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Hold Steady: For Now, Rockets Fans Should Stay Positive

It's time we look at this Houston Rockets roster from a different perspective.

Lately, we've been caught up in "tanking" and "rebuilding" and all of that jazzy talk, but so far, we have yet to base any of that on one thing: talent. Instead, we've taken Daryl Morey's favorite term -- assets -- to an unhealthy extreme.

We need to stop talking about this roster in terms of how much a group of its players could bring Houston in a trade. That's not a fair form of evaluation. We're not solely looking at an unfinished roster. We're also looking at a group of unfinished players.

As Rockets fans, we hear quite a bit about assets, but not quite enough about the on-court quality of players. I suppose this is natural, given 1) The team's high tendency to make moves, and B) Its desire to acquire a star player using said "assets." It's fair to regurgitate what we're being fed. I get that.

Having said that, we've gone a little overboard. Keep in mind, folks, the season is still a month away and we've probably flipped opinions on this team at least five times over. Let's slow down, be patient and see what this roster gives us first, now another year into its progression.

I've caught myself taking a turn for the pessimistic a few times. I've dismissed Terrence Williams and Hasheem Thabeet a little too often (although come on, I've got a legitimate claim with the latter). Hell, I've readily taken it to Jordan Hill, and as badly as Jordan Hill has played at times, he's still early in his development, as difficult to believe as that is. But I've also seemed to disregard a handful of other important facts:

Star-divide

1. The Rockets Are Incredibly Young

Number of players on Houston's roster over 30 years old: One.

Number of years separating this individual from his thirtieth birthday: One.

This man: Luis Scola, whose below-the-rim game bodes well for a long tenure.

Other notable ages: Patrick Patterson is 22. Marcus Morris is 22. Chase Budinger is 23. Terrence Williams and Jordan Hill are 24. Kyle Lowry is 25. So is Goran Dragic. Courtney Lee is 26. Kevin Martin is 28.

2. The Rockets Aren't Just Young...They're Also Quite Good

We can't continue to take Houston's winning seasons for granted. The Rockets' young players have played very well in limited roles. That's an exciting thought, if you really consider it.

Patterson showed promise as a versatile two-way player in just his rookie year. Lee has the same two-way potential, as do Williams and Marcus Morris. The others? They've also shown flashes without being given a consistent chance. And that's just the bench players. The rotation guys also got the job done, with Scola being the lone 30-year-old.

A good number of teams with cores these young see nothing but losing seasons. A good number of teams with winning records have much older cores. Meanwhile, Houston is winning ballgames with a young core. In other words, the Rockets are nicely prepped for improvement not from just one player, but across the board.

Many teams have that one young guy that they're hoping will replace an older veteran in the future. Houston has maybe seven of those young, let's-see-how-he-develops players, most of whom have already seen significant playing time early in their careers.

3. The Rockets Are Full Of Good Contracts

This is where we can look at this team in terms of what it brings to the Asset Table. Should a few of the youngsters not pan out, they aren't owed a ton of money, and this should allow the front office to be flexible with its dealings. This isn't a reason to give cheap players undue credit or provide an excuse for when they fail. I'm merely pointing out the added bonus of how this current roster was constructed.

A Different Viewpoint

If you take away anything from this post, start here.

Houston doesn't have a star. That's the reality. It's very possible none of the young players will turn into stars either, but that doesn't mean they won't become very good players. The problem? Available playing time and distribution of minutes. So many of these players could soon begin to deserve significant minutes, except there likely won't be enough minutes to allot.

Morey's primary task isn't to acquire a star player due to a talent deficiency. This team has plenty of talent. What Morey must do is re-shape the roster so that the best talent is able to play enough minutes to make the greatest impact possible. This may require bringing in a star player, sure, but let's be sure that PT distribution -- for the most part -- is the primary reason for the need.

(For more on this, take a look at Bill Simmons' "Law of Too Many Guys." It's not the end-all-be-all analysis on the subject, but it addresses the issue nicely).

When you think about the strategy, it's unbelievably simple and almost goes without saying. But I think we've lost insight into what Morey is trying to do, and we've given up on a team that is still built to compete and to do so at an increasingly successful rate. If Morey is able to snag a star, that move will represent a large boost not necessarily in talent, but instead in organization and distribution, allowing Houston to play the most efficient team ball possible.

