Did Anyone Fault Magic for Playing with Kareem and Worthy?
by ClutchFanSince94 on Jul 29, 2010 9:34 PM CDT
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Or Bird for playing with McHale and Parish?
Or Hakeem for playing with Clyde, Kobe for playing with Shaq, Wilt Chamberlain for playing with Jerry West and Elgin Baylor, Bill Russell for playing with 25 other All-Stars, or Jordan for playing with Pippen and Grant, or Dr. J for playing with Moses?
NO.
The reason is because these teams were put together by a general manager who knew what he was doing in creating a vision and putting together a team. That begs the questions though, why is it great for basketball when a general manager puts together a great team but it is terrible for basketball for players to put together a great team? Isn’t the end result the same?
How great would it be for the game if Magic Johnson played for the Los Angeles CLIPPERS and never won more than 36 games a season? How about if Jordan toiled in obscurity with players one year removed from the CBA? Actually, before Pippen and Grant that’s pretty much what he did and the NBA suffered for it. How about if Kevin Garnett had never been traded to Boston after wasting away his youth in Minnesota where his best teammates were the over the hill versions of Sam Cassell and Latrell Sprewell, oh and Wally World?
I guess you get where I’m going with this. Basketball is best served when the greatest players come together to form the greatest teams and competition is pushed to a higher level. Hence, we should celebrate what Miami did this offseason and hope it spurs greater competition in the league. But, I guess that won’t happen because the players and not a GM made the team happen. Too bad.
No cursing in title. No pirated material, such as links to online game streams. Do not cut/paste entire sections of content from other websites. Thanks.
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That begs the questions though, why is it great for basketball when a general manager puts together a great team but it is terrible for basketball for players to put together a great team? Isn’t the end result the same?
The public’s predilections are not governed by reason. Rather, they are governed by media representation and psychological association.
Beth Shoals and Tom Ziller did a pretty good job of documenting some of the bigger trade requests of the past forty years, which was a fairly good rebuttal to all of the ridiculous talk about Chris Paul’s trade-request-that-wasn’t.
As for the Miami trio, I think it’s more complex, but suffice it to say that fans have a very convoluted relationship with players. For some strange reason, fans are much likelier to sympathize with the billionaire owners (like Dan Gilbert) than with millionaire players (like Lebron).
Basketball is best served when the greatest players come together to form the greatest teams and competition is pushed to a higher level
I rarely go in for “contraction” talks when it comes to the NBA (or MLB, NFL, or NHL), but there’s a good case to be made for reducing the number of franchises by four or six.
Herein lies the caveat in contraction
How do you determine what teams get cut? Perpetual lottery teams? Market size/gross earnings? The guidelines under which a team gets removed would have to almost certainly be subjective. This is due mostly to the ebb and flow of quality in teams. I mean, even the Celtics were irrelevant for a while.
The main reason I say it would have to be subjective is the case of the Zombie Sonics/Thunder. They were a team that had fallen into the doldrums of the NBA but through intelligent drafting and quality management, they are among the rising stars/hot teams in the league for the next few years. The argument gets difficult when you consider Oklahoma City’s market size in comparison to other NBA markets. This is due to the affluence of the people living there which would almost preclude all the teams in the middle of the US from being in consideration. Coastal teams tend to have larger markets for the sheer fact that affluence tends to settle on coasts, no fault of the team in that location.
To me, the caliber of teams comes and goes. The Knicks used to be relevant, but then most of us posting on this board hit puberty and the Knicks were no longer relevant. Their market is huge, their success is low, and their management has seemed inept. Under the reasons I can think of to remove a team New York fits the bill in 2/3 categories (Doubtless there are other criteria that would lead to a city losing a team, but still). They’re doing poorly for years, they were managed terribly and not good for competitive balance in the NBA (A team you practically slated a W for), and their redeeming quality is market. Minnesota, Indiana, Memphis, etc… are teams that seem to whiff on all 3 of the categories I could think of but beyond that it’s a crap shoot in 2/3 categories.
I'm always right, this isn't conjecture, merely statement of fact.
Why cut any of them?
If they cannot field a winning team, they will lose. Several teams have had losing records for years and the NBA is still fun to watch. And any of them can change. OKC did make some smart moves but the real jump came with Kevin Durant, and that was not the result of being smart. Cleveland was a competitor for the last few years for the same reason (making an obvious selection with a high pick). Dynasties make it more interesting, not less. LA-Boston made the 80’s. Chicago made the 90’s although it was too bad that there wasn’t a suitable competitor for them. The draft made the Lakers and Celtics in the 80’s (Magic and Bird selections) and the draft made the Bulls (Jordan and Pippen). Any team can do the same. The draft made the champion Rockets too, when they got Sampson and Olajowon one after the other. I think it is working pretty well right now.
