Playoff Recap: Tempers flare in the fourth as Bryant, Lakers defeat Houston 111-98 in Game 2

by Tom Martin on May 7, 2009 2:20 AM CDT in Game Recaps

This was supposed to be about basketball. It was, after all, a basketball game. And through three quarters, it wasn't just a normal game; it was back-and-forth, tough-it-out game that featured some wonderful plays. Storylines were everywhere to be found. At that point, I had written down the following list of topics to cover in this recap:

Andrew Bynum's benching
Kobe Bryant's incredible first quarter
Ron Artest's continued brilliance on offense
Carl Landry's outstanding performance
Luis Scola's horrible performance
Yao Ming's dead air performance
The Rockets' hustle and resilient effort heading into the fourth.

But then the fourth quarter arrived, and each one of those aforementioned subjects quickly faded into the background. In their place stepped flaring tempers, ejections, dirty plays, and chemistry issues. It was no longer a basketball game. The score, the statistics, the drive to win - none of that mattered anymore. It turned into an episode of Jerry Springer, with each of the players accusing each other of this and that, jawing at each other like maniacs to escalate the situation, and then losing their tempers before being broken up by the referees, who naturally played the role of the security guards. It would have made for some great TV ratings, I'm sure of that. But for all of the wrong reasons. Oh, this could have been quite a special game. Unfortunately, the Rockets' opponent had a different agenda.

I don't want to talk about this, but you want to read about it. It's what you want that matters. You want answers, you want opinions, you want someone to agree with you so you can feel satisfied, and you want someone to disagree with you so you can argue your case. You want a conviction, a verdict, something to make you feel like the classlessness of this game and the shameful play of these athletes was brought to justice. But no matter what actions are taken by the front office, and no matter what is written, however truthful or apt it may be, nothing can take away from how awful this game was. Nothing. The players decide the games - we can only react. So I will react as best I can, for your sake, and, admittedly, for mine.

It started with Lamar Odom talking smack to Luis Scola. And it should have ended right away. Odom was clearly clinging to Scola's ear during dead balls; the referees should have cleaned it up before it got worse. Next thing you know, Odom keeps up the jib-jabbing before Scola says a few words back to him. Then Luke Walton steps in, and Scola doesn't take to it very well. Three technicals later, we're all back where we started: at a basketball game. You thought that was the end of it. It could have been the end. But it was merely the beginning, thanks to one Derek Fisher.

There are tough players in this league, and then there are dirty players. Derek Fisher, a man who garnered so much respect from fans for how he dealt with a family crisis during the playoffs a few years back, can now be labeled as a dirty player. It only takes on play, and this wasn't just a tiny cheapo. It was the most disgraceful thing I have ever seen from Fisher, and he deserves every bit of criticism that he will undoubtedly receive. That, and a nice letter from Stu Jackson.

Fisher decided not to be the better man. He decided that getting even was important. And instead of going through a pick in the same manner as every other guard in the NBA, Fisher decided to throw an elbow at Scola's face. I expect this from a young, immature, fresh-outta-high-school player, but not from an experienced veteran. Scola could have been knocked out cold. And yet, Fisher stands there like nothing happened. I mean, if you're going to start something, then by all means, follow through on it. Where was the continued trash talk while Scola was lying on the ground? Where was the final blow? Surely that is what Fisher was trying to do, wasn't it? Instead, Fisher stood there and treated the play like it was "tough." He treated it like it was just some normal playoff reaction, like it was actually going to benefit his team. He expected applause for the maneuver, he expected to be cheered for it. That was the look that he had on his face. It was not an expression of remorse, nor was it an expression of violent hatred. He looked indifferent to his cheap shot, like it was the proper course of action. What a lousy performance from someone who I thought to be a good human being.

There is no word I can think of to properly describe Fisher at the moment. Probably because such a word has yet to be invented. I'm not going to even throw any cuss words Fisher's way. He's below all of them. They don't suffice. Like I said, justice, in this situation, is unattainable for me. And it sucks. Oh, and if you don't think Fisher should have been ejected, leave now. Get as far away from this blog as possible, because I don't want to hear it. There are not two sides to this, not by any stretch of the imagination.

Following Fisher's folly was a Houston hiccup. Von Wafer suddenly got up off the bench and walked to the locker room. Later, Craig Sager reported that Wafer had been sent to the showers by Rick Adelman for arguing with him. All I can say is good riddance - if you're going to have a selfish attitude in an important game, then you don't deserve to be on the floor, regardless of how well you were playing. I tip my hat to Rick on this one. He sent Von a message, and we can only hope that Von received it with an open mind.

We had a short break from Springer, as a few minutes of basketball served as a reasonable commercial. But then Kobe Bryant opened up a can of cheap shots, and instead of dealing with it correctly, Ron Artest, who had played so well up to that point, chose to value a few insults at Bryant over the outcome of the game. It was at that point that the score lost all meaning. As Artest walked off the court following his ejection, our hustle and determination left the court as well.

True, Artest's situation was a horrible miss by the referees. Bryant elbowed him right in the throat, and then of course acted like nothing was wrong. It should have been an obvious call. But I'm tired of talking about the refs - nobody needs me to do so. Ron's decision to put himself over his teammates was a horrible decision. He could have accepted the foul and moved on, satisfied or unsatisfied. His maturation had been praised multiple times during the game, and yet, there he was yelling in Bryant's face. I know what Artest was feeling, but think how his teammates felt when he deserted them down the stretch. Which is more valuable here?

We all know Kobe Bryant is annoying. We know he is a terrible sport. We know that for every ounce of talent that he has, he lacks the same amount in sportsmanship. But it is a given - you accept it and move on, no matter how unfair it is. There is no point in fighting Kobe, because once you do, you're suddenly fighting the NBA as well. Artest didn't realize this, and it cost his team their final chance at a comeback.

I'm now going to address the basketball issues of tonight's game, and sadly, I'm sure many of you will stop reading here and move on because you don't care anymore. The sad part is that I wouldn't particularly blame you. And that goes to show just what a travesty Game 2 proved to be.

Jump for the game analysis...

Andrew Bynum is the future of the Lakers' post play. He is talented, strong, dedicated, and above all, a perfect match up for the Rockets. Phil Jackson recognized this, and made perhaps the smartest decision of this postseason by taking Bynum away from Yao and pairing him with the second team. This move rotated Pau Gasol onto Yao and Lamar Odom onto Scola.

Two things immediately came into play with this bold move. For one, Gasol is very quick for his size, and is able to make a play on nearly every post-entry pass to Yao, assuming he hasn't already fronted him first. Also, by putting Gasol and Odom in together, the Lakers may lose an inch or two of size, but in terms of rebounding, they actually gain ground. Gasol and Odom are two of the best offensive rebounders in the league, and they have already combined for an astounding nineteen offensive rebounds through two games. Secondly, Odom, like LaMarcus Aldridge, is a much harder match up for Luis Scola. Odom's athleticism and ability to shoot from the outside is a decisive advantage in the Lakers' favor. Jackson's gamble proved to be hardly that, as Bynum's absence from the game actually benefitted the Lakers.

However, it wasn't the Bynum switch that got the Lakers off to a roaring start. Instead, it was the first quarter takeover by Kobe Bryant, who hit some incredibly difficult shots over Shane Battier. He finished the first with fifteen points and only missed a few shots. There wasn't much Battier could do, as he was constantly in Bryant's face. Kobe just got hot. Every shot that didn't fall for the Lakers in Game 1 finally rang true in the first quarter of Game 2. It was as if the basketball gods had made up for their previous inexcusable mistakes. Fisher also got off to a good start, hitting his first few shots. The Lakers finished the first quarter on a roll and looked to thoroughly blow out the Rockets before halftime.

