World Championships Preview/Gamethread II
Dreamshake stalwart Moondebah posted this gamethread for the FIBA Championships in Turkey, and since it is actual for-real basketball where the games have some meaning, I'd say it's worthy of a place on the front page. Also, Rocket Luis Scola is heavily involved as the best player so far in the tourney, so there's your Rockets link right there. - Xiane
Just in case people are interested in gabbing about the USA games (or others, I watch what I can), I figured I could give a place for us to congregate.
Interesting games upcoming:
USA v. Angola, Monday at 10 am CT on ESPN2/ESPN3
The US should win this, but they're probably going up against the most athletic team (other than themselves) in this tournament. I anticipate that we would do better against a highly athletic but unskilled team like Angola than a moderately athletic but highly skilled team like Spain or Argentina, but since we haven't really played one yet, who knows? Winner of this game plays on Thursday vs. Russia/New Zealand
Argentina v. Brazil, Tuesday at 1 pm CT on ESPN3
Not only based on their 2 point loss to the US has Brazil been one of the more surprising teams in this tournament. One of these two team (or Lithuania) will meet the US in the semifinals unless something goes wrong. Argentina has been looking fairly week this tourney (and Brazil beat them last year on their way to the FIBA Americas championship), but Scola has been looking badass. He's been carrying them, and unfortunately he can probably only carry them so far. Winner of this game plays on Thursday vs. Lithuania (or China, but not really)
No cursing in title. No pirated material, such as links to online game streams. Do not cut/paste entire sections of content from other websites. Thanks.
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Do you think Angola is more athletic than Brazil?
Just curious.
"Each in turn... volunteered his suggestions, his invaluable suggestions."
Twitter - xiane1
The Dreamshake
Based on my inimitable sample size of watching each team play no more than twice.....sure.
I’d say the teams in this tourney that trade in athleticism are USA, Brazil, France, Germany, Angola, and Serbia (and special mention to NZ’s Thomas Abercrombie, who Golden State should sign just so he can be in the dunk contest). But the only reason Angola eliminated a Germany team that lost by a total of 5 points to Serbia & Argentina was because they ran them out of the building.
I seriously recommend checking out the last 2 minutes of regulation of that game on ESPN3 (1:44 on theESPN3 replay will have Angola down by 8 with 3 minutes to play), which is the ugliest, turn-over-iest, crazy-banked-three-iest, intentional-foul-backfiring-est improbable comeback I’ve seen in an elimination game. In fact, I’m going to watch it right now so that the inevitable sloppy play at the beginning of the US/Angola game looks elegant by comparison.
One other comment -
Lamar Odom is a much more useful and explosive player when freed from the triangle.
"Each in turn... volunteered his suggestions, his invaluable suggestions."
Twitter - xiane1
The Dreamshake
Maybe so, but he ain't a center.
Unless noone on the other team helps their true center guard him outside the three line. Then he destroys them on the drive.
I'd agree with that too.
But he’s more fun to watch in this context. You forget he can dribble.
"Each in turn... volunteered his suggestions, his invaluable suggestions."
Twitter - xiane1
The Dreamshake
I know a lot of people are watching the FIBA tourney
but Moondebah always seems to be up-to-date on international stuff, even during their offseasons. At least that’s how I see it. Keep up the good work man. It’s guys like you that have me bragging to all my friends that I write for TDS.
How many Biletnikoffs does he have? NOT TWO!
Awe shucks, you guys
I’m nothing special, just the kind of basketball fan that would rather watch the best players in the world actually play (well, a few of the best players in the world) than try to parse the meaning of what they say at Carmelo’s wedding.
Also I play pickup with a bunch of international guys that represent over half the teams in the tourney, so I get trash-talked into caring about FIBA play. You know who is annoying? Bulgarian Lakers fans.
Unfortunately
I won’t be around for these games so I’ll miss chatting about them. But I’m definitely going to be interested in watch them on DVR later. Here’s to hoping for another badass performance by Luis!
(And I agree with the editors, keep up the great work. I’ve really enjoyed your analysis on the World tourny and just your comments and opinions in general, thanks for keeping us informed.)
Are the Bobcats playing?
Camera pans out to show about 60 people on the far side of the court. A Durant dunk gets a golf clap.
Oh, weird FIBA scenario I haven't seen before:
Angola “misses” a free throw. It bounces around on the rim while two Americans try to swat it off (a la the offensive goaltending rule) but eventually drops in. Ref rules that it was touched it so it becomes a two-pointer instead of a one-pointer.
