So Yao is out... what next for the Rockets?
by grungedave on Jul 17, 2009 4:50 PM CDT
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We know officially now that Yao Ming will miss the entire 2009-10 season. This hasn't been surprising or shocking for about a month now, but it still sucks to see. Additionally, while we've heard that Tracy McGrady's rehab is ahead of schedule and that everything is going well post-microfracture -- it's still unlikely we'll see McGrady able to take part in a game until January or February (and whether that's in a Rockets uniform is a whole different matter).
The good news is that Daryl Morey is not sitting on his hands cursing the gods and moaning about how unlucky he is. No, that's just what I would be doing. Okay it is what I am doing at this very moment. So, uh, good thing *I* am not the GM of the Rockets (then again, I would have signed Robert Horry... and how awesome would that have been?) Nevertheless, the Rockets have a lot of questions entering next season.
But first of all, to everyone who has been complaining about Morey not acquiring a legitimate center to either back-up Yao or to relace Yao: are you crazy? This is the complete list of legitimate centers (i.e., guys that actually play the position) in the entire NBA.
(in no particular order)
Yao
Dwight Howard
the Fat Ass
Andrew Bynum
Zydrunas Ilgauskas
Marcus Camby
Chris Kaman
Tyson Chandler
Joel Przybilla
Greg Oden
Mehmet Okur
Andris Biedrins
Brook Lopez
Hasheem Thabeet
... that's it. That's the list. Now, I know there are a bunch of names you want to toss out to fill the list: Al Jefferson, Chris Anderson, Amare, Chris Bosh, David Lee... maybe even Tim Duncan. Here's the thing -- none of those guys are a center. They may be forced to be listed as centers. But they are all power forwards... and in the case of Amare and Chris Anderson, they might even be small forwards. The point is that you just don't go out and "get a center" anymore. Most teams in the NBA fulfill the center position via smoke and mirrors. It's been done before. For the Rockets, however, it is further complicated because you don't just replace Yao Ming. Every generation has maybe 2-3 legitimate franchise centers. The Rockets have been fortunate to have three (Moses, Hakeem, Yao).
Therefore, instead of complaining about not having a center... or ripping on Morey for not cloning Yao (though I'm sure the Chinese government is working on it) ... or trading McGrady's expiring contract for Dwight Howard (even if we throw Brian Cook in as a sweetener)... how about we work with what we have? While I don't expect David Andersen to be the answer to all of our problems, Luis Scola has raved about him, and dammit that's good enough for me right now.
As of today, our lineup next year will be:
PG - Aaron Brooks
SG - Shane Battier
SF - Trevor Ariza
PF - Luis Scola
C - Chuck Hayes
off the bench we will have a plethora of bodies, just none taller than 6'10". Kyle Lowry, Carl Landry, Brent Barry, Jermaine Taylor (?), Joey Dorsey (?), James White, Chase Budinger (?) and the aforementioned Andersen...
/momentary pause while I stop to wipe away a few tears/
Okay, so the Rockets are going to be the smallest team in the NBA next year. And no one except Aaron Brooks, Kyle Lowry and Brent Barry have the ability to actually dribble the basketball. No problem. Rick Adelman's entire system is geared towards quick passing and not one-on-one activity. And with Battier, Scola and Chuck, you know these guys will play tough defense. You'll never question the effort of this group. Plus, it will be kinda cool to see Luis Scola try to be a 20/10 guy (though this will kill our leverage next year when we try to re-sign him).
I just have no idea how we are going to put the ball in the basket. Center or no center. A typical Rockets win will probably be of the 82-79 variety.
Okay, now the news about Yao is depressing me. #(*&#@*(!!!!!!!
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I remember we made the list of "true centers" in one of the playoff threads, too.
You forgot about Emeka Okafor and Robin Lopez.
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by Only_A_Lad on Jul 17, 2009 5:26 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
PF and maybe
Emeka is a PF…
Robin is a clown… not sure how that translates to being a center.
by grungedave on Jul 17, 2009 5:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't really think his personality matters
fact is his twin brother is a center, so therefor so is he.
Also, where’s Marc Gasol? Definately NOT a Power Forward. His brother Pau is, but not Marc.
I’d also like to submit Andrew Bogut too.
"The problem actually is that PER is a extra-long, double high wagon load of horse crap." - timbo (7/3/09)
by tandur on Jul 17, 2009 5:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yep, easy to forget about those guys
Gortat, too.
