Taking The Road Less Abused On The NBA Trade Machine
Andre Iguodala might be a perfect fit in Houston. He can create. He can defend. He doesn't admit to drinking Hennessey at halftime. And while we're at it, he can probably speak Chinese, teach Trevor Ariza how to be selective, and solve Daryl Morey's unfinished math equations on the blackboard. A true renaissance man.
Problem is, I don't want Andre Iguodala. Trade him to Phoenix, Ed Stefanski. Get him off the market, and as far away from the heads and hearts of Rockets fans as possible. I don't want to see Andre Iguodala in a Rockets uniform any time soon.
Atop my wish list, I have someone else in mind. His name is Caron Butler, and, if you really think about it, he is no different from Saint Iguodala. Actually, no, that's wrong - he costs $4-5 million less per season, and is off the books in 2011. Yup, I'm drinking Caron Butler's kool aid.
Andre Iguodala won't win the Rockets a championship. Neither will Butler. A major step of the trade process is to have realistic expectations, and if anyone here is under the assumption that the Rockets are one player away from a title run, then they need to reconsider their stance. Whatever move Morey decides to make, it won't be to propel the Rockets to elite status.
The idea of simply building a so-called "championship team" is incredibly overrated. Five years ago, we all thought that T-Mac and Yao were destined to bring rings aplenty. Now, we're all exchanging ideas on how best to kick McGrady to the curb. Teams wish to be competitive, and if a championship comes of it, that's fantastic. Barring a miracle, the Rockets aren't going to stumble upon a championship series birth any time soon - that's the sobering reality of it. So, if winning is still in the best interest of Les Alexander (which it is), why not continue to put a competitive product on the court with Butler instead of Iguodala, and save a ton of money in the process? I know Les wouldn't mind that.
As far as on-court production is concerned, Caron isn't much different from Iggy. They can each create, but can't really shoot threes as well as they think. They turn the ball over at about the same rate, and can rebound from the guard position. Perhaps most telling is the fact that each has always performed well statistically, but hasn't necessarily won very much.
Many people complain about Caron's defense. Trust me, if you get the guy to commit, he's a really, really good defender. You won't see it this season, because he's playing for a team with no direction, and for a coach whose system he has yet to buy into. There's no incentive to do anything but try and look good for other GM's and not piss off teammates too much in the process. And knowing Caron, pissing off teammates or jeopardizing his chance to play is the last thing he wants to do.
This comes from an SI article on Butler a few years ago:
The stereotype of the entitled and self-indulgent NBA star does not apply to Butler. From the day he met Good he was trained to believe that every day could be his last on the basketball court, that his criminal record might cost him everything if he committed but one more mistake. His instinct for self-preservation seemed to draw him to disciplined, highly structured coaches like Good; Jim Calhoun at UConn, where Butler played for two years; the Miami Heat's Pat Riley, who took Butler with the No. 10 pick in the 2002 draft; and the Lakers' Phil Jackson, who picked up Butler for the 2004--05 season as part of the Shaquille O'Neal trade.
Pat Riley? Phil Jackson? Instinct for self-preservation? Sign me up.
The only true differences lie in assists, where Andre is king, and in free throw shooting, where Caron reigns supreme. Lord knows the Rockets need someone who can get to the free throw line and convert. But really, in looking at everything that each brings to the table, Iguodala doesn't exactly stand out. Andre/Yao isn't going to take us anywhere that Caron/Yao can't. And while Andre may have youth on his side, it is overshadowed by his mammoth contract, which doesn't expire until 2014. If anything, it's better to cross our fingers for next season with Caron before we have to cough up the dough for Aaron Brooks and Carl Landry once they expire. If we don't like how Caron fits, we can choose not to re-sign him and use that money to retain our own guys. At least we won't be stuck fishing for cash with Iggy aboard. Caron gives us options, even if they don't include him.
My point is that if the Rockets decide to even make a deal, it would make much more sense to think short-term with Butler. I like Andre Iguodala as much as anyone, but he's too much of a financial handicap. He's overpaid, while Caron is reasonable. It's not the popular move, but it's the right one.
