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Draft Thoughts 3.0 - Sam Hinkie provides some useful information

Rockets VP of Basketball Operations Sam Hinkie was on a Rockets.com podcast with Craig Ackerman and Jason Friedman today.  Here's what he had to say about our draft situation:

"It's an interesting process.  It's sort of like negotiating to buy a house if there is no list price.  That said, everyone has a little history on their side that helps them.  

Take a second round pick; there's not this sort of a "chart" that exists in the NFL.  That said, teams have sold them in the past, and they have some sense of what they've gone for in the past.  People talk.  If you're an aggressive team, you might collect that data and build your own chart.  That gives you some ballpark to know what might be reasonable.

First round picks have a different constraint.  There is a limit on the amount of money that you can put into a particular deal.  If you're talking about buying a pick, which is what most often happens in the NBA draft, there is a limit, which is 3 million dollars.  I think history would show that 3 million dollars would buy you in - some years late in the first round.  But what you'll also see is that picks in the lottery, or near there, have been much, much harder to come by, and that cash alone, if it's limited to 3 million, won't do it, and that you'll need to trade players of real value to get up that high."

So, uh, about that Chase Budinger thing.  Unless Detroit's economy is really bad, and unless they want 3 million bucks to go after Carlos Boozer really badly, I've suddenly become less excited about moving up to the fifteenth slot.  Trading away "a player of real value" would mean trading a Scola, or a Brooks, or a Battier, or even a Landry (we'll be holding on to McGrady, either for the cash or for a better deal.  Or better yet...for the talent!).  I'm not certain what Hinkie's definition of "real value" is, but he did go on to use the Ray Allen/Boston trade as an example.  If that was for the sixth overall pick, then one of our less significant starters or top bench players seems like a likely trading chip for the fifteenth pick.  

I don't want that, and neither should you.

Can you name a player in the 15-20 slot who could be as good as any of the significant players that we have?  And when I mean "as good as," I not only refer to talent, but how they fit in with our roster as well.  Is the addition of Budinger worth the subtraction of Luis Scola?  No.  How about Terrence Williams over Aaron Brooks?  No.  Mix and match all you want - nothing fits.  Unless a miracle happens, no player that would truly be "worth it" will slip down to the 15-20 range, at least none of the position that we'd like to address.  DeMar DeRozan would be the only shooting guard worth a look, but he won't get past Charlotte at number 12.

Based solely off of what Hinkie assumes the market to be for a first rounder, you can pretty much kiss a lottery pick or immediate post-lottery pick (15-20) goodbye.  There is room for a miracle deal, but it's highly unlikely.  To be honest, the scenario wasn't very probable to begin with.  Now we have enough information to firmly shove it away in the "Unless God Owes Me Something..." department.

Just as a preliminary thought, three million for a late first rounder won't hurt us much at all.  My guess now is that we'll settle for the second rounder, as shooting guards thin out after Budinger and Williams.  Unless we go after Sam Young in the late first (which would be fine by me), look for guys like Jermaine Taylor, Micah Downs, Jerel McNeal, or Joe Ingles.  Other probables are Wayne Ellington and Danny Green from UNC, but they, unlike the others, have yet to work out for Houston.  I'm holding strong to the idea that we'll be looking for a 2 guard or athletic small forward.

Your thoughts?

0 recs  |  Comment 12 comments |

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sam hinkie, not sam presti

Presti’s the Thunder’s GM.

Your friendly neighborhood Dreamshake mod.

by Only_A_Lad on Jun 7, 2009 12:50 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

oh wow

…i was really, really tired…..

The Dream Shake
"I think girls are probably just better shooters." - Steve Novak

by Tom Martin on Jun 7, 2009 8:50 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

as for trading a player of "real value"...

Not to name-drop the guy again, but one thing Bill James has tried to explain is the general trend for good teams to decline. This is not simply because their players get older: it’s also because teams start to get paralyzed with success. They say to themselves, “We won with all these players last year, why can’t we do it again?” In contrast, losing teams tend to say to themselves, “We need to change.” That can mean they change the wrong things, but they become more active in acquiring players.

So, I think that if the Rockets want to continue to win, they need to be aware of how they can upgrade their team (that sounds pretty obvious and banal, but it’s a point that Hinkie makes, and it’s something that a lot of teams fuck up). And maybe part of that is trading away some depth at PF or PG next season for a longer-term investment. Fortunately for the Rockets, this draft has a very clear top three or four players but a big gap between that group and everyone else. And “everyone else” is pretty closely-grouped. So there’s a good chance that a player the Rockets want will be available later in the draft.

