A letter to Kobe Bryant
by grungedave on May 7, 2009 12:30 PM CDT
in Random Commentary
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PrintDear Kobe Bryant,
I will begin by saying I am a fan. A huge fan. It is safe to say that you are my favorite non-Houston Rockets player in the NBA (at least now that Robert Horry is on involuntary retirement). I mean, come on, you share a middle name with Kurt Cobain’s kid… how awesome is that?
I’ve been a supporter of yours since you were drafted out of Lower Merion in 1996. I’ve defended you through all of your trials and tribulations: the air-balls in Utah, the feuding with Shaq, the Colorado incident, the Rudy T experiment, and even the disappointment of last year’s NBA Finals. I’ve followed you through all of it. When people have called you "selfish" I countered by saying you just want to win more than the other guys. When they called you "aloof" I tried to explain that you were an 18 year old in an older man’s world. When you were being attacked by Shaquille O’Neal, I simply chalked that up to jealousy. I thought I understood.
That brings me to today’s point though – what happened to you?
I watched last night’s game and I cringed. First, I cringed because you were tearing up my team on the court by putting the ball in the basket in ways that LeBron James could never dream of. The Rockets played great defense and it did not even slow you down. I was awestruck at how your could do whatever you wanted on the court. But then I cringed because your dark side showed up again. I do not know how you can explain your recent predilection for throwing elbows and taking cheap shots.
I realize that Ron Artest and Shane Battier frustrate you. They play hard, physical basketball. I’m sure that you want to retaliate. I also know that basketball is a contact sport, regardless of what our mothers told us when we started playing as kids at the YMCA. Boxing out, setting hard picks, diving for loose balls… this is all part of the game. It does not give you carte blanche to start tossing errant elbows above an opponent’s shoulders.
Now, if your rationale was that it’s just Ron Artest and he had it coming to him, whatever. But how does that explain you tackling Shane Battier on Monday night and then trying to throw a concealed elbow to his rib cage? Even worse – when Shane got up, you tried to initiate a trash-talking battle with him. Why? Were you trying to rattle Shane? Rile him up? We both know that’s not going to work. Shane is going to just walk away. Apparently, he’s just a better person than you.
The worst part is that these two incidents are not isolated. They are just two more in a long line of recent "cheap shot by Kobe Bryant" incidents. Or do I need to bring Mike Bibby, Raja Bell and a host of others in to testify to this point?
Kobe, you are better than this.
You are the best basketball player in the NBA. You are the poster boy for the league. There is no need to resort to cheap shots and dirty play. Rise above it. I know it’s lonely at the top, but you do yourself a disservice by giving everyone the ammunition to call you a "dirty player." Then again, maybe you’ve always been this way. Maybe I’ve just been blinded by your talent and charisma all these years. This makes me sad. Because I do not see any need for you to resort to this.
I know it’s never been easy for you. For all your talent, you’ve had critics from the start. Even your own teammates were jealous. Shaquille O’Neal was a veteran who acted like a 14 year old (and still does). Meanwhile, you were a 17 year old who had the maturity of a 30 year old veteran. Yet no one gave you credit for that. When you won three championships in a row, most of the accolades went to Shaq. He would show up to camp fat and out of shape. You would show up in better shape than anyone. After the trade to Miami, he even compared you to Sonny Corleone. A total backhanded cheap shot, I know. But, hey, at least you aren’t Penny Hardaway! Have some perspective.
I guess my real problem is that the kid that looked like he was having so much fun playing basketball has become a 30 year old man who always acts like the world conspires against him. When faced with adversity, you used to be able to laugh it off and just play. Now, you whine and cry. You cuss out your opponents with regularity. You trash-talk lesser players. You throw elbows with a message behind them. It’s simply not necessary. It makes me question why I’ve been a fan all these years. Have I been wrong in supporting you all this time?
In the end, there is one simple message I’m trying to get across to you, Kobe:
Stop being a whiny, petulant brat and just play basketball.
Please heed my advice. For my fandom is at stake here.
Sincerely,
David
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Dave, he's always been like this.
It’s nothing new.
Face it – the Kurt Cobain thing, liking Kobe – you just have a thing for unlikable shit.
It's true
He’s played like this since forever.
Except, where you categorize it as cheap and dirty, I call it “professional basketball 101”. There are things you do if the referees don’t call the game a certain way, an elbow to the chest is one of them. Kobe was not alone in being aggressive, Artest certainly beats up opposing players with his brand of play.
And when Kobe has crossed the line with his tactics, he has been suspended. Remember the all the suspensions for “unnatural non-basketball movements”? What about chopping Mike Miller? He’s been hit plenty by the league when he is out of line. This was not one of those times.
It's a pattern of behavoir by Kobe
And please don’t give me the professional basketball player bs. Kobe threw that elbow with malice and having no idea where it might land. Say it catches Artest in the face and seriously hurts him? That’s professional to you? Attempting to hurt another player is unsportsmanlike, against the spirit of competition, and plain cowardice. How you can attempt to defend him is ridiculous
Is there any other reason to throw a blind elbow?
Whether he had the side intention of boxing him out is irrelevant. Throwing a blind elbow will ALWAYS be malicious. Is that really up for debate?
How malicious are we talking?
It was mean to sting him, not disable him.
There is a difference.
And yes, it’s not right, and it’s not cool, even to sting.
But there is a difference.
You know what, it doesn't even matter. Malicious is just that, malicisous
I tell my 2 year old all the time to pay attention to how he treats his younger brother. Just because he thinks grabbing him won’t hurt him doesn’t mean it won’t. I bring it up because throwing elbows like this is childish, regardless of intent. It’s the same thing with Fisher. Okay, he’s trying to send a message. What if Scola had slipped going into that and he caved in his face? You just can’t do that stuff, period. It’s not part of basketball.
www.TheDreamShake.com Co-Founder and Writer
That's a little bit naive
These are grown men playing basketball.
I’m used to think that way, but what they’re playing is not the same brand of basketball we play at the local gym. My friend who played college basketball (as a bench scrub) convinced me otherwise. It’s brutal out there, and you get beat up all game, by guys willing to take away your livelihood.
After reading grungdaves letter Kobe thought long and hard. He looked at himself in the mirror, a tear rolling own his cheek. Kobe, was saddened by this letter. Had he turned into something he himself hated? At that moment Kobe had an idea. He then went to grungedaves house and rang the doorbell. As soon as the door opened Kobe preceded to elbow him in the throat until he deleted the post from the blog. :’(
True story, yeah.
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
by xFenixKnightx on May 7, 2009 12:50 PM CDT reply actions 5 recs
;)
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
by xFenixKnightx on May 7, 2009 1:15 PM CDT up reply actions
Just like Gilbert Arenas getting into the Playoffs didnt happen. :)
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
by xFenixKnightx on May 7, 2009 1:34 PM CDT up reply actions
Delusional fan is delusional.
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
by xFenixKnightx on May 7, 2009 1:39 PM CDT up reply actions
Kobe is a thug
Hopefully he’ll become bad Kobe the rest of the series. Firing up ridiculous shots and not passing….
Proud member of Duck nation!
Oh please
I’m not advocating throwing elbows. if a player breaks the rules, he needs to face the consequences (ejection, fine, suspension, whatever). If the league suspends Kobe, so be it.
However, your piece just rubs me the wrong way. Artest can run into the stands and punch fans but that’s all water under the bridge since he’s now on your team. Kobe plays aggressive and he loses your respect.
With respect to talking trash, I’m sorry but trash-talking is part of the game. Always has been always will be….just ask Bird, Payton, and some fellow named MJ.
Please, get off your high-horse belfore you fall off and hurt yourself.
Really?
Coop, show me the part of the letter where he said he was going to replace the Kobe poster with a Ron one… Cooooome OOON! Dave calls him Crazy Pills if you haven’t noticed… I think most Rockets fans see Ron for what he is: a volitile but talented player who may embarass the team at any time… It’s OK to love the crazy kid on the play ground, because he’s crazy.. Kobe isn’t crazy, he’s just an asshole… So why don’t YOU get off YOUR high horse? As for trash talk, what he was saying is that Kobe used to have fun in the game, but now he acts like an arrogant jerk… I didn’t see him debating the place of trash talking in basketball…
by 34forDreaming on May 7, 2009 12:56 PM CDT up reply actions
also
If you want to discuss Artest’s actions in Detroit… please tell me what he did wrong?
Someone throws a beer at me and we are going to fight. I may not win, but I’m not going to sit there and take it. No fucking way.
Definitely with ya on that one
That’s the only regret I think Artest should have as well. An idiot throws beer at me and I’m knocking his ass out and I might try to kill him. I am a jerk though.
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Fair enough
Evil Cowtown Inc: Screwin' Suckaz over since Nineteen Eighty-Five.....