So, until that happens, let's enjoy all of the bubbling potential at hand and stop worrying how high the ceiling of that realized potential should be. We can guess where this team is headed -- perhaps to the back of the lottery, again -- but we don't know for certain. Understand? We just don't know. Not with this group of players, not with the number of young talents and wild cards on this roster, many of whom were once thought to be prime NBA prospects.

Be patient. The talent level is going to be high enough to keep the Rockets competitive, both on the floor and in the league's suddenly liberalized trade talks. And say these young players do get better. Say they come around, even just a little. All it takes is a flash here and there for another team to take notice, and for Houston to suddenly earn a better shot at pulling off a significant trade. Why shouldn't that happen?

Get Dwight Howard and Chris Paul out of your heads. The Rockets can trade for good-to-great players not named Dwight Howard or Chris Paul -- that's still allowed. The reality is that Houston isn't a favorite to land either player. The Nets, Clippers and Knicks all stand in the way, and those teams simply have a better shot given their market alone. If Houston lands Howard or Paul, fantastic: We'll all be pleasantly surprised. I'm telling you that likely won't happen, regardless of what Daryl Morey attempts to string together. If you can't get those two guys off your minds, you should at least be praying the youngsters show some swagger this year, enough to perhaps gauge a little more interest.

When we know this team is not going to work, we'll know. It'll be painfully obvious. We'll be ten times more adamant for change. But as far as I can tell, that time has yet to come.

(Kudos if you caught the obnoxious music reference in the headline.)

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TDS Writer Roundtable 3 on 5

May 2012 by BD34 - 112 comments

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Well written

Sound judgment. As a Pacers fan, it gets tough being mired in the middle, as happened in Indy for years. I felt the same way about the Rockets, and while it appears that they are, you’ve provided a reasonable argument otherwise.

Good luck. I hope it’s a good season in Houston.

by Mr_Indy on Nov 30, 2011 3:59 AM CST via iPhone app reply actions  

+ve

last year the rockets only had +ve record when playing on Mondays and Tuesdays.

The content of the text above is provided for information purposes only. No claim is made as to the accuracy or authenticity of the content. The troll does not accept any liability to any person for the information or advice (or the use of such information or advice) which is provided in the text above.

by craigj007 on Nov 30, 2011 6:27 AM CST reply actions  

Eh, the winning at a surprising rate thing rubbed me a little wrong.

We’re 100% agreed on the idea that they have a lot of in house talent in need of development. I think potentially are solutions are on the roster already but the winning thing. The record analysis I put in my post, the abysmal record against divisional opponents and the extra weight attached to that this season, seems to err more on the side of the Rockets checking out what they have in house and being a player at the deadline or after the shortened season.

We win, against the East, which we’re not a part of, at a good clip, we win against the West about as much as we lose, and we get our asses kicked by the Southwest.

My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased

by BD34 on Nov 30, 2011 7:02 AM CST reply actions  

Yea, which weighs heavy on our schedule.

My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased

by BD34 on Nov 30, 2011 12:09 PM CST up reply actions  

But it should be agreed

The SW IS the toughest division isn’t it?? Houston would be the “Timberwolves/Clippers” of our division and we USUALLY don’t have a LOSING record.

by bigalshouseoflove on Nov 30, 2011 7:36 AM CST reply actions  

No need to agree, especially in a lockout shortened season.

You see, our 16 games against the SW this year is weighed heavier than any other year because we have 16 less games to play. That severely losing record to our division is going to hurt us quite a bit.

My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased

by BD34 on Nov 30, 2011 7:57 AM CST up reply actions  

I don’t agree since I believe we are better than New Orleans

by VBG on Nov 30, 2011 8:30 AM CST up reply actions  

Our 1-3 record against them last year begs to differ

How many Biletnikoffs does he have? NOT TWO!
Was too far to huck a beer at a Stro’s player as per bone’s request. Jess (girlfriend) said I was too far, I said challenge accepted, a security guard said guess again.-BD34

by ak2themax on Nov 30, 2011 9:04 AM CST up reply actions  

Ok? Our H2H record isn’t favorable, so? 4 games can go in any direction. All of the games were close IIRC.

New Orleans started teh season on a tear and the Rockets started the season terribly. Post all star break the Rockets played better than New Orleans and that’s what I’m basing it on.

Also, IMO, Rockets have better young talent than New Orleans that could grow.