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Comments
Plus, both of them can create and hit game winning shots and make plays at the end of games.
I don’t see any area where Iggy really brings something that Caron doesn’t.
by VBG on Feb 8, 2010 3:22 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Love Iggy...
but his contract is way too bloated. The Rockets need the flexibility for sure to sign their own players and a deal with Washington for Butler & Co does just as much for us on the court without the financial burden. I’m excited for something to get done, but if it doesn’t then I trust Morey. I just hope someone else in the West doesn’t get a great deal on someone instead of us…
by jroberts5 on Feb 8, 2010 8:01 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
I'd much prefer the shorter deal.
Although I’m not expecting any deal.
Significant gravitas shortfall expected in 2010.
by Xiane on Feb 8, 2010 9:13 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
I'm not expecting any deal either
But great arguments and great points. Before I ‘saw the light’ with Yao, I honestly thought Houston should have chosen Caron Butler with the #1 pick. He was a tough guy, a competitor and a good looking guy from UConn, and I felt like he’d have excelled in an uptempo offense with Francis and Mobley. However, this is a good chance for Houston to get the 3rd best player from the Yao/Amare draft onto their roster.
The only problem is that Washington is a complete disaster, and you know they’re going to want to sluff off some bad deals on Houston WHILE also asking for the “goods” from us.
Let me say this, if the names “Aaron Brooks” or “Carl Landry” come up in conversation for a trade, WALK AWAY DARYL!
B^2
In Daryl Morey, Rick Smith and Ed Wade we (usually) trust.
by Nitroberg on Feb 8, 2010 9:40 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
The above reference is to the 2002 NBA draft, when both Yao and Butler were available
B^2
In Daryl Morey, Rick Smith and Ed Wade we (usually) trust.
by Nitroberg on Feb 8, 2010 9:40 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
DARYL, STAY WHERE YOU ARE AT........
OUR RECORDE IS NOT GOING TO BE IMPACTED BY ONE PLAYER, FROM HERE TIL THE END OF THE SEASON, NOT SAYING THAT BAD BUT REALLY JUST KEEP SITTING, WAIT FOR THE SUMMER!!!!!!!!
by kmbrly429 on Feb 8, 2010 11:09 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
i do kind of agree that butler would be the better move
if only for the reason that the price of getting iggy would be dalembert whose contract sucks
by AlDe2356 on Feb 8, 2010 11:12 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
The only concern I have is age Isnt Caron like 30? One of the problems this organazition has had is no youth. Yes we are making waves with Landry and Brooks, but Battier, Scola, Tmac, Cook and Anderson are 30 or older. The NBA is a young Mans game and we need a little more youth.
by wadero on Feb 8, 2010 11:14 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Wut.
I don’t have the stats, but I’m pretty sure we’re one of the younger teams in the league.
Cook, Andersen, and T-Mac don’t count, as they all play limited/no minutes and Scola is not really an athletic guy to begin with, and is not 30 yet. Yeah, Battier’s still getting there, but that’s really only one guy.
Butler’s 29, and only has one more year after this year, so he’ll be 31, which really isn’t that big of a deal in the end.
Minnesotan Rockets fan
by Barragan on Feb 8, 2010 11:53 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Hmm
I don’t think you can support your “old” argument with Tmac or Cook. Neither one sees the court.
That leaves 2 players at 30ish. Given the way the Rockets operate, this is not a deal breaker. Also see Lakers, Los Angeles and Spurs, San Antonio. The old team is a problem when it breaks down, mainly, and if its ALL old. I think you need a mix of old/young player skills. Battier and Scola have (knock wood) not been prone to much breakdown and they aren’t 36 or something.
Significant gravitas shortfall expected in 2010.
by Xiane on Feb 8, 2010 3:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
One other thing
Scola looks like a guy who can play a really long time. A really long time. There’s nothing about his game that really goes away with age – he wins with guile, power, intelligence and drive. I’m thinking he’s good into his mid 30s, if not beyond, ala his closest comp in my mind, Kevin McHale.