No mistakes in the tango, darling. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I sort of agree
Say you’re at dinner with your wife and some dude throws a beer at you. What do you do? Naturally, you cave his head in. However, that same logic doesn’t transfer over to an NBA game where a player runs into the stands. I’m sorry, it just doesn’t.
Ron Ron don't care about Logic
He cares about Justice!
by Gils_Keloids on May 7, 2009 1:38 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Spot on!
You can see it in the way he reacts to everything. He doesn’t mind taking a hard hit, if it is within the rules of the game. He doesn’t care if you talk bad about him, it’s free speech.
But if you throw beer on him you are crossing the line in his mind. You need punished.
If you throw elbows at people’s necks (whether it tagged him there or not, it is as dangerous as punching someone in the face) you are crossing the line in his mind. You need punished.
To him, Justice appears to be more important than professionalism, revenge, or even his own material future.
But of course, you said it better than I did.
I think one of most telling things about Artest
No matter where he has played, no matter how crazy he has been, his teammates have always loved him and had his back. When he went into the stands in Detriot, all his teammates had his back…Stephen Jackson, Jermaine O’Neal, even Reggie Miller was trying to protect me.
You will never find a teammate speak poorly of Ron Artest. You can find about 20 that will speak poorly about Kobe as a person and a teammate.
“even Reggie Miller was trying to protect me”
I think you just gave up your screen name, Ron.
by seanbergmanrules on May 7, 2009 3:40 PM CDT up reply actions
Agree to a point
I agree about the trash talking. It’s part of the game.
But trying to turn this into an Artest-hating reply? I don’t get it. Artest has been playing great for the last few seasons, keeping his cool and trying to turn his image around. What happened in Detroit happened on a Pacers team, not a Rockets team.
So in other words, I don’t get your reply outside of the trash talking comments.
Not hating on Artest
The piece seemed too heavy handed for me, that’s all. As for Artest, I don’t hate him. In fact, I think the current Artest adds a lot of excitement to the game. I just wished he picked L.A. instead of Houston.
Completely agree on Artest.
For his actions he was suspended an unprecedented amount of time.
So we will call it water under the bridge if you suspend Kobe for the next game. By your logic of course.
So ok, let's suspend Kobe for the rest of the series.
It still won’t match what Artest got for reacting to someone assaulting him (yes, throwing a beer on someone is an assault).
Go to the light. Go to the light...
Artest shoudln't have done what he did
But he did. He fulfilled his punishment and he’s grown up since then.
I wasn't suggesting the reaction from the league was wrong.
It was necessary to preserve the integrity of the league. I am suggesting that if some guy did that to him in a bar, and Ron punched his lights out, nothing much would have happened legally speaking.
Go to the light. Go to the light...
Waste of Time - You need a life
This letter doesn’t deserve the time to be read by Bryant.
Nonsense.
We believe Kobe should be given some more free time :)
by 34forDreaming on May 7, 2009 1:10 PM CDT up reply actions
Kobe doesn't have the time for you either.
He’s above us all. In a world of only himself.
Go to the light. Go to the light...
I don’t need Kobe’s time. I just need the Lakers to win. I don’t get personal attachments to players.
Move along then. Nothing to see here.
Because nothing should motivate you to post on a Rockets board.
Go to the light. Go to the light...
so it’s a business to you? What’s the point of watching people you don’t care about?
by 34forDreaming on May 7, 2009 1:13 PM CDT up reply actions
I care about the TEAM….who ever makes up the TEAM…as a whole unit.
If Kobe went to another team, I would continue to root for the Lakers.
If Artest all of a sudden became a Laker, then he’s aprt of the team I support.
If Bryant became a Rocket, then he would be part of a team a don’t support.
So…I only care about the Lakers as a team….whoever makes up that team.
So why all the Kobe business from you, then?
Can’t keep your story straight, can you?
Next.
Go to the light. Go to the light...
Ok, to not use colloquial phrases.
Your
Points
Are
Inconsistent
And
Slightly
Incoherent
Go to the light. Go to the light...
I know you are, but what am I?
Always go with the classics, I say.
Go to the light. Go to the light...
So if someone on your team got smacked by someone on my team in an obvious malicious move, wouldn’t you defend them and call for the other player to be disciplined?
by 34forDreaming on May 7, 2009 1:20 PM CDT up reply actions
but that’s the thing they DON’T! Maybe if you were a fan of a team like Memphis, or Oklahoma, or many others you would finally see what we see…
by 34forDreaming on May 7, 2009 1:23 PM CDT up reply actions
They are just humans…they make mistakes like the rest of us do. Just give it a rest and enjoy the games.
It’s hard to enjoy something that is rigged against you… Kobe ALWAYS gets a pass… Hell, they called a foul on Ron! Until I see the league treat players fairly, I will continue to complain… I think it’s my right and I think I’m right…
by 34forDreaming on May 7, 2009 1:28 PM CDT up reply actions
I understand. It’s hard to accept when you lose. Human inclination is to find excuses instead of acceptance to reality. It’s understandable.
Sure, you have your rights to complain…who’s stopping you?
But we won game one and I was saying the same thing… So.. that’s lame of you to say…
by 34forDreaming on May 7, 2009 1:34 PM CDT up reply actions
But why stress over something you have no control of?
We tend to see faults in others but not ourselves.
gee thanks Doctor….. (roll)
Because if enough people come to their senses, change can be realized…
If you want to hear some objectivity from me, fine: Ron shouldn’t have run accross the court…. OK I can’t think of anything else… face the facts: Kobe has thrown bows in two consecutive games with the intent to send a message to the opposing team’s players…
by 34forDreaming on May 7, 2009 1:41 PM CDT up reply actions
I suggest you look at all the other elbows and knees of the rest of the league as well. It seems like since Kobe is a superstar, so much attention is on him that people scrutinize him for everything. That itself is already unfair.
The scrutiny you are noticing comes because HE’S NOT HELD ACCOUNTABLE! If they would have called a tech in the game (as they should have) this conversation would not be taking place… This all seems so obvious! Even your arguements support what I’m saying (along with the facts)… Kobe gets this negative attention because it is deserved… I don’t see conversations like this about the best player in the league, Lebron… Why not? Because he doesn’t sling malicious bows at people.
by 34forDreaming on May 7, 2009 1:49 PM CDT up reply actions
I’m done… You go on with your blinders on… You are lucky to be a lakers fan…
by 34forDreaming on May 7, 2009 1:51 PM CDT up reply actions
Because Lebron hasn’t won any championships yet. He’s a baby still.
Wait until his team dominates year in year out….it will eventually get to people’s nerves.
Jealousy is the foundation of all this.
damn it.........
well, I can’t sit here and let you call me jealous… You don’t know me… This is NOT about jealousy, it is about fairness and justice… It’s about two teams being able to play under the same rules. It about one player getting away with assualt while another get’s ejected for nothing… Get over yourself… I thought we were actually having a good back and forth, but you clearly are speaking down to me from perceived high ground… Humble yourself… This is about ONE player who abuses the leagues dependence on him for rating and more money.
by 34forDreaming on May 7, 2009 1:58 PM CDT up reply actions
Really? No shit?
Again with the life lessons? Jeeze man.. I’m an adult, I don’t need the couch talk from you..
Correct, life isn’t fair. Having said that, it is supposed to be the roll of the officials and admin to make the game as fair as possible… They fail at this because different players are treated differently to support profits.
by 34forDreaming on May 7, 2009 2:05 PM CDT up reply actions
THERE'S A FUCKING TREND!
Hey retard, when the unfairness always goes in the favor of one party, it’s not a simple mistake…
by 34forDreaming on May 7, 2009 2:08 PM CDT up reply actions
THIS IS NOT ABOUT THE LOSS!
I complained with equal fervor about the cheap shot from Bryant after game 1, a rockets VICTORY! You are an idiot…
by 34forDreaming on May 7, 2009 1:59 PM CDT up reply actions
LOL!
Dude, you weren’t an idiot to me until you started in with the lunacy:
1) You sink to calling me jealous…
2) You then say I’m just mad because we lost….
Both easily refuted… It may be time for you to look inward instead of looking down at people.
by 34forDreaming on May 7, 2009 2:03 PM CDT up reply actions
Don’t just address #1 in some ethereal way.. Address my second point.. How can you say this is me mad about loosing when I was equally angry about the cheap shot in game 1?
by 34forDreaming on May 7, 2009 2:55 PM CDT up reply actions
Sorry
He’s just such a typical LA douche bag and I’m fed up….
by 34forDreaming on May 7, 2009 2:06 PM CDT up reply actions
and fake
:P
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
by xFenixKnightx on May 7, 2009 2:22 PM CDT up reply actions
i dont think youd be saying this stuff if it went the other way.
actually most of the people here wouldnt be consistent either. but as good as a franchise LA has been, the current squad is full of douchebags.
