For the record: Jordan Hill is pretty good.
by grungedave on Dec 15, 2010 10:19 AM CST
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Well, I hope Rick Adelman was awake during last night's game. Especially this part. Though since Jordan Hill actually got extended playing time... I doubt that Coach Sleepy was.
23 minutes, 4-8 FG, 5-5 FT, 5 reb, and a +/- of +11 (team leading). Not bad for part-time work. He was even nice enough to foul out with 25 seconds left and let Chuck Hayes get some extra burn.
Seriously though, Jordan Hill is good. He's not perfect. He's not Yao Ming circa-2006. He's not a guaranteed future all-star either. But he's currently a better option at center than Mr. Hayes. And he sure as hell deserves more playing time than the statue formerly known as Brad Miller. I mean, honestly, when did Brad Miller turn into Brian Cook?!?! If we needed someone to stand at the three-point line all game and get no rebounds on D, there are far more efficient and cheaper options!
The problem is that Rick Adelman strongly disagrees with my assessment of his front-court options. Chuck Hayes has not necessarily been "bad" this year, but he hasn't exactly been great either. He is also still only 6'6" on a good day. And he is not going to get any better (or taller) with time - you already know what you are getting with the Chuckwagon. Meanwhile, Miller is a former Kings player who is familiar with Adelman's "system" (whatever that really is). Thus, I guess Miller is grandfathered in for "x" amount of playing time given his certain modicum of stature. Even though it is mostly undeserved when better options are readily available.
On the flip side, Yao is still hurt. Sad to say, this will never change.
I have now reached acceptance of Yao's inevitable fate.
Hill nevertheless keeps getting buried. Even though he's shown a propensity to be very good at both ends of the floor on many occasions. Yes, he's still slow to rotate. Yes, he can be a little awkward against quicker forwards and centers (who isn't?). Yes, he is prone to stupid mistakes. Each of these things, however, can only be cured in one simple, basic way: give the man playing time. Real, actual playing time in games that matter. How else do you expect him to improve? He's not a rookie QB in the NFL who is going to learn by holding a clipboard and watching the veteran guy get crushed by the blitz. He's a basketball player. So if he is to be part of the Rockets' future, let him freakin' play! Because Brad Miller sure as hell isn't the future savior.
/end rant
(Alternatively, I highly suggest the Rockets look into trading for Washington's JaVale McGee. Dude is a legit 7-footer with crazy hops and athleticism. Yesterday's trade for Williams shows the Rockets are trying to get younger and more athletic - so let's go for the tallest and most athletic version!)
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We'll never get McGee
He’s the cornerstone of that shitty franchise, along with Wall. They won’t let him go.
by basketball is cool on Dec 15, 2010 10:34 AM CST reply actions
I thought the cornerstone was where Arenas hid his guns
The BANHAMMER delivers the real justice
That's just turrible
The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence
Bill, Bull and Clyde will be taking their talents to South Texas
by joshsm07 on Dec 15, 2010 12:09 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Brad isnt that bad
something is really working with Brad Miller and Jordan Hill coming off the bench together. Jordan Hill is a killer PF and a lost C. The offense runs through Miller when he on the floor. Brad sets on the elbow and the 2 guards cut, Jordan set a back pick for either Bud or Lee and they get easy layups. ITS THAT SIMPLE! If there is resistance at the rim Hill is there for the offensive rebound or the guards are already set for the open 3’s. THAT is Aldemans system.
Chuck Hayes is playing Yao’s limited minutes so when he comes back, the rotation isnt changed. I also agree with you about McGee!! That would be a perfect replacement for YAO! Athletic, can block shots, and take it to the rim…. lets hope something else goes really bad in Washington so they can trade him!
yeah agree with this
don’t understand the brad miller hate. he’s been able to make his plays from the top of the key with regularity to cutting martins, budingers and lees.