Significant gravitas shortfall expected in 2010.
by Xiane on Feb 8, 2010 3:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
My only concern with Scola
Is that he has been playing for such a long time already. He turned pro at what, 15?
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by Tom Martin on Feb 8, 2010 3:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Fair point.
Could be too many miles on the odometer at some point. He plays hard.
Significant gravitas shortfall expected in 2010.
by Xiane on Feb 8, 2010 3:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
This is sadly mistaken
Many people complain about Caron’s defense. Trust me, if you get the guy to commit, he’s a really, really good defender. You won’t see it this season, because he’s playing for a team with no direction, and for a coach whose system he has yet to buy into. There’s no incentive to do anything but try and look good for other GM’s and not piss off teammates too much in the process. And knowing Caron, pissing off teammates or jeopardizing his chance to play is the last thing he wants to do.
He hasn’t played defense for five years. In fact, he’s playing better defense this year than in any other year. Watch how clueless he is off the ball.
You know you'll get devoured by Cheaney, Wallace, and Juwan Howard.
by Mike Prada on Feb 8, 2010 11:21 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
I disagree
as a Wiz and Rockets fan. I think Caron is capable of playing some d. Maybe it isn’t an excuse to play no d on a team that plays NO d(Wizards) but he is capable of covering guys. It is hard to play defense when you know the other 4 guys on your team are probably saving their energy for the other end. But if you put Caron on the floor with a bunch of guys that are gonna play their asses off on both ends. And put him in a situation where he feels like he is a leader, then he is gonna play defense.
by returnofswagger on Feb 9, 2010 12:03 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Butler is too old and injury prone
And Mike is right, he hasn’t played good defense in years. He’s an okay player, but a deeply unsatisfying solution, as far as I’m concerned.
Really, I don’t mind Iggy’s contract. He’s young and sturdy, a great defender, and a team player. The kind of guy you can slot into the team’s core and be happy with his performance for years. The new CBA could bite us, true, but on the other hand, how likely is it that we’re going to sign any stars (or even near-stars) in free agency anyway?
by OremLK on Feb 8, 2010 12:03 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Butler's a nice player
But I’ll still feel left down if he’s what we get for Tmac. Throw McGee in the deal though and I’d be a lot more enthused.
by mob16151 on Feb 8, 2010 12:23 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Personally, I'd feel elated if we get anything besides a sucking vortex of paychecks for McGrady.
Significant gravitas shortfall expected in 2010.
by Xiane on Feb 8, 2010 3:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yea I like Javale McGee future center for the Rockets!
by mangelq75 on Feb 8, 2010 8:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Rockets (or any team) would have to take Arenas for that
as i’ve read, Wizards don’t want to part with McGee but would if such a deal came across.
contributing nothing substantial to your blog, since 2008!
by misterterrific on Feb 8, 2010 10:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
They want something in return
According to NBA.com: The Wizards are determined to get a young player back, though, and the Mavericks’ only non-geezer is rookie guard Rod Beaubois — while Houston has a young guard like Kyle Lowry and an expiring big man contract in forward Luis Scola to pair with McGrady’s $22 million expiring deal.
With that stated,Caron is a really good player, but I really don’t know how much the Rockets are willing to give up to get him.
by Bee Deezy on Feb 8, 2010 1:29 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
The wizards have lost their dang mind
Take McGrady and the cap relief next season. Anything more tham T-mac is simply to much to give up.
by mob16151 on Feb 8, 2010 2:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree. I think that's why there's no deal coming.
We’re offering cap relief in exchange for players we want. Teams don’t want that, ok, fine. We’ll have a nice chunk of money to play with this summer. Cash is king in the NBA right now.
Significant gravitas shortfall expected in 2010.
by Xiane on Feb 8, 2010 3:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If I was Dallas there is NO way I'd send Beaubois - how much longer can Kidd last? That guy is their future PG.
He’s as fast as Brooks.
