Team Rebuild: Saying No No to Nene
by Mike Kerns on Nov 28, 2011 12:40 PM CST
in Player Analysis
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PrintFirst of all, welcome back, Dream Shakers. It's been a long time and up until about four hours ago when I got into a twitter battle over this topic, I really had no interest in the NBA yet this season. A 150 day lockout and a winning NFL team in your city will do that.
When I look at the Rockets roster, it doesn't exactly get me all jacked up to watch some hoops. Yes, there is exciting players and they play team ball, yada yada yada. But after two years of it, it's quite clear that it isn't working. Which is why I'm against anything but a rebuild for this franchise. I'll elaborate after the jump.
If Richard Justice is to be believed, if Daryl Morey is unable to convince Nuggets center Nene to leave Denver for Houston, a rebuild is right where they're headed. Actually, let me step aside and give you the words from the man himself:
They’re going all out for free-agent center Nene. He’s 29 years old and coming off a season in which he averaged 14.5 points and 7.0 rebounds per game. Nene is 6-11, 250 pounds, and Morey believes putting him in a lineup with Kyle Lowry and Kevin Martin would give the Rockets three to build around. If Morey doesn’t get him, they could again be fighting for the eighth seed, far from being a team capable of winning in the playoffs. They’d be entertaining and all that, but they wouldn’t be where Leslie Alexander wants them to be. That’s where the tough decision comes in. If they can’t land an impact player in free agency, is it time to rebuild and position themselves for Anthony Davis or Andre Drummond or another high draft pick next summer?
It's quite an interesting scenario, really, and we won't have to wait long to find out. With the season starting in less than a month from today, free agency is expected to start around December 9th. Much like the NFL after the lockout ended, expect to see a wave of moves around the league. What I'm most interested in is to see if any team uses this new Amnesty Clause that allows a team to dump a bad contract...sort of. They are still on the hook for his salary, but the cap hit will be taken off the sheet. Is this something the Rockets would be interested in? Maybe.
I think they will be more interested in who becomes a free agent from another team after using said clause rather than using it on their own roster. They still want to build around Kyle Lowry and he isn't making stupid money, really, so I think he's safe. The one guy I could see it happening to is Luis Scola, but I tend to think that Daryl Morey believes he can get SOMETHING for him in return. But back to the rebuild.
If the Nene story by Justice is fact and not just his speculation, I have to say that I'm not on board with that plan. First of all, I don't think he leaves Denver unless you just knock him over with an offer. Then, if you do that, you're hitching your wagon to a guy who is less than a year from 30 and isn't exactly the type of guy who is going to lead you to a title. Nene is a piece, not a star. Would he fit well with the Rockets? Absolutely. I'd be ecstatic with just about any guy starting at the five for this team who is taller than 6'6". No offense to Chuck, I love ya brother, but I can't take another full season of that.
If they're going to spend that kind of money, I'd rather they put in a sick offer for DeAndre Jordan that the Clippers won't be willing to match. However, I'm still in the camp that believes we should dump Scola, trade Kevin Martin for draft considerations, let the youngsters play this season and rebuild through the draft. You got the Knicks first rounder this season and it's supposedly a deep draft due to the lockout uncertainty last year. Develop the young guys, get good draft picks and assess free agency next year.
I want to see what Daryl Morey can do with this roster when he doesn't have the albatross Yao Ming and Tracy McGrady contracts restricting his every move. I've heard there are supposed to be some pretty good guys out there in the free agency pool in 2012. Which is why I'm going to have to say No No to Nene.
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Can't wait to start contributing to the site again.
This makes me happy on the inside and I’m glad to be wrong.
My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased
I don't think your insides are wrong BD!
"Listen here you beautiful bitch, I'm about to fuck you up with some truth" - Kenny Powers
I also like the rebuild idea here
I’d rather be looking to college than to Nene. But if there’s any GM that can make his team relevant in a hurry, it’s Morey, so we’ll see if he pulls the trigger on something big or not.
