Let's Not Kid Ourselves: Bosh Would Have Pushed Rockets To New Heights
by Tom Martin on Jul 7, 2010 12:38 PM CDT
in Random Commentary
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PrintI'd much rather have Chris Bosh than not have him. Anyone who thinks that the Rockets would benefit by not trading for him is being ridiculous. Bosh may not be a true "superstar," but that's not the point. He's a superior talent who would have fit in with the Rockets perfectly. You can't tell me that, looking back, the Celtics would rather have Al Jefferson and Jeff Green than Ray Allen and Kevin Garnett. That may not be the best analogy, but it's darn near close.
The Rockets will no doubt be competitive, even without Bosh. Assuming they re-sign Luis Scola and Kyle Lowry, they should be just fine. If Jordan Hill can learn how to play the 5, which he will be practicing during the Summer League, the Rockets will receive a much-needed bonus to the roster. More versatility, less money spent? I like it.
But just fine isn't the same as championship caliber. And that's the level of competitiveness that Houston would have reached upon snagging a top-tier free agent. You can't ignore the truth to that statement just because Bosh decided to spurn the Rockets for national fame, South Beach and Dwyane Wade's bro-love.
As sneaky-good as I expect the Rockets to be this season -- I'm picturing at least a second round appearance -- they won't win a conference championship without a fair amount of luck. This is a team that will likely rely on outside shooting and free throw attempts to win games. Defense isn't as prevalent in the equation anymore, though Yao's return should help things quite a bit.
The Rockets also lack a true go-to scorer who can be fed the ball in isolation and produce points. Bosh is that type of player. Aaron Brooks and Kevin Martin, as talented as they are, do not fill that void. This Rockets team will rely on ball movement and off-ball movement to score, and while that should work effectively with the current roster, you can't help but wish that there was an easier option at times.
Regardless of what 'could have been,' the Rockets can now focus on retaining their own and preparing for next season. I'm excited as anyone about what this upcoming season will bring. But we can't act like adding Chris Bosh wouldn't have made a world of difference.
That said, it's nice to know that the overwhelming majority of these free agents will be heading East. Boozer will likely land in Chicago and Rocket-killer Amar'e Stoudemire already jumped ship to New York. As the Western Conference begins its journey to the middle, the Rockets' future still looks plenty bright.
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Thank you Tom
For being rational. For all of the anti-Bosh sentiment (especially its growth given that he didn’t pick us), no one is rational enough to just say ‘well, that sucks. time to move on.’
Wafer . . . again. (Marv Albert, HOU v. CLE Feb 2009)
-one of the FEW at Toyota Center who has the Wafer jersey
by olivarezq1 on Jul 7, 2010 12:45 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Good post
too bad it will probably be overridden with Bosh haters.
by goingforthecorner on Jul 7, 2010 12:50 PM CDT reply actions
While I agree that on the surface the Rockets are absolutely better off if they had gotten Bosh
I don’t thinks it’s exponential or anything. I think Bosh is a hell of a player, but so what. Scola is not that far off at all. So I’m not sad or happy about the fact that he’s not coming here.
I do not agree that Kevin Martin is not a go to scorer. But I’ll go into more of this tomorrow
www.TheDreamShake.com Co-Founder and Writer
Martin's a great scorer
But he’s not the “iso” type that the Rockets could have used. He finds ways to score off screens and driving to the hole. He’s a different type of scoring threat – that’s all I’m saying.
The Dream Shake ...on Twitter.
"I think girls are probably just better shooters." - Steve Novak
How is Bosh an "iso type" scorer?
I picture that as something a 1,2, or 3 does, not a 4. And we already have Yao as a post scorer. And Scola for that matter
www.TheDreamShake.com Co-Founder and Writer
What do you think Kevin Garnett did in his prime? Or Tim Duncan?
I’m not comparing Garnett or Duncan to Bosh – that would be ludicrous. But what difference does it make what position an “iso” type scorer plays? Fact is, if you get Chris Bosh the ball in the high or low post, he has the capability to beat his defender one-on-one more so than Scola does.
The Dream Shake ...on Twitter.
"I think girls are probably just better shooters." - Steve Novak
That may be true
but both of those guys were worth max level contracts and it was easy to see – more importantly, they produced wins.
I have yet to see Bosh produce wins.
"I am from one of the top 15 cities in the world. Buffalo, New York." - TrentEdwardsHoF2018
Again, I'm not comparing Bosh to them.
Though I will say that Bosh never had much help in Toronto, and that he would fit on this team much better than he did on the Raptors. He’s not a star player and isn’t a clear-cut #1 option. Which is great. He could fit in on the Rockets perfectly, then.
The Dream Shake ...on Twitter.
"I think girls are probably just better shooters." - Steve Novak
He’s not a star player and isn’t a clear-cut #1 option.
Yet he’s still worthy of the extreme price we would have given up for him?
The gleefulness that Bosh showed with this whole process was sickening to me.
by PurplePeopleEaters on Jul 7, 2010 1:24 PM CDT up reply actions
Price wasn't really the issue in this case.
The chance to go for a ring was. Alexander already said that he would pay whatever it took.
The Dream Shake ...on Twitter.
"I think girls are probably just better shooters." - Steve Novak
Not just financially..
But the talent we would have to give in return.
I just think he should have showed Toronto some respect.
by PurplePeopleEaters on Jul 7, 2010 1:33 PM CDT up reply actions
You wouldn't be glee-full?
I know I would be if someone wanted to pay me 100 million dollars
www.TheDreamShake.com Co-Founder and Writer
I'd rather not force him to be at this point, no.
He’s still going to be a very effective post player. But I’m not sure he can do it like he used to.
The Dream Shake ...on Twitter.
"I think girls are probably just better shooters." - Steve Novak
That's fair, I guess
But I’m not one that believes Yao’s minutes need to be severely limited after this surgery. I think he’ll be fine, but I’m no doctor.
And scoring in Yao’s way isn’t a big issue for his body. Defense and running the floor are more than that.
And that said, I do think Kevin Martin is that type of scorer, absolutely.
www.TheDreamShake.com Co-Founder and Writer
Also
Not to beat a dead horse, but since when can we rely on Yao to be there at season’s end, healthy? Of all times, we’re going to do it as he is coming off surgery?
The Dream Shake ...on Twitter.
"I think girls are probably just better shooters." - Steve Novak
No, not at all
But Kevin Martin was only here for a few games last year. And I still think Al Jefferson does everything for you that Bosh did, as does David Lee.
www.TheDreamShake.com Co-Founder and Writer
No.
Jefferson and Lee – they can’t play defense. Not in the least bit. Lee’s more of a product of his surroundings, anyway. And Jefferson doesn’t fill any sort of need, like Quinn said. He wouldn’t blend in with the offense as well – he’s too much like Scola to replace him.
The Dream Shake ...on Twitter.
"I think girls are probably just better shooters." - Steve Novak
Since when is he not?
There’s a difference between being an above-average defender (Bosh) and a below average defender (Lee/Jefferson). There are numbers to prove this, too. I’d rather not get into them, but I can later.
The Dream Shake ...on Twitter.
"I think girls are probably just better shooters." - Steve Novak
I've never thought of Bosh as an above average defender
I guess I need to look at the numbers more. But my eyes tell me he’s not Dwight Howard, and is more of an average defender.
But I’m just throwing other PF names out there honestly. I really think our need is SF, and is why I didn’t care if we got Bosh or not
www.TheDreamShake.com Co-Founder and Writer
Dwight Howard is the best defender in the league, bar none.
Just because Bosh isn’t Dwight doesn’t mean he isn’t good.
The Dream Shake ...on Twitter.
"I think girls are probably just better shooters." - Steve Novak
Feigen Claims
the team isn’t interested in David Lee or Carlos Boozer at the price it would take to acquire them.
I don't really want either of them
And definitely not Boozer.
I’m more trying to prove a point. Maybe with faulty logic.
www.TheDreamShake.com Co-Founder and Writer
I gotcha
Personally, I still think Daryl’s “plan B” is to wait until the deadline to mindfuck someone.
agreed...or at least until one team that has been reconstituted starts to fall apart...
then we can swoop in and cut a good deal
Ummm...
Sorry but I have to disagree with a majority of this post. I mean, Olivar’s assertion that it’s rational is excluding the fact that the entire tone of the piece seems as though we’re assuming Yao isn’t back this year (Addition of Yao Ming and the assumption that our defense is a lost cause).
It’s been discussed on this blog about Bosh’s stats in comparison to Scola’s as far as True Shooting Percentage and effective Field Goal Percentage where Scola compares favorably or comparably to Bosh. Adding Chris would have made a difference in that our roster composition would be different and we’d have a shiny new power forward who could most likely be a difference maker in a few games but not much different than if we just stuck to our guns (In my opinion).