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by Only_A_Lad on Jul 17, 2009 6:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
okay
I give on Marc Gasol… completely blanked there. Which is tragic because I specifically asked Lee why we haven’t raped traded Memphis for him yet.
I won’t give on Bogut though… he’s a definite PF.
by grungedave on Jul 17, 2009 8:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If Dwight's a center
so is Emeka.
Besides, his most of his offensive game is in the low-post. He has a decent shot, from what I’ve seen (in other words: the two Houston v. Charlotte games each year), but it’s nothing dependable.
Your friendly neighborhood Dream Shake mod.
by Only_A_Lad on Jul 17, 2009 6:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dude, how many times do you think we've used that picture now?
Eleventy Billion?
The Dream Shake ...on Twitter.
"I think girls are probably just better shooters." - Steve Novak
by Tom Martin on Jul 17, 2009 6:01 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Emeka is a center, so is Chris Andersen.
As long as you’ve got Przybilla on the list, Birdman has to be there.
I’m also skeptical about Big Al – he can play C.
Andrew Bogut and Marc Gasol are also missing.
The Dream Shake ...on Twitter.
"I think girls are probably just better shooters." - Steve Novak
by Tom Martin on Jul 17, 2009 6:04 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I think on the Birdman...
if you’re going to include Marcus Camby, you have to put Andersen there too. The Birdman resembles Camby when he first came into the league… but look where Marcus is now.
"The problem actually is that PER is a extra-long, double high wagon load of horse crap." - timbo (7/3/09)
by tandur on Jul 17, 2009 6:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And one more thing
I think David Andersen will wind up starting for us by the end of the season. Chuck’s good, but he’s better off the bench. Andersen is also 6’11.
The Dream Shake ...on Twitter.
"I think girls are probably just better shooters." - Steve Novak
by Tom Martin on Jul 17, 2009 6:06 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
and he apparenlty has an offensive game
that consists of more than “shotput in the general direction of the basket and tip-ins.”
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by Only_A_Lad on Jul 17, 2009 6:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
rockets fans, look on the plus side, at least you’ll have a good draft pick, cap room and yao back for 2010-11, that means a franchise center, a good rookie and room for a good free agent, so 09-10 will probably be ugly but you’ll be back to being contenders the year after
by CavsLebronFan on Jul 17, 2009 8:14 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
A typical Rockets win will probably be of the 82-79 variety.
Given all of the talk of being an up-tempo team, I think that’s pretty unlikely, actually.
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by Only_A_Lad on Jul 17, 2009 8:41 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
well...
Our FG % might be in the 38% range, so it works.
by grungedave on Jul 17, 2009 10:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hey you guys might get John Wall!!!
by Souwantmyname on Jul 17, 2009 8:59 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
exceedingly unlikely
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by Only_A_Lad on Jul 17, 2009 9:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
this guy must be kidding me?
r u serious were not gonna be able to put the ball in da BASKET. i guess only budinger can score huh?? Grungedave? this u only making people worry dude, when theres not much to worry i know Yaos out soo last ive heard hes been goin out the last couple of years, which is why im not surprised im just at awwww that the front office didnt do anything about it. until now that he misses the hole season? we needed a back up years ago is wat people dnt understand?? but im not worried we still have the same group of guys that trust each other n play tough on defense n play well together the problem was Artest thats wat i saw, so im glad he left now we have a person we need like Ariza a young talent kid that has alot of skills and is still learning the game n im sure he knows the opportunity he has here n hes gonna make the best of it but he and every player including him has to know his role on the team and if they do that im not worried about Yao bc hes not there im kind of use to it by now. we are gonna play tougher quicker n smarter if we do that we’re in da playoffs for sure!!! hey alot of people thought we wouldnt win one game against da lakers n look wat we did???? with Shane Battier there i know he will rally us forward like he did in that series and with some of his scoring might help too so expect him to come out n keep the guys on check playin Defense!!!!!
by da_H on Jul 17, 2009 9:30 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
que?
When you learn punctuation and spelling, I might read what you just wrote. Maybe.
by grungedave on Jul 17, 2009 10:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was about to list other centers....
but then I realized that it wouldn’t make a difference. The Lakers just won a title with Pau Gasol (not listed) at C, so having a legit center is irrelevant depending on the makeup of your team. What difference does a few inches make if the guy is ferocious on the boards and has low post moves. I would rather have Al Jefferson at the center position at the 5 than anybody not named Dwight, Yao (when healthy), and Shaq.