But then something unexpected happened. Carl Landry, normally a quick burst of energy off the bench, took over. He absolutely took the game over. Every loose ball on the rim suddenly became Landry's. Every foul call on the Lakers was following a Landry put-back attempt. Every time the Lakers scored, the Rockets countered with a layup or some free throws, and each time I looked up to see who it was from, I kept seeing Carl Landry confidently running down the court., fresh off of another edit to his stat sheet. The spark that he sent through our team carried over to our defense, as the Lakers finally stopped making every single shot that they took. We took advantage of L.A's temporary mortality and stormed back to take the lead. It was all because of Landry. Ron Artest may have had a fantastic first half, but the comeback was Landry's to claim. Carl finished the game with a playoff career high 21 points and ten rebounds, along with 13 free throw attempts. I don't care if he missed six of them - he was a warrior in the paint, and thus gets a pass.

However, somewhere lost in all of this unexpected glory was the fact that Yao Ming only took one shot in the first half. It speaks volumes about the importance of Landry's stellar performance, but also brings up a major issue. As the game progressed, it seemed like Yao Ming's absence was actually a good thing. When he was in the game, our offense stalled. When he was out, our offense picked back up. It was as simple as that. This concerns me, because Carl Landry isn't going to be this phenomenal every night. We must find a way to not just incorporate Yao, but make him the focal point of our offense.

I hated Luis Scola's performance tonight. Hated, hated, hated it. He didn't deserve to be on the same court with the other Rockets out there. He didn't deserve to be in the game in place of Landry. Where Landry was aggressive in the paint, Scola was hesitant and apprehensive (whether he dunks or not isn't relevant, by the way). Where Landry attacked every rebound, Scola waited for the ball to come to him, and was thus beaten. Where Landry helped in the Rockets, Scola hurt them. I was looking for an improvement from Scola after his decent Game 1 performance, but this was a step back. I'm not convinced that he can keep up with anyone aside from Gasol out there. Bynum's benching may have affect Scola as much as it affected Yao.

It was unfortunate that Chuck Hayes was whistled for some petty fouls, because he played some great defense while he was in the game. And with Yao sitting on the bench, Hayes played 21 minutes. Though I am all for Chuck getting in the game, we can't afford to have him play this much - it is too big of a blow to our offense. To be clear, I love what Hayes has done in these first two games, but we need to see more Yao. Unless of course, Chuck goes to the free throw line. I'll sacrifice two points to see some Chuckwagon free throws.

We desperately need to take better care of the ball. Nineteen turnovers is absurd, regardless of how tenacious the Laker defense is. For the Rockets to have three less assists than turnovers is worrisome. The turnovers led to 21 points for the Lakers, and contributed to many of their nineteen fast break points (nineteen must be tonight's lucky number or something). There was one point in the game where we could have tried to get the ball down to Yao, as Bynum was guarding him. But instead, Lowry, Brooks, and Artest all tried to dribble through three defenders and turned the ball over. That was as painful a period to watch as any, which is saying a lot.

As for the foul disparity, it was expected. My disappointment with the officials was not in the number of fouls called per team, but instead in how they handled the warning signs leading up to the temper tantrums. Game 3 will surely be filled with whistles right from the start.

In all, I thought that the Rockets gave themselves a great chance to win, but ultimately let it slip away in the flurry of technical fouls and ejections. Had we kept our heads among the chippiness, we could have made a run to win. Artest could have hit some big shots down the stretch, and we could have stolen a second game on the road. But we didn't do any of those things, and we lost as a result. But this team has no reason to hang their heads - we played the best team in the Western Conference as well as we could have on the road, and the funny thing is that we still have many areas to improve upon. With the series tied 1-1, Rockets fans should be confident. Nobody expected us to put up a fight, but we've done even more than that. Let's hope that these next few games will be more about basketball and less about who can piss everyone off. I know the Rockets will be classy. Tough to say the same thing for the Lakers.

But it would be nice to at least see some improvement.

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Comments

Turnovers killed us

It was a very winnable game until Kyle tried to plow through a ton of trees in the 4th. I think it was a seven point swing. from there it got out of hand. I think the turnovers would be the easiest to control.

by AWSF on May 7, 2009 2:33 AM CDT reply actions

Mark me down as 'agreed with and thus feels satisfied' with this post

I wasn’t shocked by the dirty play of the Lakers, but I am absolutely appalled. I was never into the whole Kobe love/hate thing. I always saw him as a hardworking player and the greatest closer (and thus best player) in the game.

Now? I see him as an absolutely dirty player who tries to get his wins by talking trash and throwing dirty elbows as much as hitting shots. Who plays like that? Thats not the mark of a champion at all.

It also finally gives me an opinion on those Laker fans who have never lived, or even visited LA or Cali. This is the bandwagon winning you support? If you’re trying to find the latest apparent winner and desperately cling on to them in an effort to make yourself relevant, buy a Yankees cap. At least they don’t get their wins by employing dirty, underhanded (dare I say, Jazzian) tactics everytime they’re challenged.

Also, I’m glad that Ron Artest provided a coolheaded and calculated response to his actions on the court. I wish he hadn’t lost his temper, but the fact that it was obviously a tempered move leads me to believe that this is not a ‘falling apart’ game for us.

See you in Houston, LA fans. Unless, of course, you already live here in which case: get a life.

by flipasta on May 7, 2009 2:38 AM CDT reply actions

yes

but the fact that it was obviously a tempered move leads me to believe that this is not a ‘falling apart’ game for us.

Excellent point.

The Dream Shake
"I think girls are probably just better shooters." - Steve Novak

by Tom Martin on May 7, 2009 2:39 AM CDT up reply actions

Anyone see the Lakers fan in the crowd wearing a purple and yellow...

New York Yankees hat. Talk about bandwagon fan. How do you become a Yankee fan and a Laker fan?

Eddie Johnson at the buzzer.....

by akaiser22 on May 7, 2009 2:43 AM CDT reply actions

All the respect that I had for Kobe Bryant

is gone

by Thrashkill on May 7, 2009 2:44 AM CDT reply actions

Yeah I know you all really RESPECTED him before tonight........LOL

The NBA has become pathetic. That’s all I will say.

"Don't I know you from somewhere"?. "Nah, that ain't me, I'm from Buffalo" - Axel Foley

by pslakerfan on May 7, 2009 3:03 AM CDT up reply actions

Well, at least you used to respect the guy

by Gils_Keloids on May 7, 2009 3:03 AM CDT up reply actions

I STILL respect his game

It’s hard not to unless you are an unreasonable person. He’s a basketball legend.

It is just sad he is a detestable human being.

"We Believe" - Rudy Fernandez

by TheGreatMon on May 7, 2009 3:41 AM CDT up reply actions

College must be the difference.

I guess the only explanation for the vast superiority of Battier’s maturity to Kobe’s is college?
I shudder to imagine how good Kobe could be if he didn’t act like a 14 year old.

by texasag on May 7, 2009 8:33 AM CDT up reply actions

Blazer fan here

Just want to say that I am rooting with you guys and hope that you are able to get rid of Kobe and the L*kers. Great series so far.

"In general, I hate the snap judgments. I hate the rush to predict things. I hate the sports culture that can't think of anything to say unless it is predicting things. I dislike the over-hyping and the following angst-ridden crashes. I dislike the overdrawn, over-simplified, nuance-free generalizations that sprout like weeds over the conversational landscape because accuracy and fairness and truth don't fit as neatly between commercials or quote as easily around the water cooler."
-Dave

by wwKPd on May 7, 2009 2:59 AM CDT reply actions

Derek Fisher was rightly ejected and should be suspended

BUT how convenient that the recap is so detail on what Lamar Odom did, and leaves out Scola grabbing onto Odom’s jersey as he’s fouled (not sure what he was trying to accomplish there)

It started with Lamar Odom talking smack to Luis Scola. And it should have ended right away. Odom was clearly clinging to Scola’s ear during dead balls; the referees should have cleaned it up before it got worse. Next thing you know, Odom keeps up the jib-jabbing before Scola says a few words back to him. Then Luke Walton steps in, and Scola doesn’t take to it very well.