To me, perhaps the most aggregious aspect is the idea that we don’t have a go to scorer with out a Bosh style guy. When we dealt for Martin it was all over the internet that the Rockets now have their legit go to shooting guard and that will be a world of difference. He was lauded as a great option for his ability to fit into the Adelman system and create for himself. Now with Bosh mania having hit Houston we’re willing to just piss right on that acquisition? I find it to be a cop out that we have Martin’s capable scoring and game changing ability, Brooks (most improved) scoring ability and he was showing towards the end of last year he can be that icy veined player, AND we’re getting Yao Ming back.
The fact is, the Rockets have all which people thought Bosh would remedy with a game plan tied extremely close to getting other teams in the penalty between Yao, Scola, Martin, and Lowry. The front office has collected players who get contact, get to the line, and then punish opposing teams. I appreciate the write up but I can’t help but feel as though a cop out was made in saying “Move along, we could have been great.” While ignoring that we have a wonderful product behind us.
Have we forgotten about our little Laker killer in Aaron Brooks?
Did we forget who (literally) wrote the freakin’ book on guarding Kobe?
Did the Great Wall crumble forever?
Do we not have youth with scary potential and growth ahead of them?
Is Sleepy a bad coach?
Doesn’t Houston still play team ball when on any given night a player can erupt and be the go to guy? Yao is our pillar in the storm, the rest of our players ARE the storm.
Do we forget that after you sup up an engine you need to tune the parts and harmonize them to maximize its use? I say we let this garage tune it up and then we floor it. I think Houston is going to be a title contender next year, not because I overrate this team, but because I’m not going to turn a blind eye from what it truly is.
I'm always right, this isn't conjecture, merely statement of fact.
by BD34 on Jul 7, 2010 12:57 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
You should read the post again.
I’m not being unrealistic. I think this team can advance in the playoffs. But do you really think that they can win a championship right now, with the Lakers still doing their thing and with the East improving by the day?
Read the post again. You’re taking a single paragraph or two and using it to sum up my entire argument.
The Dream Shake ...on Twitter.
"I think girls are probably just better shooters." - Steve Novak
Also
I’m not assuming Yao won’t be back this year. What part of “though Yao’s return should help things quite a bit.” don’t you understand?
The Dream Shake ...on Twitter.
"I think girls are probably just better shooters." - Steve Novak
I read through it
when I stated tone I meant just that, tone. Not pertaining to any single paragraph but as an overall feeling conveyed throughout the piece. Given my reservations about your article are found within a few key paragraphs I’m not focusing on just one paragraph but my post is in reference to a few of the interpretations I disagree with. Is that not what is supposed to happen? Cite what I disagree with and provide something else?
I sincerely believe the Rockets can be competitive because a returning Yao Ming literally changes everything about the Rockets. Even without Yao we proved to be very competitive and be able to push the big boys around. You did mention Yao will be coming back but it seems to be discounted.
The East may be improving daily but just how?
Miami has to fill out 10 more players on a roster but they were already a playoff team.
Boston might still be able to stay relevant if health remains.
Milwaukee got better, but again, already a playoff team.
Orlando hasn’t changed.
Cleveland could possibly lose Lebron to Chicago in which case, Chicago is already a playoff team and Cleveland would most likely fall out.
The East is merely changing its pecking order and starting to come towards some form of depraved parity with the West. Meanwhile with guys like Amare and Boozer leaving the West it’s only improving Houston’s mobility up in their conference while prepping to take on a conference that with Yao, was never really a nutbuster (Boston in its prime really only stands out as teams that would consistently kick our asses the last few years).
I just fundamentally feel as though this article took some things for granted but discounts some other important things, as I brought up. No disrepsect meant, I agree with the assertion that the rockets will be good and make playoff progress, I just feel as though they’ll make more progress than you credit them.
I'm always right, this isn't conjecture, merely statement of fact.
Okay, I can agree with most of that.
But I’m still not sure how they will make more progress than getting to the WCF at BEST.
I think Yao will come back strong, btw, but he won’t be putting up 22/10 anymore. Not that he has to, though.
The Dream Shake ...on Twitter.
"I think girls are probably just better shooters." - Steve Novak
Who in the west is in the way?
This Rockets team should be better by nature of natural improvement for Brooks/Lowry/Ariza than the Rockets team that took the Lakers to 7 two years ago, right? And the lakers are getting older, right?
www.TheDreamShake.com Co-Founder and Writer
Lakers are in the way. That hasn't changed.
I think that series was more of the Lakers underestimating the Rockets more than anything. We got killed once they went home and started to really play.
I also think that Denver and Oklahoma City are up to that level at this point, too. IMO, we’re right after them, with Dallas.
The Dream Shake ...on Twitter.
"I think girls are probably just better shooters." - Steve Novak
Yes, we got killed without Yao
We controlled the first two games with him though.
And Denver will fall with the Carmelo saga pending. OKC is going to be awesome though
www.TheDreamShake.com Co-Founder and Writer
Huh?
And Denver will fall with the Carmelo saga pending
He’s going to re-sign there, no doubt.
The Dream Shake ...on Twitter.
"I think girls are probably just better shooters." - Steve Novak
I'm with Tom
on this one. Melo will probably re-sign. He’s a good guy/player and seems to genuinely enjoy Denver.
I'm always right, this isn't conjecture, merely statement of fact.
Yup
They’ve done nothing but commit to him and to making the team better. No reason for him to go elsewhere.
The Dream Shake ...on Twitter.
"I think girls are probably just better shooters." - Steve Novak
I would propose
that the Rockets can progress even further because we have addressed our biggest concerns. Let’s look at the purple and gold standard of the West right now.
Their key to success: Big men with length and skill.
Our acquisitions since the trade deadline: Big man with length and skill (Hill), Defensive specialist for big men (Jeffries), Go to scorer (Martin)
Draft Acquisition: Big man with skill and some defensive credibility (Patterson)
I liked a proposal made earlier, if possible get Przybilla see if you can’t sign Outlaw. Fundamentally we have wing defenders for Kobe, length to bother those Lakers bigs and Yao returning (Let’s face it, Bynum can out muscle our big fella but can we promise Bynum will be on the floor?).
I think when we consider our competition Houston is in very good shape. Oklahoma, I’m with you, they will run us ragged. Denver, I think we can compete with and beat. LA, I think we’re built to compete with them.
Also, I know this post will have ATROCIOUS formatting, I’m at work right now and lost track of thought there for a second.
I'm always right, this isn't conjecture, merely statement of fact.
This is all very true...
But it’s also a best-case scenario look. Bosh would have given the Rockets more of a guarantee, don’t you think? We’re assuming that Yao will come back strong and that nobody will get hurt. I’m a firm believer in Yao’s return, but since when have THESE Rockets been able to put it all together?
The Dream Shake ...on Twitter.
"I think girls are probably just better shooters." - Steve Novak
But you have to give up stuff to get him
That’s the problem. You get 10%-15% better at the PF position but horribly worse at the SF. And you might have had to throw in your backup 5 in Hill to get it done
www.TheDreamShake.com Co-Founder and Writer
SF is one of the most replaceable positions in the league.
We could have likely held onto Battier in the first place. Finding a backup SF would not be difficult at all.
The Dream Shake ...on Twitter.
"I think girls are probably just better shooters." - Steve Novak
Given his history
you can say more of a guarantee, but injuries can be freak, look at Kevin Martin. On the belief that we can’t make any claims because THESE Rockets haven’t been all together yet we can’t discount them or laud them. I look at Yao’s return as easily a 15/10 thing at least. He’s played through chronic foot injuries and improved every single year. Now that the problem has been properly addressed who is to say that it doesn’t get better/plateau?
I’m just happy we didn’t give up any of those pieces we got because I sincerely believe the pieces we’ve acquired in the last year are just what we need to stick it to the Lakers and show the league you don’t necessarily need a tandem or stable of superstars/stars to win.
I'm always right, this isn't conjecture, merely statement of fact.
I agree that Martin's injury was a freak injury.
But we’ve never been able to escape it, one way or another.
The Dream Shake ...on Twitter.
"I think girls are probably just better shooters." - Steve Novak
agreed
they have not played together…we dont know how good or bad we may end up being…
also, Yao is a big question but so is every player every year…more so for Yao for sure but he could come back at 20/10 or 15/8 etc…but Bosh could blow is ACL or whatever this summer…
I agree,
that with our current roster we are now competitive in the west mainly due to the departure of boozer and amare to the east. Utah killed us with their size, not anymore. Pheonix and freaking Amare, not anymore. SA is getting older, and its becoming very noticeable (exception of Manu). LA is 70% Kobe, 30% Gasol (fuck the rest of the team, they contribute on sporadic basis and can’t expect shit from t hem) Kobe SHOULD be on his way down with his age. But who knows that dude could be drinking from the fountain of youth to keep his body young and competitive.
