Are we selfish bastards ?
by NVP on Jul 19, 2010 7:46 PM CDT
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It's rhetorical, of course we are all selfish at times. But are Americans more so than foreign player?
While guys like Yao Ming, Luis Scola, Dirk Nowitzki, Tony Parker, Anderson Varejao, Pau Gasol almost always participates in their respective country's national team ventures (Barring injuries and recovery). Almost the entire re-deem team has decided against committing to USA basketball this summer, and most of them were noncommittal before the the nightmare team happened . While nobody understand more about the toll of playing year round basketball better than the Rockets, I cant help but think patriotism comes behind capitalism sometimes for US players.
Now I understand if your body is aging, you take better care of yourself and use all the rest you can get, so guys like Kobe(though he turned down one earlier in his career), J-Kidd, Duncan, Garnett(though both he and T-mac pull out of one for marriage), they get a pass from me since they do have legitimate reason regarding the longevity of their career. I can even let D-wade(who has his own injury concern at times) off the hook, Paul just recovered from an injury. Maybe not so much Lebron and Bosh due to the fact they are young and relatively healthy and owe their unholy matrimony to the program, but for at least the media fiasco and other issues that comes with relocation, I may not agree but I can at least understand. Melo got married, which is like universal excuse for I cant play this summer. These are legit guys who already played together(3 of them will play a lot together) and some of them should all be back for the Olympics.
However, for guys like Rajon Rondo, Al Jefferson, LaMarcus Aldridge to waver and even turn down an opportunity to represent their own country really burns me. These are young man who are on top of their game, given a chance to shine on an international stage for their own country. They, for whatever reason, turned it down. Mind you , it's not even to play in the world championships, but only to practice in Vegas.
While the US is plentiful in basketball talent, I think we have seen enough to know the rest of the world has caught up. However, while our players' national spirit declined over the years due to perceived domination, others has only risen. While it's not the end of the world to no longer dominate, it's another new episode in the long running series " The End of an Great Era", back when nationalism was at an all time high and people cared about their country's pride enough to dominate the crap out of a game
Thoughts?
No cursing in title. No pirated material, such as links to online game streams. Do not cut/paste entire sections of content from other websites. Thanks.
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Crazy how times have changed
In the 90s it was a huge honor to play for team USA. Even Hakeem became a citizen to play. It just seems like the NBA players feel like they dont have to play to concrete their legacy’s.
It's a different era for sure
With the world-cup just finished, I cant help but try to draw parallels from teams like Brazil, Argentina who are just traditional power with phenomenal players that has ridiculous careers, yet still gives it all for the country when called upon. I know soccer is a different game and World cup is a much bigger event, but still it incites the national pride. Basketball should be able to do the same
The following of USA basketball doesnt even compare anymore.
Im not sure if its just our nation being cocky about USA and thinking there is nothing life to prove after the Dream Teams or what. Other countries do not have the same problem we do with getting their best to play this is for certain.
To answer your post
yes. I’d like to come up with something witty to elaborate on that, but I’m really digging, best not waste the option.
I'm always right, this isn't conjecture, merely statement of fact.
Selfishness is certainly a part of it.
Players clubs breathing down the players neck is another – with foreign players Dirk is the best German player, bar none. The pressure for him to play is immense. Can you say that about anyone on the USA team? Maybe.
For the redeem team I think its three things (which you covered as well) – 1. All the redeem team can do is fail. They would be expected to (ho hum) win again, if they played. 2. – They aren’t so sure they could win it all again. Kobe (though it pains me to say it) basically bailed the USA out. Everyone else was looking around for someone to do something. 3. The milage of international play, plus post season means that team USA plays in something approaching 110 competitive games a year. That’s simply a ton of wear and tear.
"Each in turn... volunteered his suggestions, his invaluable suggestions."