Also, yeah we’re in the toughest division but that doesn’t make us the Timberwolves. We’re still competitive and anything can happen in close games.

by VBG on Nov 30, 2011 9:26 AM CST up reply actions  

Try to justify it any way you want, the fact remains we were the SW division's bitch last year.

My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased

by BD34 on Nov 30, 2011 9:30 AM CST up reply actions  

Yeah, I guess we were 5-11 in our division.

But we were in almost in every single game and seemed to improve at the end of the year.

And while the playoffs in the NBA aren’t as much of a crapshoot as other sports, the Mavs proved this year that if you get hot, you can go all the way even if you aren’t the best team in the NBA.

by VBG on Nov 30, 2011 9:44 AM CST up reply actions  

The Mavericks weren't a surprise team. They are a consistently strong team.

They are a veteran team, they have a potent offense and a disciplined defense, and have a battery of clutch performers. I don’t know why you insist that they were some form of hidden gem.

We were in almost every game at the end of the year, but what was the result? Plenty of losses and we came back to earth.

My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased

by BD34 on Nov 30, 2011 9:53 AM CST up reply actions  

They were a complete surprise team. The majority of analysts/public had them losing to Portland in the first round.

Everyone had them losing to the Lakers in the second round.

It was about 50-50 with the Thunder (who beat the Grizzlies who were a sort of hidden game in 7. one of the games was a triple overtime)

Most people thought they would lose in the finals.

Absolutely no one had them winning the West or even making the Western Conference Finals. So yes they were a surprise team. In hindsight it all came together but absolutely no one believed that they would contend for a ring.

I don’t understand how losing a close game is coming back to Earth? Close games are often a toss up. In 2009-10 Kobe hit like 6 game winners. In 2010-11 he hit like none or one.

by VBG on Nov 30, 2011 10:14 AM CST up reply actions  

Coming to earth: Our red hot start to the second half flared out and the law of averages kicked in, we lost plenty to temper winning a lot.

As for your Mavericks discussion, analysts get it wrong all the time and the public is in general pretty ignorant. The sad fact is the Mavericks have been consistently good for quite some time now and ignoring that fact is wildly irresponsible.

My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased

by BD34 on Nov 30, 2011 10:17 AM CST up reply actions  

Yea the Mavs have been a

pretty good regualr season team, and then they choke in the playoffs like they did to Golden State. Dirk finally stepped up this year and put the team on his back, unlike many other playoff performances. Chandler blocking off the paint and getting rebounds played a part as well making Dirks job easier.

by since86rocketsfan on Nov 30, 2011 10:24 AM CST up reply actions  

But they have Dirk

an elite player. They finally put a guy in the middle to help him out. For years they’ve been a really good team.

by twinkilling0303 on Nov 30, 2011 10:26 AM CST up reply actions  

Chandler was fantastic and everything came together for the Mavs in the playoffs just like everything fell apart for the Lakers.

The funny thing is statistically Dirk’s best postseason was in 2009 when they lost in the 2nd round. The rest of his team sucked. Sure he became more “clutch” but he was a better player when they didn’t win.

by VBG on Nov 30, 2011 10:31 AM CST up reply actions  

Oh please. The only reason people say that is because they won. Winning is the ultimate elixer.

People who have followed the NBA like crazy didn’t think the Mavs would win.

So your argument is the Mavs were good despite everyone saying they weren’t and some teams actually WANTING to play the Mavs in the first round of the playoffs?

by VBG on Nov 30, 2011 10:28 AM CST up reply actions  

I think someone's just upset another Texas team won.

My argument is the Mavs are good. Period.

My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased

by BD34 on Nov 30, 2011 10:34 AM CST up reply actions  

What? I live in Philadelphia. I was rooting for the Mavs as I hate the Lakers, Heat and don’t like the Thunder (I dislike media darlings, Thunder and Bulls).

No one is saying that the Mavs are bad. They’re good.

But if you think that they were on the shortlist of NBA championship potential winners at the start of the playoffs last year, you’re delusional.

by VBG on Nov 30, 2011 10:38 AM CST up reply actions  

Apparently not delusional

I think a lot of people could see them making a run at the title, especially after the second half of the season. At the start of the playoffs, I thought they would get to the Finals.

by twinkilling0303 on Nov 30, 2011 11:26 AM CST up reply actions  

I must have missed it. I didn’t see/read anything before the playoffs where people believed the Mavs were legit title contendors.

