT reply actions

They won't undercut him to save money

And every one of those teams you named would give him more than 20/3. You could not possibly be more incorrect

www.TheDreamShake.com Co-Founder and Writer

by UofTOrange on May 20, 2009 10:03 AM CDT up reply actions

Sorry, forgot something

bitch

www.TheDreamShake.com Co-Founder and Writer

by UofTOrange on May 20, 2009 10:07 AM CDT up reply actions

yeah

I see Detroit rushing to sign Artest. That would rule.

by grungedave on May 20, 2009 10:51 AM CDT up reply actions

That would be the most awesome thing ever.

Think about the potential promotional nights! We have Luis Scola hair night, and they could have Ron Artest half-price beer / ripped jersey night.

Your friendly neighborhood Dreamshake mod.

by Only_A_Lad on May 20, 2009 11:01 AM CDT up reply actions

heh

I would watch every single Detroit game I could.

by jasonmicron on May 20, 2009 1:53 PM CDT up reply actions

I think

even 7 mill. is a little much for someone passed their prime…dont get me wrong I love Artest and he def. did carry us through a couple of games in the playoffs. but for every great game he had he off set it with a bad game. Hes going into his 11th year, hes getting old. Im not saying insult him with a horrible contract but just dont over do it.

I DO want to see Ron in Rockets Red again…..just dont over pay thats all

Great players dont win championships.....Great TEAMS win chapionships

by DT58forever on May 20, 2009 11:59 AM CDT up reply actions

I tend to agree.

I think this is the Nuclear Summer of the NBA. The Rockets remain in good shape, so whether or not you hurt his feelings, you have to get bargains when things are cheap.

"So do you keep open 3pt FG percentage?"
"Yeah, we'd have everything you'd want, Bill."
"I hate you."
Bill Simmons/Daryl Morey Podcast 5/8/09

by Xiane on May 20, 2009 12:52 PM CDT up reply actions

None of the above (+1)

30M/ 3 year ? No way.
Not because his horrible shot selection. Not because his bad reputation.
Just because Morey won’t overpay anyone and knows the market for Artest is limited.

And if Ron’s alternatives are Memphis or Okc and lots of losing on young teams for a couple million more, he’ll think twice.

by Chuck DeBruce on May 20, 2009 1:29 PM CDT up reply actions

Resign both!!!!

I think we need to keep both Artest and wafer. I agree artest is not a number 1 option but playing with Yao and (a healthy) McGrady would be awesome for him and for the Rockets. This would probaby push battier to the bench again but I am sure they can find a rotation that would put him in the game as soon as they can. But wafer is a spark that we need to come of the bench. A second team of Lowry, Wafer, Battier and Landry is awesome for building leads or gain ground on deficits.

I am not sure about the draft but I think if they can get a back up for Yao and T-mac that would be great. With their injuries, not sure how long they have left in the league before they call it quits. We have a solid team and can hang with the best of them with or without Yao or T-mac. So keeping them healthy would only put our team over the top. That’s just my opinion.

by Flip414 on May 20, 2009 8:34 AM CDT reply actions

One thing people are forgetting

Ron Artest shot 40% from the field this season. That is an absolutely horrible number. Shane Battier shot better than he did. Out of the 119 qualifiers for the scoring title, Artest was 115.

And it isn’t like this was some horrible off year. For his career, Artest shoots only 42%. Furthermore he doesn’t mitigate this by getting to the line a ton. This season he went to the line under 4 times a game and his career average is under 5 FTA a game.

When you combine his horrendous efficiency with the amount of clock time he eats, it can clearly be seen that Artest is not a good offensive player. Cool guy, but not for me.

by natrix964909 on May 20, 2009 10:57 AM CDT reply actions

Yes, but...

he also shot 40% from three point range, which was better than the kobes, lebrons, ray allens… The key is to stop him from shooting those horrendous fade away double-teamed 20 footers.

by clutchcitywillreturn on May 20, 2009 1:42 PM CDT up reply actions

but his True Shooting % is only 51%, very sub par.

by natrix964909 on May 20, 2009 2:23 PM CDT up reply actions

51% is subpar for a wing player?

by airchina23 on May 21, 2009 8:55 AM CDT up reply actions

Yes

True shooting % takes into account three point shooting and free throws. Ray Allen was at 62% for the season. CP3 was 60%. Lebron was 59%. DWade and B. Roy were 57%. Kobe was 56%. The most frustrating thing about Ron is that he obviously has the shooting stroke to shoot a good percentage, but his decision making is often so atrocious, that he shoots 40% from inside the arc as well, which is just a terrible percentage for 2-point field goals. And his defense was not what I was expecting. He gambles way too much for steals which almost always leads to an open three. He just doesn’t seem to want to play in a system that requires him to do something on offense or defense, and it’s frustrating to watch at times.