Twitter - xiane1
The Dreamshake
It's not new anymore
The idea of a “Dream Team” has been around since the 1992 Olympics. It’s no longer a novel idea. And, let’s face it, winning a gold medal for one’s country is not really that patriotic anyway. It’s not like the U.S. gets a head start on the next war or earns immunity from an attack if they perform well in the Olympics. No one watches the games and if they lose they get treated like gigantic losers, and they risk injury. There’s not really a lot of upside, except apparently global marketing.
However, the teams that pay their salary need their players at top form. So, they are actually being great team players by NOT playing in the Olympics. Anyway can go to the Olympic Village and get treated like a rock star. It’s the player who prioritize winning for their city first who are the true un-selfish ones. That’s just my opinion though.
by ClutchFanSince94 on Jul 20, 2010 12:04 AM CDT reply actions
See patriotism
shouldnt be about war, while we associate the term with the patriots who fought for independence. Patriotism is about love to one’s country. (btw head start on a war, horrible notion). It’s an honor that you’ve been chosen by you country to represent it and should be treated as such.
While I understand there are legitimate reason to consider one’s career longevity and age, I dont see fearing there is something to lose reputation wise as a legit reason, because it should be above you with national pride. While it is only sports, it is a way for your to serve your country not through war but through competition. And injury risk is present whether you play or not. through competition is much more demanding, which is why I’m advising young fellows to go.
The war example is actually spot on given the USA vs. USSR hockey rivalry and that one of the reasons we started the original dream team was because we were tired of Russia’s team beating us because they used professionals and we used college athletes. Nationalism and athletics have long been interwined. My point is that it is completely absurd to believe that the athletic feats of individuals either positively or negatively reflect on an entire country. However, sports have long been used as a surrogate for war when two countries with animus towards each other face off in the same athletic event.
The point I was making though is that this notion of patriotism through athletics is completely absurd. There is no connection. America is a free country and no one is entitled to watch their favorite athlete compete on the olympic team. The vast majority of sports have no media presence, so the Olympics are a vehicle for the athletes of these sports to recieve recognition with medals and with endorsement deals. The USA swimmers don’t compete out of patriotism. They compete because they love their sport, the olympics is the biggest vehicle for their sport and Olympic glory is the path to financial wealth. Patriotism has not entered the equation.
Just because someone wants to take a break over their summer vacation does not give anyone license to impugn their patriotism. That is a breathtaking leap in logic that because Player A wants his summer off that Player A is not a patriotic American.
Finally, the meaning of the olympics is that people VOLUNTARILY compete to the best of their abilities. We could have someone’s junior varsity team out there and if they competed hard then that would be worthy of the olympic ideals. The US does NOT need to win every game by 50 points and be fielding the greatest team in the history of sports.
by ClutchFanSince94 on Jul 20, 2010 6:35 PM CDT reply actions
Herein lies the problem
The USA swimmers don’t compete out of patriotism. They compete because they love their sport…
This is part patriotism, part competitive fire, and all heart. If you love the sport, if you love your country, you want to let them be represented as best you can. The NBA is the pinnacle of basketball competition. What message are we sending internationally if WE can’t field a team of quality professionals in a sport WE have claimed in a competitive field based around love of the game and passion. Guys like Scola, Ginobli, Yao Ming, Dirk Nowitzi, and Aderson Varejao pride themselves in their sport, their play, and their love so much that they’re willing to get out there and do it. It seems as though Americans will whine about wanting time off and being tired but if you’re from Argentina your motor never stops and you’re out there annually.
It’s not so much we need to call their patriotism but that we must examine their love of the game as a farce if they voluntarily walk away from their honor of being selected to represent the country that contains “The highest level of basketball competition.” Plus, what kind of joke are we as a country when we create a sport all just to get our asses kicked by Europeans.
I'm always right, this isn't conjecture, merely statement of fact.