After they were ripped apart by the Lakers near the end of the last season, no one was on the Mavs bandwagon.

Hell George Karl WANTED the Mavs in the first round of the playoffs instead of the Thunder.

by VBG on Nov 30, 2011 11:32 AM CST up reply actions  

Many fans who know basketball

don’t work for ESPN or any other publications. At the beginning of the playoffs, it was pretty easy to see the Mavs making a deep run. Lakers weren’t looking very good and the Mavs were on a roll. Deep bench and a new defensive minded team, all Dirk had to do was be Dirk. Now at the beginning of the season, of course nobody saw it coming. And if every coach wanted what George Karl wanted, they’d end up disappointing their team every year.

by twinkilling0303 on Nov 30, 2011 11:53 AM CST up reply actions  

Interesting. Because I read a lot of stuff about basketball (not just ESPN) and no where did I see Dallas as a solid title favorite. Also none of my friends really thought of Dallas as a favorite.

That’s why to me the Dallas run was quite surprising. I’m curious where all the people who believed in the Mavs before the playoffs were.

by VBG on Nov 30, 2011 12:30 PM CST up reply actions  

I would love to know

where all the people are that thought they weren’t one of 3 teams with a real chance to make the Finals. Lakers, Mavs and Thunder. I’m pretty sure that was everyone’s short list. Everyone wanted to play the Spurs and no other legit teams.

by twinkilling0303 on Nov 30, 2011 1:14 PM CST up reply actions  

Interesting. Lakers, Thunder is what I always heard.

Spurs had it tough because of Ginobili being out.

But I never heard the Mavs name in the same breath. I heard the Mavs name in the Portland, Denver breath.

by VBG on Nov 30, 2011 2:47 PM CST up reply actions  

Well the Mavs were in the same breath

as the Lakers and Thunder. Portland and Denver don’t have the kind of players the Lakers, Thunder and Mavs have. Anyone who would think different that is just plain wrong.

by twinkilling0303 on Nov 30, 2011 2:54 PM CST up reply actions  

Ok So I went through all the predictions I could find.

NONE had the Mavs reaching the Western Conference Finals.

The Mavs were also THE MOST POPULAR FIRST ROUND UPSET PICK.

I would love to see someone on the internet who predicted the Mavs going deep and winning a championship

by VBG on Nov 30, 2011 6:23 PM CST up reply actions  

This is like beating a dead horse

Nothing changes the fact that the organization had a plan and stuck with that plan. They knew what they had and won a title. The closest thing this team has in common with the Mavs, is that we have a player (Martin) that is a solid 2 guard. Just because the people on ESPN and every other predictions you found got it all wrong, I bet they were singing their praises while they were rolling through the playoffs. Probably with comments like “we’ve all been waiting for this out of Dirk, and now he has the players around him to do it”. If they or you or anybody else couldn’t see the Mavs were a legit contender, doesn’t really matter. They were and they are. I would love to get to the point where I could at least make up some bullshit case that the Rockets are just that.

by twinkilling0303 on Nov 30, 2011 6:42 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

That's because

nobody thought Chandler would have a career year, and Jason Terry would have the best playoffs of his career.

The Mavs won by pairing a top ten player with a DPOY candidate. The Rockets don’t have either of those. I’m bullish on the Rockets, but even if everyone matches their career year, they’re not going to the Finals.

by mr. eggplant on Nov 30, 2011 10:40 AM CST up reply actions  

Our team build is completely different to the Mavs and I agree, our current roster won’t make the Finals or anything.

All I’m saying is that once you’re in the playoffs its possible to get hot and overachieve.

by VBG on Nov 30, 2011 10:45 AM CST up reply actions  

Awww

Now you know BD, that more then any other sport, the NBA talking heads are only concerned with three or four teams. Fortunately for the those D-bags, and to an extent the NBA, most fans drink that shit.

"Listen here you beautiful bitch, I'm about to fuck you up with some truth" - Kenny Powers

by A.J. G on Nov 30, 2011 4:29 PM CST up reply actions  

Before the playoffs the Lakers, Spurs, Thunder, Nuggets and Blazers were all thought to have as good or a better shot of winning than the Mavs.

by VBG on Nov 30, 2011 10:17 AM CST up reply actions  

Thought

by who? The paid spokesmen on ESPN or CNNSI?