You're right about Chuck
For the most part. Love the guy, but playing Chuck isn’t going to do anything for now and the future. Shaping Jordan HIll into a solid player should be one of our prioritites. Problem is, he’s a true PF, and he won’t make it in this league at C. He’s not going to start over Scola anytime soon, so he’s kind of stuck getting minutes where he is.
by basketball is cool on Dec 15, 2010 10:37 AM CST reply actions
Hill is wildly inconsistent
especially on the defensive end. He also loves to foul. He is getting better and we all see it, but he’s getting the right amount of minutes.
by twinkilling0303 on Dec 15, 2010 10:45 AM CST reply actions
you know who else was "wildly inconsistent" early in his career?
Jermaine O’Neal. He had the same kind of start and Portland buried him behind an aging Dale Davis. Whoops. That turned out horribly. Let’s not repeat history.
You expect consistency
from a second year forward who has been screwed on playing time? If you have a child I’d hate to see it learn how to walk shy of 3 months.
I don't usually plan out my days because the word "premeditation" gets thrown around a lot in courts today.
I didn't say he should be consistent
but the way he is playing, his minutes are right where they should be. Hopefully he keeps improving, and his minutes will increase.
by twinkilling0303 on Dec 15, 2010 2:42 PM CST up reply actions
As Dave already stated
the only way to get that consistency is to get more minutes. You don’t develop consistency in limited appearances. Especially when he’s flashed brilliance as much as he has. You reward that brilliance with more time, live with the mistakes, and help him come of age. It’s the same issue that people who don’t understand if we would have kept Rudy Gay he wouldn’t have become what he is today.
I don't usually plan out my days because the word "premeditation" gets thrown around a lot in courts today.
And I believe he is being rewarded
right now and in the past couple of games. He has shown he can handle more and he’s getting it. And coach Rick has preached that players get playing time by the way they perform on the court and in practice. Earlier in the season Hill just wasn’t very good in games. I think bringing him along slowly has helped him, he seems to understand more of the offense and is only fouling on defense because he wants to block every shot. I honestly think he’s picking things up faster than Landry did, so hopefully he keeps it up.
by twinkilling0303 on Dec 15, 2010 2:47 PM CST up reply actions
inconsistent or not
The team seems to do better while Hill is on the floor. And the best way for Hill to improve is to play more. All agree the team needs to improve. Hill has potential to improve whereas Miller and Chuck don’t. Playing Miller and Chuck big minutes will not bring improvement. It will only keep the team stuck where it is now … below average.
I don't think giving Hill
big minutes and taking away minutes from Chuck will help this team at all. In fact, I think it would go the other way…and that’s not Hill’s fault, it’s just the state of the team. Chuck is the only inside defender we have, and Hill has shown with more minutes come a lot more fouls. And like I keep saying, the best way for Hill to improve is thru practice. That’s the way guys get more minutes, and I trust coach Rick’s ability to see if he deserves those minutes. And obviously the front office does as well.
by twinkilling0303 on Dec 16, 2010 11:17 AM CST up reply actions
Why would Washington trade McGee
Especially to us? I don’t think we have anything they would want or need except maybe Courtney Lee or Chase Budinger. If they are dumb enough to give us Mcgee for one of (or both of) them then we do it but i guarantee who ever in DC signs off on that deal is getting fired and murdered then next moring.
GO ROCKETS, GO TEXANS, GO ASTROS (EVEN THOUGH THEY SUCK)!!!
past history
This is a team dumb enough to bid against themselves and give Arenas $126M.
At the very least it’s worth seeing what they might want for McGee. He is by no means “untouchable”.
I'd trade a 1st rounder and Chuck Hayes
But you do have a point with Arenas. In their defense, you can’t anticipate all the things that happened to him. He can still play, its not like he pulled a Dampier.
GO ROCKETS, GO TEXANS, GO ASTROS (EVEN THOUGH THEY SUCK)!!!
I agree, he's not untouchable
I think McGee + T-Will can give the Rockets the Defense they are lacking. The Rockets would be so balanced and deep. But what do you give up??
Yao and Budinger for McGee and Arenas to make the salaries work?? IDK.. what other suggestions?
No Arenas!
I really don’t see a reasonable deal that could land us McGee.
GO ROCKETS, GO TEXANS, GO ASTROS (EVEN THOUGH THEY SUCK)!!!
