Rockets Trade Trevor Ariza To New Orleans, Receive Courtney Lee In Four-Team Deal
by Tom Martin on Aug 11, 2010 12:54 PM CDT
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PrintDid NOT expect to write one of these today.
Marc Spears reports:
Hou,NJ, NO, Indy trade done and trade call taking place now, source tells Y!. Hou gets C Lee, NO gets Ariza, Indy Collison-Posey, NJ Murphy
Hmm. Well... that's interesting.
So, what do we get in Lee? Actually, wait a second: let's get to the nice bonus that comes with making this deal. Take it away, Chad Ford:
For the Rockets, aside from acquiring Lee, the move is largely a salary dump. This summer the Rockets spent a lot of cash signing Luis Scola, Kyle Lowry and Brad Miller to free agent contracts and their payroll ballooned to $81 million. Before the trade, the team was bracing for a $10 million-plus luxury tax hit. The deal would save them $28 million on the life of the contracts and $10 million this season, including luxury tax considerations.
Nice. By the way, immediately upon hearing about this deal and since I have hardly watched any Courtney Lee tape, I asked Ben Q. Rock from OPP one question: Can Courtney Lee defend?
[Stan Van Gundy] called him the best wing defender the Magic had on the 09 Finalist squad. He's good. (I mean, defense is [Van Gundy's] thing. That praise, coming from him, for a rookie? Holy cow)
Lee is of slightly smaller build than Ariza, but he's no downgrade defensively from what it sounds like. We'll have more analysis later. I'll need to watch some tape. In the meantime, here's Lee's player card.
Goodbye, Trevor Ariza. Hello, Courtney Lee!
UPDATE: My thoughts on the deal at SB Nation Houston. I will have more here later on, including a scouting report from Sebastian Pruiti of Nets Are Scorching.
UPDATE 2: Per Jason Friedman:
In talking to Houston's Basketball Personnel department, it's clear the team loves Lee's versatility on the defensive end, believing him to be a valuable weapon to unleash against bigger point guards like Deron Williams. But they also like his offensive potential, feeling as if his ability to play up-tempo one minute and as a floor-spacer off of Yao the next should enable him to seamlessly slide into Rick Adelman's offense. Then, of course, there are the intangibles the Rockets cherish: Lee is a high character player who will be a great fit in the locker room, bringing his detail-oriented approach and winning qualities to a team that places real value on such characteristics.
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Preach to me Tom
when you get a chance I want you to make me a believer. As of this moment, I’m fuming at this trade.
I'm always right, this isn't conjecture, merely statement of fact.
What is there to be upset about?
Lee is just as good a defender and plays backup SG. He can fill in a lot better at backup SF than Ariza can fill in at back up SG. Lee is 6-5, he’s plenty big to fill in at SF.
Lee is basically a better Ariza in my opinion. And honestly, it’s Ariza, he wasn’t anything special
www.TheDreamShake.com Co-Founder and Writer
I don't think anyone really thought Ariza was "special"
But trading a starter for a backup is always going to raise eyebrows. Especially when it just looked like a salary dump. Sure, right now I am saying I don’t like the move. But knowing Morey it will end up being Alston for Lowry part II.
But that isn't really fair to Lee
Just because he’s a backup now doesn’t mean he’s not just as worthy of being a starter as Ariza is.
And remember what Lee was in Orlando, tell me the Rockets wouldn’t rather that than what they are getting out of Ariza
www.TheDreamShake.com Co-Founder and Writer
And by backup now
I do mean on the Rockets
Seriously I LOVE this move for our depth. I have no idea who was going to play the back up 2 effectively before it. It was going to be one of our SF doing it and none of them are really capable of it.
www.TheDreamShake.com Co-Founder and Writer
I don't hate the trade (now)
but I don’t love it as much as you do. I can understand it and I’m fine with it. And I am sure I will come around on it.
If you've
come all the way from hating too “understanding” in like 5 minutes, then I’m sure you’ll “love” it in about…ten :-)
"If I had to pick a center [for an all-time best team], I would take Olajuwon. That leaves out Shaq, Patrick Ewing. It leaves out Wilt Chamberlain. It leaves out a lot of people. And the reason I would take Olajuwon is very simple: he is so versatile because of what he can give you from that position. It's not just his scoring, not just his rebounding or not just his blocked shots. People don't realize he was in the top seven in steals. He always made great decisions on the court. For all facets of the game, I have to give it to him." -Michael Jordan
by ressaliance_00 on Aug 11, 2010 1:52 PM CDT up reply actions
Hmm..
I really like this move, since Lee still has the potential to improve. Plus, if you look at his stats, he’s improved every year in his scoring, which is something Ariza wasn’t consistently capable of doing.
by typhoon.infamous on Aug 11, 2010 5:04 PM CDT up reply actions
cept we are getting older,
we have to win now. can’t wait for players to develop. Yao has a few years left at best. We will have Chucky at center again in a few years. By the time Lee is in his prime, we will be fucked, unless we have addressed our size needs. Also why are we going smaller? Wtf we gona do with a line that is undersized at every position cept for Center?
Lee doesnt quite have as much potential as people seem to think.
He will grow into a nice role player at best. Lock down the D slightly better as well as improve his shooting numbers a touch. Not much more than that.
The one knock ive heard on Lee is that he really doesnt have all that high a ceiling. Ariza arguably had a higher one.
I agree
this really balances out our squad. Players can play their natural positions at all times-baring injuries.
"If I had to pick a center [for an all-time best team], I would take Olajuwon. That leaves out Shaq, Patrick Ewing. It leaves out Wilt Chamberlain. It leaves out a lot of people. And the reason I would take Olajuwon is very simple: he is so versatile because of what he can give you from that position. It's not just his scoring, not just his rebounding or not just his blocked shots. People don't realize he was in the top seven in steals. He always made great decisions on the court. For all facets of the game, I have to give it to him." -Michael Jordan
by ressaliance_00 on Aug 11, 2010 1:49 PM CDT up reply actions
Clarification:
Lee started for Orlando as a ROOKIE, and they went to the FINALS.
Of course, didn’t Rafer start for them in the finals too…? :P
But they had Hedo in contract year,
Lewis, and Dweight playing well. Really can u give credit to Lee for that year? He did make some good shots, I don’t remember his “great” d. But it wasn’t awful thats for sure.
I'm not sure 6-5 is plenty big at SF
When 6-9 is considered prototypical size for SF and 6-4 is considered undersized at SG.
Im lookin at it like this
Maybe this sets up a move in the future, i mean lee is decent and all but i think there has to be somethin more to this
If at first you don't succeed, draft, draft again
I see this as...
salary dump and also they are thinking of moving Patrick Patterson to SF…
I don't see Patterson playing at SF
He is going to be an interior presence for us mostly at the PF position with maybe a little C…
Agreed
I can’t see him ever playing SF. At least not other than for a big team on the court. Though I’m the guy that wanted Landry to play some 3, so maybe!
www.TheDreamShake.com Co-Founder and Writer
meh
Good for our owner’s pockets, that’s for sure. will probably see more PP as a result of this, and I have always like C. Lee’s game.
Nov 03, 2010 NO @ HOU
Nov 03, 2009 LAL @ HOU
coincidence?
I doubt this is just a salary cap dump
as some of us here are saying. If Morey is making this trade it is to better the team, both now and in the future. Les has said all a long that he’s willing to pay the luxury tax, that he believes this year is special, so I’m not inclined to believe this is solely a financial move. I could be wrong, but this team, this club is clearly dedicated to winning.
I can recall many a time that we haven’t understood what Morey was doing (drafting AB, Clutchfans had a meltdown, not saying that we’re Clutchfans or anything…) but it always, and I mean always works out! Let’s let this one play out, Morey always has an ace up his sleeve.
"If I had to pick a center [for an all-time best team], I would take Olajuwon. That leaves out Shaq, Patrick Ewing. It leaves out Wilt Chamberlain. It leaves out a lot of people. And the reason I would take Olajuwon is very simple: he is so versatile because of what he can give you from that position. It's not just his scoring, not just his rebounding or not just his blocked shots. People don't realize he was in the top seven in steals. He always made great decisions on the court. For all facets of the game, I have to give it to him." -Michael Jordan
I'm not sure about that tax statement
I mean, I can posture and saber rattle all I want, it’s called politics. Les may have said that he would be willing to pay it but this trade has salary cap written all over it. Not to mention when you factor in the whole idea of the trade we swapped out a guy with championship pedigree, a starter, lock down defender, and more than worthwhile player to have on a contender for a guy entering his third season as a back up at best, we did it for the money. Year 3 is where players are fully what they will be, if Lee is going to break out, it will be this year, and I hope to God he does. I’m not holding my breath though.
I'm always right, this isn't conjecture, merely statement of fact.
They traded for basically the same player
With a bigger upside AND got salary cap relief, I fail to see a single thing wrong with this deal
www.TheDreamShake.com Co-Founder and Writer
trevor ariza
had so much personality!!! how will they replace his leadership?
I'm with you...
…I think it’s just another example that the genius always has his feelers out looking for any kind of upgrade, be it for the current squad, the future or both(this trade). Trevor Ariza was really disappointing for me, I guess, cus I saw him hitting so many clutch 3s for the Lakers and being a pretty good offensive outlet. Of course he was great on D for us, but all I saw was clumsiness on the offensive shift.
well, to be fair
Our team didn’t have much all star support. I mean we were balanced and had number of ppl that can score good numbers. But in the end there wasn’t anyone that could really take the pressure off of him and let him be a spot up shooter. And to UofOrange, we are not trading the same player. Ariza has shown his capability of hitting big shots for the Lakers in their championship year. he was great role player. Lee is still unproven. But i expect this to be a stepping stone to another bigger trade for iggy or granger. If not then les and morey copped out like a little bitch. I guess its his money tho, so i can’t complain, he is free to do whatever he wants.
Its hard for Lee to prove himself when he’s playing on the league’s worst team.
But I believe Lee did prove himself to be a valuable role player in his rookie season. Honestly, while Ariza did have some good performances, his subpar shooting last season (even after Martin’s arrival) kind of tempers any kind of clutch heroics he’s known for.
"Hip-Thrust!"
They are the same age
So I don’t buy that proving themselves stuff. Ariza hit a few wide open threes. He wasn’t the guy that won that series for them anymore than Lee was the guy that lost the series for the Magic.
www.TheDreamShake.com Co-Founder and Writer
Could you make a case
for some transitive property of quality? Like Lee and Ariza were premier perimeter defenders for their teams, Ariza got the ring, therefore Ariza would be better? I’m not saying that is my stance, just trying to be a pain in the ass.
I'm always right, this isn't conjecture, merely statement of fact.
Nice
But no, I’d say Ariza had the best player on the court on his side and the only player on either team that demanded a double team, routinely by Ariza’s guy. We’ve seen how he shoots when covered even a little bit
www.TheDreamShake.com Co-Founder and Writer
Thing is tho even with great players on your team,
some teams are missing that one player to win it all. Ya know? When ppl say this team is one piece away. Those pierces are like the Robert Horry, and maybe Trevor Ariza. That is how i feel at least. Ariza isn’t a scorer, hes a role play, 4th option on offense at best but gets the job done. hes selfless, and hes a complete ROLE player. Hes one of those that you need on your team once you have ur superstar nucleus. He will knock down the shots in the finals or playoffs. Obviously he won’t create his own shot.
well put...I never was down on Trevor when his shots weren't falling last season
and I feel sorry for him now. Hopefully CP3 can have the steve nash effect on his and make him an all star with NO. He is a good guy and there aren’t any of those out there. Enjoy the crawfish Trevor.