I'm not take that huge of a leap
I understand players have careers, have personal life that they tend to, and I understand the decision of not competing does not equal not loving one’s country. I’m also no saying “if we are good at sports, we are a better country.” I care more about the national pride it inspired to the general public
I mean athletes are entertainers, they usually entertain a region, excites or devastate a region. This is a chance to expand that influence an greater region and inspire a greater feeling. Nationalism is part of an equation whether one likes it or not, because that’s the same for any kind of world competition. It’s not the Cold War, but people still tune in to root for their nation. Whether it’s US versus Canada in Hockey, or US versus England in Soccer, even US versus the world in Swimming. Part of the allure of these world event is the nationalism, Most people cant name 3 soccer players out of the US Team, or anyone other than Micheal Phelps, but they watched all the US matches and all the Olympic swim events, you cant tell me nationalism isnt part of it when it incites nationalistic pride like that.
If it’s “oh.. I should really take care of body” or “oh I just got married and have enjoy family life for a while” I’m fine with it, but if it’s “Oh there are zero benefits to my personal brand, and what if we lose” then to me that’s a little sad. What’s worse is that they just turned down the chance to practice and compete for roster spots, they turned down the experience. Guys like Chris Kamen who never though he had a chance, had to get his German citizenship to even see the chance to play an Olympic Game, and of course, he gets ridicule for it.
I just thought athletes should be prideful, it’s within their job take pride in their accomplishments whether it’s having better personal numbers, better team records, winning championships, half of what they do is seek the pride and glory that come with being better. Selection into the dream team used to be the equivalent of recognition that you are one of the best, and whether you used to be enemies on the court or not, here’s your chance to come together for a common goal. You can change teams throughout your career, but this is the one team that you were always be on the same side(i guess unless you’re Chris Kamen). It’s not like the all-star game when there arent true competition.
but it is a different era, players willing to do that without the call of a national team. They can get their NBA ring doing that. I guess I wont see a Barkley or Malone anymore, and I guess that’s ok
Most foreign player jump at the chance to be on their national team, perhaps it’s because the possibility of the NBA scouting, maybe for the international press US player dont need, but there guys with great ability who has no intention of joining the NBA answers the call as well, they play their own professional basketball. it’s not NBA, but they have their seasons to.
Anyways, It is voluntary and It really adds nothing to their career other than just another glory title. So it’s their choices to make. Their team is how they make a living, and the money you make getting a medal certainly dont compare to the endorsement deals these guys get, so it is logical. It doesnt sit right with me, but I’m not gonna burn them at stakes
50 points? boy, It’s certainly been a while since that has happened. Even with the redeem team, we had to hold our breath several times.
Also, for foreign players, the Olympics is a great chance to be discovered or scouted against NBA competition. For the NBA players, that benefit really isn’t there.
by ClutchFanSince94 on Jul 20, 2010 9:02 PM CDT up reply actions
I did address that
like I said, others with firm Euroleague position still do it too. But like Xiane said, Foreign player does receive greater national pressure for being the very best of their nation NBA or not
Sigh. It just seems like people don’t get it. I don’t understand the idea that people have that they, as citizens of America, are justified in complaining that another person doesn’t run and jump for their entertainment for free in an "olympic" competition. We all know that the Olympics are about TV ratings and endorsements and very little else. The original purpose of the Olympics was to showcase competition. The fans should just support the people who WANT to compete and support them in their pursuit of excellence.
Complaining that LeBron James or whoever is not competing is degrading to the people who are out there competing, who have CHOSEN to be there.
I also don’t think it’s fair to call into question someone’s love of the game if they choose to rest during the summer so they can be competitive during the regular season and playoffs. One could argue that someone who loves the game would rather shoot jump shots in their driveway during the summer than to compete in an overly commercialized farce that we call the Olympics.
Finally, as a reminder – YOU ARE NOT ENTITLED TO HAVE ANOTHER PERSON DO ANYTHING THAT YOU ARE NOT PAYING THAT PERSON TO DO. You want LeBron in the Olympics, open your wallet.
So, if you like watching Olympic basketball, watch Olympic basketball, but don’t complain that other people aren’t working for free for your enjoyment. Appreciate the ones that are there.