Your butthurt is rather delicious
but the essential issue here is that GMs angled for those teams to be put together and the individual players had competitive fire to not want to bolt when they had the chance to make their jobs and lives easier. Rather than see how good they were, the Miami Threetards decided to run off, join each other and avoid ever having to test their true mettle and the likes.
I completely understand players asking for trades, if there’s a need that needs to be met (competitively for a team to be taken seriously) and is not being met then a player is within his right, in my opinion, to ask his franchise to cash in on what he is worth. The fact of the matter is the player, through requesting a trade, has conceded to his club “I am unhappy with how this organization is, it is not realistically built to compete, so please, for my sanity, quality of play, and career, get something for me.” Miami’s situation were two players who looked at a club that for 7 years coddled them said “Fuck you.” And forced them to take whatever pittance was offered for them. Let’s face it, personal integrity counts for something (lawl Tracy McGrady discussion) and the Threetards proved they don’t have it.
If Garnett would have toiled in Minnesota for naught, if Jordan had never came to fruition, if none of the legends of the game would have won titles, we would still stand in awe of the fact that these men served loyally to one team in all of their greatness. Also, your scenario is off because let’s face it, teams with these legends of the game wouldn’t have topped out at 36 wins max. I like Bill Simmons’s qualification “Superstar gets you 45 wins a season.” Well, what does a legend get you then? Certainly more than 45 wins a game. These men emerged as titans because of the fight in them, not because of their titles. Lebron, Dwyane, and Chris all proved that that fight is not there because the low road is a better beaten path and easier to get where they want.
I'm always right, this isn't conjecture, merely statement of fact.
Well, let’s say Magic never made it past the second round with the exception of one time getting to the conference finals. That would be a horrible waste of talent. We might remember Magic like we remember Dominique or Pistol Pete Maravich. Cleveland’s management was really atrocious and why should we see someone waste his whole career because of some notion of loyalty. It makes no sense. Also, Kobe demanded the trade to LA from Charlotte and winning has put a nice mask over that stench.
by ClutchFanSince94 on Jul 29, 2010 10:22 PM CDT up reply actions
Bit of a point by point (Yes, I am hurting of the rear)
Magic – The man was legendary and we’ve seen what elite point guards can do to a team (Hello Steve Nash). So this is debatable but really it’s debatable on the grounds of how much the point guard can influence the rest of his team. True, we may remember him differently but we don’t know. This is a hypothetical historical alteration question, it’s got a defeated purpose to bring it up anyhow.
Cleveland’s Management – It WAS Lebron. You want to call it inept and atrocious point your finger at the asswipe that took out an hour long special to shit all over an entire city. They consulted him on most personnel moves, kept tape sessions short because he didn’t want to be there, and at his behest did most anything he wanted. Let’s not forget how high the praise was for most of the moves that brought Lebron in support. Even when they got Shaq there was an unusually high amount of people who were in support of it when it was blatantly obvious The Blob was going to just clog the driving lanes Lebron needed.
Let’s not alleviate James of the blame here, he declared himself a King and Savior of that franchise and what did he deliver? A Finals Sweep, lackluster heart in playoff performances, and “The Decision”. If your car breaks down and I tell you I’ll fix it like new then when you come back after the work all that happened was I slashed your tires and washed it, how are you going to feel? Now pay me millions of dollars for the job. THAT is what LeDouche did to Cleveland.
Kobe – Yea, he did demand to be traded from Charlotte, when he was drafted. Same with Francis from Vancouver to Houston. Here’s the problem though, in my post, TRADES ARE FINE. A player can straight up say no so long as the club gets something useful for them. If a player is willing to be used as a trade chip and can net something, that is perfect. If not however, if they just walk and force their team to take a consolations prize, it is a slap in the face. It’s banging YOUR wife in front of YOU then forcing you to make him dinner before he leaves. That’s ridiculous. Kobe did wind up winning, and by all measures the man as he grew was an asshole, but at least Charlotte got something in the trade and it was before he ever made an impact or people knew what he was going to be. These guys had settled into a franchise for 7 years to do what they did.
I'm always right, this isn't conjecture, merely statement of fact.
Cleveland's managment
was deeply involved with Lebron’s own people, just like how Miami has promise to integrate some of Lebron’s personal into their front office
Your butthurt is rather delicious
Yeah, that was entirely uncalled for.
But ironically hilarious, given your comments.
