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Around SBN: News And Other Updates Leading Up To Pats-Giants

Is Houston Really The Deepest Team in The League?

After Wednesdays trade of Trevor Ariza for Courtney Lee, one thing I have been hearing a lot is about just how deep this Rockets team is. And I really have no argument to be made against that statement. In fact, they were already deep before the trade. But this trade puts them two deep (or more) at every position on the roster.

Looking over this roster, it would appear that the plan is to beat teams with your depth and bench. With no one knowing how Yao will play upon his return from a year off, this team has no bonafide superstar. Hell, they don't even have an All-Star (no matter how many of us think Aaron Brooks was ripped off last year). But what they do have is very good and talented players on every spot on the roster this year. Seriously, every year since I can remember being a Rockets fan there has always been one or two guys that I was always quite the critic of and I was pretty rough on. But after the departures of Trevor Ariza and David Andersen, there isn't one guy on this roster I have a problem with. But that is just my personal opinion.

With that said, let's take a look at every position and just how deep it really is.

AFTER THE JUMP

 

Star-divide

Point Guard - Aaron Brooks & Kyle Lowry

When you have a speedster starting who is eating alive some of the bigger and more physical (and sometimes old. Cough, cough, Derek Fisher, cough) point guards, they're usually worn out by the time his backup comes in. And said backup, Kyle Lowry, is such a change of pace type of player than Brooks that it tends to keep teams out of rhythm. We saw it last year how the pace would change, but be incredibly effective when Lowry entered the game. And a full year (hopefully) of an inside presence that commands a double team should help Aaron Brooks shoot even better from three this season with all the open looks he'll get. There have been rumblings of the team wanting to add a third point guard to the roster, but unless an injury occurs I wouldn't expect him to be a factor over these two.

Shooting Guard - Kevin Martin, Courtney Lee & Jermaine Taylor

Probably the biggest critic of the Courtney Lee acquisition was Jermaine Taylor. JT had a terrific summer league and looked as if he would finally force his way onto the floor this season for Houston. But with Kevin Martin playing the lions share of the minutes at the two and Lee likely getting the rest, it's hard to see where Taylor fits in. Because while he has improved his game a great deal, it's hard to imagine him rising above either of those guys on Coach Adelman's depth chart.

But as far as the guys who will play, Kevin Martin has to be the most underrated player on this team. Yes, he has had a serious injury history and even I have criticized him for it. But I'm not ready to label him injury prone just yet (but it's close). But regardless, when he is on the floor he produces. Just like with Aaron Brooks, having Yao possibly pulling an extra defender away leaves a lot of open shots and ability to slash to the basket for Martin. I'm expecting quite a big season from him. And I think we've been over what Courtney Lee brings to the team enough the past couple of days, so there is nothing more I could add there.

Small Forward - Shane Battier & Chase Budinger

One of the biggest reasons I liked the Ariza trade was because it allowed Shane to slide back into the starting lineup. It also keeps Coach Adelman from ever having Ariza and Battier on the floor at the same time anymore, which made me want to rip my hair out sometimes. I know a lot of people say Shane has lost a step defensively and he is declining, which may be true. But until Chase Budinger learns to play solid enough defense the starting spot at the three is Shane's to lose. As far as Bud goes, the team showed a tremendous amount of confidence in the second year man by trading Ariza. Which I love. Some of the most exciting moments from last year were made by Chase and any opportunity to get him some more minutes on the floor is a good move in my opinion.

Power Forward - Luis Scola, Jordan Hill, Chuck Hayes, Jared Jeffries & Patrick Patterson

Here is the position that will probably give Coach Adelman the biggest fit in trying to figure out how to distribute minutes. Obviously Scola is your starter, and rightfully so. How he stepped it up after Carl Landry was traded last year solidified that. And with the payday he just got, there is no way he loses that spot for his entire tenure here, however long that is. Jordan Hill showed flashes last year of being the real steal in Daryl Morey's fleecing of Donnie Walsh. The guy has probably the highest ceiling of anyone at this position on the team. But I am still in the camp that thinks trying to play him at Center would just be setting him up to fail. I'd like to see him get the backup minutes to Scola, but he has serious competition and he'll have to earn it. Chuck Hayes, while doing a masterful job in stepping up last season will likely go back to being a specialist on defense this year. Or stepping in when someone gets in foul trouble early. I'd be shocked to see Jeffries even get on the floor this year unless the team is in a pinch. He is a good defensive option and doesn't suck to have as your fourth or fifth guy at the position. But I simply view him as a trade asset with his large expiring contract likely being moved by the deadline. He is versatile enough to play and guard small forward's, so I could see him stepping in at the three if needed before he gets playing time at the four. Then you have rookie Patrick Patterson who may get the treatment that Carl Landry once did where he will just have to sit and wait for his opportunity. Then, like Carl did, he has to take full advantage of it. Some have talked about him playing the three, but the team has said time and again that they drafted him to play power forward and he will play power forward. So I wouldn't hold my breath on him sliding over this year. Wow, this position is deep. Perhaps too deep. But, as the Celtics showed last year, you can never have enough size on the roster. So I think this is a good problem to have.