As for the message it sends that we may not be sending the best of American players or that we might lose a game, that message really wouldn’t be anything because there is nothing of importance tied to the outcome.
by ClutchFanSince94 on Jul 20, 2010 8:59 PM CDT reply actions
This is essentially what is wrong with American views on the world
and the people complaining about players shirking their national honor are justified. The US is a joke around the world because it used to be a semi-idealistic country that stood for values of honor, duty, and service. As pointed out in great detail by yourself, our bottom line and core value as Americans now is the dollar. Gone are the days when Americans care about representing their country and their respect on a world stage. Now they only care about maximizing their contracts, padding money, and endorsements. At least foreign players look at any opportunity to play the game as a privilege. US players bowing out see the game as a fucking bank machine (Same way Propagandhi complained that music used to hold some sacred premise of a higher artistic calling but now it’s treated as some money machine).
Also, let’s not continue to call the Olympics a financial thing, I’m sure the US commercializes it and host countries try to patronize it too, but you’re taking a LOT from the people who train year round to get out there and represent their country by saying it’s just about money.
I'm always right, this isn't conjecture, merely statement of fact.
America has always been about working hard and getting paid. That’s why we are great. That’s why the west got settled and our economy is the envy of the world (even now). Sorry. That’s the way it is. You can’t blame people for making money on something that they are good at and for making rational economic decisions.
by ClutchFanSince94 on Jul 20, 2010 9:55 PM CDT up reply actions
The US is a joke around the world because it used to be a semi-idealistic country that stood for values of honor, duty, and service
The US is a “joke” (read: regarded by many non-Americans with a mixture of disdain and fear) for reasons intimately related to its “semi-idealistic… values.” It is entirely because of the United States’ understanding of itself as a nation with an explicitly messianic vision of liberalism (not “honor, duty, and service” which are more of a product of 19th-century nationalism – though certainly invoked by the intellectual leaders of this nation in the 18th-century – but rather of some of the very values you criticize) that it pursues agendas that lead to these emotional responses to its presence.
Teleology aside, the notion that somehow these emotional responses will at all be affected by the decision of Dwyane Wade or LeBron James to play on the United States team in Turkey this August is laughable. It is laughable because attitudes around the globe will hardly change, even among the relatively small portion that follows the FIBA championships, regardless of who plays and who stays in their mansions. But it is also laughable because it presumes that anyone – Wade, LeBron, us – should care about the misguided level of patriotism attributed to these games.
This is a game. I believe that basketball is the greatest game ever devised, but it is nonetheless a game. And, ultimately, what you are espousing is the notion that these players ought to give up possibly several tens of millions of dollars so that the United States might gain some small measure of glory from that game – or, rather, so that a small portion of the United States population may think that our nation has done so.
The United States was founded upon the principles of liberalism, and so I frankly am willing to credit athletes with the same respect and liberties we grant the rest of the population. I am not required to volunteer my skills and talents to the nation (or, rather, to a committee appointed by itself to represent the nation) at every opportunity. Conscription died in this nation precisely because it robbed men of their free will, and if we are not willing to commit such a crime in times of war in the name of saving the nation, we should not be willing to do so on an intellectual level in times of peace in the name of winning a game.
Now, I am sure you will think what I have written is simply a cynical view of the world. Hardly. I am an idealist through and through (in the political sense; only occasionally in the metaphysical). I simply confine my idealism to things that matter (get it?). It is naive at best (and dissemblance at worst) to pretend that the Olympics (or the NBA, or to a lesser extent FIBA) is about much more than money.
But, in any case, why does that matter? It is a fundamental fact of life that most everything is about money. It is the primary focus of our lives – the process of economic reproduction and consumption – and ideologies that work acknowledge this instead of sublimating it into misguided forms of nationalism. So huzzah for commercialism. At least it’s honest.
Mind. Officially. Fucked.