Check out nickandroll.blogspot.com
by n1ck34 on Jul 17, 2009 9:32 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Eh, Jefferson's defense is brutally awful
So don’t speak too quickly. Incredible post player though.
To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.
by Ben R on Jul 18, 2009 4:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
shiit yeah
I second the Al Jefferson comment. That boy is a beast. He was giving Yao the business….unlike Dwight. But yeah, People put too much on height. Hakeem was said to be 7’0" but i remember people saying he was measured a 6’10". Dont know how true it is….But Chuck is way too short to be starting C. I say you shove Dorsey in there and let him get on the job training. Where hes not tall, he makes up in wideness.For now, start Anderson and let Dorsey come off the bench to battle for the starting position.
by jaydottcomm on Jul 17, 2009 10:36 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
well
Just because I said Jefferson isn’t a center doesn’t mean he isn’t any good. The guy is awesome. He’s just a power forward who is awesome.
by grungedave on Jul 17, 2009 11:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well yeah Chuck is short
But if he is best to anchor the Defense among the three C’s (Andersen, Dorsey and Chuck Hayes), I don’t mind Chuck gets starting job. Andersen and Dorsey do not have enough experience on NBA rules (a.k.a Referees double standard on rooks).
by nelson10 on Jul 18, 2009 3:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Dorsey
will be used for his fouls, cause that’s what he’s best at!!!
We might get lucky and he might block a shot or two and grab a couple of boards too…..
"It's who we are," Battier said. "I don't think we're going to get the love of the six foot blonde bombshell. That's what the Lakers are here for. It's alright, I like our demographic."
by DREAM34 on Jul 19, 2009 5:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Left off a bunch on young Cs,but as pointed out,so what
DeAndre Jordan,Clips
Kendrick Perkins,Boston
Spencer Hawes,Sac
JaVale McGee,Wash
Brendan Haywood,Wash-not so young
Samuel Dalembert,Philly-not so young
Hilton Armstrong,NO
The assorted Sonic whiffs,Petro,Swift now BJ Mullens
Kosta Koufas,Utah
Brad Miller-not young for a decade now
And how could you forget Eric Dampier,who once proclaimed himself the second best center in the West?
by Tisbee on Jul 18, 2009 4:11 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
While I don't agree
that the Rocket’s are now the smallest team in the league,
it’s definitely a given that Adelman will adjust…
You don’t know how they’re gonna put the ball in the basket?
C’mon, but I understand cause you’re just having a case of self pity right now.
by altree on Jul 18, 2009 7:05 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
short term memory loss?
It wasn’t that long ago that the Rockets lost Yao and McGrady and had to play with a lineup of Brooks, Artest, Battier, Scola and Hayes. They key name there is Artest. Even with Crazy Pills, we were often prone to bouts of being unable to score – there isn’t a natural scorer in that group except maybe Brooks. Scola can put up points but he’s not going to break out for 35 anytime soon.
There will be days they look great, but there will also be days they simply can’t put the ball in the basket. Swapping Artest for Ariza is only going to make that more noticeable.
Look, the Rockets will find a way to win. It just might not be “easy” wins we get. There will be lots of grind it out low-scoring games. Simply a byproduct of our roster.
by grungedave on Jul 18, 2009 9:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
pot - kettle
There will be days they look great, but there will also be days they simply can’t put the ball in the basket. Swapping Artest for Ariza is only going to make that more noticeable.
Ariza is an upgrade on offense. Despite this latest line on “shot creation” from Artest (which, frankly, I never really noticed with Artest. He’s a decent passer, but we all know what he did when he got the ball – he dribbled the hell out of it and took a needless contested shot. How is that shot creation? He occasionally drove to the basket and created openings, but much of his offense came as a spot up shooter. I think there’s a good argument to be made that Artest is a good roleplayer mistaken for a star.), the fact is that Ariza is a more efficient player and one who plays within the system. The only way it will make any offensive woes more “noticeable” is by taking away a great scapegoat.
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by Only_A_Lad on Jul 18, 2009 11:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Artest
did not create offense. Anybody can stop at the 3 point line,catching the offense halfway off guard, and jack up a shot. Granted, Ariza is not a scorer in any shape or form, but he will make better use of the shots he does get.