Certainly
I’ll admit that I’m butthurt over what they did because I think it just looks at competition and says screw it. Given I’m a fan of good games I don’t want to see three buddies tow each other along by the Johnson while the rest of the league has to watch them romp through. I still feel confident that the wheels don’t stay on this train but I’m also aware that the opposite could be true. In my opinion there aren’t many teams with the tools needed to stop the three of them and that is something I’m not a fan of.
I'm always right, this isn't conjecture, merely statement of fact.
"aren't many teams with the tools needed to stop the three of them"
this is really the key to this coming season.
LA wanted Diaw for his D and settled for Barnes…also a good harassing defensive player. They arleady have Kobe and Crazy Pills so this is exactly what they and every team has to focus on this year.
We are not that much worse off in that we have Shane and Ariza to pair up to Lebron and Wade. That being said, unless Yao and Miller are healthy and on the court we will not have the second layer of defense that the lakers have with their 7 footers.
Ultimately I think by adding Barnes it made LA a better D team than the Rox but we are not bad. I think we really have to drill in some D into Brooks, Martin and Bud early this season if we honestly want to have any chance of being good.
For all of the trade generation BS going on and Ariza being one of the main players being traded, this is really not a good idea unless either the player trading him for is of equal D capability or the player trading him for is lights out on offense to make up for it. But even still good O is not the same as good lock down D.
O sells ticks and D definitely wins champtionships: see examples LA and Boston and counter example Phoenix.
With ya every step of the way there
My “4 teams to potentially stop the Heat” if the Heat click are:
Houston, LA, Boston, Orlando.
If health is no issue, I wager Orlando is the weakest since they just lost Barnes and he was their go to guy. The bright side is the Magic can stash Lewis on Bosh and neutralize him (Not that Lewis is a great defender, just that he’s long and Bosh will easily be bothered by that) to leave Howard into the middle to close off driving lanes. The problem is, LeDouche can heat up his outside shot from time to time (not great in my opinion) and Mike Miller can shoot lights out. Orlando lacks a great perimeter defender but hopefully that team defense that funnels players in to Howard will work out for them.
Boston has to beat age but we counted them out last year and look what they did.
Houston, health has to prevail but we have lockdown perimeter defenders and deterrents inside, especially if Hill can get his timing down at that center slot. The caveat here besides health is if all the clamor for a trades goes through our best bargaining chips also happen to be our defensive stoppers. At what cost do the Rockets want to compete? Compete with a team with the needed defense to win a title or cash in most of our defense to get a big name star and lose in the 2nd round or conference finals? It’s a sticky spot. For elaboration, our stoppers/bargaining chips are:
Battier (expiring deal, one of our higher contracts)
Jeffries (Expiring deal, one of our higher contracts)
Ariza (Defensive player, adequate offensive player, young, still upside, teams want him)
Hill (Defensive predisposition, elite offensive tools, he just needs to put them together, teams possibly intrigued by the fact that it’s only his second year and he has these things)
End of the day I truly advocate stay still, develop your team, and watch the success come storming in.
I'm always right, this isn't conjecture, merely statement of fact.
I think this post is just wrong
Its not that I hate Wade at all. Hell he toiled away for a number of years with no supporting cast, battled through injuries and still carried his team to the playoffs on his own back. He deserves help and to have a better team than having Marion, J. Oneal, etc as his playmates.
Bosh, just seems to me like a poor man’s Pau. I really don’t like the lakers. But I do like Pau. Maybe he is just not as much of a dumb ass as most bball players, or maybe just because he has mad skills, but I just like the guy. Bosh doesn’t seem to have that fire that Kobe, Wade etc have…that desire to just win at all costs…to throw themselves completely into the game. He never carried Toronto into the playoffs enough to be called anything but a damn good PF. Gasol wasn’t much better in Memphis but still more likeable.
Lebron… Screw him. Anyone who would rather pleasure his own ego at the expense of a down and out city who really did offer him nothing but appreciation and pride is just bad on every level. I know these guys have millions thrown at them, told they are gods etc…but where do you get off humiliating a city just so you can put on a goofy smile for a one hour special on ESPN. It would still have been a ton of news he just issued a statement praising Cleveland for all they had done for them, list out everything the town means to him etc…then quitely leave for Miami. People would still be pissed but to do it with such arrogance on national TV, what a fuck stick. Screw him.
I don’t care who puts good teams together GMs or players. Garnett deserved to win after years at the wolves and I have nothign against Lebron winning either, just have some fucking class and basic common sense.