I'll snap yo neck like a twig if you sass me again. . .
by Duhoh on May 7, 2009 1:24 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
And Kobe cares…he always on the NBA cares commercials. You guys should form a group of superfriends because you both care sooooooo much.
Im pretty sure every player has been on an NBA Cares commercial
Ive seen Shane on one, Yao on one. Scola, Artest, Landry, and Mutombo all have one too. And thats just Rockets.
I dont think Kobe has a choice to do those commercials, but really its not a commercial that they do, its an actual community service day.
Game 1 100-92 Rockets
Game 2 111-98 lakers
Series Tied 1-1
unless it involves 19 year old white girls
by grungedave on May 7, 2009 2:00 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Kobe has never dealt with the media well
If he said a lot he came off as arrogant, if he said nothing he came off as arrogant. There’s a reason he adopted the Black Mamba. It was basically “F U guys, I don’t give a damn what anyone thinks.” And I’m pretty sure it’s columns like this that make him think the “American” world conspires against him (overseas he is beloved).
I disagree with your description of dirty, mainly because Bryant DID NOT elbow Artest in the neck (it was upper chest area). Because Kobe is a better player he has to be held to a higher standard of purity and sound play?
Artest was playing Kobe just as physical as Kobe was playing Artest. Bryant has the right on the court to defend himself. He shouldn’t be punished for that because he doesn’t exactly conform to the Right Way.
Bork bork bork!
by Avinash Kunnath on May 7, 2009 12:54 PM CDT reply actions
I don't recall Artest throwing an elbow
And… uh… what makes an elbow to the chest better than an elbow to the neck? It’s stil dirty.
Yep
And according the rules he still should have gotten punished IF it was bellow the shoulders.
k. A technical foul, unsportsmanlike act
or flagrant foul must be called for a
participant to be ejected.A player, coach
or trainer may be ejected for:
(1) An elbow foul which makes
But its K0be so he got none of that.
What Ron Ron did
Was certainly at worst just as bad as Kobe but does Kobe get ejected? Of course not…
Proud member of Duck nation!
Artest was clamping him
Using his body strength to anchor him to the ground. That stuff isn’t technically allowed either.
Bryant was jockeying for position and anchored Artest off of him with the elbow. I just thought it was hard playoff basketball on both sides. In Hakeem’s days none of this stuff would’ve been called.
Bork bork bork!
by Avinash Kunnath on May 7, 2009 1:11 PM CDT up reply actions
I see what you're doing there...
Trying to find something we can all relate to. The difference is Hakeem wasn’t a dirty player and didn’t elbow people in the face. People might have played harder back then but that still doesn’t give Kobe to right to elbow the opposition in the throat.
Plus, they make the rules stricter for a reason these days. Too much risk for injury.
"I am from one of the top 15 cities in the world. Buffalo, New York." - TrentEdwardsHoF2018
He did elbow Artest and he should get a flagrant. But Artest was playing him very physical down in the box. Kobe isn’t the type of guy who takes that stuff well.
But yes, Kobe swings his elbows too much. I just don’t think he should be ejected or suspended for it.
Bork bork bork!
by Avinash Kunnath on May 7, 2009 1:23 PM CDT up reply actions
Like I said, he should've gotten a flagrant
Probably will get one retroactively.
Bork bork bork!
by Avinash Kunnath on May 7, 2009 1:30 PM CDT up reply actions
Did you agree with Artest getting
thrown out? Because I’m pretty sure that was uncalled for.
"I am from one of the top 15 cities in the world. Buffalo, New York." - TrentEdwardsHoF2018
He was thrown out when he made what looked like
A throat slashing gesture. I disagree that he should’ve been thrown out, but it looked really bad in the moment.
Bork bork bork!
by Avinash Kunnath on May 7, 2009 4:07 PM CDT up reply actions
he had already been ejected when he made that motion
Game 1 100-92 Rockets
Game 2 111-98 lakers
Series Tied 1-1
by TexasHoosier on May 7, 2009 11:07 PM CDT up reply actions
WHAT MOTION
No one has shown this ANYWHERE. There was no freaking “throat slashing” gesture, period
www.TheDreamShake.com Co-Founder and Writer
Slashing.....
He was thrown out because he is Artest and Crawford is crawford. The idiot assumed artest would start a fight, not just yell like any other player would have done.
You make a good point about Kobe
But Artest was playing him very physical down in the box. Kobe isn’t the type of guy who takes that stuff well.
Youre right, Kobe doesnt take that stuff well. Kobe doesnt know how to play physical basketball. He didnt like it and retaliated in a dirty way.
Game 1 100-92 Rockets
Game 2 111-98 lakers
Series Tied 1-1
C’mon guys. Kobe simply effected a high powered reorganization of his humerus-related muscle structure to leverage a competitive matchup advantage. Its not like elbowed a guy or anything.
by seanbergmanrules on May 7, 2009 1:14 PM CDT up reply actions
I countered every opinion of Kobe’s elbow the Laker’s fan had with this picture here. Knowing that the Laker fans lost, they continued to delete all 8+ of my posts showing Kobe’s elbow in Ron’s throat.
by Rocket's Red Glare on May 7, 2009 4:28 PM CDT up reply actions
And they also banned me from further participation in their posts…. how typical. They had to Eliminate the guy with the evidence proving their opinion otherwise. Too embarrassing for them to have me post this picture all over their post and having no solid response to back up their embarrassing replies to my picture.
by Rocket's Red Glare on May 7, 2009 4:30 PM CDT up reply actions
Don't feel so bad
The entire NBA believes Kobe didn’t just hit him in the chest boxing out.
Why else is there a flagrant 1 when no foul was even called. That doesn’t happen to often.
OK, so what about the elbow to Battier's head? Or one of the MANY others...
… So you are going to give Kobe a complete pass because the elbow was a couple inches low in this case?
by 34forDreaming on May 7, 2009 12:58 PM CDT up reply actions
Should have been ejected for that
l. A player, coach or trainer must be
ejected for:
(1) A punching foul
(2) A fighting foul
(3) An elbow foul which makes contact
above shoulder level
But its k0be. I bet if he slugged someone infront of the refs he would still get off scott free. And Lakers fans would say its justifyed.
Rule 12, Part A, Section 5-Q of the official NBA rule book cites: “Elbow fouls which make contact above shoulder level, and punching fouls, although recorded as both personal and team fouls, are unsportsmanlike acts. The player will be ejected immediately.”
Bork bork bork!
by Avinash Kunnath on May 7, 2009 1:13 PM CDT up reply actions
And it wasn't above shoulder level.
Bork bork bork!
by Avinash Kunnath on May 7, 2009 1:13 PM CDT up reply actions
You talking about the deadball elbow when he was on top of Artest?
Did he cock the elbow? Maybe a technical foul, nothing more than that.
Bork bork bork!
by Avinash Kunnath on May 7, 2009 1:12 PM CDT up reply actions
It seemed like incidental contact to me.
Bork bork bork!
by Avinash Kunnath on May 7, 2009 1:14 PM CDT up reply actions
Then Kobe leads the league in incidental contact.
by seanbergmanrules on May 7, 2009 1:15 PM CDT up reply actions
Maybe he comes off as arrogant no matter what
because he is. Maybe people are pretty good at detecting assholes.
That’s the simpler answer.
Occam’s razor.
Go to the light. Go to the light...
Too much weird scar tissue obstructing your view?
Seriously though, it’s easy if you try.
Go to the light. Go to the light...
Hmm
You’re one of those guys who says “I’m really good at judging people” aren’t you?
And I’ll bet you are.
Heh. Nice one.
Only God knows what’s in our hearts.
But I have a pretty good suspicion…
Go to the light. Go to the light...
the only people who are good at detecting
assholes are the ones who spend their time bent over
That just doesn't follow. I get what you're trying to say, but it doesn't work.
Go to the light. Go to the light...
Oh please, if you've spent enough time on this earth everyone knows
an ahole when you see one. Kobe qualifies.
Kobe certainly has a right to defend himself
by NOT playing dirty. Artest wasn’t playing dirty!!! Show me a play where he throws the elbow.
Sure, he pushes and bumps Kobe ALL the time, so what? Kobe should have pushed and bumped back, not throw an elbow like a whiny little brat!!!
that's the most one sided bullshit ever...
players learn to get away with shit… artest knows how to push down with his elbows and ride other players, people swing wide after a rebound to clear space (and to let people know to stay the f_k away)… that’s the game
artest would have not even flinched except he got called for the foul (bad call)… he was pissed to get popped AND the foul…
So what about the elbow to Battier?