Battier probably
They’d want Shane and they’d make us take a contract (which we can other than Gilbert). It can be done… throw in Bud and maybe even Courtney Lee…?
Past history
concerning a dead owner and a guy who isn’t running the show anymore. History is only applicable if you have similar circumstances. In this case it’s only the team name and city.
McGee really is untouchable if you’ve seen the Wizards play and how bad they’d be without him.
I don't usually plan out my days because the word "premeditation" gets thrown around a lot in courts today.
True enough
but that team is building towards something and no one builds a house without a firm foundation.
I don't usually plan out my days because the word "premeditation" gets thrown around a lot in courts today.
Blake Griffin is untouchable
if you don’t believe that then I don’t know what to say.
GO ROCKETS, GO TEXANS, GO ASTROS (EVEN THOUGH THEY SUCK)!!!
wrong
If Miami called and said “hey, would you take LeBron off our hands for Blake Griffin…” Sterling would say yes immediately.
Hell, once that racist bastard Sterling finds out that Griffin is part black, he might get rid of him just for that!
If they swapped Griffin and Bosh
Miami would get the legit 4 PF they need and the Clippers would get the legit SF they need.
GO ROCKETS, GO TEXANS, GO ASTROS (EVEN THOUGH THEY SUCK)!!!
Untouchable
Everybody keeps telling me Yao is untouchable .. or just will not be traded because of the mythical China market.
I think Yao's status
comes from the confluence of “we don’t know”, face of the franchise, and that the surgery he underwent took a year for Ilgauskas to get right, so we’re in that wait and see mode if that is the same.
As for the market, I think people overrate it but it’s definitely there.
I don't usually plan out my days because the word "premeditation" gets thrown around a lot in courts today.
Speaking of Yao
Does it seem odd to anyone how we are handling his injury? As well as Brooks’ injury? I know these guys are just about the most competitive humans on the planet and want to help their team win, but is it odd that they think they are healthy and the team is still holding them out? There may be no reason to rush Yao or Brooks back and risk them getting hurt, but we seem well past that point since their target dates were a week or two ago. Especially in Brooks case where he doesn’t have a history of injury like Yao.
Bynum was out for months and months and practiced for less than a week, then he gets 17 minutes of action last night.
I’m not a coach, and I’m not a doctor, but the way this organization has been handling these injuries just seems peculiar. Anyone else have an opinion on this?
Jordan Hill is Alright
I will not describe him is pretty good. He is OK and he has ways to go. He had five fouls yesterday – that is 10 points to the other team. Fortunately, we were playing SacTown, and something like this against a better team would have been a disaster.
You may not like it, but I think, Brad Miller is doing exactly what Rick Adelman needs. He stretches the floor so that there is more space for cutters to operate, and he is damn good passer. If you can get a high quality pass to a cutter (that will result in either a shooting foul, or a shot at/near the rim), you don’t need to get a rebound. He has done that.
Rick Adelman has done an outstanding job so far – with all the changes that he has to endure in the line up. On the average 5-6 players average in double digit scoring, there have been more assists per game, and I think as the season wears on, I think this group of Rockets (with or without Yao) will make the playoffs.
The best education that Jordan Hill can have is to know that he has to EARN his playing time. The responsibility of the coach is try to WIN each and every game, with the talent that he has. The culture of winning will do Jordan Hill more good than ‘growing’ him as his team loses. That I consider as good coaching.
your math confuses me
"He had five fouls yesterday – that is 10 points to the other team."
Huh? For one, he had 6 fouls, not five. And fouls do not necessarily equate to 10 points for the bad guys. Sometimes fouls are necessary to prevent inevitable baskets/layups.
also sometimes fouls are non-shooting fouls
i think one of his fouls was a charge as well
I was perhaps not clear in the post.. No need to get confused
3/6 fouls committed by Jordan Hill in the game were shooting fouls, and 2/6 fouls resulted in turnovers.
http://www.espn.go.com/nba/playbyplay?gameId=301214010&period=0
Yes Jordan IS
Very Good
They need to let him start and play a lot more
just like landry he got better with time and playing time.