That being said, we have to worry about Dallas and 30+ year old dirk, Denver, and OKC. So hopefully if we think short term like in 2-3 years Kobe, TD, and Dirk will be really slow. And we have yao for the Chinese market playing limited minutes but we got our young talent ready to win the championship.
you may be right on many points but nothing is set in stone...
FA is just starting and who knows what is going to go down.
LA =#1
after that it is some combo of Portland, Houston, OKC, and maybe Denver and Dallas.
I just don’t see Denver getting back to two years ago with Chauncey getting older and their team is just so streaky…they overachieved before and without a good coach to help guide the chaos I just don’t see it happening
Dallas will make the playoffs then fade as usual…bitch team for a crappy city
I can agree
I wasn’t Anti-Bosh or anything. I just think a max level guy needs to be able to carry a team if it’s needed. And with Yao’s spotty injury history, it just might be.
I think in a couple of years we would be dreading his contract and trying desperately to dump him.
well put mike
we could have gotten a championship with him….maybe…maybe…and if we did great and it all would have been worth it…
it also could have clogged our team up for years if it didn’t work out.
now we should focus on getting Durant next year…just kidding. Actually not kidding that much but it isn’t going to happen.
well
we could have gotten a championship with him….maybe…maybe…and if we did great and it all would have been worth it…
Do you have a better option?
The Dream Shake ...on Twitter.
"I think girls are probably just better shooters." - Steve Novak
Exactly
What were the better available options for the Rockets realistically? I didnt see any. I like our team, but that doesnt mean we shouldn’t try to upgrade when we can.
Also Lebron and Wade, 2 guys that want to win a championship both wanted Bosh, which has to tell you something. Wade and Lebron have high basketball IQs so they know what they are doing.
Differnce between Wade and lebron playing with bosh
Is that wade and lebron carries the team, they just want bosh as insurance for themselves. BOSH doesn’t carry the team, WADE AND LBJ does.
Is it legal
to threaten to torch a stadium if they don’t trade a player? That’s a plausible strategy for Durant.
I'm always right, this isn't conjecture, merely statement of fact.
+1
and not just cause he is a longhorn…though that helps
That one
is a bit far. As a guy who injures his ankle/leg a lot, I can’t believe anyone would wish that, even jokingly.
I'm always right, this isn't conjecture, merely statement of fact.
dude...no knocking Durant...ever
the guy is a class act, an offensive stud…and a freakin longhorn for christ sake.
we can pull all sort of comments against any Jazz player, Paul Pierce, Amare etc….but not Durant. The guy is truely nice and humble.
I hope his toothpick frame posterizes Bosh for not coming to Houston and makes Lebron his bitch with the number of rings he wins and LBJ doesn’t
by John P on Jul 7, 2010 6:15 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
OOPS meants DOENS't PULL.
I would never wish for KD to suffer the same fat as Shawn Livingston. I could barely watch the replay when his knee bent the wrong way.
+10000000000000000000000000000
couldn’t have said it better myself.
Side-note
This line of thought has riddled clutchfans and drives me nuts. . .
SHUT UP ABOUT AL JEFFERSON. He doesn’t fill a need, has NO knees, and provides only a little more firepower scoring or rebound-wise than Scola.
Wafer . . . again. (Marv Albert, HOU v. CLE Feb 2009)
-one of the FEW at Toyota Center who has the Wafer jersey
yea they speak alot about him
Im not sure their basketball IQ is too great collectively
Rockets-Texans-Dynamo-Longhorn fan.. used to be Astros too, but not sure there a pro team anymore
Yes
I have noticed that. Thank God for The Dream Shake!
"voted for the Jazz"
ooooh, that’s like being a pedophile – it never goes away. //grudgedave//
by ressaliance_00 on Jul 7, 2010 11:12 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't agree with you about Jefferson
Not at all. And I want him as the back-up 4/5, not the starter. Why is that bad?
www.TheDreamShake.com Co-Founder and Writer
because that's not what he wants
He would NEVER take that well. And why pay someone tons of money to see 25 minutes a night?
The Dream Shake ...on Twitter.
"I think girls are probably just better shooters." - Steve Novak
Players don't think that way
They want to win, but they want to be a major part of it to, at least players of Jefferson’s caliber.
The Dream Shake ...on Twitter.
"I think girls are probably just better shooters." - Steve Novak
Big Als not a backup tho
and Im sure he wont play 2nd fiddle to Coke-a-Scola
Rockets-Texans-Dynamo-Longhorn fan.. used to be Astros too, but not sure there a pro team anymore
Yea we dont need an inside presence like Al and saying he has no knees is the same as Yao having no feet.
by mangelq75 on Jul 7, 2010 1:30 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
No way Jefferson is brought in as a backup
He’s the starter and Scola is likely part of a sign and trade for him.
I share the same sentiment but its time to move on
the reality is that we can only get a top tier superstar via trade or draft, bites but lets move on
Rockets-Texans-Dynamo-Longhorn fan.. used to be Astros too, but not sure there a pro team anymore
I agree thats why Im not stressin
Rockets-Texans-Dynamo-Longhorn fan.. used to be Astros too, but not sure there a pro team anymore
As i posted in the previous thread
I really don’t get this move that BOSH or GM Colangelo just made, but nothing we can do about it now. Sure it would have been great to have Bosh, but it would have meant missing Scola/ and prolly at least Ariza or Battier along with more picks.
So now lets see who I want. Im on the get Brad Miller wagon. I think he would be a great addition to Yao and our Bigs.
by EveryHoustonTeamRox! on Jul 7, 2010 1:24 PM CDT reply actions
If we get David Lee and let Scola go...
I lose it.
The Dream Shake ...on Twitter.
"I think girls are probably just better shooters." - Steve Novak
But you were fine with Bosh and no Scola?
Seriously, Bosh is damn good, but David Lee is pretty impressive himself.
I wouldn’t do it either, but I’d understand if they did. Now having both is the way to go
www.TheDreamShake.com Co-Founder and Writer
Yes, I was fine with Bosh and no Scola.
The Dream Shake ...on Twitter.
"I think girls are probably just better shooters." - Steve Novak
Bosh is better than Scola and Lee
Lee is nice but lets not get too far ahead
Rockets-Texans-Dynamo-Longhorn fan.. used to be Astros too, but not sure there a pro team anymore
Agreed, he is better
But how much better? Is it 25%? 10%? I think it’s around that level, 10% better. Is that really worth it?
www.TheDreamShake.com Co-Founder and Writer
well Bosh does everything on O better than Lee and
hes a better defender so IMO the gap between the 2 is quite significant
Rockets-Texans-Dynamo-Longhorn fan.. used to be Astros too, but not sure there a pro team anymore
10% or 25% ...
What does 10% better mean? 10% more points? If you can change a postion, PF for example, and pick up 10% more points on average per game, then you JUMP TO GET IT DONE. How many games does a team lose by only a few points? And if a player is 25% better based on point difference then it is a huge difference. It is the difference in a $20 million player and a $4 million player.
Bosh is exponentially better IMO
his impact on the game and the attention he draws that frees up other ppl etc just makes him so much better
Rockets-Texans-Dynamo-Longhorn fan.. used to be Astros too, but not sure there a pro team anymore
The problem with your logic
is that if a player is a nominal upgrade (10%) or so you also are playing with dollars, not just fictitious assets to move them.
In the case of all metrics that prove a players true worth through effective field goal percentage and true shooting percentage and the likes you run into problems. Let’s use the Bosh/Scola example. Scola’s eFG% is better than Bosh’s and his TS% is off by less than .02%. Now let’s compare contracts. Scola barely gets within whiffing distance of 4 million a year. Bosh is due 16.5 mil if he signs a max FA contract. That is 4 times the price of Scola for .02% better shot percentage.
Value is a big issue. You don’t chase a player for 10% or even 25% if it means you have to quadruple the salary just because “A few games come down to a few points.” Those few points could be a ref swallowed a whistle, a couple of free throws, or just dumb luck shots went down. No player in the league will safeguard you from those.
I'm always right, this isn't conjecture, merely statement of fact.
10% = Nominal?!?
::looks up definition::
- insignificantly small; a matter of form only (`tokenish’ is informal); “the fee was nominal”; “a token gesture of resistance”; “a toknenish gesture”
- existing in name only; "the nominal (or titular) head of his party
You TOTALLY pay that extra money because those 10%-25% increases are what takes a player from good(Scola) to very good(Bosh), or great(maybe Bosh).