What about all the other times!? Take the blinders off man…
by 34forDreaming on May 7, 2009 1:18 PM CDT up reply actions
sorry missed the first game... read about it but can't respond to it
just talking about this incident
i'm being serious here
maybe the angles, but don’t see anything “dirty”.. kind of dicky, but you have to be a full blown homer if you don’t say that kobe is a dick (as a laker fan, i’m glad he’s a dick on my team, but i have no illusions of the beauty of his character)
fair enough
I call an intentional knee and elbow to the head dirty… We’ll just agree to disagree… If this had taken place in the olypic games, some guy from Korea would have tossed him..
by 34forDreaming on May 7, 2009 2:32 PM CDT up reply actions
Elbow to Battier?
Are you refering to the viscious head-but from Shane Battier to Kobe’s eblow and knee at the same time.
This isn’t soccer shane.
Lakers Fans
All these Lakers fans saying that Fisher’s foul was needed and sent a good hard message makes me really wish Dikembe’s elbows were still healthy enough to send some messages themselves.
by seanbergmanrules on May 7, 2009 12:55 PM CDT reply actions
No, Dave, Kobe isn't better than that.
That’s exactly what he is. Move on.
Go to the light. Go to the light...
I echo your sentiment, Dave.
Kobe has always been one of my favorites of all time. It was really disappointing.
For me this is great. Lots of people get to see him for what he truly is.
Go to the light. Go to the light...
more than the "elbow"
i didn’t care for his “he can’t guard me” bullshit (and i’m a laker fan).. i prefer the cold blooded assassin.
Props to you
I can respect what you’re saying. Thanks for showing some objectivity and class…
by 34forDreaming on May 7, 2009 1:27 PM CDT up reply actions
Agreed.
The best way to prove people wrong (which is seems like he’s trying to do) is to play the game. Not make a basket and start ranting about how Battier can’t guard him.
What about the stops that Battier DID make on him? You didn’t see Battier running down court yelling, “He can’t score on me!”
It’s called playing the game with some class. Something that Kobe doesn’t seem to know much about.
"I am from one of the top 15 cities in the world. Buffalo, New York." - TrentEdwardsHoF2018
Where Whatever-The-Fuck-That-Was-We-Just-Saw-Happens!
It’s Faaaannnntastic.
Go to the light. Go to the light...
i love the trashtalking between him and artest
but kind of lame when he’s talking shit to battier who never says a thing… it’s great to shut someone up, kind of a dick to battier…. but battier was the glorified hero of a famous article so he gets the wrath.
I know.
It seems like the less Battier responds (which is never from what I’ve seen) the more Kobe jaws about it.
I think he’s confused and thinks Battier personally wrote that article in the NY Times.
"I am from one of the top 15 cities in the world. Buffalo, New York." - TrentEdwardsHoF2018
I think Battier is thinking
If I had YOUR talent I’d have 8 rings. Idiot.
Go to the light. Go to the light...
Well, he could have.
Battier is MUCH MUCH MUCH smarter than Kobe. Book smarts, street smarts, basketball IQ, everything.
Kobe of course has a million times more raw talent.
Wouldn’t it bother you that this unathletic guy keeps throwing you off your game when the superstars like lebron and wade can’t affect you nearly as much?
Shane is unathletic?
He was also the 6th pick of his draft.
I wouldn’t undersell him so much.
By the way, Kobe was the 13th pick.
Admit it, Dave
You just posted this to get more Kobe / Artest talk going on a boring Thursday afternoon, didn’t you? ;)
this reminds me of raja bell snapping and clotheslining kobe.
he’s always been a douche, but he was a lot more likeable until game 2.
I'll snap yo neck like a twig if you sass me again. . .
i don't think kobe whined about the clothesline did he?
i remember him saying it was tough playoff basketball…. take a lesson
He did.
He called me at like 2am, he’d been drinking peach schnapps, for God’s sake, all that night and he just basically let loose for 3 hours. It was a freaking miserable. Never say he isn’t a whiner, because I’ve had to listen to it again and again.
Go to the light. Go to the light...
Get over it...
He should have got a technical.. Ron artest should have only got one too. This whining about please Kobe save my fandom. If you don’t like the player, so be it. Please don’t talking about Kobe being a whiner, complaining (to the refs is one thing) this guy who wrote the article is the definition of whining.
It was great writing and a different take on the situation… Actually, what you are doing on this board is, by definition, whining. LOL!
by 34forDreaming on May 7, 2009 1:22 PM CDT up reply actions
I think Ron should have gotten one T, like 3 other players had earlier for exactly the same behavior.
Because he’s Ron Artest, he gets tossed.
Phil Jackson wants consistency? So do I.
Go to the light. Go to the light...
Correction
Artest wouldn’t have had a technical if Bryant got a technical first. Why? Artest wouldn’t have thought to himself, “ok, I’ll just take this into my own hands since the officials obviously don’t want to do anything” and then proceed to run 25 feet across the court to get in Kobe’s face.
I never thought that Artest would actually throw a punch or anything, and what he did should have definitely been a technical call, but ejection was simply not warranted.
Could you transfer your affection to Brandon Roy?
He seems like such a nice young man. No trouble with the law, either.
Go to the light. Go to the light...
He's a Great Young man...
Who will pull a Duncan this summer.. and take less then he deserves to better the TEAM.
"Awesome! Totally awesome! All right, Hamilton!"
duncan has a huge contract though. . .
he’s my favorite player right now. classy guy. b-roy is definitely getting up there though
I'll snap yo neck like a twig if you sass me again. . .
i know he does..
but the spurs offered him MORE than that.. and he was like no… ill take this.. ect ect.
"Awesome! Totally awesome! All right, Hamilton!"
That was in response to
Could you transfer your affection to Brandon Roy?
He seems like such a nice young man. No trouble with the law, either.
In case it wasn’t clear
True enough.
And for something I found pretty horrible too.
I will say that he seems to have made a conscientious effort to change. And he certainly has been taken to task for his faults, both by the NBA, the legal system, fans and the press.
Watching the Rockets this season, this is honestly the first time I’ve seen Artest be anything other than either calm or, believe or not, jolly.
Go to the light. Go to the light...
So has Kobe Bryant.
Apparantly he is a nice guy though and his wife is an amazing example of arrogant bitch. Have you heard about their ex-maid?
Hot women don't have to adheer to rules
I thought we all knew that?
www.TheDreamShake.com Co-Founder and Writer
From that article
Kobe sounds like the little bitch I always thought he was.
His wife is cruel to an innocent woman and he just watches. Not only that he tries to talk her into staying instead of quitting. Not only that he can’t afford medical for her.
Actually, in other reports, which I don't have, Kobe made his wife apologize to the maid.
Even the maid says he was a great employer, it was just the wife that was crazy.
Hope he gets some kind of Fine/Suspension...
total BS on the call, refs gave LA that game.
"Awesome! Totally awesome! All right, Hamilton!"
I disagree.
I think LA may have won it anyway, but they turned it into a freak show. They kept Yao out with mostly wispy fouls, and they clamped down with something like 3 series of calls on the Rockets when it was close in the 4th.
It’s not foul calling that gets me worried, its when you seen 4 or 5 straight, and then they even it out later, when it doesn’t matter. People will think I’m insane, and I can’t prove it of course, but maybe one day I will. Or more likely, Mark Cuban will.
Go to the light. Go to the light...
Your a fan of Kobe
You are no fan of Kobe. If you were then you would look at the play objectively. Kobe is cut from NBA days where players played hard and were crafty with their play. Utah is a perfect example of the times Kobe came up in. Karl Malone and Stockton type of Players. Just like MJ was also and Scottie. There plays are not dirty they are within the context of the games. Kobe was boxing out Artest and Artest had his arm in the back of Kobes neck right before Artest was issued a foul on the play. 1 ref was watching it entirely and he didnt feel Kobe was dirty. That play happens every game and goes unseen and unheard. Since its Kobe it gets blown out of proportion. Where was this article for Rondo and his dirty antics for 2 different games vs bulls. You are no true fan, your a typical Kobe hater. Kobe killed you guys for the 2nd consecutive game with jumper after jumper.
In Game 1 Kobe fell on Battier. Battier tried to stand up with Kobe on top of him thats what happened. No elbows or knees were exchanged. Battiers face exploding from Sasha hittim. Sasha was hit in the face by Battier on the exact play as well. No fuss for that. Chalk the game up to a loss. Tell Artest dont over react and try to sell a foul that was called on himself. If the NBA suspends Kobe its pure bullsheet because Rondo should have suspeneded 2 different times and he got nothing.
EVERYONE IS OFF TOPIC HERE
What I really want to know is who was the dude that broke a piece off a table leg, threw it at another dude, and pierced his heart…killing him on the court? I know that Ron Ron came from a tough neighborhood, but I didn’t know it was full of ninjas.
I dunno, sounds like the sort of thing you couldn't make up.
I mean if you were making it up, wouldn’t you say the guy pulled a knife or something?
Go to the light. Go to the light...
Nice work.