How many Biletnikoffs does he have? NOT TWO!
Was too far to huck a beer at a Stro’s player as per bone’s request. Jess (girlfriend) said I was too far, I said challenge accepted, a security guard said guess again.-BD34
can
you link to the article in which you’re quoting Feigen? Looked for it on the chron sports page online, couldn’t find it.
If it’s right, well, I give Morey a lot of credit. Nene, statistically, doesn’t put up jaw-dropping numbers, but there’s something DM must see in his game that makes him a strong fit next to Scola or Patterson. It’s important to keep in mind that Morey seems to have a great eye for picking up players that fit well together, and experience an increase in production when they start playing for us.
Wafer . . . again. (Marv Albert, HOU v. CLE Feb 2009)
-one of the FEW at Toyota Center who has the Wafer jersey
well
I found the article:
It’s a Justice piece, not by Feigen. Personally, I trust the word of JF a little more than RJ, but if it is true, I think Morey knows what’s best
Wafer . . . again. (Marv Albert, HOU v. CLE Feb 2009)
-one of the FEW at Toyota Center who has the Wafer jersey
Ok, now that the lockout is over i can contribute
I feel fine rebuilding. Right now, I look at our starting 5 and see 3 keepers. Lowry Buddinger and Martin. Hayes is awesome, but gone. we need a new center. Scola is IMO our best player, but I think he might be a very good trade option to build towards next year. Any realistic chance we Grab Howard anyway? I also LOVE Patrick patterson as our 4. So maybe Howard in free agency, and a crazy stupid big trade (lowry Scola picks Williams etc) for a superstar point like Paul???
CUT KAREEM JACKSON CUT KAREEM JACKSON CUT KAREEM JACKSON CUT KAREEM JACKSON CUT KAREEM JACKSON CUT KAREEM JACKSON CUT KAREEM JACKSON CUT KAREEM JACKSON CUT KAREEM JACKSON
It's always possible, I guess
I just don’t see a quick fix for this team. Not to be title contenders at least.
alright. I guess my real questions are:
1. What do we REALLY have on roster?
2. What direction are we going to go (free agency, draft, etc)?
3 Are we able to bring any true superstars to Houston?
CUT KAREEM JACKSON CUT KAREEM JACKSON CUT KAREEM JACKSON CUT KAREEM JACKSON CUT KAREEM JACKSON CUT KAREEM JACKSON CUT KAREEM JACKSON CUT KAREEM JACKSON CUT KAREEM JACKSON
by Carter Liles on Nov 28, 2011 1:28 PM CST up reply actions
My best answers, and I don't claim to really have any
1) A bunch of complimentary players with high upside. No all stars.
2) With 2012 being a huge FA year, I say rebuild this year, get good draft spots
3) Hopefully the new CBA will prevent The Heatles 2.0
I think wasting $ on Nene is a bad idea
and upon further consideration, I really think RJ is talking out of his ass – there is nothing that points in the direction of offering a huge salary to Nene, and doing so would really take me by surprise. Sure, we’ll aim for him if other players aren’t available, but there doesn’t seem to be any logic to offering him big-time $.
I see Morey offering something near a max deal to Gasol, who has already shown flashes of being as good as Andrew Bogut (a very talented, albeit injured, player). He’s also only 26, making him around the same age as many of our younger players. He also has no significant injury history. In short, he’s the prototypical player who you can offer near-max money to without him being a top-5 player in the league: he’s a versatile, young 2-way player at the hardest-to-fill position on the floor. You add him to our current core and I can easily see us winning 40-45 games this shortened season.
If Memphis matches (which makes you question the entire stance of the hard-line owners during this lockout), then I can see McHale starting Thabeet and putting him through the wringer to see if he can play at the NBA level. Same with Williams at the 3. McHale seems like the kind of coach who will challenge his young players and ask them, “So you think you’re an NBA starter, well, show me what you got.”