What to take away from the US/Angola game:
Worried about team USA’s ability to shoot their way out of a zone defense? Worried about their turnovers against athletic teams? Worried about their ability to play inside against bigger teams with traditional centers?
Well worry no more! Or worry less. Not including Steph Curry and Danny Granger, two players who have been having a tough tournament and probably won’t see much air in competitive games, the US shot a whopping 56.9% from the field, 58.6% from three, and committed only 2 (!!!) turnovers. Seriously, there’s no reason the Rockets shouldn’t covet Curry and Granger once real basketball starts, but in just 30 COMBINED minutes they were responsible for 9 of our 37 missed field goals, 8 of our 20 missed threes, and 3 of our 5 turnovers (all Curry). Granger, by missing a free throw, even managed to lower our FT%. Ick.
What to worry about? Against Angola, not much. We weren’t really tested inside (their tallest player is 6’8"), which has been our biggest non-self-inflicted problem in our previous games. I guess Tyson Chandler did get 4 fouls in 13 minutes against a team where he has 5 inches on every player and a constant 30 point lead. Ick.
The one really worrisome thing is how many times an Angolan received the ball unguarded under his own hoop. Offensive rebounds, perimeter double-teams that left a man open inside, and a couple times when we almost had a good steal and so our centers left their guy to run down the court. We actually managed to salvage a few of these by swooping in at the last second, but any team with a 7-footer will flush these down easy.
That said, this was a hell of a game for the US. We had the start to finish dominating performance that you would have expected us to have against teams like Tunisia and Iran (but didn’t), and against a much better team (yes, there is about as big a talent difference between Angola and Tunisia as there is between the US and Angola).
Worrisome things
Watching Russia play volleyball with every rebound in the Rus/NZ game gave real pause for concern with the lack of height and basket protection. How do you see the U.S. competing against the stifling defense the Russians put up on NZ>
I think we match up well.
Disclosure: the only Russian games I saw were most of the Puerto Rico game and then about 3/4 of the NZ one. My impression from the Puerto Rico game was that Russia was a standard (but not exceptional) Euro team. By that I mean they had a couple of big, physical centers and surrounded them with moderately athletic stretch shooters on offense, played a lot of help defense and zone on defense.
NZ was indeed unable to handle a fearsome Russian defense, but I’m not worried for a few reasons.
1) It was New Zealand (does anyone else’s spell check flag “Zealand”? That seems insulting). They’ve played decently this tourney, but they’re 13th in the FIBA rankings. Angola was 12th.
2) It seemed like Russia played stifling, very high (pressure outside the 3-line) mostly man-to-man defense to shut down the one area that NZ had an advantage: Kirk Penny, their leading scorer and the guard through which the entire offense runs. Penny got in foul trouble early, and the extra time on the bench (he played 28 minutes, 4 less than his average in non-elimination games) didn’t help them. They pestered him high, low, and everywhere, and he couldn’t get his shot up (previous FG%: 47.0. Today: 38.4). New Zealand couldn’t set up their offense with their playmaker in foul trouble and being chased around.
But our best player isn’t our PG, and we often have two all-star ball handlers on the floor. If they hound Derrick Rose high, most likely he will blow past them and dunk or dish, but he could also pass over to Billups and have him handle the ball. If they get Durant in foul trouble, Rudy Gay will be glad to light up.
The main concern is the volleyball inside, which will be our problem against any team with a decent front-court. However, we’ve mostly had trouble being backed down (as Gasol did in the Spain game before their coach stopped letting Odom practice against him, or Splitter did in the Brazil game).
We’ve actually been doing pretty well on the boards. I don’t have any advanced stats, but we’re leading the tournament in both FG% (which means we aren’t just rebounding our own shitty shooting) and rebounds per game.
I got that
Good response too. I expect the US will do alright, but they really better bring their outside shot and be prepared to bang inside because rebounds and putbacks are going to be premium in a matchup with Russia.
Ummmm, so China is beating Lithuania by 6 in the middle of the 2nd.
I was planning on skipping this one, but looks like I may have to pay attention.
I'm looking forward to having Scola back at proper 4 next year.
Watching him chase people around the perimeter and slash toward the basket make me forget that he isn’t just a high-post player. I was caught off guard by how quick he is, but we got to see some of that a few years ago as well.
Yao hit a 3 last season but that was in the NBA
But I agree the 3 pt line in international play is kind of short, the Argentina Brazil game is really good, I’m glad Argentina finally has the lead
Also...