Say you had a team, even say it was the Rockets, and make the best player on the team be, say, Scola. Then (using the Rockets), you take away Brooks, and sub in a decent, but not MIP caliber PG, and also take away Martin, and sub in a decent, but not good scoring player, you get a team that wins 28 games. Go ahead and take out the Battier-type player too, just cause. You know, so they overachieve and win 28. THATS NOT A GOOD TEAM!
Given, the Rockets aren’t that team, but I don’t see how taking Bosh, and adding him to that group of guys doesn’t make them better.
Scola is a solid player, and I love having him on the team, but even in the East, if Louis is the best player on your team, you’re going to have a really, really good chance to be picking #2-3 every year.
I love how so many people are so completely sold on Martin as a HUGE part of our team, just cause DM said he was a great fit(and go figure, he was right), but as soon as Daryl goes after Bosh, they assume that he’s just doing his best to make the team we love worse. The brilliant logic here is stunning.
End of story.
Just your average, run of the mill hardcore casual Texans fan.
Introducing...
Aura, who will from now on be further known as “That Guy.”
The Dream Shake ...on Twitter.
"I think girls are probably just better shooters." - Steve Novak
I think
you misunderstood me Autra. By the by, I started following you on Twitter, I’ve appreciated everything you’ve contributed.
When I said the 10% upgrade isn’t worth pursuit I said it from certain positions. Not that you don’t go for it if it’s reasonable. Let’s face it, you do the upgrade if the salaries aren’t wrecking you. You ignored the value side of the proposal. I’m all for chasing value purchases. But at 4 times the price for a 10% increase in production I find it to be incredibly nominal. It’s one of those, if you have a Porsche you know a Bugatti will run you faster, harder, and all these wonderful things. Do you scrap everything you own in life for the Bugatti? No because it costs the same as selling off your entire family and mortgaging 6 homes. The Porsche will run you fine, do all you need, and at nothing nearly the cost of the Bugatti.
Also, the fact that your post contained titular made me happy, reminisced to Upright Citizen’s Brigade.
So please, consider value in the upgrade aspect. Morey upgraded our roster on value with a lot of quality pieces. He didn’t break the bank for any of them and got people whose production is about the same as the big money makers.
I'm always right, this isn't conjecture, merely statement of fact.
It's 10% at the PF slot
And -50% at the SF spot and backup center (since Hill was likely gone). That is the problem. You can’t only take one part into account.
www.TheDreamShake.com Co-Founder and Writer
agree for the most part but at some point you have to pay the premium
I dont know if that is for Bosh necessarily…lets hope not but I do think that at some point cheap value players only get you so far. At some point you pay that extra money to go from Kevin Martin to Danny Granger (if that is even a proper comparison) or to go from Lebron to Kobe, because that extra 5 million or whatever it is, is what you need to win a title vs. just being very good. It is diminishing marginal returns for sure but the payoff if you win a ring is worth it
yea lateral movement at best
Rockets-Texans-Dynamo-Longhorn fan.. used to be Astros too, but not sure there a pro team anymore
What can Lee do
better than Scola that justifies what we would have to give up to get him?
I’d much rather keep Scola than acquire Lee.
misunderstood me Kerns
Im saying theres no need for Lee cuz theyre very similar.. I prefer Scola cuz he fits in so well with wat we do, I dont want Lee
Rockets-Texans-Dynamo-Longhorn fan.. used to be Astros too, but not sure there a pro team anymore
no offense taken mane ;)
Rockets-Texans-Dynamo-Longhorn fan.. used to be Astros too, but not sure there a pro team anymore
all aboard
B Miller would be perfect.. but in the other thread some ppl dont agree with me and that Brad would hinder the development of Hill and Patterson.. wtf? Hills development can only improve and Patterson is a 4 not a 5, also Hill can only play MORE minutes than the limited time he got last yr so hes gona get better no matter wat
Rockets-Texans-Dynamo-Longhorn fan.. used to be Astros too, but not sure there a pro team anymore
Get a small forward
The main justification for Brad Miller is a backup for an injured Yao. If Yao can play 30-34 min, what is Brad Miller going to do? Sit on the bench and watch. And if Yao gets injured and Brad Miller plays big minutes, then what? The Rockets hope for luck in the lottery. There are plenty of bench C’s to fill in a few minutes. Yao has to play big time or the Rockets are going nowhere. And if Yao can play big time, then the Rockets can contend if they can score from SF. So get a small forward who can score, then hope Yao is healthy and the Rockets are serious. And if Yao cannot play then let’s hope for luck with the lottery. Question: Do we get to select between the Rockets pick and the Knicks pick before or after the lottery is done?
see you missed the whole reasoning to signBrad Miller
he would be signed to limit Yaos minutes, if Yao plays 30-34 mins a game theres no need to sign Brad and as a result Yao will get hurt again, hes goin to play 20 to 30 at the most starting the season cuz a man that size with that type of surgery needs to take his time perhaps until the All Star break.. u need Brad Miller to eat those C minutes and he would be quite productive cuz of his knowledge of our system.. we have 2 SF’s, Ariza is a proven championship level complimentary SF and Battier is the glue guy every team wants Idk wat ur talking about there bud.. Yao has to be dominant but he will be effeciently dominant and that will be enuf with the great team we have..
we’re accepting to flip picks with NY today cuz we’re makin the playoffs and theyre gona be in the lottery once more ;)
Rockets-Texans-Dynamo-Longhorn fan.. used to be Astros too, but not sure there a pro team anymore
Agreed, I'm being talked into this Brad Miller thing more and more
www.TheDreamShake.com Co-Founder and Writer
yea hes jus savvy
and quietly gets the job done
Rockets-Texans-Dynamo-Longhorn fan.. used to be Astros too, but not sure there a pro team anymore
Brad Miller is 37 anyways,
not like he should expect to be a starter or get starting minutes. So even if he plays 10 mins a game thats enough for him at this stage. But he can sure as hell teach the young big fellas on our team learn how to pass.
It's the NBA,not NBA2K
Martin,Brooks,Yao will score. Scola can score. Offense from the SF is not a problem,the team needs somebody who can defend and that’s what the Rockets SFs can do.
For once Summer League is important.
If Hill shows in practices and games he can be the back-up C…
If Taylor shows he can be the back-up SG…
The Rockets are in real good shape.
voice of reason
good points all…
offense will not be the problem.
It would be great to get a player with BOTH great offense and defensive skills but I think Kobe is going to stay in LA…
I think the biggest hole is a solid backup for Yao that can play serious minutes and contribute on D and O…or at least don’t totally hamstring us like Chuck does on O…
Ariza’s D is much more vital than Outlaw’s O
Small forward who can score?
hmmm…i think i know someone who does that…goes by the name of tmac
shop smart, shop S-mart.....YOU GOT THAT!
::vomits blood everywhere::
Just your average, run of the mill hardcore casual Texans fan.
Tom
A LOT of Rockets fans wanted Bosh, but I really don’t think we ever had a real chance at signing him.
He NEVER personally showed ANY interest in playing for US
I believe Morey made the best attempt to attract him just to show fans that he’s listening and is always trying to improve the team. But I’m sure that even he knew it wasn’t going to happen
It’s not like I hate Bosh, he would’ve made us a contender, but y’all were just fooling yourselves thinking he would come here
by Carlos_HoustonSportsFanatic on Jul 7, 2010 1:30 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
dmorey twitter
Congratulations to @chrisbosh on his decision, on behalf of the Rockets, we thank you for the consideration and wish you health & happiness
by EveryHoustonTeamRox! on Jul 7, 2010 1:32 PM CDT reply actions
I'm out for now - WC game.
Good discussion, though. Appreciate the feedback.
The Dream Shake ...on Twitter.
"I think girls are probably just better shooters." - Steve Novak
will we ever know
the truth as to why you decided to put that water post up? Me and my friend are betting on an explanation.
He wins 20 if it was a reference to Bosh in any type of attempted humor.
I win 20 if it was an “insider” and/or you were intoxicated with any illegal substance.
Andrew Jackson is wondering if you’re gonna draw this out longer than LeDouche or not..
by chuckhayesALLSTAR2010 on Jul 7, 2010 1:55 PM CDT up reply actions
I’d like to see the Rockets get Durant but…
… I’ve been hearing today that he is signing a 5 year extension with the Thunder so there that wishful thinking goes…
I had to stop arguing with drunks, Steeler fans, and all other fools.
It was making my brick wall jealous...
yea thatll never happen
would be incredible tho
Rockets-Texans-Dynamo-Longhorn fan.. used to be Astros too, but not sure there a pro team anymore
Bosh is clearly a great player
The article is right. Bosh is a great player and would have fit in very well with the Rockets. Bosh is also an above average defender. Why? Because he is a very much above average player. Bosh may be more offense oriented but he is still Bosh — a super PF. But he is not coming and Scola is here and Scola is very good. Somewhere above someone said a few times that SF is the Rockets need and I agree. Barring injuries, the Rockets are in good shape everywhere but SF. They need a small forward who can score. There are some out there and it doesn’t have to be Lebron. It can be something that the Rockets really can sign. I think that is what is going to happen.