Like I said I really don’t like LA, but if it comes to an LA vs. Miami game, I will be wearing Pau’s jersey and cheering Kobe on.
by John P on Jul 30, 2010 12:37 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
I'll explain
Butthurt is when someone is entirely upset or on a soap box about an issue regardless of how small it is or how dated it is. Butthurt can be induced by slight trolling, referencing a past defeat, or just plain being easy to harass. On this issue we see two cases of butthurt:
Clutch’s – It’s a late thing to bring up the Miami Threetards and the rant is extremely strong attempting to compare the career of legends who wanted to beat each other to three buddies who don’t want to have to work for success the way those legends did. GMs helped and listened to their players, these guys ran it into the ground.
BD34’s (Yes, I referred to myself in the third person) – The NBA got trolled by these three jackasses and I sure as shit am mad over it. Very much so. As a result, the discussion induces a great deal of anger in me, hence butthurt.
By all means it is important to offer the disclaimer that butthurt in no way implies homophobic connotations, it is merely a statement of “I am upset, deeply, my good sir!” If you would like, I could wear a monocle whilst saying it.
I'm always right, this isn't conjecture, merely statement of fact.
eh. It’s the offseason. I’m bored. I thought your comments were pretty funny by the way.
by ClutchFanSince94 on Jul 30, 2010 3:50 PM CDT up reply actions
I would like to be known from this point forward
As Professor of Butthurtology. I feel as though I made an academic piece out of a weird statement. Also, I appreciate your stuff too man, sorry if I come off as dickish, it’s more just abrasive humor.
I'm always right, this isn't conjecture, merely statement of fact.
Everything you said about Lebron
was spot on. From the start both Wade and Bosh never hid what their intentions were. Wade wanted help and Bosh wanted out of Toronto, pretty simple, But no… not Lebron. Instead, he wanted to prove just how much everyone would hang on his every word and disgrace the franchise that idolized him all at once.
I appreciate you calling my spot-on-ness
its funny how wade really comes out smelling like roses and having his great team around him. They better dominate this year or people are going to make fun of lebron to no ends
fuck’em
I don't think Wade comes out clean
I look at Wade as guilty by association and the fact that he was complicit every step of the way in orchestrating Chris’s pussy-ness and LeBron’s treachery.
I'm always right, this isn't conjecture, merely statement of fact.
The problem was those three idiots (well, two actually) couldn't hide their glee at duping everyone because they had this planned out for years or months (depends on who you listen to).
The problem is Lebron and Bosh didn’t play their hearts out for their teams towards the end of the season, so now their integrity and professionalism is being called out. The Cav and Raptors fans feel duped. Just like the way we felt TMac sold us short.
You say players have the freedom to choose their teams. Well, you must accord fans the same freedom to react to these players by either cheering or castigating them. It’s only fair.
“you must accord fans the same freedom to react to these players by either cheering or castigating them. It’s only fair.”
Fair enough. I’m just too excited to watch them play to worry about how they put the team together. But, others are free to cast them as villains. That makes it more exciting for fans.
by ClutchFanSince94 on Jul 31, 2010 2:06 PM CDT up reply actions
Magic
First, if Magic Johnson had been on the Clippers, the Clippers would have won more than 36 games in a season. Otherwise, I agree with your post. If you remember Magic Johnson’s last full season, he led a fairly weak Lakers team to the Finals. That team was not full of dominant players. It was more or less like a Clippers team or perhaps the Cleveland team that Lebron led to the finals and the result was about the same as Lebron’s team too. Magic was great but the Lakers Championship teams were great too. It takes more than one guy, even if that guy is Magic or Kareem or Lebron. I admire what the big 3 of Miami have done (taking a bit less pay to build a team that can win). The only thing I saw wrong was how they did it. They all knew from the beginning. Lebron was the worst with The Decision but Bosh and Wade knew too. They should have just said so early in the game instead of playing the coy little girl, leading a pack of guys on when she knows she ain’t going with but one of them and she knows which one she wants. The Decision made Lebron look like an arrogant fool who puts himself above Wade and Bosh (sort of a stupid thing to do) but also wasted the time and money of a lot of other teams. I hope Miami loses a lot of games but I think they will win almost all of them. This will do wonders for the fan bases of Boston and Los Angeles because everybody is going to want to see them beat Miami.
The reason we fault these guys is because
they are all top ten players in the NBA. Worthy and Kareem were certainly good but no longer top 10 players. These guys are taking the fun out of watching basketball because if they are playing with their competition then they no longer have competiton. On top of that i am 90% sure they had this thing planned for some time which is why they had their contracts expire at the same time. What fun is the NBA if there are two or three great teams and just the rest.
GO ROCKETS, GO TEXANS, GO ASTROS (EVEN THOUGH THEY SUCK)!!!
Kareem was not top 10??