I thought that story was too weird to be false. It IS horrible, though. Wow.
Go to the light. Go to the light...
I know this isnt the right forum, but...
The only thing i dont agree with in the letter to Kobe is that he is not
the best basketball player in the NBA
LeBron is better.
My evidence to this:
1) Kobe is now a jump shooter. Albeit an amazing jump shooter. He is the best in the NBA at creating and hitting a jump shot whenver he wants.
2) Who do you see more on the Top 10?? Bron or Kobe? Its Bron for sure. Now maybe youll call a bias by ESPN on this issue, but i ask, why would they not show great plays by Kobe if he made them?
3) LeBron is the most amazing combination of speed, size, and strength that the NBA has ever seen. He can block shots out of nowhere, drive and dunk almost whenever he wants, knock down jumpers at a good clip.
But other than that. Good Job Dave!!
Game 1 100-92 Rockets
Game 2 111-98 lakers
Series Tied 1-1
Please do not use ESPN Top 10 as your barometer
If that was the case Vince Carter would be one of the five greatest players in NBA history.
Bork bork bork!
by Avinash Kunnath on May 7, 2009 1:44 PM CDT up reply actions
I realize now that i didnt write that too well.
My main point is that Kobe doesnt drive anymore but is still an amzing shooter from anywhere on the court. LeBron does more for his team on both sides of the ball and is more exciting in the current NBA.
I didnt use the Top 10 as a barometer in a major way. I used it to prove that LeBron is more refined in more areas of his offensive game than kobe. He led the best regular season team in points, boards, assists, blocks, and steals. Thats pretty amazing, and he was the first MVP to do that. LeBron is the best all around player in the NBA.
Game 1 100-92 Rockets
Game 2 111-98 lakers
Series Tied 1-1
STOP WAIT NOOOOOOOO
Kobe is a jump shooter against the Rockets.
I think we all know what Lebron is against the Rockets……lol.
We have the best defense in the league. You don’t drive on us, you shoot.
by texasag on May 7, 2009 1:56 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Except Roy...
got in the paint and challanged Yao a couple times. Don’t forget that.
"Awesome! Totally awesome! All right, Hamilton!"
This is true
But i wasnt just comparing how they play against the Rockets. That would be unfair because as i stated kobe is a better jump shooter right now and that what the Rockets make people do.
Game 1 100-92 Rockets
Game 2 111-98 lakers
Series Tied 1-1
Pot Meet Kettle
Ok, I think this is just a bit ridiculous now. Yes, Kobe’s elbow was a little overboard but the role of victim doesn’t fit Ron Artest whatsoever. Ron’s the master at taking cheap shots are players and trying to get in their heads with his trash talking. He’s just upset because this isn’t moving Kobe. Instead, Kobe lit him up again for 40. It was a foul but definitely not in teh thorat as Artest claims. Replays show it hit him in the upper chest. Ron was just trying to get a suspension for Kobe out of it. Ron got ejected because he ran overto Kobe and that could’ve set off a brawl…I’m sure he knows a little something about that.
I can respect this take but,
What about the cheap shots to Battier?
by 34forDreaming on May 7, 2009 2:00 PM CDT up reply actions
That's funny!
That’s like saying “what about that cheap shot to Bruce Bowen”. Again, another master of special “defensive tactics” who gets away with as much as he can.
Yeah im confused too
Battier isnt a dirty player like bowen. Shane takes defense as seriously as Mario Williams. Shane reads plays and studies kobe’s game. Shane rarely fouls and almost always has a hand in kobe’s face when he shoots. Its not Shane’s fault kobe will be kobe.
Game 1 100-92 Rockets
Game 2 111-98 lakers
Series Tied 1-1
He never grabs jerseys and poke and prods, and pushes guys in the back while in the air
Oh, wait I saw Battier do all that last night
He never fouls?
He said rarely. I think his fouls tend to be very professional, though. Done with intent, but not desire to harm.
Go to the light. Go to the light...
I still don't see the desire to harm
From the Lakers’ fouls either.
By harm, I mean injure in such a way to prevent a player from continuing to play the rest of the game.
No Shane and all rockets rarely foul because
thats how the Rockets play. The Rockets are taught to not foul. Fouling is bad basketball. The Rockets are one of the least fouling teams in the league. Shane is the start of that, and it spread to the rest of the team. Trust me, ive been to plenty of live games.
Game 1 100-92 Rockets
Game 2 111-98 lakers
Series Tied 1-1
by TexasHoosier on May 7, 2009 11:12 PM CDT up reply actions
Contact is allowed in the NBA
Not sure why people don’t get that
www.TheDreamShake.com Co-Founder and Writer
Because there is a fine line between allowable contact
And illegal contact.
And that line gets crossed all game, without fouls being called.
by Gils_Keloids on May 8, 2009 12:07 PM CDT up reply actions
Is anyone here against contact?
Boxing out is contact, establishing position is contact, posting up is contact. We have no problem with contact… I do have a problem with malicious impact. Throwing an elbow is contact, but it’s more than that. Especially when it’s done in the way Kobe did it, out of frustration. He did it twice too! So obviously Ron was initiating contact as any good basketball player would trying to establish position on a player that was also trying to box out for a board.. No problem with either player until one of the strikes the other with a punch or any other motion intended to harm the other player in order to gain an advantage or send a message. You can’t possibly make a serious argument that Kobe wasn’t doing one of the two with that obvious swing of his elbow. Not only that, but he’s done it a lot!
by 34forDreaming on May 8, 2009 1:00 PM CDT up reply actions
So obviously Ron was initiating contact as any good basketball player would trying to establish position on a player that was also trying to box out for a board.
By pushing down on the player’s neck?
Except that's not what happened
He was feeling for position. Come on guys. Gils, you’ve been a really good commenter and I’ve appreciated. I don’t believe you truly think that happened for a secon
www.TheDreamShake.com Co-Founder and Writer
Feeling for position?
I’m not saying Ron was doing anything dirty, but it was certainly illegal when it comes to rebounding. And that why they called it a foul on him, it was for that. Kobe should never have thrown that elbow, and I don’t think he would have if he had reacted in time to the ref’s whistle.
Here, I’ll watch the video again, just for kicks. Yes, there it is, Ron has his hand on Kobe’s neck, pushes down, then rests his shoulder on Kobe’s shoulder.
They called the foul well after his hands were on him
So that not correct
www.TheDreamShake.com Co-Founder and Writer
You are watching the rockets right?
Battier does not poke and prod in the air.
Watch him guard Kobe. No contact. His hand about 2 inches from kobe’s face. The only fouls battier commits are extremely smart…. Bynum slips by Yao and has free reign to dunk, battier fouls forcing him to the line.
The guy is probably the smartest player in the NBA.
The point is that this what the Rockets hang their hats on.
I think it is pretty clear that the Lakers are a bit more dirty than the Rockets… but I’m sure any Laker supporter could disagree for all sorts of reasons.
The Rockets defense is built to give the opposing team a lower % to get a point. Things like fouling are a bad outcome, only useful against poor freethrow shooters with an easy layup before them. They don’t foul to make a ‘statement’ (well, they might tonight..). They have focused on this in ways the Laker team can only dream about. Of course, the opposite is true for working the ball in and out of the post. The Lakers have a subpar defense and have to make up for it by being a bit dirtier than a team like the Rockets.
So because he's Ron Artest he doesn't deserve the same protection under the rules?
Go to the light. Go to the light...
Laker's fan POV
Didn’t bother to read the comments. I’m sure there were good points made just as I’m sure there were alot of emotional dumb comments made. Not in a mood to dig through everything.
Fisher’s move was definitely premeditated. He will get suspended and he will have deserved it. The reason why he didn’t start talking trash or further escalating things after was because he had already accomplished what he wanted. He wanted to send a message. Mostly to his own teammates. I won’t delve into the psyche of several Lakers’ players here but I’ll just say that it probably helped Odom’s fragile mentality tremendously. So yes, he did expect a benefit, he received, and now he will receive his punishment.
Kobe did not hit Artest on the throat. Reverse-angle footage confirmed that he hit Artest around the top of the R of his jersey or towards the top portion of his chest. He will not be suspended. Anyone who thinks that he should be, needs to look very closely at post players jockeying for position in the post, especially in the playoffs. It’s fine if you still consider it dirty, but if that were grounds for suspension, basically every team should just start off minus 2 front court players.
Also, this is Kobe Bryant. It’s nothing new. He grew up idolizing basketball in the 80’s where physical play like this happened every game in the playoffs. He loves it. Does that make him dirty? Everyone has their own opinions. One thing you can’t take away from him though, he certainly takes it as much as he dishes it. It’s what seperates him from the wannabe thugs of the new generation. He expects people to get physical with him and he’ll give them hell back.
fair enough
and I’m not calling for Kobe to be suspended.