I disagree a little bit
I think Yao is a go to scorer first of all. However, a lot hinges on how well and how quickly he can regain his 08-09’ form. Even though the team last year took steps forward to become a better team with the development of our younger players, we will only get better when there’s someone in the post who has to be guarded 24/7. Yao opens lanes for penetration because bigs have to stay with him a second or two longer. With Ab, Lowry, KMart and Ariza, the floor should open up. the advantage of having a great big like Yao is that we can run our offense through him at the end of games. We don’t necessarily call on him to score from the block every possession, but having him with the ball down low allows the Rockets to open the floor and have more open shots or to move the ball from side to side easier. Not to mention teams should have less fast break opportunities against us with a better offense and defense. I’m excited about the Rockets this year because we are basically adding Yao and Martin to an already scrappy club.
Great post, Tom. I agree that having Bosh would have put us to the Lakers level of contention.
Without him, we’re around the same level as the Suns of this past year. Not a favorite but a contender.
Hopefully, everything falls into place like the Pistons teams, however, we don’t have the same level of defense. With Yao we will be better but probably not in the top 3.
Yao has always been denied in the clutch and towards the end of games. But between Brooks, Martin and even Ariza, I don’t think we should have that much of a problem.
Free agents
Maybe there is too much focus here on free agents. Since the Rockets were planning some kind of sign-and-trade, why does it only mean free agents are the targets? I think the Rockets have a chance to be contenders this year. They just need some pieces to fall into place — Brooks/Lowry to be as good or better, Martin to be as good as he can be at times, Scola to be as good as last season, Yao to return full strength AND for Morey to get a SF that is a serious scoring threat. Then, finally, for all those pieces to remain healthy. The “healthy” part applies to all teams so the Rockets are not special in that sense. The Rockets could conceivably contend NOW.
We can contend. But we’re not really a favorite by any stretch. You usually need a Bosh type to really reach the next level. We’re close though.
Who knows, maybe Brooks continues to improve, Kevin Martin gets back to 25 ppg efficiently, Scola doesn’t decline at all and Yao is back to full strength.
I just feel like even though we have great bench we simply don’t have the star power. I hope I’m wrong. Well, the Suns were one or two plays away, so anything can happen.
by VBG on Jul 7, 2010 2:31 PM CDT up reply actions
From FSN Houston
Rockets General Manage Daryl Morey indicated that if Bosh did not come to Houston, the team would pursue a trade to upgrade the front court.
"When you talk about a trade, our priorities are the same," Morey said last week. "We’re looking for maybe a real top-end player to pair with Yao Ming."
The Rockets could create a trade package similar to any trade package that would have been part of a sign and trade with the Raptors for Bosh. Trevor Ariza, Jordan Hill and Shane Battier may all go in a trade.
The Rockets will also now place extra emphasis on signing restricted free agents Luis Scola and Kyle Lowry. While Morey has said all along that retaining those players is a priority, either player or both could have been involved in a sign and trade for a free agent. Had Bosh become a Rocket, Scola would have been expendable. Scola and Lowry could still end up as part of a trade package. But, since Scola and Lowry are restricted free agents, the players would have to agree to the trade.
One other option is to sign a second-tier free agent big-man such as Brad Miller. The Rockets have had interest in Miller since free agency began. Miller and Rockets head coach Rick Adelman even had dinner in Chicago last week.
Wednesday, Miller’s agent, Mark Bartelstein, said, "Daryl (Morey) and I are working every day on it. We’re working on a lot of scenarios."
Thanks for the info
Other than signing a backup C I don’t think anything happens for the Rockets until the next trade deadline in the season, I could be wrong though.
Yup
Let’s not forget about the trade deadline, people.
The Dream Shake ...on Twitter.
"I think girls are probably just better shooters." - Steve Novak
iono why but he isnt imo
hes goin to ATL as a backup to Horford
Rockets-Texans-Dynamo-Longhorn fan.. used to be Astros too, but not sure there a pro team anymore
yea his days as a starter are over
ala Bill Walton last days in Boston
Rockets-Texans-Dynamo-Longhorn fan.. used to be Astros too, but not sure there a pro team anymore
hmm
conflicting “sources” on my end lol
if espn can use that term loosely so can I ;)
Rockets-Texans-Dynamo-Longhorn fan.. used to be Astros too, but not sure there a pro team anymore
Other than Al Jefferson
what big guy could they pair with Yao that would be better than Scola?
hes the guy that immediately popped into my head when i read that
Rockets-Texans-Dynamo-Longhorn fan.. used to be Astros too, but not sure there a pro team anymore
oh... (crickets)
well thats wat they been reporting on espn, I guess the rumors already dead
Rockets-Texans-Dynamo-Longhorn fan.. used to be Astros too, but not sure there a pro team anymore
this is very true
theyve certainly lost some credibility IMO within this past week
Rockets-Texans-Dynamo-Longhorn fan.. used to be Astros too, but not sure there a pro team anymore
Here DM's last tweet
“Congratulations to @chrisbosh on his decision, on behalf of the Rockets, we thank you for the consideration and wish you health & happiness”
Morey is a class act.
mayb he meant "wealth and happiness" lol
altho he’da made more with us.. wat ya think he has for plan B?
Rockets-Texans-Dynamo-Longhorn fan.. used to be Astros too, but not sure there a pro team anymore
I still hope
he laughs his ass off on TV when Yao posterizes Bosh at some point next season.
…yeah, I am not a class act…sour grapes a bit
"we’re a bad team masquerading as an abysmal team". - AstroB about the Astros
by RocketsAstros on Jul 7, 2010 3:27 PM CDT up reply actions
its w/e lets take the high road
mainly too cuz he NEVER indicated he wanted to come here ya kno?
hard to be mad at someone who never made any sort of commitment or acknowledgement
Rockets-Texans-Dynamo-Longhorn fan.. used to be Astros too, but not sure there a pro team anymore
me too
thats gonna be awesome when we do
by chuckhayesALLSTAR2010 on Jul 7, 2010 3:31 PM CDT up reply actions
UPDATE: Did you read his latest tweet?
“Dream94, on behalf of Houston, I thank you for deepthroating me in the least subtle way possible.”
by chuckhayesALLSTAR2010 on Jul 7, 2010 3:29 PM CDT up reply actions
you're reading way too much into this
just a simple joke. why is it, you believe, that you appear to be so serious?
by chuckhayesALLSTAR2010 on Jul 7, 2010 3:35 PM CDT up reply actions
Come on you guys
Play nice now.
Let’s keep this place fun. I’m sure it wasn’t meant in a vicious way Dream94.
thanks Mike :)
Love you, UofTOrange, Grungedave, and Nick’s writing!
by chuckhayesALLSTAR2010 on Jul 7, 2010 3:41 PM CDT up reply actions
really though
in the big scheme of things, why is there a limit? Do you really care, and does it matter 3 days from now? After all, we’re all cheering for the same team.
by chuckhayesALLSTAR2010 on Jul 7, 2010 3:39 PM CDT up reply actions
wtf
??
"we’re a bad team masquerading as an abysmal team". - AstroB about the Astros
by RocketsAstros on Jul 7, 2010 3:36 PM CDT up reply actions
Sorry, this is going to be a really, really long comment
Tom and Lee get into a squabble early on in the threading of the comments over the impact Bosh would have on the team upgrade-wise. The biggest issue, as I have been adamant about, is length. The Rockets have bigs, but not long ones. BD34 also points to this as an issue, and this is where Bosh. He brings what Scola does to the table, with a little more defense from his genetics, and a little more offense because of his speed and subsequent ability to take people off the dribble.
This is where evidence of Bosh’s ISO skills unveil themselves. He has a quick pump fake, and unlike most big men, is able to drive off of it. That, to me, is one of the foundations of ISO basketball, and is why I disagree with Tom insasmuch as I do think Kevin Martin has ISO skills, which usually unfold in the form of FTA’s.
Tom addresses Yao as an ISO scorer, and I’d like to remark on that – I think Yao is MORE effective as an ISO scorer for the Rockets post-op than pre-op because ISO limits his movement on the floor. In p&r / s&r situations, Yao is forced to be much more mobile; conversely, low-post ISO either draws a double team which leads to open shooters, or he gets fronted and he rotates out to the high post to create lanes in the paint. The Rockets issue, as I have said before, is NOT offense (especially with Yao in the lineup), it’s frontcourt LENGTH and frontcourt DEFENSE.