He did play a huge Game 6 for the Rockets in the first round and the team does seem to feed off of his energy when he’s playing well, but he’s too wild to offer a 3-year, $30 million contract. If Detroit or OKC or Memphis want to pay him that, more power to him. I’d honestly prefer to sign him to a 2-yr, $16 million contract and make him earn the extra years as he goes.

by forshizzzle on May 21, 2009 9:30 AM CDT up reply actions

In a perfect world .....

I think we should try to re-sign Artest and Wafer and get someone to push Tracy to rehab is @$$ off. My ideal line-up would be Brooks, McGrady, Artest, Scola and Yao starting. Lowry, Wafer, Battier, Landry and TBD backup center for their backups. I think Artest is best at small forward (keep him from handling the ball too much), Wafer is a good backup shooting guard (teach him to pass the ball). Get Landry working in the weight room and have him practice playing against Artest to teach him to get more physical. Force Tracy to watch tapes of Lebron, DWade and Kobe (when he decides to give the effort) to light a fire under him. Remind him that we got to the second round WITHOUT HIM. A little more experience and seasoning for Brooks and Lowry, a little luck in the injury department and I see an NBA title in the very near future.

by BleedRocketsRed on May 20, 2009 11:19 AM CDT reply actions

On Wafer,

I’ll say again that I think we’re overestimating the desire in the league for him.

Yes, he had a nice season, and displayed some real skills and assets. But most teams look at him and see a volatile, one-way player who has had one pretty good year, and couldn’t stick elsewhere.

I think teams might see Wafer and think of Marquis Daniels, another “out of nowhere” story that got a big contract and then melted down for several years. I think Indiana will be happy not to pay him $7 million next year.

Also I think that a lot of the “dumb money” in the NBA will be on the sidelines. The dumb teams also tend to be the teams without money this year. Im not saying Wafer is a bad player, but it reduces the chances of a crazy deal. Toronto, though, might roll the dice, their SG, SF position looks terrible, and Bosh is almost sure to go in 2010. Wow.

"So do you keep open 3pt FG percentage?"
"Yeah, we'd have everything you'd want, Bill."
"I hate you."
Bill Simmons/Daryl Morey Podcast 5/8/09

by Xiane on May 20, 2009 1:00 PM CDT reply actions

Speaking of the Raptors, how do you like Bargnani?

I don’t know the guy very well (except that he’s young and can’t play D), but his numbers look decent at a reasonable price.
Could he back up Yao?
Does this trade work?

Rockets: sign-and-trade Wafer+Cook (+cash or Dorsey, if they insist)
Raptors: Bargnani

by Chuck DeBruce on May 20, 2009 7:37 PM CDT up reply actions

Of course, no problem

It would be hard for the Raptors to pass on the tantalizing package of Wafer, Cook, and Dorsey. Even if they have to give up a recent No.1 overall pick and a potential franchise player, it would be a total steal on their end.

by oelayat on May 20, 2009 9:41 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs

sadly, this isn't NBA Live

Colangelo would never trade for Cook or Dorsey… and he’s not giving up Andrea, who finally looked like a legit player in his 3rd year.

by grungedave on May 21, 2009 8:21 AM CDT up reply actions

rob the spurs again. . .

tiago splitter. haha wouldn’t that be hilarious?

what about big baby?

I'll snap yo neck like a twig if you sass me again. . .

by Duhoh on May 20, 2009 1:45 PM CDT reply actions

no no no no no no no

i do not want an inefficient black hole on my team. especially one who isnt any taller than our current list of PF’s.

The Dream Shake
"I think girls are probably just better shooters." - Steve Novak

by Tom Martin on May 20, 2009 1:48 PM CDT up reply actions

Big Baby is No.1 on the “over-rated role player who played OK, but not great in the playoffs and will get a mid-level deal from some stupid lottery team” list

by oelayat on May 20, 2009 9:43 PM CDT up reply actions

Big Baby? Sure!

Also, what’s Greg Ostertag been doing these days?

by Chuck DeBruce on May 20, 2009 7:03 PM CDT up reply actions

What the Rockets should do....

Signing Artest is a must, with Tracy McGrady always suspect to injuries, thats a no brainer. I’d pay him what he wants, then trade Battier and Chuck Hayes to anyone who wants them. Battier is a good defender but his offense as a SF is terrible, besides a three pointer here and there, he doesn’t respect any attention from opposing teams. What they need is a slasher type SF to go along with Yao, McGrady, Artest and Brooks. Shaun Marrion would be the perfect SF/PF that Houston needs to get past the Lakers in the west. He would come off the bench with Wafer, Lowry and Landry a nice mix of toughness and speed. They also need a big center or PF(6’11" +) to replace the retired Mutombo(I wish he’d come back for 1 more year) when Yao goes to the bench either thru fee agency or the draft. Brent Barry and Brian Cook were no shows against the Lakers and that needs to be addressed in the near future. Just my thoughts on the Rockets future…

by Guroo8 on May 20, 2009 3:31 PM CDT reply actions

Are you a troll??