By the way, I fully expect Mike Harris and Alexander Johnson to be let go after training camp. So I didn't factor either of them in here.

Center - Yao Ming & Brad Miller

There is nothing I can add about Yao Ming that hasn't already been said. Of course we all hope he returns to form and stays on the floor, but by now we have to have all learned to be cautiously optimistic. Do I think it's impossible for him to stay on the floor all season? Of course not. In fact, by now the basketball gods should have mercy on us. I have just learned not to expect it. Which is why the signing of Brad Miller was so important. He can play a significant role in the quest to reduce Yao's minutes this season, he knows the playbook inside and out and he can get physical with the best of them. I think this may end up being one of the biggest moves of the summer by Daryl Morey in bringing in Brad.

So there you have it. A pretty ridiculous amount of depth. When your second wave off the bench (Lowry, Lee, Budinger, Hill/Patterson, Miller) is good enough to start for lesser teams, well you have to be considered one of if not the deepest team in the league. Orlando and Boston also have very deep teams, so it is obviously debatable. But Houston HAS to be in the discussion. Especially when you consider that they may be the deepest team in the league when it comes to trade assets as well. Just for good measure, let's take a quick look.

Trade Assets

  • The right to swap 1st's with New York in 2011 NBA Draft
  • The rights to New York's 1st pick overall in the 2012 NBA Draft
  • $6.3 Million Trade Exception from the Trevor Ariza trade
  • Expiring Contracts of Jared Jeffries and Shane Battier
  • Young talent
  • If need be, Houston has their first overall pick in the 2012 NBA Draft to throw in as well

That's the kind of trade package that nets you a superstar. It still remains to be seen if one will become available by the trade deadline this season, but I think it is a safe bet that one will. Teams that are proclaiming a player untouchable right now (like a Danny Granger or Carmelo Anthony) may become available at the deadline if a team bombs the first half of the year or realize they won't be able to retain him after the year ends.

This could only make arguably the NBA's deepest team in the league even deeper. And launch them from a "team no one wants to play in the first round" to a legitimate title contender. Regardless of what Jeff Van Gundy says.

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How about Expiring Contracts as well as Trade Assets

and not only are they expiring… they are from solid players too.

by Texas08 on Aug 13, 2010 11:41 AM CDT reply actions  

Not only that expiring contracts

on 1 useful player and 1 semi-useful player.

"I am from one of the top 15 cities in the world. Buffalo, New York." - TrentEdwardsHoF2018

by Artest4Prez on Aug 13, 2010 11:51 AM CDT up reply actions  

Three straight draft picks

You can’t trade consecutive draft picks and not have a First. But the Rockets have 2 Firsts in 2012,so they could trade the 2011,one of the 2012s AND the 2013.

I wouldn’t count out Jeffries so fast. Adelman played him a lot over Hill at end of season. While Jeffries has zero offensive game,I can easily see Adelman using him as a quick big to go against the tweener 3/4s like Odom. While having Miller,Hill,development of Patterson should see Jeffries anchored to bench,Jeffries is the kind of knows his role-makes no mistake vet a coach ends up putting on the floor far more than we would think.

by Tisbee on Aug 13, 2010 8:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

If Lowry or Aaron gets hurt

I expect Lee to move to the backup PG and Taylor to the backup SG

by .Bonzo on Aug 13, 2010 1:02 PM CDT reply actions  

jeffries

move him to the SF spot behind BUD…looks better

by EveryHoustonTeamRox! on Aug 13, 2010 1:05 PM CDT reply actions  

for the record

Yao’s contract is also an expiring contract. Just sayin’.

by grungedave on Aug 13, 2010 1:29 PM CDT reply actions  

It would be hard to find a taker.

His expiring contract is massive, but he is unpredictable with his injuries.

"You got to believe in yourself. Hell, I believe I'm the best-looking guy in the world and I might be right."- Charles Barkley

by bone31crusher on Aug 13, 2010 1:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

Bonecrusher

So? McGrady’s was even more massive last year and he was in arguably worse shape. It really isn’t about the player to a desperate team. It’s about the contract only.

by Mike Kerns on Aug 13, 2010 1:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

took landry with him though

and no looming Lebron Wade party at the horizon

by NVP on Aug 13, 2010 2:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

That isn't the only reason

teams look to shed payroll though.

