Watch this video and pause it at 45 seconds.........
by batman713 on Sep 3, 2010 2:58 PM CDT
Email
Print
David Stern Fixing 1985 Draft Lottery *HIGH QUALITY* (via TRJ22487)
If you paused this at 45 secs. you can clearly see that the envelope David Stern chose was bent at the corner as if to be a sign that that was for the team he wanted to win. This was the first annual NBA draft lottery. The Knicks won the first pick (funny because Stern is from NY and it is the biggest market for the company he runs) and went on to draft Patrick Ewing. The season before, the Rockets had the worst record therefore clinching the first overall pick in the draft. Stern accused the Rockets organization of intentionally tanking the season to get the first pick. That brought about the idea for a draft lottery.
As many of you know I am a conspiracy theorist. I honestly believe the NBA attempts to alter things under the table to make more money or give certain teams an edge. I am not saying the NBA is fixed, I am just saying they try to give certain teams advantages (*cough* the Lakers*cough cough*). I know some of you may be thinking I am crazy but how about this; until someone can explain to me game 6 of the WCF in 2002 I will always think something is fishy in the NBA. Another question I want answered is why is most of the controversy in the NBA surrounding the Lakers? Sure the Celticshave the most titles but they did most of their damage in the '60's and in the BIrd era when there was no salary cap. Since Shaq went to LA the controversy began and the favoritism was questioned. Five titles in eight years (2002-2010) should not happen in a league with a draft lottery and a salary cap. They even at least appeared in 6 of the 8. That should raise red flags. If it weren't for Hakeem and Jordan in the 90's and the terrible front office of the Knicks now, I promise they would have faced the Lakers at some in the finals or at least had more appearances there. Some of you may be asking,"What about the Bulls and the Spurs? They won a combined 10 titles in the past 20 years." To counter that question I would like to ask you,"What controversy surrounded those teams?" Too much controversy is around the Lakers these days and it is getting annoying.
My point in this post is that I believe the NBA triesto manipulate things. They may not always do it but they do try and trying to do that is just wrong. I know Tim Donaghy is not the most credible guy on earth but he said something very interesting. He said (and I am paraphrasing) that refs were directed to call games a certain way from game to game. Why is that? Why can't it just be called one way? And we wonder why officiating is so inconsistent. Maybe it is because they are directed to be inconsistent. I know I am going to get ridiculed by some if not all of you but I can take it so don't hold back. Leave your comments, I think this will make for a good discussion.
No cursing in title. No pirated material, such as links to online game streams. Do not cut/paste entire sections of content from other websites. Thanks.
38 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
I guess the Knicks not winning a ring was karma
you think they’re still fixing the lottery?
by goingforthecorner on Sep 4, 2010 1:40 AM CDT reply actions
I never said they always fix the lottery
the point is that they have made an attempt before and you see it there in the vid. Take it how you want to.
GO ROCKETS, GO TEXANS, GO ASTROS (EVEN THOUGH THEY SUCK)!!!
It's harder to rig the lottery now.
And the Knicks got Ewing, and much joy they had of it, too. Ha!
"Each in turn... volunteered his suggestions, his invaluable suggestions."
Twitter - xiane1
The Dreamshake
I've already seen all these videos.
This one got me pissed when I saw it. I already knew that he fixed the ‘02 WCF, but doing this so his favorite team could get the first pick, that’s ridiculous. I didn’t really dig up any of this conspiracy stuff until maybe a month ago. Before then I thought Stern was the best Commish in pro sports, and after I saw these videos, I lost all respect for him. Is there an NBA conspiracy? No. Was there an NBA conspiracy? Yes. Example? ’02 WCF.
"You got to believe in yourself. Hell, I believe I'm the best-looking guy in the world and I might be right."- Charles Barkley
I think that the "favorite" team has nothing to do with it.
The point is to have a strong team in the biggest market in the USA. For many years now the New York market has had two very weak teams. Unfortunately, it seems to be an ownership issue, and there’s not much to be done about Dolan.
As for Russian Mark Cuban, well, he hired Billy King instead of Kevin Pritchard. That pretty much speaks for itself.
What can Stern do about that? Nothing.
"Each in turn... volunteered his suggestions, his invaluable suggestions."