Lee and Tom also engage on what is definitely the most important question any sane team does in the offseason this year: ‘Where do we stand relative to the current champs?’ BD34 dabbles in this discussion a bit, as do Tom and Lee, but the crucial thing is how the two teams have changed. The Lakers have added Steve Blake and Ron Artest; the Rockets have added Ariza, Hill, Martin. I agree with Tom that they are still better than us, and while we can compete with them at the highest level allowable (WCF), I wouldn’t invest money in the Rockets winning that series. There are perimeter mismatches that either force us to sacrifice offense by putting Battier and Ariza on the floor simultaneously if Martin struggles defensively to guard Artest, and as of now we still don’t have enough length in the frontcourt to overwhelm them. I do think we are, at least, on par with Denver and OKC (the former is too unpredictable to bet on, and the latter is too dependent on KD35 and RW0 offensively), and very close to where the Lakers are. To me, we are flat out better than the Lakers in the wake of a Chris Bosh signing, not ‘competitive with them.’ If we add the right pieces, though, (which I trust DM to do) we can be very competitive with them and perhaps have the ability to gut out that kind of series. This is where Tom is fundamentally right – Bosh, to me, would’ve been an almost-GUARANTEE of thwarting the Lakers 3peat attempts, whereas now we can hopefully collect pieces to slow them down enough to hope to scrape out a series, which, while possible, is never the best strategy.
Just remembered: Lee thinks we need an upgrade at the 3 and I think this is due some lip service. Tom’s answer is that it’s easy to upgrade there, to which Lee responds that it is that much more important to find a big upgrade there. My question is how possible is a SIGNIFICANT upgrade at that position? To me, I think Travis Outlaw is as significant as it can get. In an ideal world, I see us keeping Ariza (who is a GREAT 5th option and an elite defender against the league’s best wingmen, especially Kobe), trading Battier for Przybilla (sorry, this idea just delights me so much), and signing Outlaw with the MLE, who despite being better than Ariza on the offensive end, can be a HUGE spark off the bench. But to me, we’re good at SF, and if we want to be better that’s the only big splash we can make.
Wafer . . . again. (Marv Albert, HOU v. CLE Feb 2009)
-one of the FEW at Toyota Center who has the Wafer jersey
by olivarezq1 on Jul 7, 2010 3:42 PM CDT reply actions 3 recs
summary please.
ROCKETS!!!!!!!!!!!!
by Roxbybirth on Jul 7, 2010 3:46 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
2nd to last, and last, paragraph are prob most important
the first couple are continuing a discussion with lee / tom over Bosh, KM12, iso scoring, etc.
Wafer . . . again. (Marv Albert, HOU v. CLE Feb 2009)
-one of the FEW at Toyota Center who has the Wafer jersey
Do you agree that we need another star/superstar to really get to the next level and surpass the current Lakers?
by VBG on Jul 7, 2010 7:40 PM CDT up reply actions
If we got bosh with straight up cash thats ones thing,
but the potential loss of all the young talent that we are developing for the future just never sat well with me. I don’t see the point of gutting the team thru trades if we did get bosh then yao is done in the near future, then the team comprises of bosh, and ariza. Yao and Scola are both near or in their 30s. And seeing how Yaos body is already injury prone, his durability is very questionable. He may have less than 3 years left in him. Scola has a few good years left as well due to his age and mileage from playing for Argentina and Euroleague prior to the nba.
So what happens if we get bosh? we get 1-2 good years, not even guaranteed to beat the lakers, gut out our young talent, then lookin 3 years ahead we are back to where we were a few years ago. Nothing on our roster.
good point...you are partially forgiven for mistakenly talking about Durant getting hurt
us longhorns are very loyal to our guys
Ah i corrected myself, I MEANT NOT get hurt like Shawn.
And I’m a UCLA alumni, so I don’t care about Longhorns (sorry fellas).
Very good post
Rec’d
I love the Outlaw signing. I don’t think it has to be big, we just can’t have two defense only SFs on the roster. One all offense and one all defense is perfectly within what I want. And Battier for Przybilla is a win for us too, as much as we all like Shane
www.TheDreamShake.com Co-Founder and Writer
The kicker
is he (Battier) makes Fernandez even more tradable for them than he is already because they’d be able to slide Batum to the bench (and I, for one, think Rudy is a hot commodity right now, and would be interested in him if we didn’t have his ginger clone). He also helps anchor their D and gives Babbitt a tested vet to learn with. I really do think this is a trade that helps both teams out, which is the only displeasing part because watching Morey screw others is funny.
If we can get Miller to bite on the LLE, sign Outlaw for the full MLE, acquire Przybilla-for-Battier, and then go over the cap to re-sign Lowry and Scola, I think that’s a team instantly ready to contend with the Lakers (though they would still not be the horse to bet on).
Wafer . . . again. (Marv Albert, HOU v. CLE Feb 2009)
-one of the FEW at Toyota Center who has the Wafer jersey
so we get Miller, Pryzbilla, and Outlaw, for Battier and then over the tax for Scola and Lowry
Fine I guess…depends on Joel’s knee status and whether or not any of these guys want to come to Houston.
My guess is that with so many team so depleted there is going to be a lot of demand for all of these guys. I think the idea of playing behind Yao is probably attractive for Miller or Joel as they will get serious minutes as we try and rest Yao a lot.
Who knows. I really don’t know if we need outlaw with Ariza, Battier and Bud able to play SF. Even if Bud wants to play SG…at the end of the day a real rotation is probably only 8 players deep: key players on the current squad would be Bud, Lowry, Miller/Joel and Hill. I don’t see why or where Outlaw fits in. to me Ariza has enough offense and better D and we already have him. Don’t give up Battier’s D for it when we don’t need it.
Cowherd reporting Outlaw to the Nets.
http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/nba/news/story?id=5363686
Wreck 'em Tech! Go Rockets!
by Rock Creator on Jul 8, 2010 11:31 AM CDT up reply actions
No such thing as a guarantee (and sorry #2?)
I agree with the sentiment that getting Bosh would’ve been great, and its the Rockets’ loss that we did not get Bosh. Simple. Any top-tier free agent like Bosh would’ve been great, especially since the Rockets have many assets that they could’ve used to swing a sign-and-trade (before losing said assets through free agency)
On another note, I do not agree with the assertion that we needed Bosh because of his ISO skills or because of added length to the frontcourt. Those two things are just a part of the package – a package we needed in full. Bosh is a good player, period. He’s good off-ball as well, and that’s important. Yes, he’s extremely effective in the ISO game, and we do need more length. But I don’t think that Bosh will do any better than Scola guarding Gasol. It’s not like KG did an amazing job on Gasol even though he’s basically 7 feet tall and is one of the best defenders of this era, even after “losing a step”. The real way to win a championship is through the team – a team that collectively embraces a philosophy of winning.
I don’t think signing Chris Bosh makes us automatically better than the Lakers. That’s just silly, and ignores the fact that there are STILL perimeter mismatches. And I dislike Tom’s notion that the Rockets don’t have an ISO option – his name is Yao, and he’s the reason why the Rockets would be championship contenders in the first place, not Chris Bosh. Bosh will not elevate the Rockets to be better than the Lakers, as long as Yao doesn’t play. Can the Rockets win a 7 game series against the Lakers w/ Chris Bosh and w/o Yao? Possibly, Adelman’s coached against Jackson like 10000 times in the playoffs. Would I favor them to? no. The way the Rockets beat the Lakers is with a full strength Yao and good ball movement. Yao hasn’t had a dynamic backcourt like Brooks and KMart yet, and if the Rockets play good team defense (a la Popovich), we can funnel the court into Yao. It’s not like Parker and Ginobili are amazing defenders either.
by B- on Jul 8, 2010 2:21 AM CDT up reply actions
Boozer to Bulls, 5 years $80 mil
The Dream Shake ...on Twitter.
"I think girls are probably just better shooters." - Steve Novak
say what you will but Chicago with Boozer is pretty damn good
PG with Rose, Boozer at PF and Noah at Center is extremely strong. Add in a coupld of role players/MLE SF and SG and you have a pretty solid team. At LBJ and this makes the team better than Miami in the East for sure.
Not that anyone cares but I will get into the above debate later about who to do now, fallout from Bosh etc…
As usual, it will be pretty much redundant of everyone elses’ points but really else am I going to do tonight? Watch baseball…I would rather watch paint dry. Is October here yet?
probably, but the FA and trade season is just getting started...who knows what moron wants to go to Utah for money...
or to have multiple wives…If only Tiger played BBall it would be perfect for him
by John P on Jul 7, 2010 4:06 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Hahaha
+1
"we’re a bad team masquerading as an abysmal team". - AstroB about the Astros
by RocketsAstros on Jul 7, 2010 4:08 PM CDT up reply actions
umm..