I guess it really doesn’t matter. They’re not trading Yao anyways.

by Mike Kerns on Aug 13, 2010 2:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

I was reading somewhere that GSW will make a play for Yao next year.

Assuming the usual.

"Each in turn... volunteered his suggestions, his invaluable suggestions."

Twitter - xiane1
The Dreamshake

by Xiane on Aug 14, 2010 12:22 AM CDT up reply actions  

ah they just signed Jermey Lin,

maybe they are gona try to monopolize Chinese players.

by AK1111 on Aug 16, 2010 5:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

It's a strategy I guess.

A better strategy might be “try to win basketball games, consider playing D occasionally”. Nothing against Lin, who looked pretty good in summer league.

"Each in turn... volunteered his suggestions, his invaluable suggestions."

Twitter - xiane1
The Dreamshake

by Xiane on Aug 16, 2010 10:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

If Yao stay's in Houston

assuming he doesn’t get seriously injured and retires, he’ll probably take a pay cut next year right? I mean it’s not like he’s in any position to hold out against the Rockets because there’s probably no one else in the league who’s going to give him a huge contract with his injury history and age.

So that’s just more salary on the books the Rockets can use to acquire a player.

"If I had to pick a center [for an all-time best team], I would take Olajuwon. That leaves out Shaq, Patrick Ewing. It leaves out Wilt Chamberlain. It leaves out a lot of people. And the reason I would take Olajuwon is very simple: he is so versatile because of what he can give you from that position. It's not just his scoring, not just his rebounding or not just his blocked shots. People don't realize he was in the top seven in steals. He always made great decisions on the court. For all facets of the game, I have to give it to him." -Michael Jordan

by ressaliance_00 on Aug 13, 2010 1:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

I wouldn't be suprised if Yao agrees to, within reason, some sort of deal that may lower his pay day to bring in another great player or two

maybe I am just reading it into his personailty but I think at that point he may just want to win a championship and may be more open to lesser fixed salary than normal to bring in a big gun. Can you have incentive based contracts in the NBA. Les should pay them all a bigger bonus and less salary to make the conference and then NBA finals…

by John P on Aug 13, 2010 2:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

I fully expect Bud to step it up big time this year.

He seems like the type of guy to step up when given more responsiblilty. The man can do anything, he just needs a little swager, which I think will come now as he is the primary scorer at his position.

Patterson, too, has a lot of eyes on him. Backing up Scola is an important job, even though the guy never gets hurt.

If Bud and Patt fulfill our expectations as x-factors this season, 50+ wins easy.

And whats up with this offseason business? Start the season already! Can’t wait to see me some shangai shakes, bud/lee throwdowns, AB raining threes, Argentinian Slayer whirling dirbish, speeding racers, and of course, batt-man swats (or charges…whatever he chooses damit!!!)

by Batt-man on Aug 13, 2010 1:40 PM CDT reply actions  

I don't think 50 wins is going to be easy for anyone.

Not saying I don’t like our team, I do, a lot. But the Western Conference? Dear God. The closest thing I can think of like it is the Champions League in Europe.

"Each in turn... volunteered his suggestions, his invaluable suggestions."

Twitter - xiane1
The Dreamshake

by Xiane on Aug 14, 2010 12:26 AM CDT up reply actions  

I still look at the Western Conference as the stronger one

but hard to win 50 games? I’m not entirely sold on. Our bottom feeders are getting better, we avoid some of the toughest challenges the full 4 times (3 instead of 4 for the likes of the Lakers and such), we handled the Spurs and Mavs pretty well without Yao last year, we get Yao back along with an improved roster this year, and we still play the Eastern teams twice. There’s still only about 4-5 Eastern teams tops that are worth worrying about.

In the West, Phoenix took a hit from prominence, we dealt with OKC well for quite some time regardless of how good they’ve become, GS, Minny, Sac, Clips, Grizz, Hornets, and the likes aren’t going to be tough, we can bang around with Portland and split, LA will be a bitch, and other than that those teams not mentioned will essentially be winnable but contested. I think 50 games won’t be much of a problem for a playoff team.

I'm always right, this isn't conjecture, merely statement of fact.

by BD34 on Aug 14, 2010 7:17 AM CDT up reply actions  

I am pretty big on Chase Budinger

So my opinion may be a little biased, but when you compare production per minute, and not per game, you will see that Budinger stacked up well against Trevor Ariza offensively. The best thing for him will be to have Yao playing well, because if he is, then Chase will have to worry less about players driving to the basket for fear of having to shoot over a 7’6" center. In case you are wondering, here are the per minute numbers.