Thank you for the most intelligent thing I’ve read on the internet for quite some time. But I also feel as though the idea that the US has always been about the bottom line pursuit of the dollar is a bit of a misnomer if you look at philanthropy through our big money earners. Our charitable donations through major earners such as Carnegie and what not (The precedents set by them, not the actual donations themselves since, obviously, they are dead.) are no longer as prevalent aside from Bill Gates, Warren Buffet, and a hand full of others.
I was also not attempting to frame the idea that the world will look at this rejection and reflect it poorly upon the US, I meant to convey that it truly is a microcosm for why we are, at our core, very weak. It’s a greed swayed society rather than any retention to something that might be an ideal. Surely you can agree that through each set of decades, for each developmental era in the United States a certain set of values was embraced across a national ethos. Earlier in years it was more about abstract concepts and ideas (Economics was a part, but not THE part). As we have progressed as a nation, emphasized the individual over the group and subsequently lost touch with the Musketeer notion (All for one, one for all) we have become a nation (as a whole, not its entirety) of self serving money loving people.
Maybe I have this attitude because I’ve done AmeriCorps and it seems to be a full on idealistic organization (Hell, I’ve lived a full year on less than 500 dollars a month). But I’m also extremely realistic as well, hard to escape it after doing undergrad work for history and international relations.
I'm always right, this isn't conjecture, merely statement of fact.
But I also feel as though the idea that the US has always been about the bottom line pursuit of the dollar is a bit of a misnomer if you look at philanthropy through our big money earners
I am not saying that the United States is or ever was some sort of Randroid “utopia.” My point is that the values of the US have always been particularly concerned with a vision of liberal individualism. We typically think that we all bear some “civic responsibility,” and we have consistently advocated the idea that we have a duty to support the republic, as well.
But what I am asking you to consider consists of three questions:
1) What are the meaningful ways in which we can actually contribute to this nation?
2) Does playing a game for world prestige constitute a “meaningful way?”
3) Does disparaging those who do not wish to play that game somehow ignore the core values of American society?
Generally speaking, the first question can be answered fairly broadly. Most of us consider military service, volunteer work, or other direct contributions to the public good very obviously meaningful. On the outskirts of meaning, however, we typically think that simply working at one’s job, attempting to generate wealth or happiness are some version of that, as well.
In response to the second question, I would think that playing in the FIBA tournament is, maybe, one of these tangential versions of “meaningful” service. It, at best, simply generates a tiny amount of prestige for the United States. Its citizens gain a small measure of happiness from winning the tournament. Overall, I’d say that this is less meaningful and less useful than what these men do in their day-to-day jobs, which generates many hundreds of millions of dollars each year for the NBA, and thus represents a large amount of “utility” for the people of the United States and the globe.
I think the answer to third question is a clear “yes,” given what was said in the previous two, as well as how we handle our day-to-day lives.
I meant to convey that it truly is a microcosm for why we are, at our core, very weak. It’s a greed swayed society rather than any retention to something that might be an ideal.
I take issue with this for two reasons. First, our society is hardly “weak.” This canard is trotted out whenever someone wishes to disparage American culture, but I wonder what its proponents consider to be a “strong” society.
American society and our culture is something envied around the globe. I do not mean this to say that American culture is somehow inately superior to all others, but that we must consider that when our products, our conception of the self, our art, our values, etc. are consumed and demanded across the world by peoples who inhabit more “traditional” (and thus less “greedy” or “weak”) societies, we are demonstrating a mass-appeal.
Why is that? Why does a culture that directly concerns less than 8% of the world’s population hold such sway over the peoples of Asia, Europe, South America, and Africa?
It is because, I submit, that we have established in America (and elsewhere, in other “greedy” and “decadent” cultures) something that cuts to the very heart of humanity. That “something” is not so simple as Gecko-esque “Greed is good,” but rather the idea that the individual rather than an amorphous community is what is important, and that (for the most part) what is good for the individual (as an intellectual construct) is good for his community because it is inhabited by similar persons.