And then omits any mention of how Artest was pushing and shoving Kobe’s downward, on top of his back (an illegal maneuver) shortly before Kobe throws the elbow.

But then Kobe Bryant opened up a can of cheap shots, and instead of dealing with it correctly, Ron Artest, who had played so well up to that point, chose to value a few insults at Bryant over the outcome of the game.

Every action has an equal and opposite reaction. These things didn’t happen in a vacuum.

Again, Fisher was rightly ejected and should be suspended for one game.

by Gils_Keloids on May 7, 2009 3:03 AM CDT reply actions

Don't bother gils_you're arguing with a brick wall.

"Don't I know you from somewhere"?. "Nah, that ain't me, I'm from Buffalo" - Axel Foley

by pslakerfan on May 7, 2009 3:03 AM CDT up reply actions

No I'm not

I looked like some kind of glass screen

by Gils_Keloids on May 7, 2009 3:04 AM CDT up reply actions

I agree about Fisher getting suspended...............

but whining about Kobe foul is a joke. That was barely a foul and sure as hell not worthy of suspension, but Darth Stern will have his say. I’m not holding my breath.

"Don't I know you from somewhere"?. "Nah, that ain't me, I'm from Buffalo" - Axel Foley

by pslakerfan on May 7, 2009 3:06 AM CDT up reply actions

Artest has been cool all season

I’ve never seen Artest lose his cool like that. I couldn’t really see clearly from the angles they showed, but I’m guessing that Artest was fouled pretty hard.

by PrinceOfThePalace on May 7, 2009 3:10 AM CDT up reply actions

with all due respect

it was an elbow to the throat. kobe’s a great player, he didn’t need to do that. it was down right dirty.

no it’s not worthy of suspension, but they should upgrade it to flagrant.

by airchina23 on May 7, 2009 4:29 AM CDT up reply actions

Barely a foul?

Dwight Howard got suspended for throwing an elbow, and he was going the other way.

Kobe had a clenched fist and he had momentum to injure Artest. His elbow was going from the front to the back. Even UFC has no elbow strikes on head or face.

by HoustonFan on May 7, 2009 6:32 AM CDT up reply actions

I don't think Kobe's elbow should warrant a suspension either.

It was on Crawford & friends who didn’t call it then. Kobe hurt his image (again), and that is enough punishment for him.
I am however astounded that the officials were so lenient on Odom’s behavior since that was the catalyst for everything that happened that night. Scola grabbed Odom’s jersey? What the hell is wrong with that if a foul was already called? Jersey grabbing happens at least 3 times a game, so Odom is allowed to stick his head in Scola’s face on every dead ball? I know Laker fans will disagree with me, but those several Laker players really demonstrated everything that is wrong with the NBA.

"Hip-Thrust!" - Hard Gay

In case you're wondering, Hard Gay is married.

by hardgay on May 7, 2009 2:58 PM CDT up reply actions

Look at the footage again.

It wasn’t over the back. Both Kobe and Artest were on the ground fighting for position to get the ball. Artest was the stronger one and he was about to get the ball but he got elbowed.

It wasn’t even illegal. Kobe was leaning back. Artest had his arms in the air ready to get the ball.

by HoustonFan on May 7, 2009 6:37 AM CDT up reply actions

artest pushed...

…Kobe halfway across the lane with a forearm to the back of his head – watch the entire play.

Could artest be any more unhinged? There is contact like that on most plays underneath the basket and you do not see any other players going nuts about it. artest is mentally unstable and a danger to other players as well as fans – this we know for a fact – he should not be playing in the nba.

by Lakers Rule on May 7, 2009 11:17 AM CDT up reply actions

shooooo shoooo, back under your bridge now

by texasag on May 7, 2009 12:09 PM CDT up reply actions

stop

no one react to Lakers Rule anymore.

Kobe doesnt throw elbows. Ron is bat shit crazy and is more dangerous than a rabid bear.
Therefore, Kobe was a victim. Rinse. Repeat.

This is what Lakers Rule tells himself everynight before he gets in bed so he can go to sleep.

by bubblescreen on May 7, 2009 12:13 PM CDT up reply actions

And you're an idiot

That is all.

by UHoustonFan on May 7, 2009 1:06 PM CDT up reply actions

I’m sure Ron just “lost his balance” and was trying to get up.

by seanbergmanrules on May 7, 2009 7:37 AM CDT up reply actions

How can you equate

Shirt tugs and shoves, which every single player does, to obviously thrown elbows? I don’t care that Kobe was getting shoved. when a man throws, literally throws an elbow into another man, there’s a big difference. You can even see it on the replay. He had position on Artest, in fact the foul was called on Artest for his shoves. then Kobe clearly threw his elbow into Artests throat. It should’ve been a double foul and Kobe’s should’ve been a flagrant. Not to mention all the jawing he did to Battier the ENTIRE game and only got one tech out of it.

The encouraging thing is that you guys think you can bully these rockets back to intimidation and I think that the second quarter is what you can expect for the rest of this series. We won’t back down and we’re more of a “team” than the L*kers are. If you’re not already you should be very scared about going back to Houston tied 1-1.

by Rock Creator on May 7, 2009 9:20 AM CDT up reply actions

*it looks like

by Gils_Keloids on May 7, 2009 3:04 AM CDT reply actions

The people i watched the game with are all laker fans...

diehard laker fans, and they still agreed that fisher should be suspended.

by PrinceOfThePalace on May 7, 2009 3:09 AM CDT reply actions

IF you think about, this stuff is really on the refs

For letting it get out of hand.

If you don’t call hard fouls when they happen, players are going to have to fight back themselves. You don’t just sit there and take it.

by Gils_Keloids on May 7, 2009 3:13 AM CDT reply actions

Can't do that

It would have upset the fans in the stands to much.

by texasag on May 7, 2009 7:58 AM CDT up reply actions

How about a new rule

Anytime a player gets a suspension, the other team gets to choose who gets suspended.

That would cut down on the physical play real quick.

by Gils_Keloids on May 7, 2009 3:14 AM CDT reply actions

You guys need to beat the L@kers.

You guys went away from Yao, and too much 1 on 1. The other advantage you guys had when playing the Blazers was any time you drove inside you got to the line, now Rockets are doing like Blazers did; when you dont get calls you start doing 1 on 1, and shooting to many jumpers. Example Lowry goes inside and never gets to the line in this series, but against the Blazers he did. So regroup and go to Yao, and Scola.

And Oden, once again, is a rookie, so non-stop fast break basketball is like fast-forwarding a song while he's trying to learn the lyrics.

by RipCity on May 7, 2009 3:48 AM CDT reply actions

@ OP

way to see things from one side. you look like a huge tool now idiot

by mr2 on May 7, 2009 3:56 AM CDT reply actions

You know, spellcheck can fix capitalizations for you.

While we’re talking about “tools” and all that.

by Orion Moony on May 7, 2009 4:03 AM CDT up reply actions

because people care about “all that” idiot

by mr2 on May 7, 2009 4:06 AM CDT up reply actions

LOOKOUT

We got a clever word smith here.

by texasag on May 7, 2009 7:59 AM CDT up reply actions

Your Rockets dominated the basketball the refs let get played

I am a Blazer Fan, not a Rockets fan except for ~the Drexler years. The refs were off course giving LA this game. AND they were trying to accomplish one or both of the following:

Plan A) Discourage the Rockets into thinking that they would not get a fair chance the rest of the way (‘punk them’, see Sacramento after gm 6 in the WCF), or

Plan B) Get your guys to blow up at the refs and/or the and earn some suspensions.

The second quarter proved that the Rockets have plenty of heart. No punks here. So it moves to Plan B — get a melee going and throw out the Rockets and try to get them (Artest, likely) to do something stupid to get suspended. It is ironic that the most likely suspend-ee is D Fisher.

But the refs did get the Rockets bench to go at each other, and turned the second half into a non-basketball game. I will say that the distraction, if not just the exhaustion or lack of heart near the end, caused alot of hustle plays to go the Leakers way. Gotta not do that again.