"Listen here you beautiful bitch, I'm about to fuck you up with some truth" - Kenny Powers

by A.J. G on Nov 30, 2011 4:29 PM CST up reply actions  

Yeah, the ones who watch more basketball than any one of us.

by VBG on Nov 30, 2011 6:15 PM CST up reply actions  

They get paid to watch basketball and regurgitate what sells.

They don’t get paid to think, they get paid to rate well.

My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased

by BD34 on Nov 30, 2011 10:23 PM CST up reply actions  

When the game is on the line,

the team that makes the stop and makes the shot wins. If you dont have a seven footer protecting the rim,getting rebounds, and you have an average defense, you lose those close games at the end. This played a major role for us last year loosing many close games like you said. If we address the defense then we start to win those close games.

by since86rocketsfan on Nov 30, 2011 10:06 AM CST up reply actions  

Agreed. You need defense and a 7 footer to build a defense around. Especially in the 4th quarter (when we were terrible defensively) when teams are more aggressive and constantly driving to the basket.

But if we do get someone to protect the rim, I don’t see why we can’t make the playoffs and make some noise. Sure we won’t be a favorite but it will still be interesting.

by VBG on Nov 30, 2011 10:16 AM CST up reply actions  

Good points i felt

if we would of just got Dalembert when we traded Jeramine taylor instead of another useless pick, his defense would of won some of those close games, and helped us get in the playoffs, cause Yao was out after the fifth game of the year.

by since86rocketsfan on Nov 30, 2011 10:20 AM CST up reply actions  

No i am not saying straight up

i was saying reworking that deal to get Dalembert. We have made many deals with Sac, so they could of worked with us, plus they had Cousins, and Thompson.

by since86rocketsfan on Nov 30, 2011 10:32 AM CST up reply actions  

Good job Tom.

I am excited about the season. We have a lot of young talent that has shown potential and as you pointed out we have only 1 player thats 30 years old. This is why I hate the talk of blowing up and rebuilding. We HAVE been rebuilding. We have some young players that can break out at any time. The lockout has cut into the time for McHale to work with our young bigs and we are in the toughest division which will be a bigger factor in a shorter season. We need to be patient and give them a chance. We have no bad contracts and the only position that we do not have multiple potential players is a real 7Ft center. The key word is POTENTIAL but we just need our rotation players from last season to keep growing and just 1 or 2 of the others to breakout. If we could just get a young big without having to give up too much. Nene is not the answer because while not old he is already 29 and will have too high a price. I think a better answer is Gasol or DeAndre. They are both resticted free agents and will not be easy to get. We will have to overpay for this position but we have the money to do so.
So while we are not a there yet we have a start. So I hope we resign Chuck and get a young 7ft player. But no matter what I am excited and am ready to watch the Rockets play some ball.

by arnold p on Nov 30, 2011 8:35 AM CST reply actions  

what I would do

If I were GM I’d try to swing a sign and trade for Gasol. Young, high ceiling, and decent on both sides of the floor. Every one outside of Lowry, PPatt, and Martin should be available in that pursuit. See what you can do about acquiring draft picks, even if that means taking on salary. If you could pick up Biedrins (or someone of the like) with a first (GS has wanted to shed that contract for a while) you set yourself up nicely. I’d also look at the Pacers and see if they make P. George available (he’s a redundant talent for them).

by Christopher Dion Harris on Nov 30, 2011 9:30 AM CST via iPhone app reply actions  

Highly doubt Marc Gasol leaves Memphis though. He would give great toughness and would make us a solid playoff team though.

by VBG on Nov 30, 2011 9:45 AM CST up reply actions  

We will have to give up something to get a young center.

For the right deal I can see it being Scola or Martin. I just hope its not Lowry or Patterson.

by arnold p on Nov 30, 2011 9:53 AM CST up reply actions  

Good post,

and people should understand you can not be that pretty good team that you mention us being and then try to to tank a season. We don’t know what Morey is planning, we found out last year after Yao went down, that the fo did not think we should go and get a replacement for him, and that we should notbmake any meaningful moves. I guess after Morey’s many attempts to get us a star and high draft pick and failures, rebuilding was his only option. Now they have switched back to there stance we can contend so like it should of been last year after Yao went down, getting a center is now the main agenda

by since86rocketsfan on Nov 30, 2011 9:56 AM CST reply actions  

Being a center stopped being a priority?