Have you watched Yao play with the China team? He has a green light to shoot threes for them. I imagine it’s sort of the same thing as with Scola: they both have the NBA “mid-range” game which actually goes out about as far as the FIBA line. So it’s cool that they’re shooting 3s, but they probably do the same thing a few times in the NBA season from just inside the line.
Yeah I agree
Yao hit a couple of 3s in the NBA if I’m not mistaken and has a good percentage too since he doesn’t take many, who knows we might see Scola hit a 3 next sea on :)
I remember at least one for Yao last year, when he had to take it at the end of the shot clock, but it wasn’t just a heave: he squared up, “elevated” and had great form. He actually doesn’t have that bad a percentage, so I don’t really know why coaches don’t let him shoot when his man just isn’t anywhere near him. Surely he can make 40% when completely unguarded, right?
I mean, you don’t want him to hang out behind the line like Cook, but if he’s there then why not?
Alright...
That is seriously the 3rd time I have seen Scola try to intentionally miss a free throw and it has gone in. He’s done it twice with the Rockets.
even when he tries he can't miss
what a game for him. 37 points, 9 rebounds, 2 steals and a key defensive stop at the end as well as clutch performances on offense.
by ressaliance_00 on Sep 7, 2010 2:57 PM CDT up reply actions
Quarterfinal update....
A result that shouldn’t be surprising (but kind of is, considering that Greece and Brazil ended up finishing 3rd in their groups), each of the top seeds won in the “Eight-finals.” Brief note: FIBA is calling them “eight-finals,” not me. From now on, they’re octofinals.
Overall, this FIBA tournament has been marked by more parity and upsets than I can recall in any of the past 6 or so years that I’ve been paying attention. Maybe not any “US losing at home to Yugoslavia” marquee upsets, but the consensus top 4 teams in the world (US, Greece, Spain, Argentina) left the group stage with a total of 5 losses and Greece has already been sent home. I’m actually really excited about this: one of the reasons I like the World Cup is that every game is exciting, while with FIBA there is such a huge drop between the top teams and the middle (and the middle and the bottom) that over half the group games will uninspired and some will be depressing. This seems to be changing a little.
But we’re left with just the big boys now, so let’s see what we can expect:
Spain v Serbia, Wednesday 10 am CT, ESPN3
Spain is Spain. They’re missing their best player (Pau Gasol) and their most consistent PG (Calderon), but they have to be the most accomplished country over the past 6 years. That said, they aren’t looking super sharp this tourney and Serbia is. Serbia is young, have a Nash-ian point guard, and cruised through the group stage with only a 2 OT loss to Germany as a blemish (whatever, Spain lost to France. And Lithuania). So you might expect this to be a close game, but I wouldn’t be surprised if either team outclasses the other.
Turkey v Slovenia, Wednesday 1 pm CT, ESPN3
Turkey is scary. They’re big inside, can shoot the ball outside, and have a rabid fan base. Most other games seem to have a few hundred people in the stands, but the Turkey games are raucous. They aren’t the most athletic team and they haven’t done anything too spectacular in the games I’ve watched, but they haven’t done anything I noted as bad either. Slovenia has made no impression on me. I watched the US beat on them for a while until I decided that watching Lithuania play Canada would be more interesting. Turkey will win.
Rocky v Drago, Thursday 10 am CT, ESPN/ESPN3
There are plenty of thoughts by myself, svspider, and drsnay76 further up about a US/Russia matchup, so let me sum up: The USA looked better than they have all tournament vs. Angola. Russia looked damn good against New Zealand as well, but they did this by focusing like a laser on NZ’s best player. That shit won’t fly against the USA, so they’ll have rely on what I consider a pretty standard Euro-game: post up that guy we hope won’t help the Knicks make the playoffs and then kick out to 3 point shooters. Play zone and hope the US misses their 3s, try to get the rebounds. Will it be enough? Probably not.
Lithuania v Scola (ok, and Delfino), Thursday 1 pm CT, ESPN3
Scola is clearly the MVP of the tournament so far. Not only has he been putting up the best stats, but he’s also been doing the “guy our whole team depends upon” thing that you really wouldn’t expect Argentina to need. MVPs aren’t often awarded to people who are eliminated in the semifinals, so I really hope Argentina wins this. I thought Argentina was shaky this tourney after losing to Serbia and beating Germany, Australia, and JORDAN by a total of 15 points. Angola beat Jordan alone by that much. However, having just watched a firefight between Brazil and Argentina I know that either of those teams could win this whole tournament. As for Lithuania? They’re undefeated, but got there with some inspired play vs. Spain and some sloppy play vs. Canada and China. Unless Scola is getting tired, I expect Argentina to win this one. Scola deserves to be tired, though.
by Moondebah on Sep 7, 2010 5:35 PM CDT reply actions 3 recs
Great preview.
