Counterpoint: Chuck Hayes' supposed "star" performance last night that really wasn't

so he makes a few layups or cuts to the basket. Here comes his predictability. He comes to the elbow, receives a pass, wisely doesn’t dribble(which adds to his predictability), takes a step while keeping his pivot foot and sometimes almost travels(forcing an errant pass) while waiting for someone who can actually create a play to come to him before shoving the ball in his hands.

1. His teammates refuse to stop passing him the ball, which I think he would be okay with

and

2. He refuses not to shoot at least 3 stupid shots a game that he has no business taking.

taking anything that Bill and Bull say with a grain of salt.

I understand taking anything the Houston based Chronicle writers post with a grain of salt.

But were you watching the Houston feed of the game or the New York one…. but I personally think Walt Frazier is fairly intelligent basketball mind… and Mike Breen isn’t too shabby himself.

And they were GUSHING about Chuck’s defense… and for that matter his play all over the court. His outlet passes, his rebounding… practically the only bad thing they said about Chuck last night was that his free throw percentage was bringing down his team average.

the best low post player on the other team, and without help. You saw what happened at the beginning of the game when Stat had Miller or Scola guarding him. It was easy for him. Hayes shouldn’t get a lot of minutes every night, because you’re right, on offense he can only make wide open lay ups. But against the best bigs in the league, he has to play a lot of minutes because our defense inside is so poor. People might not like it, but that’s the reality. Like Morey said, Hayes changed the game last night. He quietly does that a lot on defense.

but any tall(6’8" and above) player with a jump shot can beat Chuck. And don’t get me started on the real 7 footers. Pau always abuses Chuck and yes I understand that Pau is a special player, but it’s not even so much as his actual skill, he just uses his long arms to drop the ball in the basket right over Chuck. Chuck is good against Shaq type players, who have no real offensive moves except to just try and back down their defender. I do like the fact that he reaches for the ball and often successfully strips it. He just doesn’t have height.

the Clerks reference by the way. Well done

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Maybe it’s the Chronic angle, but I saw a very good effort. Say what you want about missed layups but Amare was 6-7 before the change to (mostly Hayes) and 4-13 after. I, too, would like to see more of Hill, but Hill’s problem last night wasn’t ineffectiveness, or Adelman, really, it was silly fouls.

 I think we need another word for contested 3ft shots other than layups, otherwise teams sure miss a lot of “layups” against LA, and Boston. NY missed some actual layups, they also missed a lot of contested close shots.

I usually find them good and pretty helpful whereas on here you don’t give shit to the Clutch Fans-esque attitudes that some people will regularly roll out.

I’ll take Hayes in spot duty if the rest of the team doesn’t want to play defense. Scola needs to nut up and d-up on every play but he’s burning himself out on offense to help keep Houston hanging in there. Once Hill gets acclimated to how he’s gonna be called we’ll see Hayes’s minutes draw down anyhow. By all means, I agree 4 on 5 ball is never the greatest, but it’s a team effort to move people around and Hayes passes well enough to warrant keeping him in the high post. So long as the guys are moving he’s not as useless as you think.

I think he is good when someone is hot, he can come in and cool them down, ie Garnet, Pierce last year, and Roy in the playoffs when he took a crucial charge. I think Miller and Hill should be ahead of him and get more minutes most nights. Hill makes a lot of mental errors but is still learning and can get better with time, he just needs playing time.

Naa this is my opinion
Scola best PF/C on the team strong scorer, good rebounder, good eyes when double teamed, ok defender on average players

Hill prospect, athletic thats just about all i cann say i mean yea hes got abit of speed strength hes adding a mid range jumper, but is slow to get into the game usually cums in and has 1or2 fouls/turnovers in first few mins

Chuck best downlow defender bar Yao’s big swotting hands, horrible scorer, strong rebounder slightly improving on shooting/freee throw but not alot or enough

Yao does it really matter? heathy or not he wont get us to the playoffs hell help but this is considerin him playing less then half the mins in a game and 2/3 of the games

Milller hes got range in shooting decend rebounder/defender slowin in old ages but solid center

Jeffries decent defender/rebounder but aint seen much this season

Scola clearly the best should be gettin the mins and #miller at center when yaos out hill should be gettin mins but not alot only on good match ups id like to see a little more Jeffries and less Chuck keep him in rotation coz hill aint mature enough and we need the mins for a good defender not an ok 1

Hilarious, I agree.

FREE JORDAN HILL!

Rewatch that game and start to pay attention around 3 minutes into the second quarter . There is a reason why everyone is praising little Chucky for his work in this game.

I normally agree with your views on the Rockets, but this thread was particularly abrasive considering the timing and the direction. Look, we all know that Chuck can’t do anything, and I mean ANYTHING, fancy on the offensive side of the ball, but that isn’t his job. His job is offensive rebounds, defense, and passing.

In Adelman’s system, he utilizes a good passing big man at the top corner of the paint to drag out the opposing center and clear out the middle for guys to slice and dice. And don’t be fooled, Hayes is a very, very gifted passer. During one play against the Knicks (at the 11:10 mark in the second quarter, Hayes gets the ball in his spot, swings a perfect pass through two defenders getting Lee an open three which he obviously missed, Hayes gets the offensive rebound through three Knicks, and alley ooped it back to a cutting Lee. Competent point guards, let alone power forwards, would have trouble making that series of moves that quickly.

Defensively, yes Hayes is not only “above average”, but he is lock-down and the best we have and it would be “negligent” to ignore the fact that when we need a big man to work for his shots we send in Chuck and he normally gets the job done. And he can guard virtually anyone, remember Paul Pierce’s futile game-winning attempt last season and we stuck Chuck on him? Perfect defense. And the man had 9 rebounds against a very athletic young team, 4 of which were offensive and taken in a swarm of desperate Knicks doing anything for a grope of leather. And yes, we won because they beat themselves near the end of the game, but Chuck had a substantial role in changing their mentality from, “we’ve got this one in the bag” to “damn, I forgot that we were the Knicks”.

We are all frustrated as Rockets fans right now, but we’ll come back, we’re the Rockets. Adversity is our motivation. But, let’s not sit here and deny Chuck Hayes the credit of having one of the most ubiquitous defenses at his position. (P.S.- If you’re going to comment on a player as a detriment to the success of the team, post it when he actually negatively affects us, not after a game when he actually effectively contributed.)

that Pat Pat got sent to the D-League, even though it’ll keep him from getting complacent and out of shape. We need an athletic, well rounded four; our fours are too specialized. I appreciate what Chuck Hayes does night in and night out, but I do agree it’s not smart when The Wagon gets 32 minutes in a game. Xiane’s two-iron reference was perfect. When used well, Chuck Hayes can help discombobulate the opposing team’s offense and give us a stronger team mentality. Ever notice during the pregame shoot-around Chuck practices shooting three’s? It’s like watching someone hump a door handle.

But I do like what Feigen does. Gives excellent, in-depth coverage. He’s one of the best.