Um incase you forgot they both played in the same finals
and Lee hit many clutch shots throughout the playoffs
Thank god we are past the Rafer Years
this deal is a steal for the rox
We got Ariza when his stock was high, but his overall skill set is what it is. I always thought the Ariza signing was opportunistic — there will always be a market for him, so we grab him when he’s the best guy available at a reasonable price (at the time). Now’s the right time to ditch him too, because the coming CBA is probably going to make everyone tighten their belt — and his contract will look worse.
In my eyes they are comparable players, one’s just MUCH CHEAPER. And we can definitely always swing another trade with Lee if we need to. We just swapped two useable pieces, and kept our options open without really downgrading our talent.
This is a good trade.
Problem with that logic
is making that value come out in an actual trade without bundling too much. The Rockets need a few large contracts for trade flexibility since trading is their MO. Lee will pull something like 2 mil a year. If he bursts out of the gate and blows minds, how many comparable players do you know that we can land for a 2 million dollar contract and a handjob?
I'm always right, this isn't conjecture, merely statement of fact.
He's wouldn't be the main piece...
…but he’s a fantastic pot-sweetener. As in “Ok, ok, we’ll throw in Lee.”
If he busts out, why would we be trading him though?
We desperately need a back up SG. We need a backup SF less. Plus, any trade the Rockets do from here out will involve a good SF. I love this deal more and more as I think about it
www.TheDreamShake.com Co-Founder and Writer
Yup we are on the same page...
"If I had to pick a center [for an all-time best team], I would take Olajuwon. That leaves out Shaq, Patrick Ewing. It leaves out Wilt Chamberlain. It leaves out a lot of people. And the reason I would take Olajuwon is very simple: he is so versatile because of what he can give you from that position. It's not just his scoring, not just his rebounding or not just his blocked shots. People don't realize he was in the top seven in steals. He always made great decisions on the court. For all facets of the game, I have to give it to him." -Michael Jordan
by ressaliance_00 on Aug 11, 2010 1:33 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm not saying we DO trade him...
I’m just saying we CAN. We added another ASSET that is going to be very tradable for the next 3 years. That’s smart business. Keep your options open.
We have an abundance of large expiring contracts
Battier, Jefferies and Yao all come off the books next year. We’ve got the expiring contracts to make the necessary trades next year if we want. Not that I’m expecting to trade Yao next year or anything.
And besides of Lee explodes this year, what’s the problem with paying him 2 mill or whatever it is? Than the issue of his contract and trading becomes moot because we wouldn’t want to trade him.
Or this is always a buy low/sell high thing like the Landry deal…
"If I had to pick a center [for an all-time best team], I would take Olajuwon. That leaves out Shaq, Patrick Ewing. It leaves out Wilt Chamberlain. It leaves out a lot of people. And the reason I would take Olajuwon is very simple: he is so versatile because of what he can give you from that position. It's not just his scoring, not just his rebounding or not just his blocked shots. People don't realize he was in the top seven in steals. He always made great decisions on the court. For all facets of the game, I have to give it to him." -Michael Jordan
by ressaliance_00 on Aug 11, 2010 1:33 PM CDT up reply actions
The large expirings we have
preclude Yao from being in them as I think if Yao shows up decent, he’s not going anywhere. Battier, now back as the starter, I think he sticks in Houston too for the sheer fact that the man is someone you keep on a championship team. As for Jeffries, I look at him as our biggest bargaining chip because Houston will aptly shop him around. Lee’s contract value, if he shows up extremely well, is that if we do look in to trading him, we unfortunately have to take back pennies on the dollar for talent.
The more I keep reading of U of T the more I’m coming down off the ledge on this trade (Please don’t mistake anything I’m saying as dickish or confrontational, I was an Ariza fan, clearly).
I'm always right, this isn't conjecture, merely statement of fact.
+1 on Jeffries as our main trading piece
Depending on how the season goes, he will almost certainly be part of a deal at the deadline — most likely to a top team in the East. He’s a premiere defender, and we clearly don’t need any more of those…but someone will. Maybe someone trying to get past Miami… :)
Unless
We can get Chris Paul (or another star) for Battier’s and Jefferier’s contracts. Then they’re gone. So in the end they’re still bargaining chips, if they stay or not.
"If I had to pick a center [for an all-time best team], I would take Olajuwon. That leaves out Shaq, Patrick Ewing. It leaves out Wilt Chamberlain. It leaves out a lot of people. And the reason I would take Olajuwon is very simple: he is so versatile because of what he can give you from that position. It's not just his scoring, not just his rebounding or not just his blocked shots. People don't realize he was in the top seven in steals. He always made great decisions on the court. For all facets of the game, I have to give it to him." -Michael Jordan
by ressaliance_00 on Aug 11, 2010 1:42 PM CDT up reply actions
I cannot understand this at all for the Hornets
Can they really not get more for a guy that barely allowed a drop off from CP3?
www.TheDreamShake.com Co-Founder and Writer
After talking everything up to CP3
They still needed to do more than simply salary dump, which is what they really did.
www.TheDreamShake.com Co-Founder and Writer
Ariza fills a big position for them.
His talents will mesh much better with Paul than they ever did with Brooks/Martin/Battier.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
I also think it's a large assumption that Darren Collison had that much value just because he played well when Paul was out.
Collison has a lot of talent, and there are a lot of people that believe in him, but it’s not like New Orleans was in a strong bargaining position to trade Collison for a player better than Ariza.
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
Not their decision
in two years…so I guess they are safe till then.
"If I had to pick a center [for an all-time best team], I would take Olajuwon. That leaves out Shaq, Patrick Ewing. It leaves out Wilt Chamberlain. It leaves out a lot of people. And the reason I would take Olajuwon is very simple: he is so versatile because of what he can give you from that position. It's not just his scoring, not just his rebounding or not just his blocked shots. People don't realize he was in the top seven in steals. He always made great decisions on the court. For all facets of the game, I have to give it to him." -Michael Jordan
by ressaliance_00 on Aug 11, 2010 1:53 PM CDT up reply actions
I HATED the Ariza deal at the time
But I did come around on him. Just think this is a situation where Lee is just as good and costs a quarter (this year) the price and a third the price next year, plus I think it’s only a team option.
And frankly I wanted Lee BADLY in the draft, was sad when he didn’t become a Rocket. He’s a player in every aspect of the word. Last year was an abortion of a season in NJ and it wasn’t his fault.
And I try never to worry about people’s emotions in the heat of the moment. Internets, it’s serious business ;-)
www.TheDreamShake.com Co-Founder and Writer
I like the move
brings back Battier to starting and saves us money.
C: Yao / Miller
PF: Scola / Patteson
SF: Battier / Budinger
SG: Martin / Lee
PG: Brooks / Lowery
That is a stacked line up!!!!! Cant wait for the season to start!
I think it can be more like
C: Yao/Miller
PF: Scola/Hill
SF: Battier/Patterson/Budinger
SG: Martin/Lee/Budinger
PG: Brooks/Lowry
I would rather see Patterson at the SF because he’s an opposite player than battier. Battier and Ariza were practically mimics of each other.
But yes it does make us very deep
The way I typed it, it looks like the order of things but what.....
I meant was that Budinger could be the 1st or 2nd off the bench. Interchangeable piece that can give us a shooting burst off the bench. He is definitely no defending SF though……..
So you want him defending 2's?
I never saw Him getting killed defensivly last season. I really think most people see him as a bad defender because he is white.
GO ROCKETS, GO TEXANS, GO ASTROS (EVEN THOUGH THEY SUCK)!!!
He was kind of bad one on one
and tend to miss assignments on help, but he was certainly much better at the end and looked great this summer
Don't worry batman
i get what your saying.
"If I had to pick a center [for an all-time best team], I would take Olajuwon. That leaves out Shaq, Patrick Ewing. It leaves out Wilt Chamberlain. It leaves out a lot of people. And the reason I would take Olajuwon is very simple: he is so versatile because of what he can give you from that position. It's not just his scoring, not just his rebounding or not just his blocked shots. People don't realize he was in the top seven in steals. He always made great decisions on the court. For all facets of the game, I have to give it to him." -Michael Jordan
by ressaliance_00 on Aug 11, 2010 2:10 PM CDT up reply actions
he is actually quite athletic.
I think at U of Az he was recorded to have a vertical leap of 40 inches insh. Steve Franchis in the dunk contest in early 2000s was 40-43 inches. Thats some mad fucking hops for a whitie.
fuck play name spellling,
but meant to say Franchise, this old nickname. so add the E at the end
yea i am aware
I watched some of his highlights from college and he did get way up in the air.
GO ROCKETS, GO TEXANS, GO ASTROS (EVEN THOUGH THEY SUCK)!!!
we had to do it
We had to get rid of someone once we resigned Kyle and Scola otherwise Les would be more hesitant to sign more players down the road cuz of the taxes, and Morey needs that flexibility. And we had 3 legit small forwards and Chase needs more minutes cuz of his excellent production so I guess one of them had to go. I love his defense which we need at the 2 since K-Mart can’t defend shit. Also he’s a better back up than Taylor. Can also shoot from 3 well too.
I did however want to see Ariza for one more year in his natural position and not a focal point of the offense. Oh well.
The Budinger point is right on
The Rockets are really happy with him, and he’s a SF not a SG
www.TheDreamShake.com Co-Founder and Writer
a defensive 2?
Yeah I’m liking this more and more. I don’t know much about Lee but it sounds like he’ll be a good fit.
"If I had to pick a center [for an all-time best team], I would take Olajuwon. That leaves out Shaq, Patrick Ewing. It leaves out Wilt Chamberlain. It leaves out a lot of people. And the reason I would take Olajuwon is very simple: he is so versatile because of what he can give you from that position. It's not just his scoring, not just his rebounding or not just his blocked shots. People don't realize he was in the top seven in steals. He always made great decisions on the court. For all facets of the game, I have to give it to him." -Michael Jordan
by ressaliance_00 on Aug 11, 2010 1:39 PM CDT up reply actions
Experience.
Another reason why this is a good deal:
We just traded a young, but battle-hardened defender with NBA Finals experience for…a young battle-hardened defender with NBA Finals experience. That experience is hard to find.
especially now
since the Heat and Lakers are going to be the only teams acquiring finals experience for the next 3 years or so.
:)
Lee is a good pickup
He has real potential. Losing Ariza isn’t really that much of a hit either. I think this is good, long and short term, for the Rockets
"I’m tired of hearing about money, money, money, money, money. I just want to play the game, drink Pepsi, wear Reebok." ~Shaq
by Max_in_Missouri on Aug 11, 2010 1:43 PM CDT reply actions
always like ariza play, had some flaws yes, but not horrible.
but i cant hate on the trade for Lee, there was a time when he was in orlando i thought “it’d be nice to have that guy”. he has a good shot, will drive to the whole, and has a good nose for the ball. good luck ariza, welcome home lee.
by Doin-It_Since_87' on Aug 11, 2010 1:49 PM CDT reply actions
In thinkin about the deal
and seein some of his tape, lee has game. I think he will be a good addition. One thing this move does is make us HELLA DEEP
If at first you don't succeed, draft, draft again
I'll eat a shitburger on this one
The more minutes go by, the more I like the move. For several reasons. Of course the financial side. Probably going to be able to avoid the luxury tax now for one (which isn’t a big deal to me. It isn’t my money). Never will we have to suffer with Coach Adelman playing Ariza and Battier on the floor at the same time, so that’s a bonus. And also, it gets Shane on the floor more and gives Budinger some minutes.
I will also admit that I called out Lee’s defense before I did any homework on it. My apologies. Like I told Lee on Twitter, this is why I don’t write articles on this stuff until after it settles in or I write horrible knee-jerk reactions posts. I won’t even get into the Rafer for Lowry swap and how bad that made me look…
In Morey I STILL Trust.
I didn't know that you were against the Rafer for Lowry deal
Your writing privileges are revoked ;-)
www.TheDreamShake.com Co-Founder and Writer
Ha Ha!