           PPM RPM AsPM TOPM FG% FT% 3PT%
Ariza .408 .153 .104 .060 .394 .649 .334
Bud .443 .149 .060 .030 .441 .770 .369

Love the move and the Rockets off-season in general. Hope to see Budinger on the floor more often. Go Rockets!!

by nsalt on Aug 15, 2010 5:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

I too expect great things from Bud and am a huge fan

…but I would rather Bud learn some D from the Jedi Master Battier and not depend on Yao (or honestly Miller and Hill) to clog up the lane if or when a 1/2/3 drives past Bud. At this point Ariza is the better player for sure, as he contributes all over the court, where as Bud at this point is still mostly offense.

But I hope Bud posterizes Bosh or LeDouche this year…just for the fun of it.

by John P on Aug 17, 2010 12:04 AM CDT up reply actions  

But, as the Celtics showed last year, you can never have enough size on the roster.

Correction. this year too. Shaq and Jermaine? WTF

The BANHAMMER delivers the real justice
That's just turrible

by joshsm07 on Aug 13, 2010 5:59 PM CDT reply actions  

Why have one fat washed up ONeil when you can have two?

"Each in turn... volunteered his suggestions, his invaluable suggestions."

Twitter - xiane1
The Dreamshake

by Xiane on Aug 13, 2010 6:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

One advantage of having so many good players is that you never know who’s gonna be hot on any given night. Remember Bud scoring 6 3-pointers vs Boston? Or Scola dropping 44 vs New Jersey? Lowry’s monster games? We have 5-6 players who can go ballistic any night which not many teams have.

Reliz Feliz!

by RocketsAstros on Aug 13, 2010 7:18 PM CDT reply actions  

I like your sig.

But I can’t really talk about the Astros – doctors orders.

"Each in turn... volunteered his suggestions, his invaluable suggestions."

Twitter - xiane1
The Dreamshake

by Xiane on Aug 13, 2010 7:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

It just quotes Solomon from the Chron and Morey saying that the deal might help the Rockets land a big fish

if that fish should be available.

"Each in turn... volunteered his suggestions, his invaluable suggestions."

Twitter - xiane1
The Dreamshake

by Xiane on Aug 13, 2010 8:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

This was touched on in another thread

like Xiane pointed out, it’s from Solomon and let’s face it, this isn’t news to anyone. The Rockets have towed the “We’re after a star” line for quite some time now. That’s like starting a rumor that “Inquisitiveman is looking for a higher paying job.” Aren’t we always on the lookout for better payment?

I'm always right, this isn't conjecture, merely statement of fact.

by BD34 on Aug 13, 2010 8:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

I dunno if melo fits ouf culture tbh.

Hes pretty hood. We are pretty white business class organization.

by AK1111 on Aug 16, 2010 5:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

if by culture you mean we play defense and don't depend on our stardom to get us by then I completely agree

I think Melo still has some growing up to do…though making their deep run in the playoffs two years ago probably helped, but I think that was Billips’ influence…so maybe Battier and Yao could create some fire and defense in him. But if you get the chance to sign that strong of an offensive player, much better than a Gordon type player, you grab him….and hope he leaves his thugget ways in mile high

by John P on Aug 17, 2010 12:07 AM CDT up reply actions  

From Bill Ingram at Hoopsworld:

“The Houston Rockets, in particular, are maneuvering themselves into a position to make Denver a significant offer should they opt to deal Anthony at the trade deadline before they risk losing him in July”.

by inquisitiveman on Aug 13, 2010 8:24 PM CDT reply actions  

If Melo signs with the Rockets the first round is on me at Cadillac Bar or some other place in Houston

seriously. That would be awesome….but honestly I don’t see it happening. Unless the potential lockout could lock him into a lower salary, I just see him waiting until next summer to see what options he will have, including playing in NYC with Amare or some other team.
But how does he ever think that working under Dolan and Dantoni will do him any good. Basically you are betting that the NYC team will be awesome even if you have a bad coach.

Anyway, I just don’t see this happening. Maybe Iggy instead but then people say that Philly really like Iggy now, damn it, but those two players are the one that would replace Ariza’s place.

Is there anyone else out there that may be up for a trade?

by John P on Aug 14, 2010 12:04 AM CDT up reply actions  

Amare and Melo would be hilarious. I want that to happen.

But what I don’t understand is how things have gone sour in Denver. He’s their guy, their superstar. But I really don’t understand much in Denver just now. Not renewing Warkentien (sp?)? Really? I mean, by all means, blow that dangerous team up Denver, do us a favor.

"Each in turn... volunteered his suggestions, his invaluable suggestions."