What??? Kareem was perhaps the greatest player ever. Kareem never did anything but win at every level, on every team. Kareem at this point stands above any of the three at Miami. One day maybe Lebron will reach his level but he is not there now. And James Worthy was simply great — not all-time great, like Kareem, but still great (like Bosh, for example). Magic-Kareem-Worth is a more formidable trio that Bosh-Wade-James. And so is Bird-McHale-Parish. Actually, if you look at the 4 teams mentioned most above (Chicago, Lakers, Celtics, Miami) then Miami might have the 4th best trio. I watched them all play many games (except the Miami trio, of course) and I would rank them 1st = Magic-Kareem-Worthy, 2nd = Bird-McHale-Parish, 3rd = Jordan-Pippen-Rodman and 4th = the Miami trio. How do the rest of you feel about this? Do most of you really think the Miami trio is the best ever?
Maybe I'm wrong about Kareem
Got my years mixed up becasue the last title they got was when he was no longer a top 10 guy. Worthy on the other hand was not top 10. What I’m saying is if you have 3 top 10 players on the same team its takes away real competition. Miami does have 3 top 10 players (still in their prime as well) and I will guarantee they do not succeed as much as most expect. The trios you named above were not all top 10 players in the league.
GO ROCKETS, GO TEXANS, GO ASTROS (EVEN THOUGH THEY SUCK)!!!
I think they won a ring or more when Kareem was in decline, but for the first ring Kareem was the man in LA.
by ClutchFanSince94 on Jul 31, 2010 2:08 PM CDT up reply actions
Kareem was MVP
The first title that Magic won, Kareem was league MVP. Also, I think it was in 87 that Kareem was MVP of the Finals. Kareem really only slowed down the last two years.
Worthy was top 50
Worthy was on the all-time best 50 players list. Worth, Magic and Kareem were all on that list. So were Bird, McHale and Parish. Those trios were GREAT TRIOS, as good as the current three in Miami. Also, Jordan and Pippen were both on the 50 Greatest. Rodman didn’t make it but if it were the 50 Greatest Defensive then he would be up near the top of the list. Miami is not really better than those other trios but MIAMI will DOMINATE. LA, Boston and Chicago dominated too. The only reason LA and Boston didn’t win more championships was LA and Boston came at the same time. Chicago won more because there really wasn’t a second best. Miami is going to win at least 3 out of the next 6 unless some other team does something.
lets hope not...
I would absolutely love to seem the three not get along/play well together. That being said you are probably right that it makes it about a 5 year period that Miami is the power in the east with Orlando second and either Chicago or Atlanta picking up 3rd
I wouldn't say we think the trio is the best ever
just for its time right now, it can be considered overpowered in relation to a lot of the other competition in the league. I mean, let’s face it, the two best teams (if healthy) to beat the Heat are in the West and they will only see each other twice per year.
I also think you overrate Bosh. He was the best player on a bad team and consistently lead them to the lottery more than anything else. But we’ve already had this debate before on TDS and I don’t feel like opening it up again.
I'm always right, this isn't conjecture, merely statement of fact.
you can really only compare teams in the same era
the league changes over time. When the Dream was at his prime big men ruled everything, now it is more SF and SG’s. I just think that you can’t compare Magic’s Lakers with today’s heat team. I remember watching the celtics lakers matchups as a kid and they were great but I think the game was more fundamentals and less fast break flashy dunks etc…
the game is the same. its still the same distance baseboard to baseboard. it’s still two points and three points and one point for the free throws…
by ClutchFanSince94 on Aug 1, 2010 11:49 PM CDT up reply actions
i have to disagree with you
the players are faster and younger on average these days and, from the other reply, the rules have somewhat changed.
Also, most importantly, you cant really say how the Dream would play vs. Dwight Howard etc… (of course he would smoke him but…)
I just think it is pointless to compare Dr. J to Kobe….different players in different eras…
to both… the great players will be the great players in any era regardless of the rules. One of the things that defines greatness is external factors become irrevelant. if the rule changes affect you then you weren’t great
by ClutchFanSince94 on Aug 4, 2010 9:47 PM CDT up reply actions
no sorry but no...
can wilt be better than the Dream or Howard today? no way to know…you can make wishful comments about greaet ones always being great etc… but eras change and what works in one doesn’t necessarily work in others…nice try though…
Dream was the greatest of his time, hands down. I think we can all live with that and move on and let others be great in theirs.