I’m just saying he should rise above the use of elbows as a retaliatory tactic.
and I’m not calling for Kobe to be suspended.
I am. :)
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
by xFenixKnightx on May 7, 2009 2:04 PM CDT up reply actions
He wont be
No need to call for it…he won’t be. Fisher will be because he did look back and kind of prepare for the shot but Scola is also a great actor. Dude is like a foot taller than Fisher and he curls up on the floor like a little *ussy.
yeah
Fisher had a running start and loaded up to hit him square in the chest with a shoulder/elbow. Even Yao/Shaq would fall from that.
Seriously.
It reminded me of a chip block that running backs use in football to put a linebacker on their ass.
"I am from one of the top 15 cities in the world. Buffalo, New York." - TrentEdwardsHoF2018
Are you serious
Watch it again…Scola knew he was going to get hit and added a little extra to make sure he sold the foul. He does it all the time and then has that dumbfounded look on his face. Either way, Fisher will get a suspension but as a b-ball fan you know that Fisher is probably one of the classiest guys in the league and well respected by the league. He’s not a dirty player but sometimes you have to step up and let a player know you ain’t backing down…and he did just that.
I'm sure off the court I'd let Fisher take my car keys.
But Scola’s reaction has nothing to do with what looks like a premeditated cheap shot.
Go to the light. Go to the light...
Move to L.A.
No he should just move to L.A. and pursue acting…oh never mind, with a face like that, he couldn’t get on your local community channel.
He could re-enact a death scene from Shakespeare
and it would still be a Flagrant 2 on Fisher.
Go to the light. Go to the light...
He could do Geico commercials...
True Scola is not so pretty, but I’m pretty sure Gasol lives under a bridge on my way to work… ;)
by 34forDreaming on May 7, 2009 2:27 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah whats up with the whole hobo look?
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
by xFenixKnightx on May 7, 2009 2:34 PM CDT up reply actions
The creature that lives in his beard wanted a yard.
Thus the hair.
Go to the light. Go to the light...
by Xiane on May 7, 2009 2:46 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
LMFAO
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
by xFenixKnightx on May 7, 2009 2:56 PM CDT up reply actions
also remember that scola was running straight at fisher
he wasn’t getting blind sided… he was going to push through fish, and fish gave some oomph.. yes, he deserves the ejection/suspension, but relax with the dramatic histrionics about the viciousness of it.
You see
“oomph” we see a cheap shot.
Ask yourself, would this be your reaction if Scola did it to Bryant? Oomph?
Go to the light. Go to the light...
without any context, i'd say cheap shot
in the context of what happened the previous few plays, i say oomph.. esp. from fish who isn’t an oomphing kind of guy normally
and remember the raja bell clothesline
everyone i knew saw that said it’s on baby.. we didn’t whine about how dirty raja bell was…. and i don’t think kobe blinked either… so yeah, in reverse, the same reaction…speaking for myself
Hmm
I think one point is good, on Bell – a player I do think of as dirty.
In the context of this game, and what had just happened, that’s exactly WHY he has to be suspended. Instead of calming down, Fisher escalates and throws an elbow on the very next series. He had to go, and he’ll be out one game. Kobe won’t. Artest probably won’t, as there isn’t much beyond jawing there, but he’s the Stalin of the NBA or something, so he might be out too.
Go to the light. Go to the light...
A well stated Laker perspective.
I’ll disagree that Kobe doesn’t mind taking it as well as dishing it out. It looks to me like he minds taking it tremendously.
Go to the light. Go to the light...
Oh
he’ll complain to the refs about it all night. I don’t know a single superstar who doesn’t complain to the refs, and Kobe certainly complains more than some (though not more than others). But he’ll use it for motivation and work harder whether it be that game or the next time he see’s the team/player. He’s not like some of these players who will cry to the media about it.
Kobe's elbow in Ron's Throat... Enough Said.
by Rocket's Red Glare on May 7, 2009 4:23 PM CDT up reply actions
i posted it as a response to every Laker post on Silverscreen saying the elbow was only to the chest… this picture caused them so much embarrassment they had to ban me from posting there and deleted all my posts with this picture as evidence. sorry if i am continuing to prove my point, forgetting this is the Rockets blog =P
by Rocket's Red Glare on May 7, 2009 4:40 PM CDT up reply actions
Hang on Dave...
Your willing to forgive him for sex whilst married, but not an elbow during a heated basketball game?
"I'm just looking forward to something great happening in the city of Houston" - Tracy McGrady
Still waiting...
yes. You simply don't pass up sex with 19 year olds.
by grungedave on May 7, 2009 2:14 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I'm just going to let an excellent jibe go here.
I know you’re in a state.
Go to the light. Go to the light...
Thought you all had some class...
Are you all serious? That whole thing is so old now. Any time you have nothing to say, you bring that up. Have you guys ever seen the list of NBA players accused of rape? 99% were unfounded and never went to trial but the list included Chauncy Billups, Ron Mercer, Sprewell, Zach Randolph, Marco Jaric, Eddy Curry…and so many more.
I'm not accusing him of rape
I’m accusing him of consensual sex while married.
"I'm just looking forward to something great happening in the city of Houston" - Tracy McGrady
Still waiting...
I was referring to the extensive list of rape allegations.
Of that list we have one indictment. This is a fact.
Also a fact, no conviction, but I’ve addressed that extensively and never get anything like a fair hearing from LA fans.
I came at that matter with an open mind. I didn’t know. I still don’t. The conduct at trial was a travesty, with decades of trying to clean up the law and victim protection in matters of rape thrown out the window and the victim put on trial before proceedings actually started. I could go on, but I’m weary of making points no Kobe fan ever considers.
If the defendant was some guy named Bob Bryant, would you feel the same way?
Go to the light. Go to the light...
no one knows what happened except 2 people
the question you ask is “If the defendant was some guy named Bob Bryant, would you feel the same way?” Frankly I don’t feel anything one way or the other- I don’t know what happened and nothing was proven, but the circumstances sure were suspicious.
and the question I ask is:
If the defendant was some guy named Bob Bryant, the minimum wage burger flipper, would the trial have happened? (You can’t say there was not some possibility of opportunism happening there?)
disclaimer: if someone did anything close to rape, then lock his ass up… but no one can say that was what happened.
kobe shouldn't have put himself in that position
Billy Grahm wouldn’t allow random women to even be around him without a third party… True story…
by 34forDreaming on May 7, 2009 3:40 PM CDT up reply actions
With evangelical preachers its not the random women you have to worry about…
by seanbergmanrules on May 7, 2009 3:43 PM CDT up reply actions
Oh it was much kinkier.
The Marquis de Sade had nothing on Billy Graham.
Ok, I’m going to hell for that…
Go to the light. Go to the light...
that's why james worthy only used escort services when on the road
only dealt with professionals… maybe billy grahm shared the same rolodex
I never knew that.
Somber looking Worthy, somberly dialing up an escort service. It’s a pretty funny picture. By the way – I loved that era of Lakers team. They were what was fun about basketball to me. It’s the Kobe/Phil incarnation I can’t stand.
Go to the light. Go to the light...
Ok, fair enough on on one point.
Not addressed on the other.
And sure there’s the matter of opportunism. That could be something for a jury to consider, but the trial process was so mangled by Kobe’s defense team that we never got to it. I blame his attorney for willfully violating colorado statute, and more, the judge for letting it happen. So when people say “Well, they dropped the charges, nothing there.” I have to disagree – my answer is, “we’ll never know”.
Go to the light. Go to the light...
Dorsey
How great would it be to unleash him in Game 2 or the series? I’d absolutely love to see Odom talk trash to him. Oh, and someone might want to tell Kobe he shouldn’t waste time jawing with Chuck-wagon (I’d trade a Chuck technical for a Kobe one any day).
Seriously Lakers fans, admit that this isn’t the type of series you want. You’re team thrives on a finesse and speed game. With the championship in sight, playing hardball with a tough Rockets team is not in your best interest especially with (most likely) the Nuggets on the horizon, but…..
Not that it matters. The Lakers will have plenty of time to lick their wounds when their offseason starts in a week.
That's hilarious
You’re still talking about Luis Scola right??? Just checking…never heard “unleash” and Scola in the same sentence. LOL
Maybe you should watch more basketball outside of the SBA
Scolla is an great player… Surely you can see that…
by 34forDreaming on May 7, 2009 2:29 PM CDT up reply actions
By the way.
Scola is a legitimate international star, like Gasol, for example.
He has as many olympic gold medals as Kobe, LeBron, and DWade.
Go to the light. Go to the light...
Actually
this is the exact type of series I wanted. This series is going to be NOTHING compared to whoever plays the Nuggets. I wouldn’t be surprised at all if a fight broke out and there were multiple suspensions. The Cavs don’t exactly shy at contact either.