To me, this argument just makes the case that we really need a perimeter shooter. I am not sure if Von Wafer or Jermaine Taylor can be that guy…someone who can hit the open 3 with regularity. We do not have a shooter, like an Eddie House
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by n1ck34 on Jul 18, 2009 12:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
artest gone fine by me!!!
he didnt make plays for others he sucks at reboundin da ball n plays for himself, yeah well if i remembered this was a team sport n thats wat we’re gonna be a team this year not dribble dribble dribble shoot it or passin it to yao down low turning it over lots of times!!! its gonna be more of a pass style team and good decision makin, exactly wat Rick Adelmen system requires to work!!!! i bet artest doesnt do as good as he did here in da H hes gonna mess up the chemistry over there with da lakers, Ariza is gonna thrive with Adelmens system he he already shoots better is quicker sometimes can be a game changer n i belive hes workin hard to make this team n himself better n will bring up his scoring to 16ppg!!!!! to all the haters believe it!!!!
by da_H on Jul 18, 2009 3:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't care how he did it, but he did
Artest is a career 16+ppg scorer. He’s proven it. He may be a ballhog, but he CAN put the ball in the basket.
Ariza, however, is still a work in progress. He has never averaged more than 8.9 ppg. Even in his breakout this playoff season… he only maxed out at 12 ppg. I’m just afraid Trevor’s last 20 games were an anomaly.
by grungedave on Jul 18, 2009 1:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
so, even if he hurt his team by shooting
you don’t care?
Isn’t that exactly what you hated Rafer for?
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by Only_A_Lad on Jul 18, 2009 1:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
apples/oranges
Artest … for all his faults… was still a MUCH more accurate shooter than Rafer.
Rafer couldn’t shoot and he often failed to do the little things to make up for it.
by grungedave on Jul 18, 2009 1:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yes, he was
Artest was at least able to usually hit an open shot. But that’s not my point. The argument is not about whether or not Artest or Rafer was more aggravating to watch, it’s about whether or not Ariza is an offensive upgrade over Ron. Artest displayed the same problems that Rafer did on the offense: he took too many bad shots when his teammates presented better options.
In contrast, Ariza seems very willing to defer – that’s shown by his low usage rates and high efficiency, as well as our eyes. At the very least, Ariza seems like he’ll be a more efficient player than Artest next season. And that leads me to believe that he’s the better player to have on the team, given what Adelman is asking him to do.
Ariza knows when not to shoot and to instead look for Brooks coming off of a screen or Scola in the low post. Artest, regardless of his point totals, hurt the team by either not seeing those openings or ignoring them.
It remains to be seen whether those openings will be present for a team without a true star player (crossing fingers for McGrady, though, and I think Adelman’s offense will create shots aplenty). But I feel pretty confident in saying that having Artest next season wouldn’t increase the chances of those openings appearing.
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by Only_A_Lad on Jul 18, 2009 2:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
even if we assume everything you said is true...
Ariza cannot be a defential player anymore. Problem is, I don’t think it is in his nature to be a “go to” guy. Artest had no problem with that. Look at our roster now… not a single go to guy on the floor. That is really, really bad.
by grungedave on Jul 18, 2009 2:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think it's a refreshing take on team basketball.
It simply means that the Rockets find the open man instead of using the star as a crutch.
Besides, I think you underestimate the Rockets’ abilities. As long as Brooks gets some space (and, again, the system should create that space for him), he is a knock-down shooter. Same goes for Scola, Ariza, Landry (around the basket, anyways), even Battier. The question is if the Rockets can create that space, and I think a combination of good passing, individual speed, and up-tempo basketball will do so.
Your friendly neighborhood Dream Shake mod.
by Only_A_Lad on Jul 18, 2009 2:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I, for one, think that this group of Rockets can thrive without a 'go to' guy
OK. It is going to be very difficult to imagine how a Rockets team without Yao/T-Mac together can play. The only sample size that we have is the four games that the Rockets played against the Lakers without T-Mac/Yao. This is arguably a small sample size. But, that is what we can base our comments on, and here is my take.
I think the biggest problem that the Rockets posed to the Lakers in the last four games without Yao, was that it was difficult for the Lakers to concentrate on one player to lock down, and throw the Rockets off guard. When the game was fluid with crisp passes, it was a bit of trouble for the other team. When they got bogged down, the Rockets lost badly.