Kareem, Worthy and Magic was a better trio with a better supporting cast. That’s fact.
by ClutchFanSince94 on Jul 30, 2010 3:51 PM CDT up reply actions
I agree
The Magic’s Lakers would be the favorite to win the title this season. And so would the Bird Celtics or Jordan Bulls. Those three teams would be favorities over today’s LA, Boston, Orlando and Miami. Going into this season, it is reasonable to believe that Boston might be better than Miami (especially when Perkins is back 100%). But there is no way that today’s Celtics are as good as the Bird Celtics. Same for today’s Lakers. They are probably better at this point that Miami but I don’t think they are as good as Magic’s Lakers. So, to me, Miami still has not reached that level where Jordan, Bird and Magic took their teams. Miami might do it over the next few years but it is unlikely they will be that good this year. If they are, however, then you can forget it because they will win handily. I think that is the true test of whether this Miami trio is really as good as they think they are. If they are in that elite class, they will win.
again...i think this is silly
you have no reason to know…LBJ and Wade are two of the best players playing today and only Magic as the best in the league on the lakers teams…
who knows who would have won but it is silly to even try to compare them
I hate this miami team as much as everyone else but we haven’t seen them play yet and can only rightfullly compare them to their peers they play
yeah, but come on, its Magic, Worthy and Kareem. They would dominate
by ClutchFanSince94 on Aug 4, 2010 9:49 PM CDT up reply actions
I think you're missing the point here
I think most people out there can agree that there really is nothing wrong with stars aligning in Miami and taking less money to do so, it could even be admirable in certain circumstances.
The trio is despise for how they did it, they conspired early on to get on the same team, then went on to put up a whole charade(worse in Lebron’s case who held his team hostage)
in some way, they can be viewed as quitting too early. Basketball may be a team sport but NBA is a star sport, in many ways it was constructed in so that the elite talents can compete with each other. These guys are all at their prime, and should be competing with each other to better their game and glory, not band together to blowout everyone
Let's not praise them on taking less money
even if that wasn’t the reason for your post (Cause you’re better than that and your post clearly says it would be applaudable but not under these circumstances) they barely took any less money. The people taking the pay cuts are the guys like Haslem, not the Threetards.
I'm always right, this isn't conjecture, merely statement of fact.
I'm not praising them
Not even close, if they were really into this pay cut thing, they would’ve given up enough to get Haslem his MLE level money, and have Chris bosh the only player on the roster paid like a star. they did however take enough for Miami to sign more than scrubs(that and everyone signing with discounts)
I didn't say you did
I actually actively explained the opposite.
I'm always right, this isn't conjecture, merely statement of fact.
don’t get me wrong. I think Lebron’s style of handling his move was pretty shitty. I’m just over that now and looking forward to seeing some incredibly basketball and not just a boring Laker’s threepeat (assuming they get by us).
by ClutchFanSince94 on Jul 30, 2010 3:53 PM CDT up reply actions
and....
another point is that they act like the pay cuts were huge. What could they buy now that they couldn’t buy before anyway?
GO ROCKETS, GO TEXANS, GO ASTROS (EVEN THOUGH THEY SUCK)!!!
by ClutchFanSince94 on Jul 30, 2010 3:54 PM CDT up reply actions
Every time
someone refers to themselves as ‘my talents’, a small puppy dies somewhere.
"He’s been following him around for two weeks like his lapdog". - Stan Van Gundy about Chris Bosh and Dwyane Wade
Just finished dropping my talents off in the Septic System
I prefer to use it in that sense.
I'm always right, this isn't conjecture, merely statement of fact.
dawg i fux wit dis article
i mean i go to twenty fo hour fitness wit my boy j stru and willie dub….we always run da court dont matter who da fo’th is cuz we always wreck and win at least 5 outta da 6 games we usualy play…jus sayin…not braggin…. and ppl be gettin mad cuz we play together sayin dis ish aint fair and wat not but i mean we jus homies playin togetha on da same team so dat ish aint really dat bad so i fux wit lebron and d wizzy playing wit bosh down in miami flo’da……….
we play ta 12 an we play fo on fo and 1 time i hit da game winna off one leg and it was nasty like sick nasty and my boy j stru told me i looked like jordan and so did ereone else in da gym….one dude told me i should play overseas but i told dat dude i already play college ball so scratch dat like a catch son….so da point of dis story is dat we usually kill at da gym and i mean lebron and d wizzy can join bosh in miami if dey wanna so dont hate da players hate da game…
/////business ova erething\\\\\
Ima d*ck so i shouldnt be dat hard to swallow
sorry,...but I can hate the player: Lebron for DB of the year award
the sad thing is that before “the Decision” I had not a single thing to say bad about Lebron. His fake pictures before games etc…was pretty stupid but the guy seemed nice enough etc…
then he goes and tells his team, his home town to basically fuck off on national TV all to please his ego….I can hate the player and the game…but I love the game and Lebron can lick my…
Yeah I agree, a lot of people are just hating on LeBron. But I think people are more mad of how it went down. LeBron had to do a 1 hour special on where he was going to go. I mean, it takes 10 seconds to just say, “This Fall, I’m taking my talents to South Beach.” Haha, but what’s even worst was why LeBron joined Dwyane Wade’s team. If Wade/Bosh went to the Cavs, it would be a different situation. LeBron is the best basketball player in the NBA right now, no doubt. A lot of people were just disappointed that he had to go to Wade’s Heat (probably going to be LeBron’s Heat soon, but you get the point). As long as the Lakers are taken out, I don’t mind who wins the NBA Finals.