The “game” was obviously a total joke. Jerry Springer, indeed. Stern calls that basketball? I hope that the series turns from ‘reality TV’ to real basketball.

Remember when Yao grabbed a Blazers’ arm and made it look like a foul on the Blazers when it was approved as a “veteran move” by the media? Remember getting the best of the calls in Game 1 and Game 6? Remember that none of that matters if you man up and dominate these posers in yellow and lavender like you did in the second tonight and in Game 1? Well, payback is a bitch. The Leakers just take cheating to a new cheap shot level. So get over yourselves and stop whining.

Please: Destroy them all in 6.

Thank you!

by LaoTzu on May 7, 2009 4:08 AM CDT reply actions

Um

That was a very strange post. You like us, you hate us, you like us, you hate us, and I think in the end you like us.

by texasag on May 7, 2009 8:01 AM CDT up reply actions

by Gils_Keloids on May 7, 2009 4:21 AM CDT reply actions

That was uncalled for. I'm disappointed at that play by Kobe.

by airchina23 on May 7, 2009 4:23 AM CDT up reply actions

Yeah.

Apparently the rule that elbows thrown above the lack are automatic ejections don’t apply to Kobe.

How many more games in a row is he going to cheap shot our players without so much as a whistle being blown? First Battier on the floor with an elbow and knee to head and now a elbow to neck of Artest.

I honestly think that the officials are afraid that if they do eject Kobe there would be mass chaos and backlash in the stadium that the police and security can’t control – at least not before physical harm has come to them.

"I am from one of the top 15 cities in the world. Buffalo, New York." - TrentEdwardsHoF2018

by Artest4Prez on May 7, 2009 9:01 AM CDT up reply actions

My post

was supposed to say “above the neck” not “lack” – That doesn’t make any sense >_>

"I am from one of the top 15 cities in the world. Buffalo, New York." - TrentEdwardsHoF2018

by Artest4Prez on May 7, 2009 9:38 AM CDT up reply actions

Anyone looking at that play and then says it was a foul on Ron is a moron

I can’t make it any simpler for you than that

www.TheDreamShake.com Co-Founder and Writer

by UofTOrange on May 7, 2009 9:31 AM CDT up reply actions

I think its clear Kobe is throwing the elbow at Artest

This is at least a flagrant foul and at most a one game suspension if the league believes Kobe threw the elbow above the shoulders.

"I'm at the thingamajig talking the yakety-yak" - Kenny Smith

by blzrfan on May 7, 2009 1:56 PM CDT up reply actions

bulls fan here

Just showin some love for the Rockets. They’re my current favorite team remaining in the playoffs. They remind me of the Bulls in that they play tough, don’t complain much, and fly under the radar. I watched the game last night and it was quite clear the refs did not want the Lakers in an 0-2 hole. Reminded me of the way the refs treated the Bulls in Boston. I wonder who Stern wants in the finals, hmmm. Anyway, best of luck to your Rockets!

"Stay thirsty my friends" - the most interesting man in the world, giving the bulls a pregame peptalk

by Othella on May 7, 2009 4:24 AM CDT reply actions

I love Chicago. It's my second home.

Thanks for the love.

by airchina23 on May 7, 2009 4:25 AM CDT up reply actions

Another Bulls fan here, over from BAB,

the Rockets are my second favorite team as well. From what I saw and how Ron explained himself after the game, Ron shouldn’t have been ejected. All he did was get into a player’s face, not throwing any punches or elbows, and as far as I’m concerned, his actions were no different than Rafer Alston’s or Eddie House’s from the previous game. They got in each others faces and were each assessed T’s, nothing more. Ron’s ejection is further proof of how the league’s refereeing is skewed and that Ron will never shake the reputation of being a nut.

by dakoose on May 7, 2009 8:59 AM CDT up reply actions

laker fan here

before you roast me, let me mention that fisher’s player was dirty but don’t be quick to label him a dirty player. i’m sure some people here may have stolen a thing or 2 in their life but does that really make you a robber? you become a robber when you consistently/frequently rob and you become a dirty player when you are always dirty. one play does not make you dirty. that being said, i am not opposed to fisher being suspended for game 3. that tackle was uncalled for and he should be ashamed of himself.

as for kobe, let me say this before you rip me. when i 1st saw the play, i didn’t see a foul on artest nor kobe. looking at the gif that gils was kind enough to provide, i think kobe should have been called for a foul. i really don’t think he threw the elbow in purpose. it looks like he was fighting for the board with artest and was trying to get really good position. i play a lot of ball and those kind of plays happen all the time. if you remove the anger and hatred from your system right now and look at that play from an unbiased eye, you will see that kobe turned TOWARDS artest. it’s not like he elbowed him and turned the opposite way. i truly believe that elbow was unintentional.

all that being said, i understand if the league wants to suspend kobe and i’m cool with it. the league has an image to uphold after all.

btw, i think everyone who says stern wants to see the lakers in the finals should be flat out ashamed of themselves. it’s really easy to look at things that way and thing aren’t going your way

by Adamas on May 7, 2009 5:26 AM CDT reply actions

btw

i disagree with artest getting kicked out.

by Adamas on May 7, 2009 5:39 AM CDT up reply actions

It was

completely reactionary. It wouldn’t have happened if Fisher hadn’t already been kicked out. That coupled with Artest’s anger, the ref’s couldn’t allow a chance for another Indiana / Detriot situation.

That being said, I still don’t think he should have been kicked out.

"I am from one of the top 15 cities in the world. Buffalo, New York." - TrentEdwardsHoF2018

by Artest4Prez on May 7, 2009 8:14 AM CDT up reply actions

well

he is using a regular elbowing. that’s exactly how you hit someone who is behind you.

Once upon a time the Suns got out on the break... and along came Steve sucKerr

by Murcy on May 7, 2009 5:40 AM CDT up reply actions

he's not putting his arm out like he is fighting for position

Once upon a time the Suns got out on the break... and along came Steve sucKerr

by Murcy on May 7, 2009 5:41 AM CDT up reply actions

Quick Question

How many times does Kobe have to “accidentally” hit someone in the face before you realize they aren’t accidents. The guy is damn good at hiding his cheap shots. As they say, with practice comes perfection.

by seanbergmanrules on May 7, 2009 7:43 AM CDT up reply actions

Not this elbow, but game 1

His double cheap shot attack on Battier in game 1 was by far worse. Had any, I repeat, ANY rocket done that to Kobe, they would not have played yesterday.

And if you don’t think Stern wants an LA/Cleveland final, you are crazy.

by texasag on May 7, 2009 8:05 AM CDT up reply actions

Dirty Team

I am glad that many people are seeing how dirty of a team the Lakers are.

If anyone remembers in Game 1, when Battier and Bryant were battling for the ball on the floor, Bryant shoved him and Battier walked away.

Game 2, Bryant wasn’t fighting for position. It was an intentional elbow — look at his fist. He gets away from a lot of this because he does the act and moves on as if nothing happened.

And Artest did what he had to do. I was waiting for someone to do something. I actually think he was calm. THe Lakers are like a big bully. Look how they laugh at all the fouls — Odom, Fisher and Bryant. They all lsmiled and laughed as if they didn’t do anything.

Artest had to finally step in and say something to the bully. The Rockets were walking away from it, but there comes a time when you draw the line, and Artest did.

by HoustonFan on May 7, 2009 6:23 AM CDT reply actions

Exactly

Any semblance of respect I had for the Lakers is gone. I can even understand a dirty plan in the heat of the moment. But you don’t hit a guy in the face, smirk about it, and high five everyone you can. I don’t care if Fisher has always been a good guy. I don’t care about his family situation. Once you do something terrible, and are openly gleeful about it, you’re a piece of shit.

by seanbergmanrules on May 7, 2009 7:45 AM CDT up reply actions

Rockets let this one get away.