I wouldn’t say I was against it, my gripe was that I thought they were going to ruin Aaron Brooks because he wasn’t ready. And I thought Lowry was a throw in. That part I will admit to.
Not sure
if this one move needs a whole show. Probably right before media day. Trying desperately to get a press pas…
Talk to Tom, we really need to go ahead and get one for the site
www.TheDreamShake.com Co-Founder and Writer
It's tough, guys.
ClutchFans isn’t even credentialed. I actually have a way to get one, I think. But the only way I could get it would be if I was the one credentialed, unfortunately. If I find a way to get one for the site for ANYONE to use, I will.
The Dream Shake ...on Twitter.
"I think girls are probably just better shooters." - Steve Novak
How do you get credentialed?
We can always say I am a lawyer for TDS and sign a paper =P.
I'm always right, this isn't conjecture, merely statement of fact.
I'm not sure how much Dave has really wanted one
And they are a message board, not really the same thing.
www.TheDreamShake.com Co-Founder and Writer
I've tried talking to Nelson Luis
Which won’t work. I’ve got a couple good connections with the team, so we’ll see. I’ll try.
The Dream Shake ...on Twitter.
"I think girls are probably just better shooters." - Steve Novak
I pretty much gave up on getting one for Battle Red Blog
The Texans org isn’t exactly a fan of us there…
feel free to
throw out my name, i have some leverage with the rocket’s organization.
Couple things
The Rockets decreased the amount of tax they’ll pay, but unless they trade a player they routinely play, the Rockets won’t be under the tax. I think Morey decided to go after players and pay the tax this year. On the other hand, he isn’t delusional and figures decreasing the tax bill won’t hurt him or Les Alexander (who is making a lot of money off the Rockets).
EvilCowtownInc: Screwin Suckaz over since 1985...... On Twitter
No mistakes in the tango, Donna. Not like life. Simple. That's what makes the tango so great. If you make a mistake, and get all tangled up, you just tango on.....
love the trade
creates a small logjam at SG, but better there then SF…let’s battier play…I think another trade is probably coming soon and it might have lee going somewhere else
by EveryHoustonTeamRox! on Aug 11, 2010 2:05 PM CDT reply actions
What logjam at the 2?
We now have one back up and one starting 2.
I'm always right, this isn't conjecture, merely statement of fact.
Ya
We only had 1 true 2 guard on the team before this trade. Taylor doesn’t count
www.TheDreamShake.com Co-Founder and Writer
2 logs
is a log jam in a narrow enough river.
well now that you brought it up...
"If I had to pick a center [for an all-time best team], I would take Olajuwon. That leaves out Shaq, Patrick Ewing. It leaves out Wilt Chamberlain. It leaves out a lot of people. And the reason I would take Olajuwon is very simple: he is so versatile because of what he can give you from that position. It's not just his scoring, not just his rebounding or not just his blocked shots. People don't realize he was in the top seven in steals. He always made great decisions on the court. For all facets of the game, I have to give it to him." -Michael Jordan
by ressaliance_00 on Aug 11, 2010 2:21 PM CDT up reply actions
K-Mart/Bud/Lee/Taylor
we can switch them up of course…
by EveryHoustonTeamRox! on Aug 11, 2010 2:13 PM CDT up reply actions
He played at 2 last year at times
but with this move he can now play his natural position.
"If I had to pick a center [for an all-time best team], I would take Olajuwon. That leaves out Shaq, Patrick Ewing. It leaves out Wilt Chamberlain. It leaves out a lot of people. And the reason I would take Olajuwon is very simple: he is so versatile because of what he can give you from that position. It's not just his scoring, not just his rebounding or not just his blocked shots. People don't realize he was in the top seven in steals. He always made great decisions on the court. For all facets of the game, I have to give it to him." -Michael Jordan
by ressaliance_00 on Aug 11, 2010 2:21 PM CDT up reply actions
Dont quite understand the Lee hate
He is a fine player, just like Ariza is a fine player
here’s a net’s analysis of his first year with an expanded role
http://netsarescorching.com/2010/05/14/year-in-review-courtney-lee/
it’s got some synergy sports analysis of his defense, hopefully some one else with access(Tom?) can provide the same for Ariza for comparison purposes.
Both went through their first year as starter with higher usage, both took a hit % wise, both also saw the limitation of their defensive game(ironically pretty much the same, physical scoring guards), both are better spot up shooters than creating, Lee being a SG more his career actually can handle the ball better than Ariza
I’m a big fan of Ariza since he was in NYC, but Lee is a younger and comparable player that’s cheaper, just because it’s not a trade for Granger/Iggy doesnt mean we have to hate it.
and Lee fit the Morey mold, a smart unselfish player that made his reputation as a specialist(face it most of our players are some sort of specialist), but has other skills. On a team basis, the move is more of a lateral than any sort of significant downgrade
by NVP on Aug 11, 2010 2:07 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
rec'd
"If I had to pick a center [for an all-time best team], I would take Olajuwon. That leaves out Shaq, Patrick Ewing. It leaves out Wilt Chamberlain. It leaves out a lot of people. And the reason I would take Olajuwon is very simple: he is so versatile because of what he can give you from that position. It's not just his scoring, not just his rebounding or not just his blocked shots. People don't realize he was in the top seven in steals. He always made great decisions on the court. For all facets of the game, I have to give it to him." -Michael Jordan
by ressaliance_00 on Aug 11, 2010 2:22 PM CDT up reply actions
If I did my math right...
The Rockets are still approx $2M over the luxury tax for this season, assuming that Mike Harris & A. Johnson are cut.
That's what I'm coming up with as well
What was the exact salary cap number again?
But still, you basically save whatever you save (4 mill) X 2, so it’s a big deal
www.TheDreamShake.com Co-Founder and Writer
And it doesn't seem that Mr. Alexander is absolutely gunning to get under anyway.
I mean, this deal saved him a bunch money wise, was (at worst I’d claim) a push talent wise, and cleared up the roster/rotation a bit so it was worth doing. I don’t see a fire sale to get under though.
by hobroblin187 on Aug 11, 2010 4:53 PM CDT up reply actions
UPDATE
Update to the post.
The Dream Shake ...on Twitter.
"I think girls are probably just better shooters." - Steve Novak
if this is just a salary dump, its the best salary dump ive ever seen.
As much as it sucks to see Ariza go, its perfectly fine. My main concern is that Battier lost a step last year and Ariza was supposed to be Battier’s second coming. If Battier comes back hungry next year, we’ll be fine.
Lee is a great young player, oodles of upside. Only in his third year and has Finals experience, more than we can say about anyone on our team. He played with Dwight Howard, which is a different kind of inside-out game, but the main priority is there: feed the big man. Plus he is a great defender and no one really wanted JT backing up KMart did yall?
Which bring me to my next point, depth. We could literally run 2 completely different squads (which we actually saw last year when the starters were playing like shit) and not really miss a beat. That’s what makes this team what it is.
I’m very excited to see how this pans out over the regular season.
by basketball is cool on Aug 11, 2010 2:09 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
Allow me to rant for one moment
How the hell did Battier lose a step last year? How? Tell me? I didn’t see it. Did you? Why does everyone say that Battier has lost a step. I know he’s getting older, but the defense we saw in the ’09 against Kobe is still alive and well.
It might have appeared the Battier lost a step, but with no Yao to clean up the messes in the paint it’s easy to see how people will think that. But we are educated Rocket’s fans and I should hope we know that Battier’s defense is just fine and will remain so this year. Doesn’t anyone remember how badly our defense (further) suffered after Battier went down those last handful of games? It was atrocious! I’d rather have Battier defending the big name on the court than Ariza any day.
Ok sorry, that was not aimed at you. This is just me taking out my anger on the subject in general. I’ll admit I’m a huge Battier fan, but of course that in no way warps my view of him. Nope…not in the least….
"If I had to pick a center [for an all-time best team], I would take Olajuwon. That leaves out Shaq, Patrick Ewing. It leaves out Wilt Chamberlain. It leaves out a lot of people. And the reason I would take Olajuwon is very simple: he is so versatile because of what he can give you from that position. It's not just his scoring, not just his rebounding or not just his blocked shots. People don't realize he was in the top seven in steals. He always made great decisions on the court. For all facets of the game, I have to give it to him." -Michael Jordan
by ressaliance_00 on Aug 11, 2010 2:36 PM CDT up reply actions
Well, he had a lot of injury issues last year
And they were the “I’m old” kind of injuries. I think that’s what most people are calling a lost step.
www.TheDreamShake.com Co-Founder and Writer
He's seemed to bounce back from them pretty well
but yeah I get that, I guess. It’s going to be a sad day when Battier’s not in a Rocket’s uni.
"If I had to pick a center [for an all-time best team], I would take Olajuwon. That leaves out Shaq, Patrick Ewing. It leaves out Wilt Chamberlain. It leaves out a lot of people. And the reason I would take Olajuwon is very simple: he is so versatile because of what he can give you from that position. It's not just his scoring, not just his rebounding or not just his blocked shots. People don't realize he was in the top seven in steals. He always made great decisions on the court. For all facets of the game, I have to give it to him." -Michael Jordan
by ressaliance_00 on Aug 11, 2010 2:52 PM CDT up reply actions
ok, he might not have "lost a step"
Let’s just say he’s not getting any younger. I love Battier, I own his jersey. But same with Yao, there’s an expiration date. You gotta set yourself up for the future.
by basketball is cool on Aug 11, 2010 5:26 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Michael Jordan's multiple retirements
were a case of squinting real hard to try to determine if that date is a 3, an 8, or a 2.
I'm always right, this isn't conjecture, merely statement of fact.
I'm buying a Battier jersey then...
before he expires.
"If I had to pick a center [for an all-time best team], I would take Olajuwon. That leaves out Shaq, Patrick Ewing. It leaves out Wilt Chamberlain. It leaves out a lot of people. And the reason I would take Olajuwon is very simple: he is so versatile because of what he can give you from that position. It's not just his scoring, not just his rebounding or not just his blocked shots. People don't realize he was in the top seven in steals. He always made great decisions on the court. For all facets of the game, I have to give it to him." -Michael Jordan
by ressaliance_00 on Aug 11, 2010 8:44 PM CDT up reply actions
But yes
I agree with everything you said in your post. The depth in incredible! Is there another team in the league who can do that? Run two entirely different squads?
"If I had to pick a center [for an all-time best team], I would take Olajuwon. That leaves out Shaq, Patrick Ewing. It leaves out Wilt Chamberlain. It leaves out a lot of people. And the reason I would take Olajuwon is very simple: he is so versatile because of what he can give you from that position. It's not just his scoring, not just his rebounding or not just his blocked shots. People don't realize he was in the top seven in steals. He always made great decisions on the court. For all facets of the game, I have to give it to him." -Michael Jordan
by ressaliance_00 on Aug 11, 2010 2:37 PM CDT up reply actions
Still on the ledge.
Not from a basketball perspective. Im sure lee brings as much defense as Ariza.
Not as much offensively.
This is definately not a trade that makes us a better team. It just makes us a cheeper one.
I like Lee. Ive wanted him since orlando. But I really liked ariza too. Ive probably been one of ariza’s biggest defenders.
Good bye ariza. I will miss you.
Btw i dont see Lee going anywhere. And i do think we are done for the summer.
Lee's the better fit
Was Battier really going to fit on the second unit? Nope. Lee does, perfectly.
And, for the record, he’s pretty much better than Ariza.
The Dream Shake ...on Twitter.
"I think girls are probably just better shooters." - Steve Novak
Please do explain how he is better?
Even if he is as good as ariza or even slightly better than ariza on defense.
He isnt Ariza on offense. He is serviceable but wont have half the impact ariza did.
Ariza wasnt a superstar but he was one of the best of the rest. At least as a SF.