Also, I can’t say I’m sorry to see Brazil go.
"Each in turn... volunteered his suggestions, his invaluable suggestions."
Twitter - xiane1
The Dreamshake
Is that as a USA fan or as a fan of good basketball?
Because if it’s the former, I’ll agree happily. But if it’s the latter? I’ll agree. But I won’t be happy.
Just as a USA fan, really.
Brazil gave us a tough game and now they’re gone. No real beef with their team or play at all.
"Each in turn... volunteered his suggestions, his invaluable suggestions."
Twitter - xiane1
The Dreamshake
Spain v Serbia getting intense
They’re trading leads in the 3rd quarter. Serbia was in control in the first half, Spain dominated the first few minutes of the 3rd to steal the lead, and then Serbia has only recently stanched the flow.
Note to Spain:
Don’t leave Serbians open at the three point line. They might make it even if they’re guarded, but they’ll DEFINITELY make it if they’re open.
Oh. my. god.
Well, I was all in the process of typing up something about Llull’s defense against Serbia’s playmaker Teodosic, when (after Llull had switched off) Teodosic just made one of the best dagger’s I’ve seen. Wow.
Spain v Serbia
was a good game to watch. I am still having a hangover from watching Arg/Brazil replay, wow. Your preview is turning out to be spot on there. Good job.
The Turks may be really tough to handle with that crowd in the game, poor Slovenia.
I haven’t caught any Lith games yet, hoping Argentina can get past them. Scola really should be MVP. No one else is even close.
So far in the US game...
EXTREMELY high man-to-man pressure by the US against Russia followed by an up-tempo offense. Unfortunately we’ve picked up a couple of quick fouls, but this is the sort of thing that can really pay off later in the game when their starters are exhausted and we get to take advantage of our athletic bench.
Pretty impressed by the US so far, they haven’t played like this before. Is this one of Coach K’s secrets?
I'm not sure exactly what the local time is, but the early games have been less attended than the late games.
I think it's 6:55 pm in Turkey
Also it’s Ramada so people are probably still fasting or just about to break their fast at this time
Trust me junk food isn't the way to go, home food is the best
It’s funny after fasting people eat so much that they actually gain weight!
I remember I saw something once about Hakeem’s production during Ramadan vs.non-Ramadan, and his numbers were slightly better across the board. Which is weird, because I remember him looking pretty weak during the early games.
Alright, this is where our high-intensity defense and offense should pay off:
Russia should start getting tired and the fouls should start piling up. Since we already have a small lead, I expect it to grow quite a bit by the end of the 3rd.
Who knows if the strategy will work in the long run...
But it seems like the lesson Lithuania learned from the Argentina tapes is “stop Scola at all costs.” They’re doing mostly a man defense that sort of collapses into a bunch of guys in the lane when Scola gets the ball inside. Very tough for him to create.
Ick, ugly so far for Argentina.
Hopefully Lithuania gets too tired to continue to play such tough defense.
Well Argentina got schooled
At least this tournament finished w/out Scola getting hurt which is the most important thing.
I’m not sure that Scola is going to get the MVP without making it to the semis but I hope he does get it.
Got a chance to see my DVRed USA-Russia Game
A couple of thoughts
1. You think NBA refs are bad? They look so good in comparison to FIBA refs its not even funny. These guys simply can’t keep up and with refs from generally 2-3 leagues on the court you get 3 interpretations. Touch fouls? Maybe. Slugfest? Possibly. Wavering from one extreme to another? Almost certainly.
2. This team really could have used a couple of legit shooters. Curry doesn’t seem to be it.
3. Durant is simply unstoppable, and can overcome the refereeing. Lamar Odom should be the 2nd team MVP. The guy has been a revelation – looking like his pre-LA days, when he was a guy who could do anything. He’s not a center, but he’s making up for it with simply brilliant play on the defensive end particularly. I just can’t get over this. He generally looks hapless, hesitant and deferential in LA – he’s a much better player in this style and format. He honestly should play elsewhere – he’d make a great Sun.
"Each in turn... volunteered his suggestions, his invaluable suggestions."
Twitter - xiane1
The Dreamshake
Just watching this.
There’s no stopping Durant. Wow.
Just a solid performance from team USA. The “B Team” did what no one else has done in a long while- win a world title.
"Each in turn... volunteered his suggestions, his invaluable suggestions."
Twitter - xiane1
The Dreamshake

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