Trade Battier and Hayes?? Seriously?

I understand what youre saying about their offense, but i think you are focusing too much on the lakers series. Battier is the current leader of the team and the best defensive players. Hayes is the arguably the 2nd best defensive player. Trading both of them would be horrible for the rockets defense. Trading Chuck wouldnt be too bad, but we wouldnt get much at all. Marion would be nice offensively, but his defense is not up to rockets standards. With a healthy McGrady another slasher is not needed. James White will be getting more PT next year, Wafer will hopefully learn to pass, and there is still Battier, Tracy, and Ron. Those 5 people for SG/SF is very very good.

Brent barry and brian cook arent rotation players on a healthy Rockets team so they arent really an issue. Every team has players like them on the end of the bench, they are technically our 12th and 13th players, but due to injuries(T-Mac, Yao, Mutombo, Dorsey) they had to play.

Waiting for the day Houston gets some sports respect

by TexasHoosier on May 20, 2009 5:56 PM CDT up reply actions

trade Battier?

I can’t even come up with a witty response other than: why the fuck would we trade Battier??!~?!?

by grungedave on May 20, 2009 7:27 PM CDT up reply actions

I made this a long time ago,

and it seems so appropriate for every offseason thread.

Your friendly neighborhood Dreamshake mod.

by Only_A_Lad on May 20, 2009 7:39 PM CDT up reply actions

If we can still trade Rafer for CP3

I say we do it.

"So do you keep open 3pt FG percentage?"
"Yeah, we'd have everything you'd want, Bill."
"I hate you."
Bill Simmons/Daryl Morey Podcast 5/8/09

by Xiane on May 21, 2009 11:59 AM CDT up reply actions

trade Battier?

I can see we have some idiots on this subject. First of all, Battier is a liability on offense and secondly he’s inconsistant. Chuck Hayes is undersized and lacks scoring ability. If you have Yao, McGrady, Artest, Scoila and Brooks starting with Wafer, Lowry, Landry, Marion and a big center coming off the bench(Mutombo, come back..lol)….that’s a hell-of a second unit! Not to mention the other bench players they will draft or have already. I’ve watched Shane since the Duke days, he’s not the same player….period! He averaged 7.3 points a game – 0.9 blks – 0.8 stls – 2.3 asst – 4.8 reb and shot 41% from the field…WOW. Marion with two different teams averaged 14.3 points a game – 0.8 blks – 1.2 stls – 2.3 asst – 8.3 reb and shot 48% from the field! I’m just saying, the Rockets team I watched all year should be in the Western Conference Finals if it weren’t for injuries and the lack of offense. Just my thoughts ….

by Guroo8 on May 21, 2009 7:43 PM CDT up reply actions

I can see we have some idiots on this subject

Here’s a hint: it’s you.

Just my thoughts ….

Remember what I said about thinking before you post? Well, maybe you should take some extra time.

Your friendly neighborhood Dreamshake mod.

by Only_A_Lad on May 21, 2009 8:15 PM CDT up reply actions

less snarky version:

you’re talking about exchanging the best perimeter defender in the league for Marion. No, Battier is not an offensive “liability.” He can’t create his own shot, but he’s a good spot-up shooter who will hurt the other team if they leave him open (such as when he scorched the Lakers in Game 4). That Michael Lewis article wasn’t just hype, son.

And he’s fantastically underpaid for what he does, too. Battier isn’t going anywhere.

Your friendly neighborhood Dreamshake mod.

by Only_A_Lad on May 21, 2009 8:23 PM CDT up reply actions

My friend makes a good point

He’s obviously not going to get better any time soon, so don’t pay him as if he will. Course that’s really not how salaries work. Oh well, it was a nice thought.

"I'm just looking forward to something great happening in the city of Houston" - Tracy McGrady

Still waiting...

by DreKeem on May 20, 2009 8:38 PM CDT reply actions

Artest doesn't deserve $10 mil or more

If I were him I’d only sign for a 1 year contract. Economy should be better at this time next year.

by goingforthecorner on May 21, 2009 12:15 AM CDT reply actions

sign artest any day of the week, trade mclady any second of the year

by o_oholycrap on May 21, 2009 3:33 AM CDT reply actions

even trade

i think this is the best trade.you get rid of ron artest for someone that can play and is tall that will help your team like lamar odom.there is your answer. p.s. GO LAKERS 09

by michael g on May 24, 2009 3:46 PM CDT reply actions