That’s place-ist. Plus they have Hayward. You see how he carried Butler? I see “Flash”-es of D-Wade in the kid.
by chuckhayesALLSTAR2010 on Jul 7, 2010 4:10 PM CDT up reply actions
I like wearing special underwear as much as the next guy but...
“place-ist”…its true
Great points Tom
the bottom line is Chris Bosh is better then Scola. Scola had every chance last year to prove he was on Bosh’s playing level and didnt. Like i have said before Landry emerged as our go to guy and star. Scola like Brooks last year was too inconsistent, thats seperates the 2nd tier players, from the premier players who are consisitent with there play. Martin is also a second tier player, thats why when rumors came out about trading for Joe Johnson I was hoping we pulled off the deal. Scola can be upgraded, maybe Al Jefferson, or Anthony Randolph from G.State. Those two should not require alot of our players in return.
by since86rocketsfan on Jul 7, 2010 3:56 PM CDT reply actions
you are wrong on many counts my friend...no offense
Scola is very consistent and very good. Maybe not as good as Bosh but not nearly heads and sholders below him. Brooks is also pretty consistent and it still growing his game. Notice he got the most IMPROVED award, not the MVP award. I don’t see Al Jeff being an upgrade for Scola at all. Who knows how durable Al Jeff is anymore after his injury problems. Scola brought his game every freakin game. Give me that 75+ games a year over a “better” player who only plays 65 games a year.
Don’t know Anthony Randolf enough to comment…maybe he is better but I doubt it. Scola’s hair alone gets him many points.
That play
toward the end of the season (forgot which game exactly) where Scola dove for a loose ball at our basket and then ran all the way for a driving layup while getting fouled alone proves what kinda guy Scola is.
"we’re a bad team masquerading as an abysmal team". - AstroB about the Astros
by RocketsAstros on Jul 7, 2010 4:15 PM CDT up reply actions
How am i wrong
when you just admitted Bosh is better. Brooks is good but turns the ball over to much for a point guard. Scola can be upgraded, and Al played 76 games last year, that is durable. He has only played five seasons in the league. Randolph is young,raw and 6,10. His upside is high, he cant get along with Nellie just like many other power forwards, that Nellie coached.
by since86rocketsfan on Jul 7, 2010 4:22 PM CDT up reply actions
You forgot
rule number 1 John, since is never wrong and Hell will be raised for implying he could be. Randolph is most likely going to be a bust, lots of potential, piss poor attitude. Think Stromile Swift.
I'm always right, this isn't conjecture, merely statement of fact.
Why do you
people with no basketball knowledge always want to comment. You disagree with everybodys blog, but have yet to offer anything to our post. And you really think by just watching highlights, that you can debate with people who actually watch Rockets games. I told you to upgrade and get the nba league pass, and maybe you will finally make some valid points. Everybody knows we are a playoff team, and chemistry is important, but a upgrade at a position will not deplete our team. We also have two exceptions, which we can add players. Other teams are getting better, we must view our options. With this roster we are a 4- 8 playoff seed.
by since86rocketsfan on Jul 7, 2010 4:53 PM CDT up reply actions
attacking people,
especially fellow fans on Dreamshake, is immature. Dipshit.
by chuckhayesALLSTAR2010 on Jul 7, 2010 4:59 PM CDT up reply actions
yessir
I found 83 cents in my backyard after last night's party..I'm not returning it until the owner describes what coins were lost in EXACT change. -Willie White's status
by chuckhayesALLSTAR2010 on Jul 7, 2010 5:26 PM CDT up reply actions
The offseason is not over
I am sure Morey is doing his magic calculations and plotting something probably as we speak.
"we’re a bad team masquerading as an abysmal team". - AstroB about the Astros
by RocketsAstros on Jul 7, 2010 5:12 PM CDT up reply actions
Could you do me a favor
and please tell me just what you contribute? You constantly tow the same line despite being shown otherwise and you just keep up the crotchety “YOU DON’T HAVE LEAGUE PASS AND AREN’T IN MARKET HURRRRR!” line. I think it’s pretty clear that I contribute to discussions on this board and discuss with others, whereas you just piss and moan and tell people they’re wrong. So please, contribute or leave, antagonization without contribution isn’t the most conducive thing to this board.
I'm always right, this isn't conjecture, merely statement of fact.
Summary of olivarezq1's book
“If I had a time machine, it would be cool if Chris Bosh would sign with us. Then we’d be a better team.” -the author
Mike, no way LBJ’s decision isn’t already set in stone. I can see Boozer fitting in well..him and Noah would compliment each other well
by chuckhayesALLSTAR2010 on Jul 7, 2010 3:58 PM CDT reply actions
battle royal: Wade/Bosh vs. LBJ/Boozer/Rose/Noah
…with just that lineup Chicago definitely wins…but it depends on who Miami can sign to fill out their depleted roster. from what i have read they may be paying me $9 an hour plus free soda to come off the bench for them….and I have to wash my own jersey after games
NO WAI!
Mr. Walkway, Mr. Look-at-me-I’m king-of-the-walkway FUCK YOU.
by chuckhayesALLSTAR2010 on Jul 7, 2010 4:21 PM CDT up reply actions
dude...i got ripped!
I am going to demand to be traded (for a 6 pack of beer and Baron Davis’ sweaty head band)
Even without Bosh
I can’t wait till next season!
by chuckhayesALLSTAR2010 on Jul 7, 2010 5:05 PM CDT reply actions
Well
Bosh would’ve been nice but it’s at least not Carlos Beltran devastating
He would’ve made all the difference in the world, at least solidify us as a playoff staple, but I was not convinced he was the guy that’ll deliver up to the promise land, so I’m not crying over it.
lets face it, we were a long shot, since he had little intention to play in TX or play any center
Right now I more worry about the LBJ to NYC, it would rip Cleveland’s heart out, and we would be somewhat affected by it
I think the Celtics have that sewn up.
Or at least propped up in a walker.
by DribbleHooper on Jul 8, 2010 12:59 AM CDT up reply actions
And a lot of people saying
that Lebron has chosen the Knicks…which would mean our picks mean nothing now
I don't buy that myself
I guess we’ll see tommorow.
The player I would like least at #9 would be my sister’s cat, Captain Creamsicle. She does have a great work ethic and agility, but I’m really concerned that at 9 lbs., she’s too small to play safety in the NFL. She also bites way too often on play action and is easily distracted by someone waving string in the crowd. Lastly, her wonderlic score was pretty awful, answering "meow meow meow" for most of the questions- Dr. Brackish Okun
Great article by Wojo on Yahoo!....
…about Lebron’s ESPN “The Decision”. I for one will be boycotting that nonsense and wait to hear who he chose online. I don’t think I’ll ever be a Lebron fan after all of this free agency nonsense; pulling and tugging on different fan bases and organizations all just to set up what Wojo calls Jame’s “Infomercial”. He’s likely gonna pull the rug out from under Cleveland and use this charity bit to cover up what an @ss he is….“Look what I did for the children”…. Not sure who he thinks he’s fooling, as I imagine everyone outside of Miami will see right through it. Pathetic. We should all boycott ESPN AND LEBRON on this one. For Lebron’s sake I hope he chooses Cleveland and proves me wrong about his character…..
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AiCPSHKGSRTAtPnybehSJmE5nYcB?slug=aw-lebrondecision070710
Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.
by Brew22 on Jul 7, 2010 6:29 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Privately, Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh weren’t pleased on Wednesday morning with the belief that James’ camp was responsible for leaking their plans to a television partner, but then again it makes perfect sense: This isn’t about Wade and Bosh choosing the Heat. It’s about LeBron getting the stage to himself on Thursday night.
What a bunch of fucking children…
you are suprised...?
these are 25ish year olds thinking they own the world cause they were lucky enough with the genetic lottery or they grew up with someone who was.
I love the sport of basketball, the best atheletes playing the most fluid and interesting game ever…but sometimes the sheer stupidity of the players and coaches involved makes me want to cry…
Not everyone is Shane Battier, Yao Ming or Hakeem the Dream….we don’t call him the Dream for nothing…
I'm not boycotting, so much as indifferent.
Why waste an hour of my life watching something I can read in a few seconds on the intarwebz?
by DribbleHooper on Jul 8, 2010 1:04 AM CDT up reply actions
To clarify...
When I say that Kevin Martin is not an isolation-type scorer, I don’t mean that he is fundamentally unable to do such a thing. He can. So can Brooks. But Martin is better at it, because as Quinn said, he gets to the free throw line.
I should have used better words. Let’s try “crunch time” scorer. How often do players of Martin’s caliber (he’s not a star like Wade or LeBron, mind you) get calls late in the game? Referees like to let the players play on the final possessions, at least in most cases. Martin, while being an excellent scorer, relies on the whistle quite a bit and isn’t the type who can shoot off the dribble or jab-step a defender and pull up. That’s what Bosh can do, and it’s a very unique attribute.