You’re making baseless accusations that don’t fit anywhere. “Now they have switched back to their stance we can contend…” we didn’t. We’ve always been looking to work and get/develop a center. There’s nothing new at all. Again, no one said anything about tanking, developing younger talent and trying to net some more/draft picks isn’t tanking, it’s being intelligent about building a franchise…

My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased

by BD34 on Nov 30, 2011 10:03 AM CST up reply actions  

Like always you feel you have to

respond to me, you must be one of those people i mentioned. We did contend, we almost got a playoff birth, the Cavs and Toronto they did not contend, we did not make the right moves to help our team and coach make it there. And no we have not been looking to get and develop a center. That was Yao, and he had already developed into a great player. After this last injury the organization finally made the choice that Yao was not going to be our franchise center anymore. So now it is time to get a good center, not to try to develop a bust. And how many more draft picks do wee need, you must want a whole team of draft picks.

by since86rocketsfan on Nov 30, 2011 10:16 AM CST up reply actions  

Nene is the most complete center out

of him Dalembert, and Jordan. Do your homework Nene is a good center, just not great. His jumpshot, and post up game, and total offense is far surperior to Dalembert and Jordan. His defense is average, where that is there strong points. I never said him by hiself would get us a ring, but he gives us a much better shot then having hayes, or that scrub Thabeet at center. No shit i have been saying for years we have to have a star, and its been stated throughout our franchises existence we have mainly made trades to get our star players. But you admitted we have second tier talent, so how do we have a bad season with good players, it does not pan out. Our plan for years was to add good players with Yao, and Mcgrady, we dont have either player anymore but we still have good talent, so tanking is not an option. And thats why the front office swithced there approach from rebuilding to try and get us a center and an allstar. What you need to understand is this is not football, if the colts loose there last five games they get Luck, we can finish last and are still not promised a top five pick. We have lottery balls now because the nba believed some teams in the past tanked games for a high pick and they do not want that to happen again.

by since86rocketsfan on Dec 1, 2011 8:53 AM CST up reply actions  

So we need to fix our defense in the middle, but Nene is the guy to go after because he's offense?

Right… Perfectly sensible.

My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased

by BD34 on Dec 1, 2011 9:39 AM CST up reply actions  

No genius he is a

7 footer, who will block off the paint, get blocks and rebounds. I said dalembert and Jordan are better defenders, i did not say he was garbage on d. You always make your one statement and when some one with sense replys back with facts you cant respond back. I have been saying since last year when Yao went down, that we need a center. And now what is our plan by the front office, get a center, so who really knows what they are talking about. You can try and get about twenty percent of your information from a media outlet, but to really get basketball knowledge that comes from years of watching games, and listening and understanding what the commentators comments, past nba greats, and what old coaches share.

by since86rocketsfan on Dec 1, 2011 10:03 AM CST up reply actions  

Really? You uncovered some major secret that the Rockets needed a Center after Yao went down?

I’ll get on Twitter for Daryl Morey to give you a front office position, you clearly have some fine insight into the organization. I mean, I’ve never played a day in my life, never watched old NBA games, wasn’t someone who had access to archive footage of the NBA, or even was aware that a sport existed where you push a ball on the floor and throw it in a basket. I mean, I just stumbled on here one day and started typing about leprechauns and Alex P. Keaton and happened to get bumped up to a contributing writer spot on sheer comedy alone.

I am humbled. You are clearly superior and no doubt well endowed!

My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased

by BD34 on Dec 1, 2011 10:14 AM CST up reply actions  

As you usual do

you have no facts to combat with so tell your corny jokes. Anybody with sense can tell that your replys make no sense. No i dont have no inside scoop on the next rockets move, and what they need i just use my basketball knowledge and some common sense to predict things, like us being in eed of a center. You still believe Thabeet will be our future center. You thought Ariza is better then Lee and did not like that deal.. You said AB was better then Lowry and would not be a problem last year after Lowry got his deal. You also would never give Lowry any credit last year, saying that AB could only play good as a starter, and that he still should start. I said i would not mind seeing martin play the three and Lee at the two, to give Lee more minutes, you siad that would hurt martin’s game. Even after many injuries to Yao and Mcgrady you still wanted us to go after injury prone oden and Prz. You were wrong on all those cases, so you do not have to admitt i know more, the proof has always been there.