I haven’t seen such a blatant, unnecessary foul in the playoffs since Robert Horry hip checked Steve Nash into the announcers table. (Sorry for the Horry bash here but it’s true) Fisher looked up, saw Scola, and then ran toward him with the express intention of putting him on his back. Absolutely a dirty play. He deserves to be suspended for game 3.

Kobe Bryant threw that elbow on purpose as well. Him and Ron were fighting for position and once Kobe realized that he can never win that battle against Ron, he threw a hard elbow. That elbow could have easily been a bit higher and hit Ron in the face. I don’t expect him to be suspended, but after the elbow to Shane in game 1, he needs to be fined. This was absolutely the wrong time for Ron to get thrown out of the game though.

Von Wafer. Go change your f*cking diaper and just play the damn game. We don’t need crybabies on this team.

Can we get a picture of Yao Ming on the milk carton? Geez man. Fight for position dammit. Stop letting them FRONT you. You know what his problem is? He runs down court and then waits for the other guy to get in front, instead of getting the jump on them and getting into position. And then when he did get the ball, he didn’t want to shoot!!?? WTF??? I know he was in foul trouble and all, but I expect more from Yao.

The time to take this game was after the Fisher ejection. The Rockets PG should have had a field day with Farmar and that other guy who’s name I can’t remember. They better take advantage of them in game 3. Instead they turned the ball over. The game was definitely winnable. They got rattled and unfocused.

What’s sad was, I was going to give props to Fisher and Kobe for stepping up their game, but f*ck that now.

by erod on May 7, 2009 7:59 AM CDT reply actions

Nash accentuated that.

by grungedave on May 7, 2009 9:30 AM CDT up reply actions

Nice

www.TheDreamShake.com Co-Founder and Writer

by UofTOrange on May 7, 2009 9:39 AM CDT up reply actions

On a side note also...

..anybody catch Rafer slapping Eddie House? LMAO…that was hilarious!! Maybe Ron should have slapped Kobe upside the head.

by erod on May 7, 2009 8:01 AM CDT reply actions

i would say that i lost respect for the lakers last night, but that would suggest that i had any respect for them to begin with. kobe bryant is tops. he is a superb athlete. i respect his basketball skills. but, no matter how much the nba displays him in their “where caring happens” campaign, i will never have respect for him as a human being.

is it me, or do the lakers have a bunch of little bitches on their team? vujacic and walton come immediately to mind, and i mean immediately. but they should probably just collectively rename their second squad the little bitch.

and derek fisher?? for shame. i was screaming my ass off at that guy last night, profanely. if he isn’t suspended for, at the very least, one, two games, i think i’ll be just a little upset.

by the grawlrus on May 7, 2009 8:02 AM CDT reply actions

The Rockets (Obviously)

The Lakers have definitely had their share of the dirty work today. I know im biased, but biased only means educated. Im a die-hard Rockets fan growing up in an area near Houston full of bandwagon Lakers fans, so naturally i i have a little respect for the Lakers. Last night, I lost it all. But the one thing I want to address are Shane Battier’s and Luis Scola’s professionalism. We all know that Kobe is a great player. He doesn’t need to prove anything to us. We also know that Battier is a renowned defender. o Kobe should not have acted so immature towards Battier the entire game. I’m 15, and even I could jump to these conclusions. I guarantee that LeBron James and Dwayne Wade, both players I think are much better than Kobe, would not have reacted so immaturely. Arent they also about 5-6 years younger? Kobe, Odom, Walton, and especially Fisher were dirty, and lacked professionalism. On a final note, the Rockets are great for not complaining too much, and keeping the series a series despite the fact the dont have their best player, T-Mac. That fact just seems to slip everyones mind. But im confident in this team and know that they will BEAT LA!

btw, wtf happened with Wafer? Artest didnt seem like the only guy who ditched us when we needed him………

by theking8593 on May 7, 2009 8:05 AM CDT reply actions

If Kobes dumbass wouldn’t have thrown his arms up in the air when Ror Ron went over to him he wouldn’t have been ejected. Kobe made it seem like if something was happening. What a fucking pussy!

How old is he BTW? He was acting like he was playing a street game out there with all his stupid facial expressions after each shot made. He should’ve received a tech for that crap much much earlier in the game. That bastard thinks he a God out there. Yes Kobe, we know he can’t hold you! Stop sucking your own dick, its fucking disgusting! I fucking swear last night I hated the Lakers more than I hate Utah. Thats a very high level of hate.

Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."

by xFenixKnightx on May 7, 2009 8:27 AM CDT reply actions

Kobe is the trash talking punk who always makes sure security is around him to break up the fight.

I wish to god Kobe could run into Artest anywhere but a basketball court. What a shock he would be in when his personal bodyguards found themselves with broken legs and kobes smug face shoved up his own ass……. Strike that, further up his own ass.

by texasag on May 7, 2009 8:31 AM CDT up reply actions

Kobe's problems stem from some blocked emotions.

by texasag on May 7, 2009 8:39 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs

Big LOL on that one!

Rec’d

Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."

by xFenixKnightx on May 7, 2009 8:45 AM CDT reply actions

Fuck Kobe

It is complete horse crap that he can elbow frequently with no course of action taken against him. He is an awesome player, but does not deserve preferential treatment.

It takes a big man to walk away, but a bigger man to break his freaking jaw!

by USMC_Texas on May 7, 2009 8:46 AM CDT reply actions

What a bad post

The words in this post are full of sentiment and lack any kind of objectivity. I am not going to say any of the actions by fisher, Odom an yes, even Kobe were right, and they deserved the punishment they got during the game, but to say that because what he did on the court last night Fisher is all of a sudden a “bad” human being? Or to go to say that Kobe lacks all sorts of sportsmanship? where does that come from? It comes from a fan that is hurt because his team lost last night. that is it, and that is how this post should be taken. Where is the criticism to Mr. Artest? or to Scola for his actions? TOTAL lack of objectivity here. I understand this is a Rockets blog, and how some sort of bias in the arguments made are expected, but there were no points made here, just childish words full of sentiment and hatred written in this post.

by dafete on May 7, 2009 8:46 AM CDT reply actions

well

The criticism of Artest is in the paragraph below. I don’t think Scola did anything warranting criticism. I didn’t call Fisher a bad human being. Get your facts straight and read the entire article. Then feel free to criticize however you please.

The Dream Shake
"I think girls are probably just better shooters." - Steve Novak

by Tom Martin on May 7, 2009 9:30 AM CDT up reply actions

Just a response onf the facts you mention....

Hey Tom, here are some facts that I considered:

“someone who I thought to be a good human being” – —> Means Fisher to you is not a good human being anymore

Scola pulled LO’s shirt, and then kept taking on people’s faces, and wanted to remain arguing after the technicals were called. To me that deserves some criticism.

On the criticism to Artest, you are right, I did read the whole article before my previous post, and realized you criticized his actions….. what I meant to say was that he deserved more criticism than Kobe… (to me, anyway)….

As you can probably tell, I am a laker fan, and a Kobe fan. And I consider Kobe has shown some great sportsmanship and a great work ethic throughout his career….. Or how many people in the world do you think would be able to stand put when someone comes to them like artest did to Kobe last night?…. That shows Kobe is the among the best in the League for more than one reason, and that may be the same reason Artest isn’t at the top.

Also, My criticism goes overall to your post on how passionate it is, which undermines the objectivity required. The word chice, etc…..

But I do thank you for your respectful response, and for acknowledging my comment.

by dafete on May 7, 2009 12:07 PM CDT up reply actions

Kobe was punished?

Don’t recall that happening… Are you talking about the tech he got for the direct taunting of Battier that he’d been doing all game?