Twitter - xiane1
The Dreamshake

by Xiane on Aug 14, 2010 12:29 AM CDT up reply actions  

really nice read

Ive been replaying the depth in my head since the trade we have the deepest squad imo and now we’ve added ish smith as the 3rd pg I hoped we sign him since his awesome summer league.. but one thing I need to know, isnt Melo contract expiring? if so I say no to a trade with him becuz he may be plotting to run to NY or somewhere so we’d essentially be giving up all those sweet trade chips for nothing once this season ends, idk Grangers contract situation but I believe he has a a couple more years on his deal, I say get this guy and extend him before he takes his physical.. either way we are sitting sitting very pretty and Im just jacked to see what Morey does with this massive bag of tricks

Rockets-Texans-Dynamo-Longhorn fan.. used to be Astros too, but not sure there a pro team anymore

by HB23 on Aug 13, 2010 10:22 PM CDT reply actions  

With ny?

No thanks. They dont have anything left I want back from them.
Maybe Danno G but really not much else.

by AlDe2356 on Aug 14, 2010 1:39 AM CDT up reply actions  

If anything

The Miami Threetards should have shown you that you force the team you’re leaving to accept a pittance and a trade exception for you. The guy can walk and sign straight up, so you either get something (You have no leverage, your player will walk if he damn well pleases) or you let him go.

I'm always right, this isn't conjecture, merely statement of fact.

by BD34 on Aug 14, 2010 7:14 AM CDT up reply actions  

It doesn't impact

this season in the slightest. Sign and Trades are done in the offseason where the player agrees to get dealt to a team, signs with his club, then is traded to that club. If it happens during the season it’s just a trade and again, Melo is either extending with Denver or going to New York anyhow.

I'm always right, this isn't conjecture, merely statement of fact.

by BD34 on Aug 14, 2010 8:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

Are you sure?

I thought there were instances where a player in his last season got an extension during that season with his old team and gets traded with both parties agreeing. I’m not 100% on this, but remembering it happened before a few years ago. I don’t think legally that it has to be done in the offseason. If Melo doesn’t want to sign an extension with the Nuggets, they could do themselves and him a favor by having him sign an extension and trading him to a team that he wants to play for and the Nuggets could get some assets(players, $, etc.) in return. Anyone know the legal aspects if this is possible?

by inquisitiveman on Aug 15, 2010 12:46 AM CDT up reply actions  

Pretty sure

that’s not a sign and trade, that’s just business. Extending a player is not the same as a sign in trade to my knowledge since a sign and trade is a free agent with certain rights still held by his club agreeing to trade the player to a certain team (At his consent). After that point, the club maximizes the player’s salary (or can) and a trade is done. Extensions on players are merely extending contracts and retaining all rights within that contract.

ex.) If you made 10 million last season, your contract is up and you don’t want to come back and play for the T-Wolves (Why wouldn’t you?!?!). Assuming Kahn isn’t mentally handicapped, he can offer you a contract of something like 15 mill or so (depending on your tenure in the league), the most another club can give you is 12. Are you going to leave 3 million on the table? No. Do you want to leave? Yes. So you sign and trade. Sign with Minnesota for 15 million, get traded to a team with your permission, you’re out, you’ve maxed your money, your club has you, your former club has something for you, all are happy.

Melo’s situation:
You’re still with the Wolves, your contract runs out after this season. They can extend you to avoid the messy free agency process. Kahn contacts you and offers to extend your contract on an increased payscale for 3 more years (Say you’ll end up making something like 16 mill a year with raises, incentives, etc…). Sounds good to you, you’re in it for the money anyway. Well, now Kahn for shits and giggles decides to trade you to the Clippers. You’re gone. No need to consent, nothing.

The crucial difference is the power of the player in the situations. Once you extend a contract, you’ve exhausted your voice/say in the matter because you’re still under contract as that team’s employee. Once your contract runs out, as a player, you get much more bargaining power. I could be wrong and could have wasted everyone’s time in this matter, but as far as I know, those two situations encapsulate it.

I'm always right, this isn't conjecture, merely statement of fact.

by BD34 on Aug 15, 2010 9:51 AM CDT up reply actions  

but what if Melo says he doesn't want to play for the Nuggets

and he is willing to be traded and the team that he wants to go to asks that they will only want him if he signs the extension? Lets say that the Nuggets agree to this also. Could it be done? What i want to know if it is ok as far as the rules/procedures of the NBA? Anyone else know the real rules on this?