Lee is a a bit younger so in the really far future it might be a better.
But after this next year his next contract is going to be alot bigger. Just putting us back in the same situation…
He isnt Ariza on offense.
And that is a bad thing?
"If I had to pick a center [for an all-time best team], I would take Olajuwon. That leaves out Shaq, Patrick Ewing. It leaves out Wilt Chamberlain. It leaves out a lot of people. And the reason I would take Olajuwon is very simple: he is so versatile because of what he can give you from that position. It's not just his scoring, not just his rebounding or not just his blocked shots. People don't realize he was in the top seven in steals. He always made great decisions on the court. For all facets of the game, I have to give it to him." -Michael Jordan
by ressaliance_00 on Aug 11, 2010 2:39 PM CDT up reply actions
Ariza for all his faults wasnt bad on the offensive end.
He could do alot of really nice things. He just tried to do too much.
He wasn't?
I thought he was awful on offensive. There is nothing that Ariza could do on O that Lee can’t.
www.TheDreamShake.com Co-Founder and Writer
Umm
you and I were obviously watching two different Ariza’s last year.
He can’t dribble.
He can’t create.
He can’t shoot anything but the standstill 3, not like that stopped him from shooting just about everything but the standstill 3.
His FT% was abysmal.
His efficiency was abysmal.
And he didn’t know his limits on offense, at least not before he shot us out of more than a few games.
You just kept screaming at your TV, “Don’t shoot the ball, Trevor!”
So yeah, I’d say he was pretty bad offensively. Say what you will about his efficiency going up once Yao’s back, he still would be at most the 4th or 5th option offensively. (Just ask yourself, who do I want talking that open 3? Brooks, Budinger, Martin, Battier or Ariza? Yup, Ariza’s last on my list too.)
"If I had to pick a center [for an all-time best team], I would take Olajuwon. That leaves out Shaq, Patrick Ewing. It leaves out Wilt Chamberlain. It leaves out a lot of people. And the reason I would take Olajuwon is very simple: he is so versatile because of what he can give you from that position. It's not just his scoring, not just his rebounding or not just his blocked shots. People don't realize he was in the top seven in steals. He always made great decisions on the court. For all facets of the game, I have to give it to him." -Michael Jordan
by ressaliance_00 on Aug 11, 2010 2:49 PM CDT up reply actions
haha
thank you! How could I have forgotten! After all Scola has a better 3 point % than Ariza. 1-3 baby! haha
"If I had to pick a center [for an all-time best team], I would take Olajuwon. That leaves out Shaq, Patrick Ewing. It leaves out Wilt Chamberlain. It leaves out a lot of people. And the reason I would take Olajuwon is very simple: he is so versatile because of what he can give you from that position. It's not just his scoring, not just his rebounding or not just his blocked shots. People don't realize he was in the top seven in steals. He always made great decisions on the court. For all facets of the game, I have to give it to him." -Michael Jordan
by ressaliance_00 on Aug 11, 2010 2:55 PM CDT up reply actions
on a pure stats stand point
Lee is the better shooter with less attempts last year(lower usage though)
What are you talking about?
But after this next year his next contract is going to be alot bigger. Just putting us back in the same situation…
His contract ends in 2013. Durrrrr.
He’s also better than Ariza on offense because he doesn’t need a high-chair to support him.
The Dream Shake ...on Twitter.
"I think girls are probably just better shooters." - Steve Novak
Agreed man
I just look at the overall trade that if you’re going to give up Ariza, swing for the fences rather than shuffle the dec for money purposes.
I'm always right, this isn't conjecture, merely statement of fact.
I think that's a big part of it
People want a star player and thought Ariza would go in a package for one.
by Mike Kerns on Aug 11, 2010 2:19 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Def. the only way i saw ariza being shipped out was in a trade for a big time guy.
Ala granger who would then have made ariza superflous.
Budinger's impact
I’ve always liked Lee’s tenacity, Ariza was overpaid after his solid playoff run and could never live up to that contract… what I want to know is how many Rocket fans see Chase as a viable option for SF of the future? He’ll never be a shut-down defender, but he does everything else on the court at a plus level. He is solid.
if Mike Miller has a career
and most of it as starter, no reason Chase wonnt.
Hell JJ Redick has a career
but neither of them are championship lvl pieces.
Tho it could all change, playing with 3 superstars Mike MIller prolli win a few rings before he retires.
To be fair...
MMiller is a baller. He’s been on cruise control the last few years as he’s been dealt from crappy team to crappy team, but that’s mainly just because he’s a nice guy who won’t throw a fit in Memphis or Minny (or DC). But if you watched him play 3-4 years ago, he can ball — he’s an unselfish scorer who can pass, rebound, and he’s one of the best 3-point shooters in the league.
Just had to give him his props. I’d take him.
Anyone saying they wouldn't want Mike Miller is silly
The guy is a heck of a player
www.TheDreamShake.com Co-Founder and Writer
I see Bud as just that
He’s a heck of an offensive player and he came a long way last year on the defensive end, with a long way to go. But he’s working hard at it, which is all you can ask.
www.TheDreamShake.com Co-Founder and Writer
Chase is pretty legit.
He is a terrific spark of the bench. He will be a starter somewhere someday.
Hopefully houston.
Chase had a rough go in college...
with 3 coaches in 3 years… but I’ve always thought that his game was more tailored for the NBA than for college anyway. He is a very heady ballplayer. Makes the right play more often than not, he’s got great instincts.
He also has perspective, which is obvious when you watch him dunk on fools (Odom, Celtics, etc) and rather than beat his chest he sprints back to pick up his man. It’s very refreshing to see a guy who can make people look silly but doesn’t need to tell everyone about it.
Agreed
"Each in turn... volunteered his suggestions, his invaluable suggestions."
Twitter - xiane1
The Dreamshake
crazy mixed up world
first: are we DAMN sure Lee’s D is as good as Ariza’s because we are going to need tons of great permieter play this year to make a run at Miami
second: it really feels like a salary dump for a player thats almost as good but not as good. Unless there is an expensive high ability player trade coming down the road I really don’t know why you bother with this trade.
Lee has a great game…I think even more well rounded than Ariza…more quick to drive, but Ariza won it all with LA and had great D with great steals and 3pt shooting…
There HAS to be another trade morey wants to do to get the cap space otherwise it is seems just like a dump that slightly weakens the team.
If anyone can convince me that lee is as good on D then fine but until then I am not liking this.
BD34, as always we agree so far on this one.
Yes, but not necessarily before the trade deadline.
And I don’t think this has very much to do with the tax. Sure, it’s some to do, but it’s more because if you can get the same basic player at a more need position for 25% of the price you do it every time
www.TheDreamShake.com Co-Founder and Writer
Ariza won it all...
Because he took wide-open threes with some dudes named Kobe Bryant and Pau Gasol stealing all the attention.
The Dream Shake ...on Twitter.
"I think girls are probably just better shooters." - Steve Novak
And he was making them
Ariza is effective when he’s not the first option. No we don’t have Kobe, but he would have had Brooks, Martin, and Yao all commanding attention away from him. I was really looking forward to what he could do this year playing to his more natural role. I do not like this move, because no matter how good Lee’s defense is, unless Battier stays completely healthy all year we’re going to be screwed when it comes to guarding elite 3’s.
And for those people saying we’re just going to get Martin and Patterson minutes at the 3 spot.. please.. don’t make me start drinking three months before the season even starts..
by Superdave532 on Aug 11, 2010 7:04 PM CDT up reply actions
lol i can't imagine martin as 3.
hes too scrawny to guard 2 as it is. It would be isolation plays all day long at the 3 position if martin was guarding it. Not sure if Patterson has enough lateral quickness to guard the 3. The 3 is one of the most athletic positions in the nba nowadays. Got Tashuan, Melo, maybe LBJ, Caron Butler, Josh Howard, Josh Smith maybe. Athletic wing mans is the direction we are heading with speedy pgs, and shittie centers.
well put...I am going to start drinking now
We now NEED iggy for his D on SF’s to help Shane out
Ariza posterized people though
mehmet okur is the guy that stands out. when u do that to a jizz player you dont let him go.
GO ROCKETS, GO TEXANS, GO ASTROS (EVEN THOUGH THEY SUCK)!!!
That dunk
was amazing. Probably my favorite Trevor moment of the season.
"If I had to pick a center [for an all-time best team], I would take Olajuwon. That leaves out Shaq, Patrick Ewing. It leaves out Wilt Chamberlain. It leaves out a lot of people. And the reason I would take Olajuwon is very simple: he is so versatile because of what he can give you from that position. It's not just his scoring, not just his rebounding or not just his blocked shots. People don't realize he was in the top seven in steals. He always made great decisions on the court. For all facets of the game, I have to give it to him." -Michael Jordan
by ressaliance_00 on Aug 11, 2010 2:57 PM CDT up reply actions
Coutney Lee is legit.
On paper it might not look like a good deal, but this guy can play. Anyone who watched the Magic during the Playoffs two seasons ago knows what I’m talking about. He’s a much better offensive player and shooter than Ariza, and about equal in the defense department. Good backup for K-Mart. Never liked the Ariza acquisition to begin with anyway.
Rockets have a very deep team this coming season. All we need is that big Chinese guy to be healthy and K-Mart to start EVERY game :)
Gotta love the local media
which is just now reporting that the Rockets are “close to trading Trevor Ariza.”
I say if this does not pan out
We all go up to Toyota Center with pitch forks and look for Daryl Morey and Les Alexander…..and Jared Jeffries LOL
GO ROCKETS, GO TEXANS, GO ASTROS (EVEN THOUGH THEY SUCK)!!!
One more nice stat.
Lee is an 85% career FT shooter
Ariza is 66%.
by b.radley on Aug 11, 2010 2:33 PM CDT reply actions 3 recs
Free throws wins games, Defense wins championships.
Wreck 'em Tech! Go Rockets!
by Rock Creator on Aug 11, 2010 2:35 PM CDT up reply actions
Lee is an overal better shooter
partially because he;s got a more diverse offensive repertoire
TS%
Lee .525
Ariza .488
eFG by distance
Lee:
Jump .439
Close .590
Dunk .850
Tips .455
Inside .607
Ariza:
Jump .410
Close .459
Dunk .919
Tips .700
Inside .570
That's going to be important for this team too
DM and RA have both stressed that they will try to win games simply by getting the opponents over the foul limit early in the 4th quarter. But the second part of this is making the free throws, now we won’t have a liability out on the floor during crunch time.
"If I had to pick a center [for an all-time best team], I would take Olajuwon. That leaves out Shaq, Patrick Ewing. It leaves out Wilt Chamberlain. It leaves out a lot of people. And the reason I would take Olajuwon is very simple: he is so versatile because of what he can give you from that position. It's not just his scoring, not just his rebounding or not just his blocked shots. People don't realize he was in the top seven in steals. He always made great decisions on the court. For all facets of the game, I have to give it to him." -Michael Jordan
by ressaliance_00 on Aug 11, 2010 3:03 PM CDT up reply actions
lee has only been in the league for 2 years.
Ariza came in raw as hell after only 1 year in college, and then played for a shittie team int he new york knicks. he was drafted based on potential, so his game wasn’t as polished as Lees. So obviously his FT would be shittie.
This is what is going to get to me did we just make NO better
chris paul and aaron brooks stalemate
kevin martin on Ariza
battier on peja
scola and west
yao and okafor
i think we just made No pretty good.
Oh sure, they're going to love a season of Ariza at SG, we certainly did.
"Each in turn... volunteered his suggestions, his invaluable suggestions."
Twitter - xiane1
The Dreamshake
not like he is going to bring it up the court.
even if that does peja come off bench now and they keep marcus thorton
Sure. I have no dislike of Ariza, but I see NO as having less salary, not much else.