Anyone who thinks that this team is soft in the face of adversity hasn’t been watching the games. The Lakers have been pushing back all year. You can tell that all the criticism they’ve gotten from the media, justified or not, has affected them. In fact, I’d say they are much softer against worst teams. They tend to toy with them and rely on their talent to win the game (which they still do the vast majority of times).
No
I meant Dorsey. If he were healthy, his big ass would put Odom, Walton and VuyaBitch on the floor. We have a team full of hard-nosed players, including Scola.
Take a look
All the talk about elbows…why don’t you look at a blow by blow account and tell me why Artest is crying again??
http://www.silverscreenandroll.com/2009/5/7/867885/ron-artest-kobe-bryant-and-wayward
A frame by frame doesn't show the physics of it
real-time video shows Ron playing overly aggressive and infringing on Kobe’s established position… It also shows Kobe throwing an elbow… Much different.
by 34forDreaming on May 7, 2009 2:31 PM CDT up reply actions
The man has a history, and I'm not talking about Artest...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-K5MYXuAiaI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxGoMAMuDUQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cv01-fcYmE0 see 4:02 into this one
He throws punches, he throws elbows, he acts innocent, he gets away with it…
by 34forDreaming on May 7, 2009 2:46 PM CDT up reply actions
How Kobe plays that way and still gets favored treatment from the league is beyond me.
So many Laker homers on here today. They should just stay on their own site. Why are they even defending him?
follow the money and the ratings my friend...
simple as that.. Stern is focused on expanding the league and making more money. It’s compeling talents like Kobe that bring interest to the game and new fans. People may see a highlight and want to see more… Know what I mean?
by 34forDreaming on May 8, 2009 1:04 PM CDT up reply actions
you forgot about this one!
skip towards the last few minutes
DAMN!
Surely they at least called a foul… Dirty bastard… I hate him even more now.
by 34forDreaming on May 8, 2009 3:54 PM CDT up reply actions
Is that guy in the stone age?
There’s video and animated gifs around, but he chooses to use the worst possible medium for visual interpretation to reconstruct the play. The videos show Artest was using his lower body to move Kobe, not his forearms and elbow. Artest didn’t apply force to Kobe’s neck and head. The only part of the video that may show it would be the very beginning of that play when Kobe bends forward with Artest’s forearm behind him. Even then, I don’t particularly think its anything out of the ordinary in the playoffs.
"I'm at the thingamajig talking the yakety-yak" - Kenny Smith
Kobe people love him and hate him
This always happens to the great ones a misstep and it gets pointed out like it will stop there rise to greatness same with Jordan people love to hate Kobe but his jersey is Number one in the league where Lebron James and Dwayne Wade have problems selling out other arenas Kobe doesn’t lets face it Kobe is the greatest player on this earth we all know it.
If we do our history we will see that this elbow to the chest was not so world end like Ron tried to pro- test . If anyone plays basketball those things happen if someone is on your back pushing when you box out it happens please stop the hate if you slow down ever play it looks like someone hurt someone or has intent that was during a play not after he control the ball (Dwight Howard) just like Ron had his elbow on Kobe’s neck the hold play that’s why it’s a foul. Ron is not on Kobe’s level so it will bother him you can tell when Ron is trying to sell something he talks real fast and way to much trying to make you buy his story trust me if Kobe was that dirty it would be talked about constantly like everthing else,but it’s Ron who back’s down from Ben Wallace and went after Fans, but Kobe he attacks? Slow down that play against him and Ben yeah right this is Ron’s game like Rodman but Kobe played against Rodman, Jordan and Charles Barkley old school mentally tough and physically you think Kobe will get suspended please it’s the only reason people come to the game Kobe win or lose that’s why almost every basketball arena shouts MVP where Chicago forgot about every player on it’s team when word Kobe might come Shouts we want KOBE and where China loved him like Crazy louder Ovation then yes Yao Ming and Lebron . People just like Mike Jordan he did some push off ,hits and all (Byron Russell) Remember real basketball the only reason the NBA is so sensitive is because of yo boy Ron Ron Malice at the Palace Raja Bell and Kobe was worst Karl Malone and Dennis Rodman was worst the differences is they were mentally stronger no one attack fans when they got mad Kobe got Ron out of his Game guy had like 25 Pt’s and then the most physically player starts crying when someone hits back Kobe did it to him in the regular season everytime he loses his cool and its rubbing off on Von (Ron) Wafer too. Lakers in 6
by pretty rick on May 7, 2009 2:49 PM CDT reply actions 2 recs
pretty rick doesnt type pretty
My eyes hurt.
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
by xFenixKnightx on May 7, 2009 2:57 PM CDT up reply actions
Period, Comma, Indentation, Spacing
They are your friends.
They should all elbow him in the throat on top of the ‘R’ for ignoring them.
:P
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
by xFenixKnightx on May 7, 2009 3:00 PM CDT up reply actions
Kobe fan?
Yikes, now thats flat out odd..
You wont be by the end of the series
Well if Kobe’s people want to read this blog and come at me with charges, let them. And know, it isn’t out of anger. It is a general opinion and the only constructive thing I have to say about the individual.
Who said anything about charges?
I don’t like Kobe, but I’m sure there are reason’s why he is such a messed up person.
I've seen the light.
He is the hope of humanity. He is the Chosen One.
Go to the light. Go to the light...
What is the purpose of communication?
If it is to simply preen oneself, no empathy is needed.
If it is to be correct, no emotion is needed.
If it is to cause another person to see the image you see, understanding is needed.
To communicate effectively with anyone, one must do their best to see things from the other’s perspective and speak in terms that the other can connect to their own thoughts. To simply dispute another’s point of view entirely has no value except in terms of communicating to a third party.
To talk to Gils_Keloids I must do my best to look through his eyes. If I only look through mine, we can never reach any sort of understanding. I would just be talking to satisfy my ego. It would be a waste of time for me to try to convince you that Kobe is a dirty player, for example. However, it might be useful of me to point out that Kobe’s actions have, at times, been immature for the place he has in society.
So when I talk to someone who believes someone deserves quick death, I do not dispute the fact that the opposing party has done wrong.
Rather, I try to create empathy in that person. Hate does not instantly switch to general human respect. It takes time.
The point is: talk to others in words and feelings that they can understand.
Yes, I’m sure you know this, but I felt the need to make it clear.
Personally, I think we are all messed up in different ways. Kobe’s are just especially repugnant because he has so many looking up to him. You are welcome to argue that point and I might be convinced to take a slightly different view.
For the record I have argued that Kobe is NOT a dirty player on this site in the past. Kobe appears to wish to prove me wrong…
Thank you for your empathy
But really I was just trying to figure out what constitutes a “messed up person”.
Kobe’s actions have, at times, been immature for the place he has in society.
Yes. And so have George Bush’s actions, and Bill Clinton’s and many other public figures.
Are they messed up people, too?
Celebrities, sports stars, politicians....
Are all public figures that kids look up to and so they have to be put to higher standards period. I don’t have kids but I wouldn’t want my daughter idolizing some skankoids or my son to idolize a dirtbag. With that fame and fortune comes an added weight on responsibility and this is what these fools need to realize and honestly if they can’t handle it then they need to step out of the spotlight or stfu about their privacy and all that nonsense.
Basically:
If you’re a popular public figure or want to become one, chances are you’re going to get hounded and lose nearly all your privacy and this is something he/she/they need to realize. If they can’t handle the loss of privacy then don’t become a public figure, end of story no ifs, ands or butts about it.
any official word on why Von Wafer was sent to the showers?
Roger Sterling: I bet there were people in the Bible walking around, complaining about "kids today."
Don Draper: Kids today, they have no one to look up to. Cuz they're looking up to us.
According the Chron
Throwing a water bottle, complaining about being taken out of the game, generally getting in Adelman’s face.
I’m hoping it all blows over.
Go to the light. Go to the light...
What did he do(or NOT do) to get yanked?
Roger Sterling: I bet there were people in the Bible walking around, complaining about "kids today."
Don Draper: Kids today, they have no one to look up to. Cuz they're looking up to us.
Oh, whoops.
Um, just generally getting out of control, as he sometimes does I think.
Go to the light. Go to the light...
I just saw the close up video of the elbow
on ESPN and that angle clearly shows Kobe going for the neck. It will be a dark day for the NBA if he isn’t suspended.
The point being that it was done on purpose. He should be suspended. Even if it didnt hit his throat it was definately around the collar bone which should result in a suspension. ESPN tries to make it sound like it was in his chest. WTF?! Yeah right!
Peace out Rocketheads, goin home finally.