But let’s say that Morey and Co. decide that Chase Budinger (just as an example) is their guy. They’ve looked at the stats, film, and workouts, and they think Budinger has the potential to be at least Brent Barry, and maybe a lot more. They think, with the right atmosphere and coaching, Budinger could be an all-star forward. And they think he’ll be taken at some point between 15 and 20, and they have the opportunity to get Phoenix’s pick for the maximum cash and Carl Landry (because the Suns are going to trade Amare for some reason). Is that worth it?

If I’m Daryl Morey, and I believe those things about Budinger, then I immediately say yes to that trade. To me, that’s a steal. Things get muddled with Brooks, but I’d probably still say yes to that. Maybe not with Scola (because that might totally gut the Rockets’ chances in 2010).

It depends entirely on what the front office thinks about each player.

Now, not knowing anything substantial about each player, I’d say that I wouldn’t trade any of the players you mention. I don’t think the players available would justify trading away anyone “substantial.” I think we’re probably looking at a really crappy draft class.

Your friendly neighborhood Dreamshake mod.

by Only_A_Lad on Jun 7, 2009 1:28 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

oh,

and one thing to remember in all of this is that we’ll probably have to give up either Scola or Landry in the 2010 offseason. Given how spectacularly underpaid Scola is right now, he’s going to want a big raise that year. And Landry has shown he can really produce when he’s on the court. Somebody is going to pay him a lot of money to start. The Rockets might as well get something for one of them, right?

The more I think about it, the more I’d probably be willing to trade Scola in a deal and give Landry a shot at starting for us. It would have to be a really good deal, though.

Your friendly neighborhood Dreamshake mod.

by Only_A_Lad on Jun 7, 2009 1:35 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah

It’s not a very good draft class. I mean, if Morey really likes Budinger, then he may go for it, but I just don’t see it. It’s not only a crappy draft class at the top, but it’s really, really thin at the bottom as well.

The Dream Shake
"I think girls are probably just better shooters." - Steve Novak

by Tom Martin on Jun 7, 2009 8:53 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Good point

Also, it’s worth noting that Scola is 29, and Landry is 25. I mean, I love Luis, but you can’t always be thinking short term.

How many Biletnikoffs does he have? NOT TWO!

by ak2themax on Jun 7, 2009 2:18 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't know

It seems kind of far fetched to trade away a starter for a late first round pick. Scola or Landry for a 15-30 draft pick is not square.

But you do hit an excellent point about the Rockets needing to avoid being stagnant. Now if we look at the draft pick in a bigger package…

What if the Rockets look to kill two birds with one stone and trade away someone at PF for a backup center AND a pick. An investment in now and later.

Or the other option is trade someone like Barry to a team with money problems and they get the benefit of another 2million getting off the books in 2010.

Point is, I think if we do make a move into the draft, based on what Hinkie said, it might be a bigger deal that resolves another issue at the same time.

by pj.ibi.est on Jun 7, 2009 9:28 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Remember

It’s not the late first round that requires a significant player. We can still purchase a pick in the 21-30 range (or at least somewhere in that ballpark) with solely 3 million. And yes, the point about being stagnant is valid, but this isn’t the year to shake things up. Next year remains to be seen.

The Dream Shake
"I think girls are probably just better shooters." - Steve Novak

by Tom Martin on Jun 7, 2009 11:47 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You're Right

I mixed up saying “late first round” pick with “Budinger-type mid first rounder.”

I don’t think we will get too big of an impact in the draft this year. Maybe a prospect to develop. But you do raise the 23 million dollar question of what happens next year, when the Rockets are nothing but options and we have a lot more information to make decisions (particularly with regard to T-Mac).

Too bad my crystal ball is busted.

by pj.ibi.est on Jun 7, 2009 1:56 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I say forget the draft and fleece the poorer teams in the league for a big man!

by cedric ceballos on Jun 8, 2009 8:06 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I'd be happy just to settle for a 2nd round SG

purchase for a million, like jumping Joe Ingles, although he will not be the best Australian in the draft,(Pat Mills) He’s better lot better Brad Newley as far as talent and readiness.
If we have a chance to grab a 40-50 pick I’d be running with that.

"It's who we are," Battier said. "I don't think we're going to get the love of the six foot blonde bombshell. That's what the Lakers are here for. It's alright, I like our demographic."

by DREAM34 on Jun 9, 2009 12:39 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

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