Collison was a ton to give up.
"Each in turn... volunteered his suggestions, his invaluable suggestions."
Twitter - xiane1
The Dreamshake
Collison was a bigger lose
than Ariza was a bigger gain for NO, imo.
"If I had to pick a center [for an all-time best team], I would take Olajuwon. That leaves out Shaq, Patrick Ewing. It leaves out Wilt Chamberlain. It leaves out a lot of people. And the reason I would take Olajuwon is very simple: he is so versatile because of what he can give you from that position. It's not just his scoring, not just his rebounding or not just his blocked shots. People don't realize he was in the top seven in steals. He always made great decisions on the court. For all facets of the game, I have to give it to him." -Michael Jordan
by ressaliance_00 on Aug 11, 2010 3:05 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah a guy that was injuried for half the season last year
Who’s going to back him up if he goes down exactly?
"If I had to pick a center [for an all-time best team], I would take Olajuwon. That leaves out Shaq, Patrick Ewing. It leaves out Wilt Chamberlain. It leaves out a lot of people. And the reason I would take Olajuwon is very simple: he is so versatile because of what he can give you from that position. It's not just his scoring, not just his rebounding or not just his blocked shots. People don't realize he was in the top seven in steals. He always made great decisions on the court. For all facets of the game, I have to give it to him." -Michael Jordan
by ressaliance_00 on Aug 11, 2010 6:12 PM CDT up reply actions
ur paying him all this money, and Collison shown hes due for a pay day.
What do you do? Its like our situation the following season with Brooks. Hes due for pay day, what do we do? Bite teh bullet and give him 9+ mil a year next year, or trade him for best option available.
nah Marcus Throton proved himself
a capable SG last year
Peja is pretty one dimensional
and it wont be the first time he got benched by NO
Peja won't even prolli even play the start of the season.
That dude breaks an ankle from a shoot out practice. I imagine some injury at the start of the season, sore back or something as usual.
Wow - what a fantastic trade
Rockets are almost out of the Lux tax.
We move a SF for a SG. We need a real, legit SG with defensive ability. We had none. Now we have one. Lee is a for real NBA SG with (per Stan VanGundy) really good D. Now if Kevin Martin has some sort of owie, as seems common, we roll right on.
This shows us that the Rockets are high on Budinger, and based on last season and summer league, they should be.
This is the “2nd” unit Lowry, Lee, Budinger, Patterson, Hill. Better put your track shoes on, because that lineup is going to run tired first teams and weak second units out of the gym.
"Each in turn... volunteered his suggestions, his invaluable suggestions."
Twitter - xiane1
The Dreamshake
I really don't get how using a SVG quote is praise
This is the guy who most likely fucked his team’s chances at a title up because he injected Jameer Nelson fresh off of surgery for Alston who had the Orlando team running incredibly smoothly.
I'm always right, this isn't conjecture, merely statement of fact.
That has nothing to do
with his knowledge of defense.
"If I had to pick a center [for an all-time best team], I would take Olajuwon. That leaves out Shaq, Patrick Ewing. It leaves out Wilt Chamberlain. It leaves out a lot of people. And the reason I would take Olajuwon is very simple: he is so versatile because of what he can give you from that position. It's not just his scoring, not just his rebounding or not just his blocked shots. People don't realize he was in the top seven in steals. He always made great decisions on the court. For all facets of the game, I have to give it to him." -Michael Jordan
by ressaliance_00 on Aug 11, 2010 3:06 PM CDT up reply actions
So should we consult Goldman Sachs
for economic advice? I mean, they’re in the general business of finances, so just because they bankrupted in their venture they probably are still absolutely credible, right?
I'm always right, this isn't conjecture, merely statement of fact.
You're an idiot.
This isn’t the “general business of basketball”, he is the coach, he knows the talent levels of the players he has coached.
Glad to see you're so level headed
Point being, if he’s supposed to be a source I’m relying on, I want good results from it. He botched the title that Orlando could have won if he would have worked Nelson into a reserve role. You mention talent levels, sure, stack a team up with talent, should work out. Show me them Dallas rings.
I'm always right, this isn't conjecture, merely statement of fact.
If you don't know
then you need to start watching basketball.
I'm always right, this isn't conjecture, merely statement of fact.
Actually ya
Don’t forget that they made asstons of money even given said bankruptcy. So, ya, I’d take advice on how to make money from them
www.TheDreamShake.com Co-Founder and Writer
Point being
it took a bail out and them shafting a lot of people after helping to drag the entire US economy down (Along with sub prime mortgaging, shitty lending, and general greed from US banks but still, they were a big cog in the machine that did it).
I'm always right, this isn't conjecture, merely statement of fact.
GS makes money by cheating ppl.
Most of their revenues is from trading derivatives. No way they make that much money without inside knowledge and other illegal mechanisms.
I didn't say they were good people
I said they make money
www.TheDreamShake.com Co-Founder and Writer
Goldman Sachs is doing just fine.
Some of their clients, maybe not, but GS? They are pretty much the only superpower left on Wall Street.
"Each in turn... volunteered his suggestions, his invaluable suggestions."
Twitter - xiane1
The Dreamshake
I think given how that team was running
with him manning the point, you don’t inject someone who wasn’t with the team for quite some time and by all rightful means shouldn’t have been on the court. That’s just me though.
I'm always right, this isn't conjecture, merely statement of fact.
In that
just because SVG Looks like Ron Jeremy I refuse to wrap my lips around his love shaft when he praises a player?
I'm always right, this isn't conjecture, merely statement of fact.
of course this is all media shit,
if your a coach and get interviewed about your player or explayer, unless they fucked you like bosh and lebron, are you gona bad mouth them? Your gona say the best thing possible, its the way shit works in the real world. What does anyone have to gain from pointing out a player’s flaws or negatives unless your on TV trying to get airtime and start drama (Charles Barkley).
that finals magic offense was atrocious
Magic’s plan was jack up 3 s and watch Dwight dunk, and if necessary a “Point Forward” Hedo heave it up play
and when they realize Rafe couldnt hit an open 3 to save his life, they went to Nelson
Rafer
Alston was NOT going to take the Magic to the promise land. I guarantee that.
Really?
because before he got bumped out of the starting line up they were pretty dangerous with him at the helm. As much as we like to whip him, I’m still of the mindset that he wasn’t a horrible player as a point guard (Key, point guard, not having to knock down shots, he was a distributor and halfway decent defender).
I'm always right, this isn't conjecture, merely statement of fact.
He was ok.
I’m just saying that I have a hard time believing that Rafer Alston’s play was the key to the Magic being the NBA champions. I never thought he sucked either, but I never thought was that good or a key component for any team.
again
I’d just say check out how Orlando was fairing with him, then when they swapped him out, they got wrecked. He’s not a star player but he’s a smart passer and could lead a team.
I'm always right, this isn't conjecture, merely statement of fact.
He couldnt lead a team.
But he could def be good on a team which had other stars to make his life easier.
I can tell you that most Magic fans don't agree with you
He was serviceable at best, he turned the ball over Rafer style all the time.
www.TheDreamShake.com Co-Founder and Writer
I'm just going based off what I watched
and what I watched was Rafer leading the team respectably at the point just to have to turn duties over to Nelson and watch their shot collapse. Hard to argue that Nelson was actually ready for the position given recent shoulder surgery and everything.
I'm always right, this isn't conjecture, merely statement of fact.
Nelson was the heart of that team
Before he went down, it was the right move. It didn’t work, but seriously, Rafer was the guy you wanted to trust instead?
I know that Rafer was in better health at the time, but 80% of Nelson was better than 100% of Rafer
www.TheDreamShake.com Co-Founder and Writer
Watching Nelson that series
I feel like 80% is gracious. He was rushed back from that surgery when it wasn’t necessary. I got the same feeling when Roy rushed back from surgery for the Blazers this post season.
I'm always right, this isn't conjecture, merely statement of fact.
This trade is a head scratcher for me
Taking away Ariza and adding Lee doesn’t make us better, but a little worse. I don’t really understand why so many people are happy the Rockets are closer to being under the luxury tax, it’s not our money. Getting rid of the contract might help in future years, but that’s about it.
Lux tax does affect fans.
Because it greatly affects our ability to spend or make moves at the deadline. We aren’t the Lakers, who are so far into the tax that they could effectively ALSO pay for the OKC roster.
Lee can really play the 2 role, something Ariza wasn’t entirely comfortable in. If you are running your “SG” position with just Speed Racer, you are taking a big risk. Now that risk is covered. I personally think Jermaine Taylor is an NBA player, but we KNOW C Lee is an NBA player, with the ability to both D up and score at the 2.
I always liked Ariza, but I think Lee fits the team we have now better. Mainly because its looking harder and harder to keep C Budinger on the bench. The team saw a way to 1) see more Chase, 2) Backup Martin 3) Save some money
"Each in turn... volunteered his suggestions, his invaluable suggestions."
Twitter - xiane1
The Dreamshake
There are plenty of guys out there like Lee
I’m not totally against trading Ariza, but not for so little. Ariza is becoming a shutdown defender and makes huge plays. Lee is a backup that shoots 3’s. Just doesn’t make sense, it makes dollars.
by danielcp0303 on Aug 11, 2010 2:56 PM CDT up reply actions
Name 5 lockdown 2's.
And better yet, put their salaries next to their names too.
He's not a lockdown 2
I really don’t care what Stan Van Gundy says
by danielcp0303 on Aug 11, 2010 3:02 PM CDT up reply actions
ok, put please don't get mad if I take his opinion over yours on the matter
"Each in turn... volunteered his suggestions, his invaluable suggestions."
Twitter - xiane1
The Dreamshake
whoa whoa
Back-up that shoots 3s? didnt Trevor use to to that, and to be fair Courtney was a starter that shot 3s most of his career.
on the part of Defense, Ariza is a far better help defender, but one on one, Lee is no slouch, on Isolation sets, Lee allowed .72 Points Per Possession on 33.8% shooting while forcing a turnover 15.2% of the time
Except that Trevor is big time and is now a definate starter
On our team Lee will be a backup that shoots 3’s. Ariza is a far better defender and makes huge plays. I have no problem using Ariza for a trade, but not this one.
by danielcp0303 on Aug 11, 2010 3:06 PM CDT up reply actions
see I'm less incline too say Ariza is a far better defender
Until I really get a chance to crunch all the numbers, cause Far better is a lofty description without true basis. despite what my eye sees and brain remembers, I’d like to see hard evidence because my memories and opinions lie. Now if you have access to mysynergy sports package, or dug up numbers some where, it would be awesome. Ariza is taller and longer arms, so he’ll block more shot and steal more, but Lee is no slouch on the steals department either
While sure it was certainly possible to include Ariza is a bigger trade, dont you think we had redundant pieces in JJ Battier and Ariza for them to work in the same trade? with that said, You cant be mad just because Morey didnt gamble for a star a give up everything, it’s not the time yet for a star, and no signs point to Granger or Iggy really being that available besides rumors(Turner looks like crap, and Indiana has all kind of expiring contracts to make plays), Melo and Paul are more interested in a super team than a real team
and to say Lee didnt make big plays for the Magic as a rookie during their run is totally unfair, we just tend to remember the victor
congrats Lee defended East Coast 2s.
Dwade was the only person he had to worry about.
You, sir, are an idiot.
The Dream Shake ...on Twitter.
"I think girls are probably just better shooters." - Steve Novak
Ya I'm really wrong about this
Remember all of those huge plays Lee made in the Finals? Oh wait, that was Ariza
by danielcp0303 on Aug 11, 2010 3:12 PM CDT up reply actions
why didn't
the laker’s hold onto him? because he is an expendable roll player. get over him.
because they upgraded with Artest
and it worked
by danielcp0303 on Aug 11, 2010 3:16 PM CDT up reply actions
and you could say the same thing about Lee
why didn’t the Magic and Nets hold on to him?
by danielcp0303 on Aug 11, 2010 3:17 PM CDT up reply actions
The Nets are stupid and the Magic got Carter
Seems pretty reasonable to me
www.TheDreamShake.com Co-Founder and Writer
I wouldn't call it an upgrade.