Twitter - xiane1
The Dreamshake
It was known that back then Stern was a big Knicks fan.
"You got to believe in yourself. Hell, I believe I'm the best-looking guy in the world and I might be right."- Charles Barkley
by bone31crusher on Sep 6, 2010 1:05 AM CDT up reply actions
Ok.
Does David Stern strike you as a guy who’d rig a lottery because he was a fan?
To me, absolutely no.
He does strike me as a guy who’d rig a lottery to insure that the team in the NBAs biggest market did well. But I imagine that if we have suspicions the other owners have more of them, and that helps keep him honest. Because he’s not the emperor of the NBA, despite his actions to the contrary. He serves at the pleasure of the owners. So far his guidance has put a lot of money in their pockets, so he continues.
"Each in turn... volunteered his suggestions, his invaluable suggestions."
Twitter - xiane1
The Dreamshake
Good write up and good idea for conversation.
I know a lot about this topic.
"You got to believe in yourself. Hell, I believe I'm the best-looking guy in the world and I might be right."- Charles Barkley
I have a question then. If you support having an NBA draft, does your support for the draft decrease when it is revealed how easily and against the spirit of competition the draft can be manipulated? OR, do you advocate more openess and transparency despite more openess and transparency never being given?
by ClutchFanSince94 on Sep 4, 2010 11:31 AM CDT reply actions
I'm always for openness and transparency.
But remember – this is a private associate of privately held businesses. If you’re a free market guy you have to respect their autonomy to run their organization how they like, as long as they aren’t violating any laws.
You can argue they are quasi public, with all the arenas, but that’s our fault for building these private companies their equivalent of office buildings with public money. But people vote for it, so what are you gonna do?
"Each in turn... volunteered his suggestions, his invaluable suggestions."
Twitter - xiane1
The Dreamshake
Rewatch the video. Look at all the envelopes tumbling around. I guarantee you that the corners on all of those envelopes are bent.
by seanbergmanrules on Sep 4, 2010 1:25 PM CDT reply actions
i think you are just
in denial but whatever man take it how you want. Like I said before, until someone explains the 2002 WCF I will always have doubts in the back of my mind about the NBA.
GO ROCKETS, GO TEXANS, GO ASTROS (EVEN THOUGH THEY SUCK)!!!
I agree that there are fishy things going on in the NBA, but this draft was not one of them. The envelopes are tumbling far harder than they did in the initial drop that allegedly bent the Knicks envelope.
by seanbergmanrules on Sep 4, 2010 4:57 PM CDT up reply actions
Think about it this way
if the Knicks never got Patrick Ewing, we wouldn’t have Scottie Pippen dunking over him!
Go Rockets/Nets[CDR]/Bucks[Jennings]!
by Prevenge on Sep 5, 2010 3:36 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I don’t agree with your rambling theory, therefore I’m a Knicks fan. Got it.
by seanbergmanrules on Sep 5, 2010 5:32 PM CDT up reply actions
just seems like you are defending them to the fullest
thats what fans do
GO ROCKETS, GO TEXANS, GO ASTROS (EVEN THOUGH THEY SUCK)!!!
Yes. And my long history of posting on here was just a ruse for the day that the Ewing pick would be criticized, so that I could spring into defensive action. It couldn’t be that you’re basing a conspiracy theory solely on emotion, when the objective facts point to a completely different conclusion.
by seanbergmanrules on Sep 6, 2010 4:05 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
"You got to believe in yourself. Hell, I believe I'm the best-looking guy in the world and I might be right."- Charles Barkley
by bone31crusher on Sep 6, 2010 6:00 PM CDT up reply actions
I wouldn't put it past them to do that on the lottery.
As for the 2002 WCF, well I basically stopped watching for several years after that. It was vile.
"Each in turn... volunteered his suggestions, his invaluable suggestions."
Twitter - xiane1
The Dreamshake
I challenge those who say no to
To back up their reasons for thinking so. This is for discussion and we cannot get anywhere if you don’t support your vote.