You’re obviously entitled to your opinion, but I think there’s been plenty of criticism of Artest’s actions on this, and other, posts – and I can’t say that I remember Scola doing anything that warranted criticism (save for not being absent from the game). I think it’s a stretch to expect the same amount of criticism for Artest/Scola as you’re going to see for Fisher/Kobe/Odom is a stretch, on almost any blog you visit…given the events of the game last night.

by dallastros_fan on May 7, 2009 9:32 AM CDT up reply actions

*being absent from the game

Apologies to TM, posted before seeing your reply…repeated a couple of your points in the process.

by dallastros_fan on May 7, 2009 9:37 AM CDT up reply actions

Kobe got a Technical for talking to Battier

Normally technicals are not give for just talking to someone, obviously the technical Kobe got was because of everything else that was had happened in the game. And I do think the T was well deserved.

by dafete on May 7, 2009 12:11 PM CDT up reply actions

He got a technical for taunting, not talking

Those are not the same things

www.TheDreamShake.com Co-Founder and Writer

by UofTOrange on May 7, 2009 2:16 PM CDT up reply actions

...

What criticism for our players? I criticize our players for 2 things. Getting caught up in the jawing (but at the same time, I can’t say I would be able to stay quiet either) and for playing like crap during important stretches. Our players didn’t throw cheap shots last nite, our players didn’t commit flagrant fouls, and our players for the most part (excluding Von) acted with professionalism and cool heads. What Ron did was dumb. I’ll admit that, but I don’t think he should’ve been thrown out for what he did. Ron was talking, talking aggressively, but still talking. Definitely T-ed up but I don’t know about throwing him out. I understand why they did it, no reason to take risks, but I disagree with the decision. Maybe D-Fish isn’t a terrible human being, but what he did last nite, was a dick move. That’s a major understatement, but the point is, Fisher acted like an asshole.

As for Kobe. He swung upward. Watching the clip, I can’t decide intent. It looks to me like he put something extra on that elbow. Seemed to be malicious but I’ll understand if there is no suspension. It was dirty regardless. Kobe is dirty. He has always been dirty. He does lack sportsmanship. It’s true. He has been a bad sport for a long time. He even treats his teammates like crap. I am not a Kobe fan. Never have been, never will be.

All these boundaries - Africa, Asia, Malaysia, America - are set by men. But you don't have to look at boundaries when you are looking at a man - at the character of a man. The question is: What do you stand for? Are you a follower, or are you a leader? -Hakeem Olajuwon

by SlatonShuffle on May 7, 2009 9:03 AM CDT reply actions

Kobe learned from the best

Looks like Kobe learned some things from Karl Malone. Karl never meant to knee or elbow anybody. He was just going for the ball. I’m sure Lakers fans would still root for Kobe even if he beat up a little girl and stole her candy. They would try to justify it or say “She had it coming”. Winning at all cost is all they care about.

by scum1 on May 7, 2009 9:23 AM CDT reply actions

He did it cause she was a racist.

by texasag on May 7, 2009 9:42 AM CDT up reply actions

please

someone tell me what Ron Artest did that was wrong?
He got elbowed in the throat, and got up in the bully’s face to let him know that he won’t let that happen anymore. No punches thrown, no shoving, no elbows… just jawing.

And since Odom, Walton and Bryant are allowed to “jaw” at other players, why not Ron?

by grungedave on May 7, 2009 9:32 AM CDT reply actions

Any doubt about

Ron’s intentions towards Kobe, the elbow, the game, the series, his team, and anything else you can think of should be erased after the post game interview.

Ron showed alot of class and I earned a great deal of respect for him. Now he just needs to control his emotions better in the heat of the moment.

by Rock Creator on May 7, 2009 9:41 AM CDT up reply actions

I know why he got tossed.

Things were getting out of hand. Ron Artest was involved in a dispute. Joey Crawford had flashbacks of Ron jumping into the stands to beat some ass, freaked out a little and tossed him. It’s as simple as that.

Do I agree with it? No, but it’s the kind of treatment that Ron Artest and Stephen Jackson (but apparently not Jermaine O’Neal) are going to have to deal with for the rest of their careers.

"I am from one of the top 15 cities in the world. Buffalo, New York." - TrentEdwardsHoF2018

by Artest4Prez on May 7, 2009 9:43 AM CDT up reply actions

So why not stop him half way?

Why watch it happen and THEN decide to jump in?

And while we’re on it, how has no one brought up Crawford shoving Scola? And then shoving Ron?

www.TheDreamShake.com Co-Founder and Writer

by UofTOrange on May 7, 2009 9:47 AM CDT up reply actions

Why he was thrown out....

Because they through out Fisher. So to even the sides, the next Rocket that did anything technical worthy would also be thrown out.

Remember who we are talking about here, the guy that tossed Tim Duncan for giggling. I mean, Tim puppydogeyes Duncan. Everybody heres Duncan’s name and instantly thinks what a trouble maker.

Crawford has always reffed based on more emotions and personal feelings that what is technically in the rule book. The thing that dumbfounds me is how does he still have a job.

by texasag on May 7, 2009 9:45 AM CDT up reply actions

Ron did EXACTLY what he was supposed to do

That ejection is on Joey Crawford. He literally watched Ron walk all the way across the court, stood there and let him get in Kobe’s face and THEN decided to break it up. Crawford wanted Artest gone, it’s really that simple. That’s not a conspiracy theory, it’s just the way it is.

Ron has to show Kobe that what he did was not okay. It brought this whole thing to light. If he hadn’t gotten in Kobe’s face the elbow would have been downplayed by the media. Ron was calm and collected. It was a calculated move and I beleive it was the right one. If Joey Crawford had done his job then he would have stopped Ron part way. T’d him up and let the game go on.

www.TheDreamShake.com Co-Founder and Writer

by UofTOrange on May 7, 2009 9:46 AM CDT up reply actions

A hard foul would have been better

Nothing like Fisher, but something to let him know that you don’t f*ck with Ron Artest.

by erod on May 7, 2009 10:19 AM CDT up reply actions

Ya, but that WOULD have warranted getting tossed

What Ron did was show him that he’s not going to back down. He’s not going to stoop to Kobe’s level, but he’s not going to back down either

www.TheDreamShake.com Co-Founder and Writer

by UofTOrange on May 7, 2009 11:11 AM CDT up reply actions

“Ron’s decision to put himself over his teammates was a horrible decision. He could have accepted the foul and moved on, satisfied or unsatisfied.”

While I can see it from your side, I can also see it the other way too. At some point you realize that certain things are happening that will not allow you to win the game no matter what you do. If you can get elbowed in the neck and get a foul called on you at the same time… you realize that you are not playing 5 on 5, you are playing 5 on 8.

Doesn’t matter how well you play, you will not beat another team AND the refs at the same time.

by JTS10 on May 7, 2009 9:51 AM CDT reply actions

Remember at the end of semesters in college, you got to rate your teacher/instructor/professor? How are the refs graded?

The teams should be able to rank the refs on how they feel about the job they do. Before a series starts the Rockets give a list of 10 to 20 refs they think do a fair job, and the Lakers do the same. The NBA checks the lists and see which names match on both lists and how high up they are and those are the refs they use (unless they are reffing other games).

by JTS10 on May 7, 2009 9:55 AM CDT reply actions

Plain and simple

Joey Crawford should not be reffing NBA playoff games.

by scum1 on May 7, 2009 10:02 AM CDT reply actions

Ron should have known better

Given the direction of the game with the previous techs and trash talk between Scola, Odom, Walton, and Fisher, I think the refs were well within their rights to throw Ron out of the game. I think if the previous incidents had not occurred then Ron would have simply gotten a technical. They had to take control somehow and a low tolerance for that type of behavior was needed. I agree with the refs here. Ron should have known that he had a good chance of getting thrown out.

by erod on May 7, 2009 10:18 AM CDT reply actions

The Rockets were likely going to lose that game regardless

I guarantee you that is in Kobe’s head the rest of the way

www.TheDreamShake.com Co-Founder and Writer

by UofTOrange on May 7, 2009 10:19 AM CDT up reply actions

I disagree

He’s definitely not in Kobe’s head at all. I think it’s more the other way around. Kobe knows he’s can get away with murder (or rape..lol). He’s the NBA poster child. This is a losing battle for Ron Artest and the Rockets (not the series but getting the refs and league to fairly evaluate Kobe’s “physical” play).