2009 NBA Champions
2010 NBA Champions
They would
anytime you can repeat, your moves worked
by danielcp0303 on Aug 11, 2010 3:20 PM CDT up reply actions
trevor ariza and ron artest are a push
and how can you sit here and say RON RON is an upgrade while defending Trevor by saying he made SO MANY SICK GAME CHANGING PLAYS IN THE FINALS OMGOSH
man
Steve Novak could have made those “plays.” It’s called: Wait for Kobe to draw three defenders, make wide open shot. SO TALENTED.
The Dream Shake ...on Twitter.
"I think girls are probably just better shooters." - Steve Novak
Except Ariza actually did make those plays
good try though
by danielcp0303 on Aug 11, 2010 3:17 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm not following...
He stood on a line and took an open shot. What’s so special about that, other than your misguided opinion that ‘making plays’ is a talent within itself.
The Dream Shake ...on Twitter.
"I think girls are probably just better shooters." - Steve Novak
He made big plays
by being a lockdown defender, making shots in the finals, and winning games at the end. I think you’re misguided
by danielcp0303 on Aug 11, 2010 3:19 PM CDT up reply actions
you're confusing him with Kobe Bryant.
I’m done with this. You’re making Jalen Rose’s argument for him.
The Dream Shake ...on Twitter.
"I think girls are probably just better shooters." - Steve Novak
And too many of you guys hear Morey made a deal
and automatically jump up and down.
by danielcp0303 on Aug 11, 2010 3:22 PM CDT up reply actions
Because
he has given us sooo much reason to doubt his decision making. Yes I see.
"If I had to pick a center [for an all-time best team], I would take Olajuwon. That leaves out Shaq, Patrick Ewing. It leaves out Wilt Chamberlain. It leaves out a lot of people. And the reason I would take Olajuwon is very simple: he is so versatile because of what he can give you from that position. It's not just his scoring, not just his rebounding or not just his blocked shots. People don't realize he was in the top seven in steals. He always made great decisions on the court. For all facets of the game, I have to give it to him." -Michael Jordan
by ressaliance_00 on Aug 11, 2010 3:23 PM CDT up reply actions
Uh
I definitely researched this before deciding to brown nose any further. But nice try.
The Dream Shake ...on Twitter.
"I think girls are probably just better shooters." - Steve Novak
by the way
Where were all these “special plays” that Trevor could make last season? I sure as hell didn’t see any.
The Dream Shake ...on Twitter.
"I think girls are probably just better shooters." - Steve Novak
precisely.
The Dream Shake ...on Twitter.
"I think girls are probably just better shooters." - Steve Novak
how many players actually make an open 3 in the finals?
Why were Robert Horrys 3s so important? He just made open 3s from Kobe, Tim Duncan after all. Bad argument Tom.
I don't recall them being game winners
So not the same thing at all
www.TheDreamShake.com Co-Founder and Writer
well just saying,
knocking down open shots is very important in the nba. Not many players can do it consistently still.
The guy did it for one playoffs
And I don’t even recall it being for more than the finals. Lots of guys get hot for a series
I’m not trying to knock his accomplishment. But it was just that, an accomplishment, it doesn’t make him that player daily
www.TheDreamShake.com Co-Founder and Writer
true, but who knows?
Its not easy to drop those shots. And he did play well the entire playoffs. Also again how many players are there that can say they did what he did? I mean honestly how many times have we watched a team fall short cuz the team couldn’t find one person to step up?
Don't forget Hakeem.
This is The Dream Shake, after all…
A couple of things
1. Lee’s better on offense. Sorry, it’s true. Did you ever see Ariza use his athletic ability other than when there was a perfect line to the basket? Lee’s better at the FT and a better shooter in general. And he won’t turn the ball over as much. Low usage player, too.
2. He’s a great defender. Ariza might be slightly better. OH, WELL IN THAT CASE WE’RE FUCKED.
The Dream Shake ...on Twitter.
"I think girls are probably just better shooters." - Steve Novak
Tom
I will give you Lee’s offensive abilities are better than Trevor’s but with Scola, Yao, Martin and Brooks its not like we have a problem with offense…what we need is D.
I have no idea what Lee is compared to Ariza but he needs to be at least as good to make it worth it. Can lee guard Lebron or Wade while Battier takes the other? I just don’t know.
Unless we are freeing up space for another deal I just don’t see this is more than a salary dump.
That's not the point
1. You don’t plan a team just to play one different team that you’ll see twice all season. That’s stupid.
2. Lee is nearly as good a defender as Ariza. He’s not as lengthy, and that’s it.
3. Lee and Battier won’t play together. This is a good thing.
The Dream Shake ...on Twitter.
"I think girls are probably just better shooters." - Steve Novak
I think you're underestimating
the importance of length for a defender. Obviously positioning, timing and probably a half dozen other factors are important too, but you can’t teach Lee to be three inches taller. He will not be able to guard taller threes like Melo, Granger, Durant, and yes Lebron too. You didn’t really respond to John P’s argument either. We don’t need more offense, and while he may be a better defender at the 2 spot than Martin is, we all better hope Battier was just hurt and didn’t lose a step last year or we’re going to get killed defensively at the 3.
by Superdave532 on Aug 11, 2010 7:19 PM CDT up reply actions
Battier was just hurt
he’s gonna beast it up this year. Write it down.
"If I had to pick a center [for an all-time best team], I would take Olajuwon. That leaves out Shaq, Patrick Ewing. It leaves out Wilt Chamberlain. It leaves out a lot of people. And the reason I would take Olajuwon is very simple: he is so versatile because of what he can give you from that position. It's not just his scoring, not just his rebounding or not just his blocked shots. People don't realize he was in the top seven in steals. He always made great decisions on the court. For all facets of the game, I have to give it to him." -Michael Jordan
by ressaliance_00 on Aug 11, 2010 8:23 PM CDT up reply actions
Don't you know?
One injury and to a Houston fanbase you’re prone.
I'm always right, this isn't conjecture, merely statement of fact.
win, win and win
"If I had to pick a center [for an all-time best team], I would take Olajuwon. That leaves out Shaq, Patrick Ewing. It leaves out Wilt Chamberlain. It leaves out a lot of people. And the reason I would take Olajuwon is very simple: he is so versatile because of what he can give you from that position. It's not just his scoring, not just his rebounding or not just his blocked shots. People don't realize he was in the top seven in steals. He always made great decisions on the court. For all facets of the game, I have to give it to him." -Michael Jordan
by ressaliance_00 on Aug 11, 2010 3:07 PM CDT up reply actions
I have a lot of thoughts on this trade that most people probably won't bother with reading
and I’m fine with that, haha.
1. This deal, I think, will make sense in relation to a larger deal. Remember, teams are interested in the Jeffries contract.
Ariza is most definitely mad, but that’s how things go, + watch him be better alongside a pure setup man.
I don’t think its about the cap so much as the future flexibility gained from getting out of a 5 year deal
I think Morey makes this move for one of two reasons: either
1. Morey is betting he can trade in Lee, Battier and Jeffries for an elite player, namely Andre Iguodala, the only wing in the league that is considerably elite and most likely available. Battier is of more value to teams looking to start over because of his expiring deal, plus he can be somewhat of a defensive mentor to young players, even if it’s only for part of a season. In this scenario we would have to either play jermaine taylor or bring in a 3rd pg (and let Brooks AND lowry play the 2 a little). I’m not too put off by either scenario, considering Budinger can play the 2 as well.
-or-
2. Morey sees something that normals don’t, namely, that Battier is only valuable as a starter (which would’ve hurt team chemistry; I imagine Ariza would have not been cool with being benched). He’s the definition of glue guy, can get hot from outside, gives us future flexibility considering his expiring deal, and is a shot blocker you have to account for against 1s, 2s and 3s. If we stick with this roster, our bench is Lowry, Lee, Budinger, Hill / Patterson / Jeffries and Miller / Hayes. That is 100% a bench you have to respect on the break, from outside and athletically. It’s a versatile and tough group, which is why I’m not bugged by this. I don’t think Battier would’ve fit well with our bench unit, making Ariza the odd-man-out
Added bonus: this deal should increase the durability of KM12, considering he has a respectable backup now.
Wafer . . . again. (Marv Albert, HOU v. CLE Feb 2009)
-one of the FEW at Toyota Center who has the Wafer jersey
Agree with all that.
Not sure a big deal is coming, but you never know. I think this is a roster than can contend for a title, with the usual terrible Houston caveats.
"Each in turn... volunteered his suggestions, his invaluable suggestions."
Twitter - xiane1
The Dreamshake
Good stuff
I think that it’s more of option 2 in this case. But only time will tell.
"If I had to pick a center [for an all-time best team], I would take Olajuwon. That leaves out Shaq, Patrick Ewing. It leaves out Wilt Chamberlain. It leaves out a lot of people. And the reason I would take Olajuwon is very simple: he is so versatile because of what he can give you from that position. It's not just his scoring, not just his rebounding or not just his blocked shots. People don't realize he was in the top seven in steals. He always made great decisions on the court. For all facets of the game, I have to give it to him." -Michael Jordan
by ressaliance_00 on Aug 11, 2010 3:12 PM CDT up reply actions
NBA 2k11 and NBA Elite
I’m really only pissed because now we have no good dunkers on video games. Ariza has been our only showtime dunker in NBA 2k10.
by Battier4President on Aug 11, 2010 2:57 PM CDT reply actions
Maybe they'll bump up Budingers dunk rating
by danielcp0303 on Aug 11, 2010 2:58 PM CDT up reply actions
he's a better dunker than Ariza
"If I had to pick a center [for an all-time best team], I would take Olajuwon. That leaves out Shaq, Patrick Ewing. It leaves out Wilt Chamberlain. It leaves out a lot of people. And the reason I would take Olajuwon is very simple: he is so versatile because of what he can give you from that position. It's not just his scoring, not just his rebounding or not just his blocked shots. People don't realize he was in the top seven in steals. He always made great decisions on the court. For all facets of the game, I have to give it to him." -Michael Jordan
by ressaliance_00 on Aug 11, 2010 3:09 PM CDT up reply actions
yes
hell yes
"If I had to pick a center [for an all-time best team], I would take Olajuwon. That leaves out Shaq, Patrick Ewing. It leaves out Wilt Chamberlain. It leaves out a lot of people. And the reason I would take Olajuwon is very simple: he is so versatile because of what he can give you from that position. It's not just his scoring, not just his rebounding or not just his blocked shots. People don't realize he was in the top seven in steals. He always made great decisions on the court. For all facets of the game, I have to give it to him." -Michael Jordan
by ressaliance_00 on Aug 11, 2010 3:15 PM CDT up reply actions
That is all.
http://www.nba.com/rockets/video/2010/07/21/scolalowry072110wmv-1377638/index.html
"If I had to pick a center [for an all-time best team], I would take Olajuwon. That leaves out Shaq, Patrick Ewing. It leaves out Wilt Chamberlain. It leaves out a lot of people. And the reason I would take Olajuwon is very simple: he is so versatile because of what he can give you from that position. It's not just his scoring, not just his rebounding or not just his blocked shots. People don't realize he was in the top seven in steals. He always made great decisions on the court. For all facets of the game, I have to give it to him." -Michael Jordan
by ressaliance_00 on Aug 11, 2010 3:21 PM CDT up reply actions
hahhaha, that is true. He was our most athletic player.
Have a slow 7-6 Yao dunk in your game, and get blocked by a pg.