He still makes a lot of mistakes
But I agree, it’s better to learn from those mistakes and just get better with playing time.
If you're a fan of basketball, watch a movie called Sonicsgate. It's free, just google it.
Why the BMiller hate?
When he’s in the game, he can basically play point center. He makes the offense run with tremendous passes. His D and rebounding are bad, but he’s a backup center, and as backups go, you could do much worse.
maybe if he were CP3
Sorry, but Miller’s passes aren’t anything that anyone else on the roster can’t do. Even Chuck Hayes is able to make those same passes… Bud and Lee and Scola, too. It’s not so special as to allow him to continue to be such a statue on the court.
Man, from my perspective, if you made a highlight real of the 40 greatest passes on the Rockets this season, at least in the half-court offense, about half would be Miller. Some of his stuff reminds me of Nash. Bud, Lee, and Scola don’t seem to be in the same league.
This is just memory and impressions, but I really think you underestimate Miller passing the ball. Now whether that outweighs the many limitations is another story, but he was clearly brought in, on a fairly modest salary, to be a backup center and no more. The guy’s practically shooting 50% behind the arc too.
my point is this
Miller used to be a true center… he could play back to the basket… away from the basket… mix it up… get rebounds… everything.
Now he’s reduced to being a one-dimensional player on offense. And that’s sad because it’s potentially impeding playing time for a lot of younger players.
I really disagree with you here
It’s not just the spectacular passes he makes through pinholes, it is his entire court awareness. He hits people where they want the ball and at the right time. The offense simply clicks when he’s on the court. I can’t count the number of times where he has gone out and the offense stagnates and he comes right in and the team responds. Oh, and he’s one of the clutchest shooters on a team full of 4th quarter ghosts. As a mentor to Jordan Hill and a backup C, you could do worse.
by Patrick Harrel on Dec 15, 2010 3:58 PM CST up reply actions
also
I don’t hate Brad Miller… it’s just (a) he’s really aged badly or (b) they are using him ineffectively
Wow, where have I heard the Jordan Hill line before
Oh yea. Also, Miller is very effective, just because he’s not ripping down boards at an astronomical rate doesn’t mean he’s bad by any means. He has showed up well for us this season. It also just so happens that when he’s on the floor we see Jordan Hill, a taller backcourt, and more board crashing than with the first unit having rebounding delegated generally to 2-3 people tops.
I don't usually plan out my days because the word "premeditation" gets thrown around a lot in courts today.
Miller is great
on offense, but has no D. Amare torched Miller, and I said before we made the trade that David Andersen had more D then MIller. And everyone knows Miller and Hill are taller then Scola and Hayes.
by since86rocketsfan on Dec 15, 2010 3:46 PM CST reply actions
I think we are over-emphasizing Jordan Hill's PT issue
He’s still young and wildly inconsistent. He is showing nice and steady growth. He is more a PF than a C so his best role is to backup Scola. And above all, he also doesn’t seem to have an issue with his current PT
Our real problem in the frontcourt is that Hayes shouldn’t get so much PT. He’s a good instant-defense solution, but he’s not a starter. I wouldn’t mind giving his minutes to Yao even if Yao does nothing other than standing around the rim altering shots.
So maybe it’s all about Yao. It seems to me that our coaching staff and medical staff are not agreeing on how to use him. I think RA is insisting that Yao should start and start every game, while our medical staff thinks Yao is not ready.
So once Yao is ok we will be fine, for this year. Next year? We are probably looking to bid for Marc Gasol….
Hill is good
Hill has been improving. He is better than I thought he would be. The important thing is that Hill has potential to improve. Miller doesn’t. Miller will only slowly worsen. And Chuck won’t get any better either, he won’t grow another mm. Miller and Chuck will get worse and Hill can get better. Hill will get better with more time … and give him some food and some time in the weight room or something. I think both Hill and Bud need to see a lot more time on the floor, maybe start them and bring Battier and Hayes off the bench.
What does it say about the Rockets that we are relying so heavily on Miller?