Second, I take issue with your statement because, as I suggested, this is not a “greed” based society, but an “individual” based one. The two are similar, but I suggest that the difference between the two is the difference between Randian egotism and Rawlsian/Kantian/liberal governance. We may be primarily motivated by economic need and economic decision-making calculus, but this does not mean that we are craven individuals unconcerned with the needs of others. We really do care about others – that is precisely why you seem so concerned, yourself.
So, how does that matter here? Well, first, the point is that there is nothing wrong with what these men have decided to do (or, rather, what they have decided to refrain from doing). Second, there is very little reason we should ask them to do this thing, and much, much less for why we should criticize them for it.
we have become a nation (as a whole, not its entirety) of self serving money loving people.
We have become what Jefferson and Paine and Madison and Hamilton and all of the Revolution’s foremost thinkers, as well as its intellectual descendents, dreamed of. We are, in some sense, Kant’s Kingdom of Ends. (Indeed, we have surpassed their somewhat limited visions – we now include non-whites, women, and non-heterosexuals in the equation)
Someone took high school debate?
Question 1: On the whole i agree with your view.
Question 2: I may not necessarily agree, but im not sure it matters. Its certainly a valid point of view if you choose to see things that way.
Question 3: You then go on to say that the answers for question 3 somehow link the answers for the previous two.
I get the notion that you are saying that players do enough simply by doing their job, and that playing in something like the olympics is not very important so it doesnt matter? Please correct me if I am misinterpreting what you are saying.
Moving on you attempt to justify society by saying but everyone else wants to be like us so we must be the best. Its our individualism that makes us the envy of the world.
I would counter that its not our individualism but more a result our political and economic dominance over the past few decades that has allowed us to spread our
I would even take it a step further in saying that our disregard for community has garnered ill will and animosity in the international community, and created a bad image of americans.
I cant quite claim to truly understand the ins and outs of Kant’s kingdom of ends, but it seems to be based off categorical imperative. And through my also limited understanding of categorical imperitive, I would apply that same standard to everyone including myself. If there happened to be some major international chemical engineering team I would gladly offer my services for the nation. If I were about 6 inches taller and could ball I would be even happier to represent America when the opportunity arose. And if I were to turn the olympics down because it didnt do enough for my “brand” I should hope someone else would knock some sense into me.
As to if if i view humans as a means or and end or even which view is right I cant say. The truth is that the ideal generally stands in the middle.
The real world doesnt work that way.
Most ordinary people dont make decisions purely for economic reasons.
Further the system we live under is far from purely capitalistic.
Capitalistic ideals may provide the underlying foundation for our current economy, but there are rules, regulations, and outside forces that shape the way we do business.
To think that money is the only driving force behind the world is a narrow, shortsighted, highschool textbook view of life.
Emotions, thoughts, ideas can and do factor into our decisions. athletes are public figures, role models, citizens and most importantly normal people. I dont think its unreasonable to think that they would care for things such as honor, prestige, and patriotism.
Its a free country and they are entitled to make whatever choice they want, but then dont expect me to not be disappointed when they dont make the good guy move.
P.S
Think back to the Lebron “Decision”. Were you not dissapointed that he didnt chose a team where he would be the alpha dog rather than Dwade’s sidekick? Sure he can go to whatever team makes him happy but I think most other people would have been happier had he chosen to go to the bulls or even better stayed in Cleveland and brought the city a championship. Ideals such as the spirit of competition and Loyalty do matter.
Lebron?
I’m totally cool with Lebron not there, in fact he probably made the right decision to not be there this summer because he’d incite a media circus(and i think we had enough of that).
I’m not forcing anyone to go or vehemently bashing them for not going. Like my title, it’s a question for opinions. I feel like they are turning down an honor that guys like say Kamen, may never get. Win or Lose, it’s a matter of competition and should be left out on the court.
the fact is US audience will tune in even if it’s an all college player team, they’ll be kind of disappointed that the best of the country arent being represented, but they’ll pull for the team anyway.
US athletes does have medal bonus, but it’s nominal compares to the kind of money basketball players are used to seeing.