C-bud and Hill
are both more athletic than Ariza. As is Taylor. Ariza’s “athleticism” is way over stated imo.
"If I had to pick a center [for an all-time best team], I would take Olajuwon. That leaves out Shaq, Patrick Ewing. It leaves out Wilt Chamberlain. It leaves out a lot of people. And the reason I would take Olajuwon is very simple: he is so versatile because of what he can give you from that position. It's not just his scoring, not just his rebounding or not just his blocked shots. People don't realize he was in the top seven in steals. He always made great decisions on the court. For all facets of the game, I have to give it to him." -Michael Jordan
by ressaliance_00 on Aug 11, 2010 6:10 PM CDT up reply actions
So now
Who will lead the team in steals?
GO ROCKETS, GO TEXANS, GO ASTROS (EVEN THOUGH THEY SUCK)!!!
nice
post of the thread. rec’d
"If I had to pick a center [for an all-time best team], I would take Olajuwon. That leaves out Shaq, Patrick Ewing. It leaves out Wilt Chamberlain. It leaves out a lot of people. And the reason I would take Olajuwon is very simple: he is so versatile because of what he can give you from that position. It's not just his scoring, not just his rebounding or not just his blocked shots. People don't realize he was in the top seven in steals. He always made great decisions on the court. For all facets of the game, I have to give it to him." -Michael Jordan
by ressaliance_00 on Aug 11, 2010 3:09 PM CDT up reply actions
who gives a shit about steals
they happen like once or twice per game with a guy. In like 60 possessions. Lee averaged 1.3 in lower minutes, btw.
The Dream Shake ...on Twitter.
"I think girls are probably just better shooters." - Steve Novak
You do know steals are turnovers for the other team right?
by danielcp0303 on Aug 11, 2010 3:11 PM CDT up reply actions
Teams turn the ball over all the time without a steal taking place
www.TheDreamShake.com Co-Founder and Writer
anyone hearing possible rumors
of a follow up trade…
by EveryHoustonTeamRox! on Aug 11, 2010 3:14 PM CDT reply actions
yea
Brian Cook to Hou for cheesecake
GO ROCKETS, GO TEXANS, GO ASTROS (EVEN THOUGH THEY SUCK)!!!
by batman713 on Aug 11, 2010 3:16 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
BLASPHEMY!
Cheesecake makes pecan pie it’s bitch
www.TheDreamShake.com Co-Founder and Writer
by UofTOrange on Aug 11, 2010 3:26 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
T-Mac's favorite cake..
is cheesecake.
Tear.
no funny..ok maybe a little
Cheesecake to Pecan Pie is like comparing current Shaq to Dream in his prime
Funniest thing i’ve heard u say bats
by Mellowman on Aug 11, 2010 7:52 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
shocking
At first, I was kind of pissed. Then I started to think about it:
1) Lee’s a better three-point shooter.
2) Ariza’s defense, while great, can be replaced (and perhaps was with this trade)
3) Fewer turnovers, even if Ariza were to return to form
) Saving money is always good
On the other hand:
1) We get worse at rebounding, something we struggled with last year (should be improved by Yao’s return, but still necessary)
2) I really liked Ariza
Also, does this mean that Shane goes back to the starting lineup?
rebounding definitely become a concern
but we did add a lot more length at the front court(that 7-5 guy too)
best midget rebounder in the leauge!
and I’m pretty sure that can be proven statistically.
"If I had to pick a center [for an all-time best team], I would take Olajuwon. That leaves out Shaq, Patrick Ewing. It leaves out Wilt Chamberlain. It leaves out a lot of people. And the reason I would take Olajuwon is very simple: he is so versatile because of what he can give you from that position. It's not just his scoring, not just his rebounding or not just his blocked shots. People don't realize he was in the top seven in steals. He always made great decisions on the court. For all facets of the game, I have to give it to him." -Michael Jordan
by ressaliance_00 on Aug 11, 2010 3:32 PM CDT up reply actions
chris paul is roughly equivalent in percentages
Paul’s better on defense. Lowry’s better on offense.
ok I can see that.
"If I had to pick a center [for an all-time best team], I would take Olajuwon. That leaves out Shaq, Patrick Ewing. It leaves out Wilt Chamberlain. It leaves out a lot of people. And the reason I would take Olajuwon is very simple: he is so versatile because of what he can give you from that position. It's not just his scoring, not just his rebounding or not just his blocked shots. People don't realize he was in the top seven in steals. He always made great decisions on the court. For all facets of the game, I have to give it to him." -Michael Jordan
by ressaliance_00 on Aug 11, 2010 3:38 PM CDT up reply actions
it means the Rockets
can host up to SIX birthday parties for their players!
WOOHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Just means
The Rockets can now take back 6 million in extra salary on a trade in the future
www.TheDreamShake.com Co-Founder and Writer
it means you get 6 more million of room
to maneuver in a trade(my 6 million janitor for your 12 million star? deal with the trade exception)
Uh fellows,
You cannot combine a TPE w/another contract or exception. You can use it to trade for another player’s contract that doesn’t go more than $100,000 over the TPE. You can also accept a smaller contract and then use the remainder again on another contract.
And if Morey is as smart as we believe he used the Landry TPE to take Lee,meaning the Ariza TPE is actually up tp $6,890,000.
In other words any player that has a salary of $6,890,000 or less can be traded to the Rockets all by himself.(Basically,any player on a MLE type deal could be traded to the Rockets for the lower of the 2012 Firsts and salary relief-as an example.)
Don't see that happening
We simply don’t need another SG, we have a damn good one already. And Iggy just isn’t enough of an upgrade in my opinion, if one at all over KMart
www.TheDreamShake.com Co-Founder and Writer
Iggy coul play SF
It’s perfectly feasible. That said, I don’t see another move coming until the trade deadline.
The Dream Shake ...on Twitter.
"I think girls are probably just better shooters." - Steve Novak
iggy is a SF
trade Battier, Jefferies, trade exception for Iggy and our SF is then Iggy with Bud as backup
No he's not
He’s a SG, or at least he plays that with Philly.
If he can really play the 3, which I’m skeptical of, then I’m all for it.
That said, it’s a trade deadline deal the Rockets will try and squeeze a team during.
www.TheDreamShake.com Co-Founder and Writer
lol
Fair enough, you’re right, he’s 6’6, it’s not like he’s a 6’2 shooting guard.
www.TheDreamShake.com Co-Founder and Writer
Yup.
The Dream Shake ...on Twitter.
"I think girls are probably just better shooters." - Steve Novak
so then we are agreed that Iggy and Martin can play fine at the SF and SG positions respecitvely..
good…I knew I was right…or at least really really hoped so
Iggy started more at SF than SG last yr
Kinda supprised me when I read that on a Philly site talking about their team and this coming yr.
Now this, this is good
"If I had to pick a center [for an all-time best team], I would take Olajuwon. That leaves out Shaq, Patrick Ewing. It leaves out Wilt Chamberlain. It leaves out a lot of people. And the reason I would take Olajuwon is very simple: he is so versatile because of what he can give you from that position. It's not just his scoring, not just his rebounding or not just his blocked shots. People don't realize he was in the top seven in steals. He always made great decisions on the court. For all facets of the game, I have to give it to him." -Michael Jordan
by ressaliance_00 on Aug 11, 2010 3:27 PM CDT up reply actions
Thats actually pretty good.
Probably a good trade for the team.
Still not happy about losing ariza.
OK...
If Lee’s D is as good as Ariza…or the player we get with teh 6mill trade exception has equal or better D than Ariza than this is a steal and I am on board
strategery
so now we have Jefferies expiring K for 7 Mill and Battier’s also for 7 Mill and a 6 mill trade exception…not to mention draft picks etc…
not bad….
We are the ONLY team that Denver can smartly trade with
If they get dumb and trade Carmelo
www.TheDreamShake.com Co-Founder and Writer
Its not dumb
if he doesnt sign that extension he wants to go to new york
If at first you don't succeed, draft, draft again
Comet strikes the arena
competitive balance has been restored.
I'm always right, this isn't conjecture, merely statement of fact.
this seems too far fetched at this point to worry about
Paul is not getting traded to NYC before 2013 when his K runs out as NYC has nothing to trade for him except Amare. Also, we will see if Melo signs with NYC before then. It wouldn’t suprise me but at this point lets worry about Miami, LA, OKC, Portland and the Celtics this year.
Well look what happened with Miami,
and look at whos influencing the NBA today, LBJ with LMNR and Wes Wesley. Another loaded superstar team is possible, specially in NY. Melos wife is in NY and NY fits Melo, CP3 has lbj whispering in his ears about a superstar team all day long. I don’t see how this won’t be possible given the CBA doesn’t change too much.
Funniest part of all of this: I'm actually in my hotel room in Newark, NJ right now
Don’t head back to Houston until tomorrow morning
www.TheDreamShake.com Co-Founder and Writer
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHA
The Dream Shake ...on Twitter.
"I think girls are probably just better shooters." - Steve Novak
(sorry, had to)
I’m sort of a dick.
The Dream Shake ...on Twitter.
"I think girls are probably just better shooters." - Steve Novak
I'm still in Oregon.
My internet access is about to turn into a pumpkin again. But I’ll be back to heat and humidity next week. I’m not sure that’s a great trade for bandwidth – its 78 here.
"Each in turn... volunteered his suggestions, his invaluable suggestions."
Twitter - xiane1
The Dreamshake
I STARTED THIS SITE
YOU WILL LISTEN TO EVERYTHING I HAVE TO SAY!!!!!!!!!!!!
;-)
www.TheDreamShake.com Co-Founder and Writer
haha
"If I had to pick a center [for an all-time best team], I would take Olajuwon. That leaves out Shaq, Patrick Ewing. It leaves out Wilt Chamberlain. It leaves out a lot of people. And the reason I would take Olajuwon is very simple: he is so versatile because of what he can give you from that position. It's not just his scoring, not just his rebounding or not just his blocked shots. People don't realize he was in the top seven in steals. He always made great decisions on the court. For all facets of the game, I have to give it to him." -Michael Jordan
by ressaliance_00 on Aug 11, 2010 3:39 PM CDT up reply actions
More like summer hiatus ending for lots of TDS.
With the exception of Tom, who rocked the journalism all summer long.
"Each in turn... volunteered his suggestions, his invaluable suggestions."
Twitter - xiane1
The Dreamshake
I have nothing else to do.
/cries
The Dream Shake ...on Twitter.
"I think girls are probably just better shooters." - Steve Novak
No seriously, I was impressed.
Been meaning to tell you that.
"Each in turn... volunteered his suggestions, his invaluable suggestions."
Twitter - xiane1
The Dreamshake
Pretty good, thanks.
"Each in turn... volunteered his suggestions, his invaluable suggestions."
Twitter - xiane1
The Dreamshake
I've heard of a place close to that that lots of interesting stuff to do.
It’s called, I think, New York City.
Any chance you can leave Newark and go there?
"Each in turn... volunteered his suggestions, his invaluable suggestions."
Twitter - xiane1
The Dreamshake
Debating that now.
Flight is at 5:30 am tomorrow though.
Might go to the Red Bulls vs Galaxy game or could go all the way to Queens if I can figure that out for the Mets game
www.TheDreamShake.com Co-Founder and Writer
That would be cool.
I just like to wander around Manhattan.
And with that…bandwidth ends.
Bye all for now.
"Each in turn... volunteered his suggestions, his invaluable suggestions."
Twitter - xiane1
The Dreamshake
I haven't seen Lee play
Everything I’m reading is encouraging, I have to see how he develops and plays with the team before I can really judge. I thought Ariza would benefit from the addition of Yao, but I guess wen will never know…Welcome to the Rockets Lee…
I kind of grew attached to Ariza
Not as attached as I was to Landry, but still.
We play NO really early at home (November 3rd), I wonder what kind of reception he’s gonna get when he comes back.