That was my point. I love Martin.
The Dream Shake ...on Twitter.
"I think girls are probably just better shooters." - Steve Novak
Martin rocks...and in a clutch shot situation I would choose Martin over LBJ
even Lebron was shocked he hit that game winning shot in the playoffs two years ago…
The biggest difference that makes Kobe better than Lebron is Kobe’s ouside/3pt shot. When you dont have time and have to have clutch deadly aim and a small window Kobe wins every time…that is what makes the difference between an almost great and a great player
agreed.
I hate playing against kobe, he can single handily win the game in the 4th quarter. I hated when we were down by 5 in the 4th with Tmac taking the shots just knew in the end it was going to be a loss. LBJ I don’t really care if cleaveland wins or not, but i know hes gona brick most of his shots at the end anyways.
Also
LeBron is in NY for Melo’s wedding. Duh.
The Dream Shake ...on Twitter.
"I think girls are probably just better shooters." - Steve Novak
As for Bosh....
If Yao’s 100% then Morey could have pitched it to him in his sleep. I don’t see Wade and Bosh getting very far with LBJ. They could still get a few pieces but nothing that makes them any better than Orlando, Boston, Chicago, or Cleveland last year. That’s gonna be a 3 year project. I’ll take our team and New York’s top 5 pick next year, top 10 in 2012, and the chance to trade for any pieces we need at the deadline. I’ll also take the sweep of Miami next 2 years. Best of luck to Bosh. He’s a great player….but he does need a new agent as I would have never let a client leave all that money + China’s endorsement money on the table for an inferior team. Go Rockets 2011!
Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.
I meant without LBJ
Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.
Disagree
The notion that the Rockets would be better with Bosh rather than without is ridiculous. I like the team they have now. If they can add a David Lee, that would be such a better fit. You already have three scorers on the floor with AB, K-Mart, and Yao. David Lee is an inside force that does all the dirty work. He’s efficient and a monster rebounder. He, in short, would fill the team’s needs better than a “superstar” that needs the ball in his hands. Adding David Lee and getting a good backup center (Shaq or Brad Miller) will make the Rockets a tough team to beat. IMO.
agreed...I have always loved Lee and tried to bring him into our discussion for some time
at this point, though, I think we only sign him if we can trade Scola for a legit great young backup center who can block the hell out of the ball…which is what we really need.
Lee is a PF or a short center…we need a 7 footer who completely ties up the lane and can push around the lakers glass duo (Odom and Bynum) (Pau actually plays tough and is a bad ass best PF in the game).
If we could do a three way sign and trade-thingy that traded out Scola and Hill or Patterson for Lee and someone like Kaman, healthy Perkins type player that would be ideal.
Lee is a hard working, blue collar, great player. He was long suffering in NYC and just took him lumps and played his ass off. Lets hope he gets his….and NOT in nyc or anywhere out west excpet with the Rockets
Lee. Can. Not. Play. Defense.
Why do people continue to ignore this? It’s getting annoying. Lee isn’t much better than Scola, anyway.
The Dream Shake ...on Twitter.
"I think girls are probably just better shooters." - Steve Novak
Lee is a cheaper Amare
but yeah he’s a liability on D
by NVP on Jul 7, 2010 7:38 PM CDT up reply actions
not saying muchby being cheaper than Amare
lee is also a product of NY, where they suck baddddd. Lee’s stat could be inflated for being one of the few players that can be productive. And its D’antoni system, u know him, run& gun, hurry up and let them score, so you can score faster.
should've got a maybe tag
David Lee has been productive with or without D’antoni, but it’s the same reason why I compare him to Amare, they are both, while talented, some what the product of a system
by NVP on Jul 7, 2010 8:52 PM CDT up reply actions
I. Wasn't. Saying. That. Lee. Was. Necessary. Better. Than. Scola.
only that he would be a good piece if we traded Scola. Frankly we don’t know much about Lee’s defense because he has yet to work for any coach worth a damn…
I bet you lee would work to get better but his height makes his impact on D at the center position always close to impossible.
Monster rebounder?
Bosh pulls down 11 per game. Bosh also is not a “superstar” and does not “need the ball” in his hands – he’s actually quite the opposite.
The Dream Shake ...on Twitter.
"I think girls are probably just better shooters." - Steve Novak
Bosh would've been great
a perfect complement to Yao, but now it’s time to move on. I don’t think there is anyone they could trade for that would be better than Scola, so there probably won’t be any big moves. A signing here or there for backups, that’s about it.
I didn't know much about a lot of the draft picks this year
but I have to say that I have loved what I’ve seen out of Paul George in summer league. And if Terrance Williams ever learns to pass up bad shots, he might contribute this year for the Nets instead of being a bench warmer on a 10 win team.
Speaking of Summer league
I’m impressed by Luke Harangody, big wide body and plays just ridiculously hard, He’s obviously gonna be limited in the NBA, but he knows his strength so well.
Daniel Orton look as horrible as can be though
by NVP on Jul 7, 2010 7:47 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm really enjoying Summer League
It’s a nice alternative to nothing but Astros games all the time. I love watching basketball and these guys play hard for the most part in Summer League. I like the big guy McRobers too on the Pacers. Can shoot it and has game around the rim
I used to go the summer league games in Long Beach
Years ago before it moved to vegas, while i was in college in LA i used to go to summer league games. At that time Ronnie Turiof, Sasha Vujacic and Ronaldo Baulkman were tearing it up in summer league. Point being, summer league is garage when trying to figure out a players impact in the nba. its still comparing the college game to the nba game.
Well you take summer league stats with a grain of salt
because they’re not true NBA competitions, just their first experience with that kind of talent level. Bo Outlaw used to deal out triple doubles in summer league. Bo Outlaw used to deal out triple doubles in summer league.
A lot of subtle thing shows in the summer game, like a player’s attitude, preliminary scouting on strength and weakness. even showcase, like Donte Greene played himself right onto the kings roster while we get Ron in return
by NVP on Jul 7, 2010 8:59 PM CDT up reply actions
its tough to educate nba players.
Bad shot selection has been a curse in the nba, and it will never be lifted.
while Paul Pierce makes 61 mil for 4 years.
Piece have no shame??? If he took a lower deal they may have been able to sign someone to come off the bench. Lets face it against the lakers they had no bench. glenn davis can be very productive or give the opposing center 10 blocks in the game. Nate Robinson is just too sporadic.
I think it was obvious
when he fake the miraculous return that Pierce dont know what shame is.
However this is not completely unexpected
by NVP on Jul 7, 2010 9:02 PM CDT up reply actions
pierce is the greatest basketball player around...
didnt you hear him tell us.
what a freakin joke
i ended up rooting for the Celtics in the finals only because I was sick of LA but at least the silver lining is that pierce lost and looked like an idiot
Who is worse Pierce or Amare? So close….“its only wafer-thin”
David Lee trade to Golden State for Randolph
If Lebron doesn’t go to the Knicks, this deal is in place to happen.
Maybe not getting Bosh could be a blessing this year
Remember we still have other free agents out there for this summer and trading deadline Feb 2011.
I have an unrelated question but didn't know where to post
My friend and i have this debate going. He said back in the 90s there was a gal that sat behind the Rockets bench. She would wear business type attire. A pretty attractive gal. He told me she was like VP of something for the Rockets, but i don’t believe him. I think she was probably an assistant to the trainer. So who was this lady? Thank you.
Its over folks
Lets move on, regardless of the hypotheticals that have been proposed in this thread, the truth of the matter is we don’t have Bosh but we have the team that we have now (unless a trade happens). We can talk about how Bosh is great at this and how Martin isn’t as great and we can talk about what he may have done for us while ignoring what we would lose. In the end, hes not here so lets move on.
The Bosh saga is over, thank the heavens and likes be excited about this Rockets team that we have now.
free agents
this allows the Rockets to go after Miller who they want and would allow Yao to slowly play back in shape . They could always trade Anderson and someone else for another scorer .
Well I'm really glad you were able to look into your crystal ball for this piece
I know you’re probably trying to comfort the crying fans with mancrushes on Bosh, but seriously—at least give me some numbers or stats to weep over. We had very little chance of gaining the Texas-phobic Bosh in the first place. Morey was just doing due diligence in trying to attract him to Houston.
Im beginning to believe that the Rockets will lose Scola
the Nets are after him and have the $ since it looks like Lebron isn’t going there. I think Scola will be offered 8-9mil/yr. Will the Rox match that if it was a 5 yr/45mil deal?
that is scary,
I like Scola and all, but hes not worth 5 years. Maybe 3 year deal for 10 mil each year, overpay him up front rather than extending it out more than 3 years. Only if he was 3 years younger….
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