Nah, no matter how well Lebron did
I’ll still be Wade’s heat, It’s how legacy works. after all, in the eye of sportsfan and media alike, they came to him, not the other way around
by NVP on Aug 2, 2010 8:26 AM CDT up reply actions
Lebron just needs to win a couple of titles, but he needs
to keep his stats up to be considered one of the greatest. All this thing about his legacy being tarnished will be forgotten if he wins and does well in the playoffs(hit key shots, plays good d, etc.). He still needs to keep up with the stats though.
by inquisitiveman on Aug 2, 2010 9:12 PM CDT up reply actions
I don’t think LeBron would go to a team that he couldn’t be the main guy. Obviously Wade is a superstar, but I think LeBron’s ego is just too big to let Wade be ‘the’ guy. The media are already saying “LeBron’s Heat” in some of the articles I’ve read.
What Lebron wants and what history will remember
are two different things. Every basketball fan knows that regardless of what ESPN’s cavalcade of Lebron dickriders enthusiasts say Lebron joined Wade, not the other way around. As a result, Lebron admitted he couldn’t do it on his own, Wade is the alpha dog on that team by virtue of the fact that he didn’t swap teams, already has the ring, and helped orchestrate the entire ordeal.
I'm always right, this isn't conjecture, merely statement of fact.
Well, could anybody do it on their own? I know this hurts his career a lot, but I don’t think a Kobe or a Wade could take LeBron’s supporting cast to the Finals either. His career took a huge hit when he went to the Heat, but if he wins championships, finds a way to be the main guy on the team, win Finals MVPs, then I think he’ll be fine.
You're being too generous on him
because he anointed himself the solution to Cleveland’s problems then failed to deliver. People conveniently ignore that Lebron was the one who pushed his image and then failed to make good on it. They give him a free pass and blame his team mates or try to find ways in which he will rectify things but most people ignore the fact that he’s an absolute twat.
I'm always right, this isn't conjecture, merely statement of fact.
Akeem played with a 'past his prime' Drexler , Barkley, and Pippen
What a shame. One of the great things Akeem did was win a title with no other star during the 93-94’ season. The last time a team won with one or no superstar was in 04’ with the Pistons.
Quick Points
I’ve mentioned this before, but Lebron’s refusal in signing an extension hurt the Cav’s ability to be able to sign talent. If he signed an extension, the Cavs wouldn’t have to plan around the summer of 2010 (by getting expirings, and sign people for 1-3 years). If Lebron had given the Cavs a cheap extension but then asking them to get him help, the Cavs would have been all over it, and might’ve even scored Amare this summer.
Secondly, don’t compare teams of different eras, but compare teams within the same eras. The teams back then had more superstars and legends on their teams, because the league back then was extremely top-heavy. So those teams had to BEAT teams that were extremely top heavy to win the championship. The 2006 Miami Heat would’ve never won a championship against ANY of the teams from the conference championships in the 1980’s. Jordan, when losing against the Pistons in 1989, had Pippen and Grant in all-star form, and STILL lost. That’d be unthinkable in this day and age. The Miami Heat team is a ridiculous team for this era, considering that most teams are even lucky to have one superstar, let alone 2 of the best players in the game, and a top-flight power forward.
Excellent post
You are 100% right. Miami is shaping up to be a team on a level of the 80’s Lakers and Celtics. Better hope that Boston or LA can knock ’em off this season because Miami is only getting better while those other two are only the downhill slide. It could be 6 in a row for Miami.
Yea man!
Miami is gonna be the kings of the NBA cause the other 29 teams are just fucking terrible! Especially Houston! God I hate your take on basketball.
I'm always right, this isn't conjecture, merely statement of fact.
No
Miami is going to be great because they are putting together a great team. The only thing that can stop a team like that from being GREAT is injuries. Houston looks like a very good team. There were good teams in the 80’s besides the Lakers and Boston. There were good teams in the 90’s other than Chicago (Houston was one of them, BTW). But those teams (LA, Boston and Chicago) were great and not just good. I think Miami will be at that level. I don’t know if that is “my take” on basketball or just reality. I mean … how can that team not be GREAT? They will be very, very hard to beat.