I'd go with the regular applause and possibly a standing O
and STD sounds kind of harsh for a beloved player
i like it so far...
i kind of followed Lee for fantasy bball purposes, and i think his defensive production is not much of a drop off from Ariza, if any at all…he’s younger, cheaper and can back up KMartin when he misses his obligatory 15ish games…also, he can handle the basketball like an NBA player should be able to and has good shooting %s.
but what would make me love this trade, is that it sets up the Rockets to swap some expirings and spare parts/picks for Iguodala. that move, would put us over the proverbial top, assuming health for the season.
i think iggy...
is the most likely to be moved so if there was a move, i’d put the chances at:
iggy: 60%
granger: 25%
melo: 5%
something out of left field that nobody cept Morey thought of: 10%
Why rate Granger trading so high?
They just made this deal to continue to build around him and Hibbert? Assuming he’s going to get traded at all this season, to me, is insane. Melo most likely takes the extension because he’ll opt for guaranteed money with a lockout most likely next season he wants to at least be guaranteed a good chunk of change once he comes back from a year off.
Iggy, Doug Collins is high on him in Philly we just lost a defensive player, got a defensive SG, but don’t you want a backup defensive player kicking around? It would take Battier and Jeffries to make salaries match unless they’d take Jeffries and a trade exception. The hitch being on that is you have to wait until the deadline and if Collins likes Iggy well enough, he’s not going anywhere.
I'm always right, this isn't conjecture, merely statement of fact.
to be honest...
i didn’t really put much thought into the ppl after Iggy, just tried to make it allll add up to 100% :D
but yeah, right after i posted, the pacers arent going to move granger now that they picked up a great PG of the future to run with him and Hibbert, and Melo’s just as unlikely…so really, it’s Iggy or bust. so it’s more like IF there’s a move, it’s 85% Iggy, 5% for Melo/Granger and then 10% for TMac.
Battier and Jeffries for Iggy…i think about it this way. wouldn’t u rather have a near-star player in his prime that plays great help D that can finish than having “a backup defensive player kicking around”. that is essentially what Lee would be relegated to, and what Chuck Hayes does best.
iggy is pretty expensive too.
He could end up being a toxic contract for the next few years. And not an superstar material to carry the team to a championship.
Really rooting for the Knicks and Nuggets....
to REALLY SUCK this year!!!! I want Melo on our team!!!
My girl works
at IAH airport and saw Ariza right after the season ended and he said he was going to be traded. I knew Ariza or Battier would be moved, because whoever the backup would be he would make to much being a backup. I dont like how we helped out NO, and know Ariza will want to shine against us and the Lakers. NO by trading Collison and improving they showed they are committed to Paul.With Chris Paul, Ariza will play well, and get alot of easy baskets. If Ariza would of proved last year he could be productive at the two he would not of been traded, and possibly no trade for Martin. I know Battier can play the three well when healthy, but was Ariza was inconsistent, and struggled at times when guarding two’s. Besides a hook, Battier struggles to create his offense, and with Lee we have a good defender with much better offense. And if Martin gets hurt again we have someone with experience to fill in for him. Will JT be in a trade possibly with Jeffries, because I do not see him getting any minutes.
by since86rocketsfan on Aug 11, 2010 4:51 PM CDT reply actions
Take a look at this, for those who haven't seen it.
The Dream Shake ...on Twitter.
"I think girls are probably just better shooters." - Steve Novak
Sorry, here's the link
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BEwf9uj8d0I
The Dream Shake ...on Twitter.
"I think girls are probably just better shooters." - Steve Novak
Iggy, Melo and Granger
As BD34 and lfe159 say above…stop heaving wet dreams about Granger. Collison with Granger is what they are building on….this is a waste to spend more time on it.
Melo is NOT coming to houston. He has one of three options:
1) sign an extension with Denver, most likely, for max money before the new CBA
2) no sign a free agent to go play with Amare in NYC and form another superteam-thingy…
the potential silver lining is if NYC sucks so much then maybe even that wouldn’t be attractive to Melo. Basically only Amare would be dumb enough to pin his hopes on a bad team with a horrible coach and an owner who willingly brought Isiah Thomas back. What idiots. Thomas MUST have some blackmail over Dolan to force him to bring him back. This makes zero sense otherwise.
3) he gets traded for a 1 year stint, this coming season, and the team who traded away good assets for him just hopes and crosses their fingers that he resigns with him.
I guess we could get him for the trade exception (do these things expire?) and Jefferies and Battier’s expiring K’s. Maybe that is worth it. But that is completely gutting our perimiter D.
basically I think it is iggy or bust….or some sleepy deal that is not in the ether yet that only GMs or some GMs know
I'm sorry but you are mistaken when you say Melo is not coming to Houston.
One of my friends’ friend has ties to Melo and said that he was considering Houston in 2011. Tom also said that he heard something like this. If anything else, Melo’s cousin lives in Houston. I’m not saying that Melo is coming, but I’m saying that you should not cross him off at all.
"You got to believe in yourself. Hell, I believe I'm the best-looking guy in the world and I might be right."- Charles Barkley
by bone31crusher on Aug 11, 2010 4:56 PM CDT up reply actions
wishful thinking
it may or may not happen.
Everyone thought that LeDouche’s friendship with JayZ would help the nets recuit him, everyone thought the big NYC market would bring him in etc… Counsins, shmusins. Most people hate some of their family….that is not a good enough argument to plan your roster around a trade that may happen only for one year.
That being said for Battier and Jefferies expiring K’s and the trade exception, and we get to resign Battier after they pay him off…that would be worth it even for one year. I just don’t want to trade our youth (Hill, Patterson, Bud, draft picks) for one year of Melo and then he is off to play with pretty people
I'm just saying don't write him off.
Melo hasn’t said shit about where he wants to go anyway.
"You got to believe in yourself. Hell, I believe I'm the best-looking guy in the world and I might be right."- Charles Barkley
by bone31crusher on Aug 11, 2010 5:08 PM CDT up reply actions
To all of you Courtney Lee haters:
This guy right now is better than Ariza. He’s at the same level defensively, he’s more efficient, and he can actually finish around the rim. The main reasons for doing this trade (besides Lee being a better player):
1. Cash- We are under the luxury tax now.
2. Potentially getting ready to make a blockbuster move later on in the year. Saving this much money means to me that we are going to either go after Iggy at the deadline(or any other time), or go after Melo in FA.
3. Ariza has a ceiling.
In his career his 3pt % is abysmal.
He cannot finish around the rim.
He cannot dribble to save his life.
He he terribly inefficient.
Stop whining about this trade. This was a great move, especially with the 6 million trade exception. I loved Ariza and I feel bad for him, but this is a business, and we upgraded our present roster and future roster.
"You got to believe in yourself. Hell, I believe I'm the best-looking guy in the world and I might be right."- Charles Barkley
mmm...not so fast
1) do we know his D is as good? I don’t…but I am perfectly willing to accept him if his D is better. Stop focusing on the offense. We have TONS of O, we need D. D wins close games, D wins championships. Arguing that his O is better is a non-starter. If we had kept Ariza he wouldn’t be needed for O anyway, we would want him for lockdown D. We can’t depend totally on Battier…and we have to lock down both LeDouch and Wade.
2)Cash and flexibility to do future deals is fine and dandy but I am only talking about what is in front of me. That is just the Ariza for Lee trade. and we only really needed Ariza for D and for 3pt shooting anyway at this poitn with Martin Brooks and Yao all togther.
3) we are not “wining” about the trade, we are just skeptical and talking about it. I have always liked Lee (particuarly on 2K bball) but I do’t want to trade good D only for cap relief.
Granted we are preparing for a blockbuster trade…maybe. If so the trade exception and if the D is not lost then this is genius…but we don’t know that yet and until we do all we can look at is this trade.
Love, the Winer
by John P on Aug 11, 2010 4:59 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Didn't mean to call you guys whiners, but this guy is legit.
Like Tom said in the post, Van Gundy called Lee his best defender on the finals team, as a rookie, which means he is a legit defender. D wins championships, but it never hurts to upgrade one of positions with more O. Lee is probably just as good at D as Ariza is, where Lee is a better offensive player than Ariza; you see my point? I rec your reply for the creative LeDouche comment.
"You got to believe in yourself. Hell, I believe I'm the best-looking guy in the world and I might be right."- Charles Barkley
by bone31crusher on Aug 11, 2010 5:08 PM CDT up reply actions
Still not taking Van Gundy seriously
How many rings has he brought? Orlando has folded like a lawn chair every time Ron Jeremy has had to either strategize, make a player shift, or faced stiff competition. They steamrolled through the playoffs this year til they found some actual competition, then got walloped. Two years ago if they would have kept Alston at the helm they would have probably had a title, but no, he felt it was smarter to put Nelson in who was hurt and so far out of the flow it was a laughable coaching decision to legitimately expect it to work.
I'm always right, this isn't conjecture, merely statement of fact.
Van Gundy is a great defensive coach though,
and to say a rookie was their best defender on a team that went to the finals is a damn good recommendation. We can use Lee as a weapon to guard Deron Williams, Chauncey Billups, and all the other big PGs. Lee shot over 40% when he played with Dwight Howard, so I expect similar numbers when he is going to play with Yao. He fits our second team perfectly also. Lowry is a run and gun guy and so is Lee. This guy is the perfect fit for us, being capable of playing on either our first or second team.
"You got to believe in yourself. Hell, I believe I'm the best-looking guy in the world and I might be right."- Charles Barkley
by bone31crusher on Aug 11, 2010 5:30 PM CDT up reply actions
I've never looked at SVG as a defensive coach
I guess to me he has always been overshadowed by his brother’s coaching style (Choke them out on defense, pray to God you can score enough on offense). I just look at Orlando’s failures to clinch a title to be more or less related to coaching decisions, which, as I’m thinking about it, were offensive. You’ve given me something to think about. Thanks.
I'm always right, this isn't conjecture, merely statement of fact.
I also blame howards inability to score on offense.
After all these years he still hasn’t developed a paint game? for fuck sake, his ft still has 0 form of a shot.
Come on, please stop with this line of talk
SVG is a damn good coach that has coached damn good teams. He didn’t fail in Miami, he had it stolen from him by Riley. He didn’t fail in Orlando either, they outperformed their record in the playoffs and lost to a better team. There is nothing wrong with that. He is absolutely a top 10 coach in the NBA.
www.TheDreamShake.com Co-Founder and Writer
I'm sorry
I just fail to see him as a great coach when his decisions in game are questionable and his team hasn’t been able to perform as well as it should against some of the higher caliber competition out there. Orlando is a damn good team and there’s no excuse for them not to have come away with a title a couple years back.
I'm always right, this isn't conjecture, merely statement of fact.
well to be fair,
we all acknowledge Greg Papavich to be a premier coach, but even he fails to make the Western Conference Finals every year with that roster.
yea, but...
He HAS delivered (SVG did get screwed over in miami) and their inability to get to the WCF aren’t due to bad coaching.
I'm always right, this isn't conjecture, merely statement of fact.
well SVG had 1 year in Miami
without Shaq. Then comes to Magics. Look at that roster man, like you said before who plays D? Carter was never a motivated player, Lewis is like Odom in where u got wasted talent, Howard for some reason just can’t be taught offense (Hell even andrew bynum with no knees has more offense than Howard), JJ Reddick is their most consistent player last playoffs of all ppl. Doesn’t really spell out Championship caliber team.
I still feel
as though the year Orlando lost to LA it was a bad coaching call to lose Alston who the team had developed good continuity under for a hastily returned Nelson who threw the team out of whack.
Then again I’m also referencing a different team than the one you cited, and I agree whole heartedly, that roster isn’t going to cut it.
I'm always right, this isn't conjecture, merely statement of fact.