So, I think, offensively, this year’s team is slightly better than the team that played the Lakers the last four games. I never thought that Ron did anything significant in that series (defensively Shane Battier shadowed Kobe for 70%+ of the time), nor do I think that he played within Rick’s system.
So, I think, what the Rockets will have next season is a team, that will have to rely on some outside shooting to open up the floor, and with a lot of crisp passing. The defensive effort has to extend to all 10 players. Here is what I would like to see in the next year’s rocket team:
- A solid 10 man rotation
- Distributed scoring; 5-6 people scoring in double digits every game;
- An entertaining game with a greater number of assists
- A few blow outs
- Make it to the playoffs
The team appears to have a good mix of intelligent players: Battier, Scola, Hayes, Ariza and potentially Anderson. The younger guys Landry, Brooks, Lowry, etc. appear eminently coachable within a system. Most of them are rather hungry. Given the Rockets demonstrated scouting ability and the player development, I would not be surprised if one of the really young guys such as Dorsey, White, Budinger actually pan out.
It should make for an interesting team basketball.
Kari
by Kari on Jul 19, 2009 12:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What's next for the Rockets?
All things considered, this is a blessing in disguise. What doesn’t kill you makes you stronger. I am trying to look at the plus side in all these bad luck.
I say, let the Rockets management do their job ( I trust them) and let the players play (I’m a fan, I support them no matter what) and see what happens.
by nelson10 on Jul 18, 2009 3:36 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
In Morey We Trust
As he’s shown the last couple of years, he knows what he’s doing. He knows a lot more than the average fan does, so let him do his job & surprise everyone. Remember, he literally stole Scola from the Spurs for practically nothing. How do we know if he didn’t just do it to the Hawks with Andersen? Right now, it’s wait & see.
by The Night Owl on Jul 18, 2009 7:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
im jusrt sayin???
r u serious were not gonna be able to put the ball in da BASKET. i guess only budinger can score huh?? Grungedave? u only making people worry dude, when theres not much to worry i know Yaos out so last ive heard hes been goin out the last couple of years, which is why im not surprised im just at awwww that the front office didnt do anything about it. until now that he misses the hole season? we needed a back up years ago is wat people dnt understand?? but im not worried we still have the same group of guys that trust each other n play tough on defense n play well together the problem was Artest thats wat i saw, so im glad he left now we have a person we need like Ariza a young talent kid that has alot of skills and is still learning the game n im sure he knows the opportunity he has here n hes gonna make the best of it but he and every player including him, has to know his role on the team and if they do that im not worried about Yao bc hes not there im kind of use to it by now. we are gonna play tougher quicker n smarter if we do that we’re in da playoffs for sure!!! hey alot of people thought we wouldnt win one game against da lakers n look wat we did???? with Shane Battier there i know he will rally us forward like he did in that series and with some of his scoring might help too so expect him to come out n keep the guys on check playin Defense!!!!!
by da_H on Jul 18, 2009 4:18 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
okay, that's enough of that.
Look, you’ve been told to clean up your writing, and yet you’ve failed to do so.
For future reference, everyone, I want you to read what you write before you hit the “post” button. If it looks like something your 13 year-old sister might scrawl in an IM conversation, you need to delete it and start over.
Your friendly neighborhood Dream Shake mod.
by Only_A_Lad on Jul 18, 2009 4:46 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I second that...
At least run it through a spell-check. Also, a giant paragraph like that usually isn’t made up of less than 4 sentences.
by RPM1 on Jul 19, 2009 5:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ariza a Big Plus
The notion that gaining Trevor Ariza is a net loss for the Rockets is off the mark, in my humble opinion. His quickness – especially when it comes to defensive side and steals – will be a crucial addition on the court to a degree that stats alone will not fully reflect. Giving Trevor a more important role with the Rockets than he ever had at LA will also translate into bigger scoring numbers at a time when we will definitiely need all the help we can get.
That said – the Rockets still need to make a big move at center. What about ditching T-Mac for Chris Bosh of trading him from Carlo Boozer and someone with a little height? If someone could find a magic wand I’d ask for both of them in return for Mr. McGrady but I just don’t see how that would work in the real world.
What does everyone think?
by fedres on Jul 18, 2009 11:44 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
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