GO ROCKETS, GO TEXANS, GO ASTROS (EVEN THOUGH THEY SUCK)!!!
exactly, back up your reasons. So, again, why do you support the draft if you feel like it has been manipulated unfairly?
by ClutchFanSince94 on Sep 4, 2010 5:01 PM CDT up reply actions
It is the fairest way to distribute the best talent from the NCAA
How else do you propose those guys enter the NBA.
GO ROCKETS, GO TEXANS, GO ASTROS (EVEN THOUGH THEY SUCK)!!!
thought my position was clear. They enter the NBA just like people choose a college and then just like people enter the workforce upon graduation. That would prevent the NBA from manipulating the system.
by ClutchFanSince94 on Sep 5, 2010 2:07 PM CDT up reply actions
then we would
inevitably have a top heavy league and there would be no balance. Besides that is what free agency is for. There would be corruption involved in this as well you know. Teams would be paying these guys under the table to sway their decisions. The Lakers would now always be #1 because most players favorite team is the Lakers. They would sure like to play for their favorite team and with their favorite player. It just takes away from the front offices and the business side itself.
GO ROCKETS, GO TEXANS, GO ASTROS (EVEN THOUGH THEY SUCK)!!!
College basketball with no draft of HS players is arguably “top heavy” but it still makes for great competition come march. BUT, the NBA is CURRENTY top heavy, so the harm that you project has already occured and we are all still NBA fans. See: LA Lakers, Chicago Bulls, Boston Celtics. In fact, NBA lore is built around the league being top heavy with perennial champions like the Lakers and Celtics. Lack of a draft would allow other teams to compete with the top teams who arguably have the rules bent in their favor (the Patrick Ewing “fix” you are alleging now and the 2002 WCF).
by ClutchFanSince94 on Sep 6, 2010 11:29 AM CDT up reply actions
Are you on crack?
College basketball is an association of amateurs with about 2 top recruits at best showing up on a given roster, the other players are all just there, that’s why it’s great competition, not that the best choose where they go.
As far as teams that “get the rules bent in their favor” and win titles, if you remove the draft players will only continue to migrate over there. Your rule compounds the issue rather than solves it. Please, just stop trying.
I'm always right, this isn't conjecture, merely statement of fact.
Really, you are arguing that college basketball is not top heavy when teams like Duke and North Carolina repeatedely get the top top talent? I don’t understand the complete vitriol and lack of even attempting to understand someone else’s point of view just because it deviates from what you view as something unchangeable.
by ClutchFanSince94 on Sep 6, 2010 6:57 PM CDT up reply actions
http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/mayhem/history/finalfourseeds
tell me this is not top heavy
by ClutchFanSince94 on Sep 6, 2010 6:59 PM CDT up reply actions
So all you do
is point out that some programs are historically good and try to put words in my mouth but then supply a link that proves me correct? Good try though. You say you want people to choose where to go and it creates competition and all this other garbage, your link right there shows it’s the same teams consistently because players choose where to go.
Notice in my post I never said anything about a non-top heavy league, you attempted to say I brought it up, but all you really did was try to cover your own ass from being wrong.
I'm always right, this isn't conjecture, merely statement of fact.
The Tim Donaghy scandal was big.
Not just because of the allegations he made in the process of his confessional in recent years, but when looking back at one series in particular (Kings vs Lakers, 2002) it is soooooo obvious the series was fixed. That was the series afterall that shed light on the nasty truth of the NBA and Donaghy being led out as a sacrificial lamb.
You can Youtube it, and find all sorts of videos covering each critical point of that series.
Never, to my memory will you find any other NBA game/series that is as widely recognized as a rigged game like the 2002 series between Kings and Lakers.
You’ll see current Rockets coach Rick Adelman there trying to make sense of it all, just being set-up. I don’t even think Phil or the Lakers were delusional enough to walk out of that game thinking they won legitimately. It was a total fix.
And you really feel bad for the Kings, I mean, it was just depressing.
I had already lost interest in the NBA some years prior to that controversy, but after that it just kept me away completely until about 3 years ago. I started watching again mostly for the entertaining display of athleticism exhibited by players like LeBron or Derrick Rose.
Along with the younger players, it’s always good to see veterans like Nash, Yao, and Allen continue to play at a high level.
I’ve started paying closer attention to the Rockets for a few reasons.