Wafer . . . again. (Marv Albert, HOU v. CLE Feb 2009)
-one of the FEW at Toyota Center who has the Wafer jersey
It would be very interesting if Thabeet ended up starting.
"Hakeem couldn't kick your ass cuz you were too
close kissin his!"- Sir Charles to Kenny Smith.
by bone31crusher on Nov 28, 2011 1:48 PM CST up reply actions
Grizzlies can't afford him.
Wouldn’t be that surprised if we did get him.
"Hakeem couldn't kick your ass cuz you were too
close kissin his!"- Sir Charles to Kenny Smith.
by bone31crusher on Nov 28, 2011 3:04 PM CST up reply actions
Pretty sure they can. Where did you hear they can't?
The Dream Shake ...on Twitter.
"I think girls are probably just better shooters." - Steve Novak
Same here
They can offer him the max and an extra season from everything I’ve seen
www.TheDreamShake.com Co-Founder and Writer
They can offer him the max?
Wow. Didn’t think they had that much cap space with the ridiculous Randolph, Conley, and Gay deals.
"Hakeem couldn't kick your ass cuz you were too
close kissin his!"- Sir Charles to Kenny Smith.
by bone31crusher on Nov 28, 2011 5:40 PM CST up reply actions
Bird rights
They can offer him the max and still stay under the luxury tax threshold so you’d have to think they’d do it.
Check out The Dream Shake.
Follow @PatrickHarrel
by Patrick Harrel on Nov 28, 2011 6:35 PM CST up reply actions
You might be on to something...
Let’s say Memphis matches 15 milllion (you know the smaller markets are going to drive up the price for Gasol) Moving forward, a small market Memphis franchise will have 52 million tied into 4 players, Gay, ZBo, Gasol, and Conley. If I was a betting man which I am, Gay is on his way out.
If you can feel them, they are real.
Doubt that.
His contract is massive.
"Hakeem couldn't kick your ass cuz you were too
close kissin his!"- Sir Charles to Kenny Smith.
by bone31crusher on Nov 28, 2011 5:41 PM CST up reply actions
Why are people forgetting about the amnesty clause?
My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased
No way they would use the amnesty clause on Gay
as opposed to trading him. no way.
If you can feel them, they are real.
Just saying there's options.
They did well without Rudy, I don’t see why they don’t test the waters, especially if it’s for a more complete player. If they got desperate they can amnesty, if they don’t need an immediate answer, you go ahead and test trade waters.
My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased
I feel like giving Gay the amnesty
is like trading Mario Williams cause you have Brooks Reed
"San Antonio is the best falling down team in the league"- Bill Worrell
by TheLastDynasty on Nov 28, 2011 8:31 PM CST up reply actions
I feel like I only know Mario Williams because I know he was good on the Texans.
But I don’t hear as much about him anymore. I’m a Bills fan so you must excuse my inability to focus on winning ways.
My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased
No worries (Brooks Reed replaced Williams after he got injured)
I just think despite the size of Gay’s contract, they won’t be willing to let him go so quickly after having him as a centerpiece for as long as they have.
"San Antonio is the best falling down team in the league"- Bill Worrell
by TheLastDynasty on Nov 28, 2011 8:47 PM CST up reply actions
It's really a situation of circumstance for me.
If you’re Memphis and your options are basically sink with him (Talent-wise, that much locked up in 4 players, you need wiggle room for the other 11 your roster holds), move him, or you’re kind of forced to cut him.
My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased
I do keep on forgetting about it.
What exactly is it again?
"Hakeem couldn't kick your ass cuz you were too
close kissin his!"- Sir Charles to Kenny Smith.
by bone31crusher on Nov 28, 2011 8:47 PM CST up reply actions
If the Gay contract can't be moved and it's killing their franchise, and they're against a wall...