I don’t mind players talking back or giving hard fouls(within limits of course) to let the other team know they’re not going to get punked. But you have to be smart about it. Ron Artest was not smart about it.

In the future, let that fool get in the paint and then let him know that no layups are allowed.

by erod on May 7, 2009 10:25 AM CDT up reply actions

Why don't you let Kobe guard Artest, see what happens then.

and I quote, "I told him (Kobe), ‘You’re hitting the wrong person. Don’t you know you’re hitting Ron Artest?’"

by texasag on May 7, 2009 10:44 AM CDT up reply actions

Kobe is actually a pretty good defender

by erod on May 7, 2009 10:46 AM CDT up reply actions

He's an excellent defender

But loses interest a lot in it

www.TheDreamShake.com Co-Founder and Writer

by UofTOrange on May 7, 2009 11:12 AM CDT up reply actions

LOL

Let Ron drive on Kobe. Kobe will end up on the ground every single time.

by texasag on May 7, 2009 12:51 PM CDT up reply actions

I see it differently

Kobe now thinks he can cheap shot people. The league is only going to be paying attention to it BECAUSE of what Ron did. So he no longer can do that this series. I guarantee he gets a tech or tossed if he throws another one. And it’s all because Ron made the referees and the league office pay attention to it.

Ron did what he was supposed to do, I completely stand by that.

www.TheDreamShake.com Co-Founder and Writer

by UofTOrange on May 7, 2009 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs

Rec'd

Mother fricken right! Hopefully =/

Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."

by xFenixKnightx on May 7, 2009 12:11 PM CDT up reply actions

WHAT

So now the rules state that you increase penalties for fouls if the game is getting tough?

I guess Joey Crawford has a different rule book that EVERY OTHER FUCKING COMPETENT ref in the game.

by texasag on May 7, 2009 10:33 AM CDT up reply actions

The rules are clear

When it comes to conduct, the referees have full discretion there.

by erod on May 7, 2009 10:50 AM CDT up reply actions

So when crawford kicked out Duncan

Why was he penalized so much, could it be cause it was a completely ridiculous call.

by texasag on May 7, 2009 12:53 PM CDT up reply actions

Kobe's....

a little bi**h when’s he’s A) getting out musclesd by ron ron and battier (game 1) and B) when things arent going his way. i will not doubt kobes talent, but to act like a little kid when he doesnt get candy is pretty sad to see. and i agree, i would like to see kobe on ron, show him whos really the more physical player.

by kg_2005 on May 7, 2009 10:52 AM CDT reply actions

Definitely agree with you

His skills are undeniable. He is definitely the best player in the league and one of the greats of all time. It’s just sad that his sportsmanship is pretty much 0. You would think he would be more humble. He really lacks maturity.

by erod on May 7, 2009 11:07 AM CDT up reply actions

Kinda like when your teams loses

As a fan you start whining and complaining about officiating.

by Gils_Keloids on May 7, 2009 11:24 AM CDT up reply actions

Might be true...

If I actually complained about the refs..which I havent done….

by erod on May 7, 2009 11:31 AM CDT up reply actions

Portland fan checking back in

Way to stand up to the Fakers, Rockets! I love Artest gettin in Kobe’s grill, by league rules Kobe definitely deserves to get suspended, but David Stern is a douche bag and won’t do it. Derek Fisher has now joined Kobe as an absolute piece of shit.

As for Von Wafer, that’s why we didn’t keep him in Portland! And the fact that his career assist total is probably about 2

by Cvd2312 on May 7, 2009 11:19 AM CDT reply actions

I haven't seen people this upset

Since Tamara Grey got kicked off of American Idol!

by Gils_Keloids on May 7, 2009 11:25 AM CDT reply actions

Foul Disparity

How can you be complaining about a foul disparity when the Rockets shot more free throws than the Lakers last night? In general, I don’t see how Rocket fans can complain about the refs — you shot ten more free throws than the Lakers in Game 1 and three more in Game 2, and Battier has openly stated that the Rockets’ strategy is to win at the foul line — hardly a smart tactic if you think the refs are biased against you. As for the Kobe elbow, this is what your patron at TrueHoop had to say: “My best guess, from looking at the video and freeze frames of it, is that Bryant did not get Artest above the shoulders.” Hardly a miscarriage of justice.

by Felix94105 on May 7, 2009 12:06 PM CDT reply actions

The Lakers are a jump shooting team, the Rockets aren't

There is your foul disparity. Seriously, am I taking crazy pills? Think before you react people

www.TheDreamShake.com Co-Founder and Writer

by UofTOrange on May 7, 2009 2:20 PM CDT up reply actions

You're Wrong

The Lakers were 8th in free throws attempted this season, the Rockets were 21st. The Lakers shot a higher field goal percentage, and the Rockets took more 3 point attempts. This is not a jump shot versus non jump shot issue. When you shoot that many more free throws than your opponent while playing on their floor, you have nothing to complaint about when it comes to the refs. So maybe you are taking crazy pills.

by Felix94105 on May 7, 2009 4:08 PM CDT up reply actions

You did not adjust for pace

Nice try though

The Rockets simply do not draw fouls. Regardless of being 21st in drawing them, they commit even less

www.TheDreamShake.com Co-Founder and Writer

by UofTOrange on May 7, 2009 4:45 PM CDT up reply actions

Fine, Let's Adjust For Pace

Rockets average 92.7 possessions a game, and take 23.2 FTs a game. Lakers average 96.9 possessions a game, and take 25.5 FTs a game. If you adjust Houston’s pace up to match the Lakers, it’s still only 24.2 FTs, which is still less than the Lakers. The notion that the Lakers are just jump shooters who don’t get a lot of FTs just doesn’t comport with the facts.

But really, the larger point is that I don’t see how one can complain about a “disparity” in FTs when you actually took more of them during the game.

by Felix94105 on May 7, 2009 5:02 PM CDT up reply actions

Show all the statistics

Does the fact that the Rockets average 18.9 fouls per game and the lakers average 20.7 count for anything? The only team committing fewer fouls are the spurs, another defensive team.

by texasag on May 7, 2009 5:23 PM CDT up reply actions

Suit yourself

If you want to use that stat, but adjusting for pace, as UofTOrange suggests, then the Rockets average 19.7 fouls a game versus 20.7 for the Lakers. One foul per game difference. So the point remains, if the Rockets have taken 13 more free throws over two games — on the road — what is there to complain about?

by Felix94105 on May 7, 2009 5:33 PM CDT up reply actions

You are bordering silly man

No one that I can see has blamed A LOSS on the refs. They are saying the refs put BOTH of our teams in a shitty/dangerous position. The Lakers won they game, they were assisted by some bush league tactics, but overall their energy was better for the majority of the game. And though Kobe worked his ass off for it (he won’t do that the whole series) he was on absolute fire for the game.

And you forgot that the Lakers were fouling to end Game 1, so that skews it even more.

www.TheDreamShake.com Co-Founder and Writer

by UofTOrange on May 7, 2009 9:32 PM CDT up reply actions

I Don't Get It

Ok, first of all, nowhere have I claimed that Rocket fans are blaming their loss on the refs. I was focused on something very specific; the original post made this reference — “As for the foul disparity, it was expected.” As a Laker fan, I didn’t understand the reference to a foul discrepancy when the Rockets shot more free throws, Carl Landry basically lived at the line in the 2nd quarter and was literally outscoring the Lakers by himself, and the Lakers got into the penalty in the 4th quarter in less than four minutes. By talking about some sort of “discrepancy” in the fouls, the implication was that the Lakers were getting the better of it, and I didn’t see that at all. That’s all I was pointing out.

Incidentally, I’ve tried to be as intensively factual as possible in making my arguments, and not be inflammatory in my writing. I don’t understand the accusations that I don’t think before I post, or saying that I’m bordering on silly, or talking about “crazy pills.” Is this how opposing viewpoints are always treated on this site? If you want to disagree, fine, but why all the ad hominem?

by Felix94105 on May 8, 2009 12:20 PM CDT up reply actions

My point was clear

The Rocket in general are not a fouling team. They play exceptional, hard nosed defense without fouling all season. Frankly, it wasn’t just you that was directed at, I’m sick of seeing this same argument over and over this season and in the playoffs. This is who the Rockets have been all season.