Of course, i’m not saying that this is what Melo wants. My question is more if this is possible according to the NBA for any player in Melo’s situation.

by inquisitiveman on Aug 15, 2010 10:06 AM CDT up reply actions  

or that the Nuggets like what they will get in return(players, $, etc.) from team X

and that team X wants Melo, but only if he is willing to sign that extension to protect themselves from him becoming a free agent to sign elsewhere this next summer.

by inquisitiveman on Aug 15, 2010 10:12 AM CDT up reply actions  

it'd only be a trade then extension

if mid-season, because teams arent willing to go through the pain in the ass process of negotiation if a player is leaving anyway. If teams are only willing to trade if the player agrees to extend, then you can only negotiate through the front office with the player, but the actual process is often done after the trade.

in most cases, the players are basically loaners then dependent on how he likes his chances and team, he signs a new contract or extends

by NVP on Aug 15, 2010 11:37 AM CDT up reply actions  

I understand, but what i was trying to find out is if it can be done or not.

Also, keep in mind the superstars have more power even in their contract year. If they don’t want to play for that team, they will be traded. They can raise a stink on where they want to be traded to. I see superstars as having power on where they want to play. Managment can tell the player to fu** off and trade him to whomever, but that doesn’t mean the player will be happy or even bother reporting to the new team. This would nullify the trade. Even if they did go the team that they weren’t happy with, you can probably see poor performance. That is why superstars really have all the power. Sad to see, but it is what the NBA has become really.

by inquisitiveman on Aug 15, 2010 12:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

I do believe not reporting to new teams results in some heavy punishment now

ie suspension. and it would only hurt the superstar both reputation wise and really salary wise. Not playing hard does nothing for your career or legacy. Some owner/management/coach are more stubborn than you think(some irrationality is always involved)

It’s probably doable, but it’s unlikely in Melo’s case

by NVP on Aug 15, 2010 1:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yes, that would be too extreme for that player to sit out, but he

could voice his displeasure publically about not wanting to play there and also do it every so often which would wear thin on his new team. He could play but kinda ‘coast’ on the court sort of speak. I don’t believe Melo would ever do this, but something to think about.

by inquisitiveman on Aug 15, 2010 1:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

well that still get you the reputation of having no heart

it often have to be an extreme situation for people to sympathize with a disgruntle player, like KG and the wolves. Teams always thinks of getting the best return first(unless you’re memphis or minny), and having no heart do you no favors to get you traded. Agents arent idiots, PR is as much of the equation as talent and performance.

Players often act disgruntle for 2 reasons, either they are self-important idiots or player is severely out playing his cast for several years and management seems completely incompetent. They’ll get traded, but often arent the easiest thing in the world, if a team is determine to waste your youth and talent, you are contractually bound to do so, and coasting isnt going to help a bit with your value

by NVP on Aug 15, 2010 2:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

i still think though alot of teams would still take that

superstar(CP3) if he was happy about going to their team. If his heart isn’t into it with the right team, they would definitely ask that player if he had problem with playing for them. Heart can change depending on the team. I doubt it would get to the point of him being traded to a team he didn’t like. I don’t think the team seeking him would let it even get to the point of asking for a player that didn’t want to go there. They probably wouldn’t even pursue it so coasting most likely wouldn’t even happen, just an extreme.

by inquisitiveman on Aug 15, 2010 2:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

You're thinking way too much into it

If a player doesn’t like where he is, he raises a fuss and makes a trade request. The front office can either trade him or tell him to f*ck off. A guy in a contract year has little bargaining power to request a trade since if the team tells him to go away, he’ll only hurt his chances at a contract, if he plays out of his mind, then his team won’t maximize his money for being a little twatwaffle.

Also, you’re worrying too much about the idea of him signing an extension, he either does it or he doesn’t. It’s standard for a player to be able to sign an extension or become a free agent, that’s just the process. Once a team gets the contract they can do the extension.

Again, having said that, people need to stop living in dreams. Anthony is either in Denver or NY whenever the next NBA season starts. Every fanbase is like this, if a player is remotely available they always think their team has the best package ever to get them then talks incessantly about it.

I'm always right, this isn't conjecture, merely statement of fact.

by BD34 on Aug 15, 2010 11:56 AM CDT up reply actions  

Like i said, all i wanted to know was if it could be done under NBA rules..

All the stuff you’re talking about is normal stuff and what you think, but i wanted to know what was legal or not. A superstar really does have power in where he wants to go and play really. Management might not give a shit and trade him or tell him to fu*k off like u said, but he can raise a stink about playing for a new team that he didn’t want. Distractions would lead to him being probably traded again or he might not even report to that team or sit out that year. For an average player, this is not an issue,but for a superstar it is. Superstars hold all the cards really.