The bench unit plays well with MIller, no complaints about his play, but I’m bothered that RA is relying heavily on him to solve his coaching issues. Teams are getting more athletic in the frontline; meanwhile our style is like a throwback to the 90s.
One of the reasons MIller was brought in was to teach the younger guys. Hopefully some guys are picking up the passing and assisting part.
Hill fan here
I think Hill is OK with this playing time. Rick is really putting a lot of emphasis on developing him, here is my unproven, built-on-ridiculous-axioms-theory why. First, let’s look at the player.
Hill as I see him is certainly not a bonehead, but I think he is an introvert and a laid-back guy who can get comfortable. He doesn’t have any motivational problems, I wouldn’t call him lazy or anything, he just gets comfortable with things and the world passes him by when he gets sleepy (yes, sleepy, the irony). He regularly needs a wake up call from someone.
Now, Adelman is not a hands-on approach guy, we all know that, since e.g. Artest pointed it out many times (that’s why Adelman could handle him quite well). It was really strange how hands-on Adelman got with Hill, reacting on his first mistake every time he set foot on the floor and even punishing him by taking him out of the game. He also tried quite a lot of combinations of frontcourt players to see who glues well with who. Then he figured out that Brad Miller was the guy the pair Jordan with. Brad in fact is instructing Jordan around on defense as well as on offense. Jordan seems very willing to listen and Brad seems to have a good influence on him basketball-wise. I always viewed the signing of Brad as a plan with multiple objectives. We get a big body who can spread the floor well, who is a charismatic, fun guy, who knows Adelman’s system and who is also a veteran and capable of teaching younger, rawer bigs. Miller has tremendously high BB IQ and we can only hope that Jordan learns as much from him as possible.
As you can see Adelman really DOES care about the improvement of Jordan Hill. I also would sometimes like to see him more on the court but I firmly believe that his minutes will slowly improve as the season goes. He will get his 26 come playoffs time if he makes the strides he should make.
You simply can’t ask more than that right now. Hill is a young raw big and you have to make him get used to playing IN the system. On the long run, both him and the organization will profit more from teaching him step by step.
Why it's good to keep young prospects in check
Hill was compared to Amar’e by Pringles. I think Amar’e got a bit out of hand during his early (first two) years, he weighed too much emphasis on his O and neglected learning proper, lockdown D. He has all the tools to do it. I think that happened because
a) he saw his offense led to quick personal glory, fame, popularity, winning ROTY, etc.
b) he’s an extrovert and his environment didn’t try to constrain him a little bit.
Now he is stuck as an excellent but not unstoppable offensive player, but he always gets burnt on the defensive end, I think that won’t change now.
An other example would be Tyreke who clearly needs a more hands-on approach. He is a cocky young athlete and last year’s efforts to get him over 20 ppg will clearly bite back. We can see it right now. Instead of making him learn the system, teaching him a bit of humility, they created an inefficient scorer from him who is stuck in ball hog mode. As physically dominant as he is, he just doesn’t know to run a team, instead he is trying to live up to that 20 ppg standard. In the meanwhile he is sacrificing his all around game which would be more important in this stage of his career.
As any young guy Hill too can become cocky and I’m happy Adelman doesn’t let that happen. He probably won’t be as prolific a scorer as Amar’e is but I’m almost sure he will defend much better than him and yes, if he puts in the effort, he can become a nice well-rounded starter (or more, but let’s not get our expectations too high, it’s too early to tell).
So all in all, I’m really happy how Hill is being coached right now. Adelman really shows he gives a damn about Hill.
I think your theory and approach are spot on
I have to keep reminding myself that when Yao returns we’ll most likely see him start, Hayes head to the bench and Miller and Hill on the second unit together. The only remedy for Jordan’s inconsistency though is more playing time, which a reduction of Hayes will do so.
Also, I wanted to add, one knock I’ve heard on Jordan is people saying “He doesn’t seem to want it.” when he’s on the floor, by everything else I’ve read, he’s just a casual, relaxed guy, he’s passionate but not fiery. Our T-Will acquisition, that’s fiery.
I don't usually plan out my days because the word "premeditation" gets thrown around a lot in courts today.
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