Can someone please tell me how this Miami shit is going to work
Exactly how do these guys and the role players compliment each other. How in the hell do Wade and James compliment each other? They are the same player just different sizes. Bosh is not really a LOW POST guy he likes to take jumpers and he shys away from contact. The other bigs they have are old as hell and soft as diahrea shit. The only role player to me that is a factor is Mike Miller and he wont see much action since he plays the same spots as Wade and James. Chalmers is just a below average player all around so PG’s will just own him. He could be the next Fisher except he doesn’t hit big shots. Unless the NBA decides to cheat for them as they do the Lakers they will not be as successful as most exoect.
GO ROCKETS, GO TEXANS, GO ASTROS (EVEN THOUGH THEY SUCK)!!!
I hope you are right
But I cannot think of a single time when three great players were on the same team at the same time and the team was not a very good team. I don’t see the role players being all that much worse on Miami than, for example, they were on Cleveland when Lebron took the Cavs to the Finals. Role players won’t be as important when you have 3 superstars that can each play + 40 min if needed. Bosh is the only one of the 3 that doesn’t routinely play almost the entire game and he is backed up by Haslem, who is a starter-quality player. Chalmers and House may not be elite but they look about as good as what Chicago used to win several championships. When you have Wade and Lebron, you might not need such a great PG. Besides, House can shoot. So can Miller, as you said … but unless Miami is winning big, those guys won’t see many minutes. What you will see, when the game is on the line, is LEBRON-WADE-BOSH. That is going to be hard to beat. Anthony and Ilguaguskas are nothing great but they are adequate … they are not terrible, are they? Whether it all meshes together, only time will tell, but it won’t be because Wade and Lebron cannot play together. Those guys will be fine together.
How to beat Miami
Pound it down their throats because they are soft in the middle. Bosh won’t bang, Z is old and soft, Haslem is undersized, Anthony is an offensive liability, and Maglore is just there. We have the players it takes to destroy that punk ass team.
GO ROCKETS, GO TEXANS, GO ASTROS (EVEN THOUGH THEY SUCK)!!!
not to mention our defensive players are strong on the wings (battier and Ariza) to guard Lebron and Wade
I think they are probably better but we can compete…with our hustle and heart anything is possible…
Not to mention
How great of a pure coaching staff we have. Maybe the best PURE coaching in the league.
GO ROCKETS, GO TEXANS, GO ASTROS (EVEN THOUGH THEY SUCK)!!!
They can all naturally play different roles.
Lebron will defer to dwade on the offensive end. I see him scoring alot less points but picking up alot more assists and rebounds. Triple double machine every night. He will also most likely pick up some of the tougher defensive assignments to allow wade to focus on the offensive end.
Dwade is going to stay in his go to scorer role. Rack up points and be the go to scorer. He might be even more effective than years past because he is going to have lebron there next to him on the nights his shots arnt falling to pick it up.
Bosh is going be the opportunist. I see Bosh getting alot of easy set ups by Lebron and Dwade. Will have several games where he just dominates. Hes going to look amazing but it wont nessessarily be because he is any better just there is alot less attention on him. He is a terrific player no doubt and it will be up to him to anchor the post. He may not be a big time banger in the post but he is a very capable defender still.
The way to beat these guys is going to be to hammer it down in the post. This year at least they dont have a decent center. If you can find a good pf/Center combo team like the lakers or the spurs they should be able to give the team fits. The other weakness of the team is depth. While they are sure to get a better bench a few years down the road, this year they are going to be forced to play their starters alot of minutes. I can see them having trouble on back to backs.
My problem with this:
Clyde was traded to us. Hakeem did not ask him to join us through Free Agency. Bron, Wade, and Bosh all planned this out in the 06 world championships. They re-structured their contracts so that they could do this in 2010. Those guys planned on playing with each other, where Magic, Bird, and Dream did not with their respective ‘stars.’
"You got to believe in yourself. Hell, I believe I'm the best-looking guy in the world and I might be right."- Charles Barkley
Wow I feel like an idiot.
Completely mis understood post, disregard what I said above. ^
"You got to believe in yourself. Hell, I believe I'm the best-looking guy in the world and I might be right."- Charles Barkley
by bone31crusher on Aug 4, 2010 6:43 PM CDT up reply actions
Saw Lowry tweeted this earlier
thought it was relevant to this thread
I'm always right, this isn't conjecture, merely statement of fact.
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