Btw, i’ve been finding out that Melo plays really no defense, so i think if they do go for some star, Iggy would be probably a better fit.

by inquisitiveman on Aug 15, 2010 12:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

The "normal stuff"

I’m talking about is because what you’re asking is just that, normal procedure. It’s all legal. You’re thinking too far into something that is extremely common. In the case of Anthony, if he threw a fit, he holds no power. He’s on a team that is mentioned as a possible contender AND in a contract year, he has to perform. If he raises a stink, he only hurts his options.

I'm always right, this isn't conjecture, merely statement of fact.

by BD34 on Aug 15, 2010 1:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

I see what you're saying, but all teams out there know

his abilities. They might see his underperforming as not being happy and not because he doesn’t have it anymore. For like CP3, unless he has a change of heart, if he went public every other week about wanting to get out of NO and play with the list of teams he mentioned, i have a feeling NO would oblige to get something for him and send him to a team of his wishes.

Teams don’t want players who don’t want to play for them. If a player’s heart is not in it, teams won’t want that player no matter who it is really. I know i wouldn’t want a superstar who didn’t want to play for my team. It would become a huge distraction.

So really all i wanted to know was if a player still under contract like Melo or CP3 signs an extension with their original team with the knowledge that they were to be traded immediately, is that legal or not?

by inquisitiveman on Aug 15, 2010 1:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

I might want to add, what is the rule of signing an extension

for a player? Does that player have to be in the last year of his contract or can he have 2 or 3 yrs left to sign an extension?

by inquisitiveman on Aug 15, 2010 1:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

Ok

for like, the fourth time:

Yes, it is legal. It happens a lot that a player signs an extension and can get traded right afterwards.

I’m not arguing that someone wouldn’t make an offer, but most teams also won’t make an offer if they view him as a one year rental because it’s not worth offloading your trade chips for a guy you lose when the season is over anyhow. Teams may want players that want to be there but teams also aren’t dumb enough to ship out players for someone who won’t commit long term.

Extensions can happen at any point in time on a contract.

I'm always right, this isn't conjecture, merely statement of fact.

by BD34 on Aug 15, 2010 1:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

lol, i remember his playoff defense,

He just zones out, and was standing 5 feet away from his man, let him shoot open jumpers all day long. I mean he could at least stand in front of his man, thats not too hard to ask for is it?

by AK1111 on Aug 16, 2010 6:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

ur looking to far into one season,

a lot of teams have 1 promising season. Look at the bulls like 5 years ago,w e all thought they would be awesome with Tyrus Thomas, Lou Deng, Andre Niconii, Ben Gordon cuz they were young and showed great potential. Unfortunately they ended up dissembling that team and starting from scratch. OKC may be the same. They might be excellent this season, or 8th seed.

by AK1111 on Aug 16, 2010 6:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

I don't think so...

no one though Gordon or Salmons had long term goodness in their future. Even though I love watching him play when he is on, I wouldn’t be suprised in Salmons falls off from this past year of hard work…and we all saw Gordon’s contribution last year.

I think OKC is a different story. True they may not be #2, but if you follow their trend growth, worst team to playoffs in two years, there is tons of upside and improvement that makes them hard to bet against. If anything Durant is getting better with age, and I am not talking about playing ability, he is keeping more or less humble and still the skinny nice kid to grace UT’s campus for a season. God bless that he is a longhorn…cause all longhorns kick ass!!!…(except TJ Ford these days)

by John P on Aug 17, 2010 12:10 AM CDT up reply actions  

Carroll "Freaking" Dawson - Ok so Gay is no Battier but WTF...

it’s not like the Rockets ever got close to contending – that move was horrible (ok ok, 22 in a row, good D on Kobe) but that was our Granger/Iggy sitting right there – “With the 8th pick, the Houston Rockets select Shane Battier”.

Also, did anyone notice how sketchy Derrick Rose looked out there today. It appears his game may be more suited for the NBA (hope it was an off day)

by Mount St. Helens on Aug 15, 2010 6:00 PM CDT reply actions  

Yea!

Fuck the Battier trade! Rudy Gay has proven to be the consummate defender, a tenacious rebounder, an all around guy you can build your team around defensively and offensively! I mean look at how beast mode Memphis was before the addition of Randolph and Mayo!

I can not take this post seriously.

I'm always right, this isn't conjecture, merely statement of fact.

by BD34 on Aug 15, 2010 7:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

lol, and that max contract too!

he is worth every penny! we would NOT have a toxic contract for the next 5-6 years.

by AK1111 on Aug 16, 2010 6:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

It was a completely logical deal

to rid us of Stromil. Who actually thought both Tmac and Yao would end up hurt half the time? We were trying to contend, you cant fault him with now hindsight 20/20. besides, Gay didnt get here without taking shots, lots lots shots.