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
by xFenixKnightx on May 7, 2009 4:12 PM CDT up reply actions
I think the issue is that Kobe wants to be Jordan
Jordan, for all his love and adulation, was a dirty player at times. He threw stuff like this and got away with it. He knew when to use dirty tactics to get an advantage. Kobe does the same thing now. It isn’t that he is immature and thus can’t help himself, it’s that he wants to win and that’s a way to win. Look at the result of the elbow. Artest got ejected. It was a win for Kobe. And his trash talking is the same way. It won’t work on Battier, but he has to try. It works on a LOT of people.
I don’t like it. I don’t approve of it. I don’t condone it. But I understand it. Kobe has to win. Every loss is a personal slight on Kobe Bryant, and he won’t allow it. And he will use every tool in his bag of tricks to win.
"We Believe" - Rudy Fernandez
"he will use every tool in his bag of tricks to win."
That is disgusting!
But isn’t that in many ways a problem with some people’s mentality. Is it better to win, or to be good?
Seeing as the Laker's were desperate last night in getting a win...
Kobe and company had to resort to plays like this…
by Rocket's Red Glare on May 7, 2009 4:36 PM CDT up reply actions
Scola got knocked the F out!!!
That’s because Artest and the Rockets played like this:
Are you refering to the:
blue arrow pushing on Ron’s hand or Kobe squeezing Ron’s nuts?
by 34forDreaming on May 8, 2009 1:07 PM CDT up reply actions
LOL, look how weak Kobe is
Ron isn’t even paying attention to Kobe even though he is trying with all his might to box him out.
Also, Ron wears some short shorts yet Kobe is grabbing a fistful there. Looks like I was right.
Well, it's also a problem with the fans
People like Kobe Bryant. As much as he is hated, he is moreso loved. The same is even MORE true about Jordan. Players love a winner, and sometimes being a winner requires dirty plays, or so many assume. The fans really support stuff like this.
"We Believe" - Rudy Fernandez
Seriously
Okay so if you trash talk against the lakers -fakers
you are banned
you put arguments..you will be banned
you say they talk trash
banned!
can we do the same..though it’s not in the spirit..
i don’t appreciate being banned for speaking my mind and being honest..when a gazillion la rapists are pesterizing our blog !
Got to be careful
Each blog has different rules. Blazersedge, for example, is family friendly, and a lot of the words you can freely say here will get you in big trouble there.
Before you post on any blog, you might want to be aware of the rules they use.
"We Believe" - Rudy Fernandez
Epic fail
Yes, for some reason, I don’t think it was the part about speaking your mind and being honest that got you banned.
If it’s any consolation, you can talk trash against me here!
KobeRulez
I’m sorry, but looking at the repeated picture/video above, since when is Ron’s boxing out with an elbow to Kobe’s neck allowed?? I’m sure you Rockets fans are the same morons that thought Artest’s elbow to Kobe’s throat during the regular season game was a way to keep him from getting position, right!!?!? Get a damn clue… it’s the NBA, they didn’t suspend Rondo for tossing/throwing aside Kirk deliberately into the scorer’s table or clearly going after Miller’s face after he was already stretched out with the ball 1 inch from the basket. It’s the playoffs, things are going to get a lot more physical. About time Ron got some of his own physical play medicine. I do think Fisher wound up for a football block on Scola… serves Scola right for yanking on Odom’s jersey AFTER the play is already over!! As for people crying for Shane, if he’s supposed to be this great defender, I’m sure he doesn’t mind the trash talk as “great” defenders should be used to that… and getting lit up for 40!!! SUCKAS!!!! Go Lakers!!!!
kobe is my favorite PLAYER of all time
notice i didn’t say person, i said player. what he does on the court (basketball wise) always amazes me even though i’ve seen it a hundred times. the man is a wonderful basketball player (but not on jordan’s level. let me just clear that up).
as for kobe the person, i don’t like him that much. he takes cheap shots at players all game and cries too much when a call does not go his way. many times i find myself wishing that he would shut the hell up and do what he is good at, playing basketball
rocket’s red glare, please stop giving your fellow rocket fans a bad name. i have much respect for you guys even though it’s quite clear that you don’t respect me. you have posted that picture a hundred and one times. i don’t know if you noticed but in that picture, kobe’s elbow has not landed yet. it’s coming down
I'll say it again, the Ty Cobb of the NBA.
Well, without the racism.
But who goes to Cooperstown to see his plaque?
Go to the light. Go to the light...
OK honest question...
Since I’ve been here, I’ve seen hundreds of posts about how awful a person Kobe is (rapist! selfish!), how dirty the Lakers are, how Kobe is this vile, evil creature that should be isolated from decent society, all that stuff….OK, I get it. I really do. Players on most teams do a lot of things I don’t agree with. Little taunts like that “you can’t guard me” nonsense Kobe pulled out last night to adultery. I get the moral outrage.
Now I just want to ask this – how do you people define fandom? Don’t real fans stick by their teams and players? Don’t Lakers fans get a bad rep for being “Faker” fans and not really caring about the team? Do you want us to stop caring about our team based on who the front office decides to bring in? Yes, we can want players gone, but in playoff time you support your team, right?
Most people become sports fans because of the “sport” part. Every single franchise will at some point bring in unsavory characters. Do we stop being fans then?
Houston has been very lucky – Hakeem, in my opinion, was one of the greatest human beings this league has ever seen. But what would happen if Houston turned into a version of the Jail Blazers? What if the front office brought in inherently unlikeable players? Would you abandon support for the Rockets if they made it to the Finals?
I guess I’m just very confused with all this “moral outrage” and personal attacks. I get that some Lakers are unlikeable, as are a lot of players. What I don’t get is why some Rockets fans expect us to disown our team because of that, or consider us rape-supporters or nonsense like that. If a person only liked a team because of moral issues, you’d have to rotate your fanhood to different teams over time. That’s not being a fan.
Yes and no, you vote with your feet until you get a team you can respect.
It worked for Portland.
Go to the light. Go to the light...
Good analogy
Look what portland did. We wouldn’t stand for game at the cost of personalities and the fans forced the hand of the Blazers. So I would say that, yeah, it IS the responsibility of the fans to control the actions of the players somewhat. You shouldn’t give a free pass to a horrible person just because they are a horrible person, and being a fan doesn’t mean that you can’t make criticisms or demands of your own team.
"We Believe" - Rudy Fernandez
Read my post a bit more carefully
I agree that fans should demand better, and who doesn’t think fans should criticize the front office? I’m talking about in the postseason. Wasn’t Portland’s arena still sold out when the Jail Blazers made it to the WCF? Would you boycott a Rockets game if they made it to the Finals with despicable players?
Obviously no one wants jerks on their team, and fans should protest most of the time. But in the playoffs, most fans are usually willing to stand behind their team regardless of its flaws. I don’t think that’s a stretch at all.
WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
We are not in any way nice to McGrady.
He got booed at the first game he came back to by Rockets fans.
That answer your question?
I agree with just about everything you said
except for the whole “Kobe Bryant is the best player in the NBA” thing.
My greatest enemy is my inner me
A picture is worth a thousand words indeed
MAYBE Kobe was a little tired of carrying Artest’s weight… YOU THINK????
Stop the Kobe hate and just appreciate!!
We've said to those posting the other pics that it doesn't show force
You can clearly see in the video that he’s touching him, not pushing him. Nice just using no context whatsoever for a picture
www.TheDreamShake.com Co-Founder and Writer
by UofTOrange on May 8, 2009 9:51 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Artest is protecting himself.
Look a Kobe’s hands. Artest doesn’t swing that way and had he let Kobe come back anymore, he might have gotten a full cuppage.
I will never appreciate him
because:
1) he’s arrogant (you can’t guard me)
2) he has no class (trash talking to shane battier amounf many other examples)
3) he has no loyalty to his family (see Colorado)
4) he has no loyalty to his friends (see Shaq, though Shaq is guitly too)
5) he’s dirty (see the last 2 games)
6) he gets away with it and never apologizes (he KINDA apologized to his wife, KINDA)
The hatred is deserved
by 34forDreaming on May 8, 2009 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions
you puke david
grow a pair…nobody cares what u think in choke city.
what does Kobe ever do besides win and brush off haters???…10 years from now when he’s out of the league history will look upon him very kindly…Michael Jordan was no angel either.
u think you’ve been deceived, u should have tried supporting john edwards…lol…hey, i’m kind of neutral on the topic. it’s like, he’s trying to intimidate, he’s trying to punish, he’s trying be come across as tough. i don’t think he is a dirty player. i do think he is the best player. he’s just trying to beat his opponents down in more than one way: on the basketball court, and by attacking their psyche.
and artest is a dirty player. he’s the one who initiated the rough, if not illegal contact, by placing his arm on kobe’s head and pressing against it. i’m not a ref, but the last time i checked, that is a foul, if not a dirty and illegal tactic. i’m sorry to say, but artest and his trash talk and dirty tactics woke up the sleeping giant: the lakers. now they are going to steamroll their way to a title.
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