Carl Landry getting fouls is a poor point. All he does is jump and take it to the basket. Of course he is drawing fouls on offense.

You can’t say “what is there to complain about?” and not expect me to think you are saying we are complaining because we lost. We’re complaining because of exactly what I said: “They are saying the refs put BOTH of our teams in a shitty/dangerous position.”

And to be completely upfront, I thought you were the same guy as “Felix” so I thought you were trolling. I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt here though.

It makes absolute sense that the Rockets have drawn more fouls in the series than they have given up, it’s really that simple. Fouls are not the only thing the referees control, I think you know that. So you can’t assume that only because of this that fans aren’t going to be upset at referees that allowed the ridiculousness of the 3rd/4th quarter to happen

www.TheDreamShake.com Co-Founder and Writer

by UofTOrange on May 8, 2009 3:16 PM CDT up reply actions

That's Fine

It’s not every day I get mistaken for another Felix. There’s not that many of us around.

For what it’s worth, the Rockets are my second favorite team — I’m Chinese American and Yao Ming is my favorite non-Laker player (the losses to Utah, and especially Game 7 against Dallas, just killed me). If you guys take us out I’m fully expecting you to win it all.

by Felix94105 on May 8, 2009 4:51 PM CDT up reply actions

Wait, so he's guessing

And Artest is saying it happened. I’m taking the first hand account

www.TheDreamShake.com Co-Founder and Writer

by UofTOrange on May 7, 2009 2:20 PM CDT up reply actions

Seriously?

You think Artest is an objective and reliable source? I cited TrueHoop cause Abbott is a Blazers fan who doesn’t have a bias, and painstakingly went through both the photos and videos to come to his conclusion. Maybe you also believe Artest’s story he told after the game that he played in a game where someone threw a chair leg through a player’s heart and killed them on the Court?

by Felix94105 on May 7, 2009 4:15 PM CDT up reply actions

Yes, seriously

It’s one guys opinion basing it off inconclusive facts.

Notice, I never said he hit him in the throat, I’m mad he threw an elbow, not where he threw it

www.TheDreamShake.com Co-Founder and Writer

by UofTOrange on May 7, 2009 4:46 PM CDT up reply actions

Ok

I’ll grant that a foul should have been called on Kobe. But the placement of the elbow matters, since everyone is citing to the rule about elbows above the shoulders being automatic suspensions. Plus, if Kobe didn’t hit him in the throat, but Artest kept clutching his throat and claiming that it was, then it’s just an acting job trying to make it worse than it was.

And I guess I was wrong about the Artest story, though he only would have been 12 years old at the time.

by Felix94105 on May 7, 2009 5:06 PM CDT up reply actions

Go to ESPN

There is a nice hi-def replay of the elbow.

Artest has his left arm over Kobe’s shoulder. Kobe jerks back and up at artest. It catches him across his collar bone at an angle.
So no it comes down to semantics of where the neck begins exactly and how much arm must hit the neck.

I would assume that the fact he recieved a flagrant 1, there must be some pretty close contact there with the neckage area. Not a flagrant 2 obviously because he didn’t look behind him, set his feet, and then lunge backwards at an argentine.

by texasag on May 7, 2009 5:27 PM CDT up reply actions

You guys

Where are you seeing Kobe’s elbow connect with Artest’s throat? Point it out to me, I’m not seeing it.

I see an elbow thrown, no doubt about that. I see no upward angle of his arm, it was straight back, into Artest’s chest area. That’s not a suspension.

How is Kobe the face of the NBA? Isn’t that LeBron? People always seem to have a personal beef with this guy who they’ve never met before in their life.

Do you guys just hate confident players? You hate good players? Intense, passionate players? Competitive players? Not sure I understand where all this hate is coming from.

I see why you guys would be mad that Kobe backed away, instead of punching Ron in the face. That would have warranted a certain suspension. But instead Kobe was smart about it, and backed away. Yeah, he’s a horrible human being for doing that.

He’s also a horrible human being for showing some confidence in himself. He’s also despicable for throwing an elbow in a contact sport, like millions of athletes have done before him.

by lalball81 on May 7, 2009 12:20 PM CDT reply actions

I guess he is confident

Confident he won’t get called for throwing elbows and kneeing people in the head? Maybe it was not in the throat but it was still thrown. I’m fine with some physical play but the Lakers crossed the line. I am sure Fisher is just confident as well right.

by scum1 on May 7, 2009 12:49 PM CDT up reply actions

I hate SMUG players

And noone is worse than Kobe.

Actually, I hate all smug people, guess thats why I am not a fan of LA.

by texasag on May 7, 2009 12:55 PM CDT up reply actions

Also, Kobe is not stupid

You do not punch Ron Artest in the face.

by texasag on May 7, 2009 12:56 PM CDT up reply actions

Sheridan over at ESPN

Says that on the replay not showed online, Bryant’s elbow appears to connect with Artest’s chest, right above the H in Houston.

Nope, that’s not his throat. You guys missed one there.

by lalball81 on May 7, 2009 12:21 PM CDT reply actions

who gives a shit?

the elbow was thrown in the general direction of the face- with malice. The intent was there. The NBA and Bryant are lucky it didn’t connect with Artest’s face. Stop the apologies.

by bubblescreen on May 7, 2009 12:51 PM CDT up reply actions

So then show us that replay

I thought I saw that he wasn’t sure, not that he knew that for a fact. And the way Ron was angled, with a poor quality video it could have easily slid up to his throat and Sheridan not seen it.

Either way, it was a dirty, pathetic play by a guy that I actually respect in Kobe.

www.TheDreamShake.com Co-Founder and Writer

by UofTOrange on May 7, 2009 2:22 PM CDT up reply actions

really? youre going to believe a ESPN talking head about what they saw (or didnt see)? Those talking heads only say what the higher ups tell them to, you really think they are going to turn there backs on a guy they brown nose every single season?

What the Bowen giveth Horry taketh away. --LatinD (2008 Playoffs Round 2, Game 1)

the Spurs do not defeat you so much as they grind you into tiny shards of psychological wreckage.
-the Denver Post

by Hamer_SpursFan on May 7, 2009 3:13 PM CDT up reply actions

replace face with throat.

by bubblescreen on May 7, 2009 12:52 PM CDT reply actions

ARTEST IS DIRTY AS HELL

How does noone else see this. Watch the replay again.

You can blatantly see the viscious throat attack on Kobe. Artest is lucky he didn’t seriously hurt Kobe’s elbow with that terrible throat lashing.

by texasag on May 7, 2009 12:58 PM CDT reply actions

Artest post game interview

If anyone saw the 3-5 minute post game interview that Artest gave, I’m sure the “I saw a guy get killed with a table leg” story might have made you think twice if he was being for real. I certainly did. How wrong I was. Granted Ron was 12 at the time, but can’t say I don’t believe him anymore.

http://www.nytimes.com/1991/04/15/nyregion/player-dies-in-stabbing-at-basketball-game.html

Not sure if yall already had this posted somewhere, but thought i’d throw it here. Good luck in the series, guys.

What the Bowen giveth Horry taketh away. --LatinD (2008 Playoffs Round 2, Game 1)

the Spurs do not defeat you so much as they grind you into tiny shards of psychological wreckage.
-the Denver Post

by Hamer_SpursFan on May 7, 2009 3:17 PM CDT reply actions

That's just fabricated

That was fabricated 18 years ago so that Artest could lie about it yesterday. Don’t you understand laker fan mentality.

by texasag on May 7, 2009 5:28 PM CDT up reply actions

Enjoyed the recap Tom

Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....

No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....

by pookeyguru on May 7, 2009 6:01 PM CDT reply actions