One of them has to do with the combination of Alexander, Morey, and Adelman making some good moves to position Houston for a successful rebuild within a couple seasons so that Houston will at least be an entertaining team to watch. I never liked McGrady, I probably only watched 4 or 5 Rockets games while McGrady was a starter. And while I’m on the subject, I’ll probably respond with a similar level of disinterest if Houston acquires Melo.
Anyway, the games are rigged, and there’s nothing anybody can do to convince me otherwise.
by Nobody is Better Than Jordan on Sep 4, 2010 7:01 PM CDT reply actions
A few comments
First, good post man. Though I do want to echo the concern that given the tumble of those cards, to me, I saw about 2 or 3 bent corner cards when Stern went fishing and I think it was more the tumble that cased it. I paused at 45 seconds and you can see 2 to 3 corners were bent that look to be just a consequence of the way in which the envelopes were handled/stirred up. Do I think Stern rigged the lottery that year? I certainly wouldn’t put it past him but I also am going to give him the benefit of the doubt on this one.
As far as the NBA Being rigged for some games, yea, you definitely see it. The Kings/Lakers series, as has been discussed is the most egregious of all of these accusations. Sacramento got royally screwed. Though this does segue into my biggest question. When you mention the Lakers and all of this purported controversy, what do you mean? To my knowledge it’s really only the Sacramento/LA WCF that has the Lakers at the center of the controversy. The Gasol trade doesn’t count as controversy to me because you clearly see Memphis (a) as a bad club and (b) did the trade for cash/future flexibility.
I do love it when people raise the Spurs defense in NBA rigging conversations because in 2005 when Mark Cuban’s complaint won Dallas the series there emerged the wide spread belief that Dallas was better equipped to take on the Spurs in a prolonged series, thus the refs should call to manipulate it to Dallas’s favor to make sure the “inferior” Houston team didn’t just get knocked out quick against the Spurs. I will forever hold that if it weren’t for that bogus series that McGrady would have been out of the first round.
As far as Clutch pushing his agenda by trying to knock the NBA Draft, I find the NBA Draft is a fair system, I think the lottery should be replaced by a single elimination tournament amongst the teams that missed the playoffs and vie for the top pick in the NBA Lottery ranked by record. Teams that barely missed (We’re talking teams like when the Warriors won 50 games and missed the playoffs) to low 40’s in wins would be one bracket playing for picks 10-15, then teams sup 40 wins duking it out for 1-10.
I'm always right, this isn't conjecture, merely statement of fact.
When I talk about the Lakers and controversy
Not only am I talking about the 2002 WCF but also the series against Pippen’s Trailblazers where they made yet another “great” 4th quarter comeback. That was anoter series that stood out as rigged. If you ask most conspiracy theorist they will tell you they think the NBA cheats for the Lakers. Think about it for a minute, from the 2002 season and on they won so many close games and comeback games and they did not have talented teams. All they had was Shaq and Kobe for the most part. You mean to tell me that they could consistently beat more talented teams in that fashion legitimately? If they were so great, why weren’t they blowing teams out like true dominant teams do? Watch a Laker game, especially in the playoffs, and see how many 50/50 calls go in their favor. That is controversy.
GO ROCKETS, GO TEXANS, GO ASTROS (EVEN THOUGH THEY SUCK)!!!
The Rockets tried to build around the two dominant player model
it worked. While I agree superstar calls and stuff certainly enables it, I wouldn’t say it’s rigging considering the two superstar model was pursued by Houston hard and most legit teams during that period did hold two superstars.
I'm always right, this isn't conjecture, merely statement of fact.
well..
Nothing against saying theres been fishy and downright wrong things done in the NBA, but as far as saying that envelope was clearly set up for the knicks to win, they show him putting them in closely and there isn’t a bent corner till its retrieved..from a dome that spun 5 times shaking the cards against its insides.
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
In Association With
Ball Don't Lie - NBA - Yahoo! Sport
- Video: Boston works in a half-court football snap after winning the tip
- Judging the choices for the Eastern Conference All-Star team reserves
- Judging the choices for the Western Conference All-Star team reserves
- Jeremy Lin draws inspiration from Tim Tebow
- Stephen Jackson is already tired of Milwaukee
Certain photos copyright © 2012 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