They can cut Gay. Granted you get nothing for it but that mistake is off the books. If it means avoiding a Heat situation (Stocking a team with talent with virtually no money) without the benefit of the Heat situation (Tons of star power and a sexy city) small market teams with bad contracts may have to cut quality players.
My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased
Please, Gay is that extra offense
they could of used in the playoffs. He causes alot of attention by other teams defense. Combine his scoring with Randolph and Gasol and thats a lethal combo. Nene is no Hakeem but when you just had a 6’6 forward starting at a center and a over the hill Miller as your backup he is a major improvement. He has a good shot and post up game, but can improve on defense. We just hope patterson continues to excel on defense which will also help our team with Nene now blocking up some of the paint.
by since86rocketsfan on Nov 29, 2011 11:26 AM CST up reply actions
Ah the one relic from the lockout I hoped had passed like a kidney stone.
Nene isn’t even a topic of discussion here, might want to save that for where it’s relevant. As for Gay, the Grizzlies pushed several teams to the limit and offense wasn’t their problem, the OKC buzzsaw was their problem.
My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased
Time has passed by and u still
have no clue. Yes Nene is the topic if you are talking about a team that has 6’6 forward as the starting center and hopefully a cut Thabeet as our backup. We need a center and that has been our main piece missing since Yao went down. regardless if its Nene,dalembert, or Jordan the center is our main hole. The new nba shift is to pile up stars on a team, and gay is a star. Anybody in there right mind would agree that memphis would of loved having Gay healthy last playoffs.
by since86rocketsfan on Nov 29, 2011 3:41 PM CST up reply actions
We're going 'all out' on Nene?
Yuck.
I’m going to be pretty pissed if we end throwing a lot of money at him.
I’m with you, Mike. Overpaying DeAndre is the best move.
"Hakeem couldn't kick your ass cuz you were too
close kissin his!"- Sir Charles to Kenny Smith.
Sadly, to steal a big man from another team, you're going to HAVE to overpay
The key is to not just throw stupid money at them (i.e. Rudy Gay contract). I know Rudy isn’t a big man, just pointing out that his contract is UGLY.
I wouldn't mind overpaying DeAndre.
Still has plenty of room to grow, and he would give us the defensive presence in the paint with his freak athleticism and shot blocking.
"Hakeem couldn't kick your ass cuz you were too
close kissin his!"- Sir Charles to Kenny Smith.
by bone31crusher on Nov 28, 2011 3:03 PM CST up reply actions
Amnesty Clause can be used any time over the 6 year life of the CBA.
Offer stupid money, we can get rid of it at no penalty later.
My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased
From what I have heard BD
and correct me if i’m wrong, but the clause can only be used on players currently under contract. Not ones signed after the season starts.
"Listen here you beautiful bitch, I'm about to fuck you up with some truth" - Kenny Powers
It was in Tom's post and the Feigen article about how the amnesty clause impacts players.
I’m operating based off that, honestly.
My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased
Just throwin poop out there.
Guess we’ll have to wait and see.
"Listen here you beautiful bitch, I'm about to fuck you up with some truth" - Kenny Powers
See what sticks?
I’m looking forward to having you around.
My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased
I'm looking forward to us
deriding individuals with incredible feats of bullshit and frivolity! haha.
"Listen here you beautiful bitch, I'm about to fuck you up with some truth" - Kenny Powers
He's right
It only applies to current players, but it’s still nice to use in order to clear out cap room.
The Dream Shake ...on Twitter.
"I think girls are probably just better shooters." - Steve Novak
by Tom Martin on Nov 28, 2011 7:19 PM CST via iPhone app up reply actions
What happened to blind support of me no matter what stupid stuff I say, Tom!?
My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased
I can see them using it down the road
when we need to clear cap for an untradeable contract.
"Listen here you beautiful bitch, I'm about to fuck you up with some truth" - Kenny Powers
Eh I don't know if we have to overpay
I think a sign-and-trade with some of our pieces headed to LA would work for both sides.
Check out The Dream Shake.