Also Gay is no Granger, in fact Granger has him beat on pretty much all advance stats from TS% to defensive ratings, except for possibly rebounding, and Iggy is is closer to gay, but is actually a far better playmaker and rebounder

and seriously he owned the french, yeah He was awesome at open court, but coach K’s pressure defense was design to hyper utilize the American hyper athleticism, and Rudy Gay is a hyper athlete. if you zone him, he will take them 3s like he thinks he is suppose to do

by NVP on Aug 15, 2010 8:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

Now that we lost Ariza...i think Iggy will be the better fit for this team.

He can play both sides of the ball. Can’t see any other star available that can do both. I think the deal for Iggy is a strong possibility before the deadline. One thing i’m pretty certain of, is that Iggy won’t be a 76er after the trade deadline. The question is , will he be a Rocket?

by inquisitiveman on Aug 15, 2010 9:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

and your basis for this is because...?

I think Iggy would be a great compliment to this team for sure. But he is the best player the 6ers have and still youngish. I agree the 6ers suck but there are many ways to build a team that does not require you to necessarily trade away your best talent.

Look, from all I have heard Iggy is the most likely good player available at some point but you still don’t know what is actually going to be available. At the end of the day we may just have to stand still and do the best with our already kick ass team. Iggy would be a good insurance policy though.

by John P on Aug 17, 2010 12:14 AM CDT up reply actions  

I dont' think we need iggy tbh with our current roster.

Unless we are making a move for a premier allstar or superstar. Iggy is good, but a feel overrated. His high in pnt was 34 in his career? I know he brings other things to the table, but just filling up the roster with 12 million dollar players averaging 15-16 pnts a game isn’t going to get us past the Lakers. I understand the pistons were able to do it with their roster, but t hey had Chauncey Billups and Rip and Tashuan could also close the deal when needed.

by AK1111 on Aug 17, 2010 11:22 AM CDT up reply actions  

It doesn't mean anything other than maybe Melo goes to NYC

It would suck for our draft picks if he did, but I don’t think it means we can even remotely say that we can get Melo…except for maybe one year..this coming season.
Unless we can talk to both Paul and Melo and trade for both of them to come to Houston, and thats a big if, considering NYC is, well NYC, and Amare is already there.
It would wipe out our team to do that three way deal, with loosing Brooks, Martin, Bud, Hill, draft picks, Battier, Jefferies, and just about any other tradeable assets: leaving:
CP3 and Lowry
Lee/Melo
Melo/Battier
Scola/Patterson
Yao/Miller

And probably no draft picks for the next year or two…

but it would be a pretty damn good team…in fantasy land

by John P on Aug 17, 2010 12:20 AM CDT up reply actions  

I think Iggy will be a better fit, but maybe we should wait to see how our team plays

during 1st half of season. Btw, i meant the audio portion where Bucher talks about Deron Williams possibly being the next ‘disgruntled’ player wanting out.

by inquisitiveman on Aug 17, 2010 11:07 AM CDT up reply actions  

personality wise for sure

Melo is lazy due to his great skill set and thugget attitude. But all that being said, if we can play him with Battier and Yao on the court at the same time…and Lee, we can maybe make up for his lack of D…maybe.
Iggy is a more well rounded player, better personailty and better D (he actually plays D) but at clutch moments I would rather give the ball to Melo

by John P on Aug 17, 2010 1:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

That there

would be plagiarism.

I'm always right, this isn't conjecture, merely statement of fact.

by BD34 on Aug 17, 2010 6:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

Or theft

since it is paid content that requires a subscription. Using your subscription to in turn make paid content free is considered piracy in most circles.

It’s plagiarism if he pawns it off as his own.

I'm always right, this isn't conjecture, merely statement of fact.

by BD34 on Aug 17, 2010 6:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

cant read it anyways. Still asks you to log in.

Why the fuck do they make us pay anyways for someones OPINION?

by AK1111 on Aug 17, 2010 6:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

Lots of professions do it

Medical profession – Doctor’s opinion on your health and what to do

Lawyer – Legal opinion on your rights and feasibility of your case

Financial Advisor – How to best spend your money

Dude at the drive thru – Opinions on how to increase your value meal

College professors – Their opinion on academic matters and subjects (Math = immune to subjectivity, all others, fair game).

Life is essentially just paying people for opinions.

I'm always right, this isn't conjecture, merely statement of fact.

by BD34 on Aug 17, 2010 6:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yes, it's amazing how much stuff people do for money.

"Each in turn... volunteered his suggestions, his invaluable suggestions."

Twitter - xiane1
The Dreamshake

by Xiane on Aug 17, 2010 11:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

Lookin' for a good time, sailor?

I'm always right, this isn't conjecture, merely statement of fact.

by BD34 on Aug 17, 2010 11:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

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