Significant gravitas shortfall expected in 2010.
by Xiane on Feb 8, 2010 8:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
i don't like either
butler’s 30 and i’ve never really seen him as that good. iguodala isn’t getting you anywhere if he’s your second best guy. i’d rather start building young talent now. if we were getting mcgee or speights/young i’d be much happier with both deals.
by bk219 on Feb 8, 2010 6:40 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I have to admit I was ALL for the Iggy trade all this time.
But after seeing him play again against us I don’t think he would help anymore than what we have right now. I’d much rather have Joe Johnson & since he or Bosh will not be traded to Houston this year I say we have to just keep what we have & try to develop our future team (Brooks, Landry, Budinger). Why should we trade for Caron for just 2 years unless we use him as trade bait!? If not might as well keep the money & resign our EC’s we want to keep & PRAY Morey can pull off his best feat to date & snag JJ or CB in free agency which is almost impossible since we will have no money to do so. Morey won’t make a trade to make one we all know this & I guess Caron could help a lil but I don’t think I want to commit that money to him. I have to admit though IF the Warriors are still interested in trading Randolph I’d be looking to grab him! He’s cheap, young, tall & (hurt right now) but have Sleepy get his ass in the gym & bulk up & IF some way possible do a sign and trade for Bosh. We’d be BIG with Yao, Bosh & Randolph. I doubt this can happen now with Raps & Hawks winning in the east but Randolph I’d definitely try to get. We need a SG & PF but we also need height.
by mangelq75 on Feb 8, 2010 8:20 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Tmac trade off.
It is very difficult to trade someone who does not get to play. Charlotte has a few guards worth having, D. J. Augustin or Acie Law with Nzar Mohammud, in my opinion, would be nice to have both can shoot the outside shot and getting another center would be benificial for the playoffs, if we can get in. Would playing T Mac be that bad, how far behind the eight spot do we need to be.
by Mariolopezsr on Feb 9, 2010 12:37 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
I wish the Hawks sucked so we could get Joe Johnson off of them
by VBG on Feb 9, 2010 1:50 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
The hitch...
is in the players it will take to make it work. The only way for the Wizards to pull off their deal is to offer more salary than the Rockets can with just McGrady. Problem at that point, of the players we could deal, such as Scola or Lowry (Don’t want Scola included though), we come out at a push for a result that is arguably not worth it.
I like Feigen’s response to something I threw out there, it’s most likely going to have to be a three team deal. I kind of thought about a deal that would work for all three teams, meet the needs and still fit the bill. Problem is it comes out looking lopsided without some fantastic salesmanship form Morey.
Hou: Gets Haywood, Butler, Iguodala
Was: Dalembert, Cook, Kappono
Phi: McGrady, Foye, Taylor
Houston gets what they want, flexibility being able to move Battier of need be (I would hate to see him go but defensively we’d be all set with wings like Ariza and Iguodala) and some nominal salary relief with Haywood.
Washington gets salary relief via Kappono and Cook with Dalembert being a viable trade chip this summer/next summer and a serviceable center to pair with McGee/Blatche at the 4. This is where the salesmanship comes up as it’s the weakest link in this trade chain.
Philly gets salary relief in abundance between McGrady and Foye, gets two younger players in Foye and Taylor and if Foye does well, they can re up. Williams is more of a 2 guard in a one’s body, but they’d get three good 2/3’s to plug into that system and about 26 million off the books or so next season. I think the onus on this deal is the idea that Philly most likely won’t make playoff noise if they do make it, so why not tank and get a shot at Wall and be about 19mil under the cap (Barring a lowering, even if it lowers, they’re looking about 15-13 million).
Also, weird to make my first post after lurking on this site for a while, but figured I’d sign up as a one to one trade with Washington scares the hell out of me since the result is arguably nothing that would improve anything this season or next season besides creating more of an oversaturation at the 2/3 and forcing us to move Battier or the newly acquired Butler anyhow. Add that third team and I feel more comfortable with the deal. Though I’d still enjoy Dalembert as just a great back up for Yao next year (Grossly overpaid or not, he’s one hell of an insurance ticket).
I'm always right, this isn't conjecture, merely statement of fact.
by BD34 on Feb 9, 2010 9:49 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

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