Follow @PatrickHarrel
by Patrick Harrel on Nov 28, 2011 6:36 PM CST up reply actions
Or a much cheaper option you mentioned
is to…wait for it…draft one.
"Listen here you beautiful bitch, I'm about to fuck you up with some truth" - Kenny Powers
Any news on when the Trade Deadline will be?
by Carlos_HoustonSportsFanatic on Nov 28, 2011 2:37 PM CST reply actions
Initial reports I read placed it somewhere later than the all star game.
I’m thinking I read as late as March or something like that.
My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased
March is the target month right now.
The Dream Shake ...on Twitter.
"I think girls are probably just better shooters." - Steve Novak
I think we just continue the Re-Build not start over.
We have a young core but its not complete. We need to make at least 2 moves this year and they need to be for fairly young players at least 3 years before that 30 mark. The 2 players I like the most are restricted DeAndre or Gasol. While getting them will not be easy and will most likely mean overpaying the chances are greater than getting Howard. We will have to trade one of our power forwards and I do not want it to be Patterson. We should only trade Scola if it can get us a young real center. The only way we take an older player is if somebody becomes available because of the amnesty and we get them on the cheap. We still need to sign Chuck if the price is right but only for backup as we do every year.
While Nene is good the price will be too high.
If we are paying high we need to go slightly younger
After a lot of thought on this
I’d say no to Nene. He’s a nice player, so I’m not trying to knock him or make it seem like he’s garbage. Good low post player with some moves, and a good feel around the basket. I just feel like you need another great big man to pair him up with for a team to become legit with him. He’d probably get this team to the playoffs, but no real run or hope to win a series. You put it best in your post, “he’s a piece, not a star”. I don’t like the Dalembert idea either. Might as well just get a good look at Thabeet. Wow, I can’t believe I just said that.
by twinkilling0303 on Nov 28, 2011 4:10 PM CST reply actions
Point is
to get a player who can lead you to a championship. Nene is not the guy to tie up a bunch of money in because he isn’t.
"Listen here you beautiful bitch, I'm about to fuck you up with some truth" - Kenny Powers
Am I the only who thinks nene is overrated
I’m mean he’s about the size of a power forward, and he really doesn’t intimidate people from coming to the basket.
by TheDream34 on Nov 28, 2011 9:39 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
You're not alone in that.
I’ve been one of the three voices of dissent on here calling Nene out for being massively overrated. The general sentiment around TDS is that if you’re tall and slightly above average in talent, even if it is system created, is that you need to be an immediate franchise player and don Rockets red, sensibility need not apply.
My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased
BUT HE'S TALL
"Hakeem couldn't kick your ass cuz you were too
close kissin his!"- Sir Charles to Kenny Smith.
by bone31crusher on Nov 28, 2011 10:03 PM CST up reply actions
The fact that he is taller than 6'6" blinds a lot of people
Which is the only reason I wanted us to trade fro Biedrens for a minute right after the draft.
I think whether it's using the amnesty or trading away one of the more desirable pieces on the team
They are decisions better made mid-season rather than off season, better indicator of value then and clearer vision of what the draft pick would look like.
Took a quick glanced at the Free agency this year, outside of Gasol, I’m really not that interested in any centers. Nene is likely to be offer a lot of money because of the scarcity of decent 2 way centers, and I’m not interested in having cap space tied up over him. We do need a stop-gap center to start since none of what we got on roster is “Solid”, is Fabricio Oberto doing anything?
I’m just glad NBA is back and more interested in how we will utilize the players we have. How Morris fits into the team, will T-Will actually play, can Kyle Lowry sustain his performance from last year
If it were me, I’d go after D. Jordan…
… and if I didn’t get him, then start trading veterans for draft picks & rebuild through the draft…
.
I had to stop arguing with drunks, Steeler fans, and all other fools.
It was making my brick wall jealous...
.
Dedicated to the "Pride of the Steelers"
.
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