Ok, but that’s some serious backpedalling when the title of the post calls people “selfish bastards” for not wanting to be in the olympics. That is a reasonable final opinion though.
by ClutchFanSince94 on Jul 20, 2010 9:53 PM CDT up reply actions
That was just an title to get people to click into
I didnt proclaim “WE ARE SELFISH BASTARDS” rather I asked a question, are we? I mean on the surface it would seem other countries’ best are certainly less indecisive on the subject matter compare to our own.
The post itself was actual rather forgiving, where i said i really have little quarrel with most of the redeem team not playing this summer, and most of them are committed to play the Olympic. My problem is with so many young guys on top of their game just decide to flat-out turn down the opportunity. There is honor associated with the selection and there is something to be said for players willing to participated and accept the honor of being one of the best with little incentive other than the game and earning some pride, and it seems to be not as important to this newer generation of American player
Civic Duties?
I can see turning down a bid due to health reasons or some legitimate concern. Eg. Amare and the insurance reasons. He wants to play but is unable to due to valid concerns.
When you are that talented I feel that you have a civic duty to represent your nation.
Money does drive alot of what goes on in this world but paying taxes is not the end all of what you must pay.
There is a reason why we go for jury duty (even if we may not always want to).
Its a reason why so many join the armed forces.
There is patriotism and pride for a country there and I dont think its wrong to question someone when they shirk away from their responsibilities when they are called to action.
The freedom to choose has been paid for heavily in the past. I personally feel a responsibility to pay back my dues. I wasnt born a U.S citizen and although I didnt really do much to earn Citizenship but grow up here, I still feel the pride of calling america my home. Call me an idealist or call me a fool.
I guess it comes down to what your concept of Nation and Civic duties are. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.
You know
just about 4-5 years ago I would’ve been asking “Why be proud to call the States your home.” But something odd has ticked in me over the last few years that I actually find myself nominally patriotic. I look at the US now (I really think it’s most just because Obama helped give me belief again, not just hope, belief) as not being the greatest, but being something pretty damn good. I like the way you pointed it out too, we have people who put themselves in harm’s way to possibly die because they generally feel that they need to represent their country (Bold is my take), yet we have a few prima donnas who don’t feel like getting out on the world stage, using their talents, and showing that they are, indeed the greatest in the world and where it comes from.
Yes, I know I set the Olympics to sound like an international dick wagging contest, but hey, why not?
I'm always right, this isn't conjecture, merely statement of fact.
To summarize...
So, to summarize. There are some of us who believe that individuals should be free to do anything they please so long as they are not hurting others. And – as long as they are not hurting other – they should not be judge negatively for doing so. Lebron James has decided to play for Miami (not Cleveland and not Team USA) and no one has had their property or freedom taken away.
The flip side of this coin are those who feel that athletes should be beholden to their own view of “the greater good.” Lebron should have stayed in Cleveland or played on Team USA to serve some “greater good” which may or may not actually be a greater good. Some say the league is best served by having a super team that will generate interest and others believe that each team should have only one superstar. HOWEVER, these people are attempting to impose their own ideas on an individual who’s free choice and free will is what should be paramount. Once we start saying Lebron James is bad because he chose to play for Miami then what is to stop someone from criticizing you for leaving your current job for a higher paying one if the “greater good” is best served in your current position?
The debate is thus between peopel who believe that individuals exist to serve the collective and between people who believe that individuals exist to seek their own happiness and fulfillment however they choose so long as they do not affirmatively harm others.
by ClutchFanSince94 on Jul 21, 2010 10:48 PM CDT reply actions
also, for the record
Additionally, I personally believe that the greater good is served by allowing a great young player named Kevin Durant the ability to showcase his skills and great attitude on the world stage. KD is a perfect example of the type of person we want representing our country and because he wants to be there, he will be a great ambassador of the US.
AND, I believe that the league is best served by having a super-team that will generate far more interest than Miami, Toronto and Cleveland did last year separately.
by ClutchFanSince94 on Jul 21, 2010 10:52 PM CDT up reply actions
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