by since86rocketsfan on Dec 1, 2011 10:30 AM CST up reply actions  

Nene

is not going to block off the paint. I don’t know where people get that stuff. He’s exactly like Scola on D, just taller. You can shoot over him because he’s not going to come out on you, and you can roll to the basket any time you want. Birdman and to a lesser extent Kenyon Martin were the ones protecting the basket. Nene has averaged 1 block a game the last two years, so lets not exaggerate things. In Thabeet’s rookie season he averaged 1.3 blocks and 13 minutes per game.

by twinkilling0303 on Dec 1, 2011 11:48 AM CST up reply actions  

I'm grateful you pointed out Thabeet's BPG and minutes stat.

A little more proof that he’s worth kicking the tires in if you can help him out a bit.

My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased

by BD34 on Dec 1, 2011 11:56 AM CST up reply actions  

Absolutely

He needs to be given a huge chance this season. The upside is still there. I think people hear the words “Nene” and “Center” in the same sentence and they go nuts.

by twinkilling0303 on Dec 1, 2011 12:00 PM CST up reply actions  

Nene is a big body that

will block off the paint. The main thing is we have someone tall enough to clog the paint,get rebounds and challenge shots. Its no way you can get a block every defensive possession, challenging there shot or making them change there shot is very valuable. And you can challenge guys shots more with a taller player then 6’6. You said he does not come on you, but besides the Gasol’s,Amare its not many centers that can hit that midrange shot anyway You compare Nene to Scola, please tell me when Scola dunks, Nene plays above the rim Scola under.Scola has little defense and can’t bang bodies down low like Nene. Nene is way more physical and will try to dunk on you, Scola finishes softer trying to always lay it up, they are only similiar in that they have a good shot. .Yes birdman and Martin are atlethic shotblockers,which they would be on any team as Martin has been with Cincy,NJ, and Den. And you too give praise to Thabeet for avg. one block a game. Thats a good stat if he wasn’t a number two pick.How many points a game that year did he avg, how about how many boards a game did he get that year. The bottomline is Memphis gave him chance after chance and still sent him to the d league.

by since86rocketsfan on Dec 1, 2011 12:21 PM CST up reply actions  

We were talking about defense

comparing Nene to Scola. Also, there are plenty of big men who can hit midrange jumpers. Having a big body doesn’t mean you can block off the paint, actually it’s impossible. Shaq has been the fattest guy around and it didn’t stop teams from repeatedly going to the basket. The point is he’s not a great shot blocker, he’s not a great defender, and he’s mostly valuable because of how efficient he is around the basket on offense. Hopefully he gets overpaid by someone other than the Rockets. Now let’s get to the Thabeet issue. You’re 1000% wrong. Thabeet wasn’t given a chance. He’s averaged 13 and 8 minutes a game the past 2 years. His rookie year he averaged 3 points, 3.6 rebounds, and 1.3 blocks in only 13 minutes…it’s respectable, and a small sample size. I’m not going to put all the stats on here, but go to basketball reference and look up his rookie season. Go look at all the games he started and got anywhere from 11-35 minutes. The blocks and rebounds are there.

by twinkilling0303 on Dec 1, 2011 12:46 PM CST up reply actions  

Nene is a center so he

will guard other centers, so lets not try to add in power forwards, which yes there are many that have range. Having a big body does mean you block off the paint, because a player can’t go straight thru you.hayes is one of the best at using his body to draw fouls by getting to the spot . Nene has pretty good footwork and can improve his defense. The main thing is he can draw double teams which gives us an advantage. Memphis did not give Thabeet a chance, are you serious they selected him number two in the draft. There plan was for Gasol and Thabeet to be the future frontcourt for years, so how did he not get a chance. Randolph came in and produced, and had a great year last year, its about the better player winning the position. If Thabeet could not do anything but dunk and block in college they knew he would need work. You just cant invest to much time on a player not showing any signs.

by since86rocketsfan on Dec 1, 2011 1:02 PM CST up reply actions  

Because he was drafted 2nd

means he was given a chance? They didn’t play him, don’t know how else to put it. Also, players don’t go straight thru any bodies unless you’re just terrible. Guys that protect the paint usually comes from the weak side and help defense. A lot of “big bodies” that can make sure someone doesn’t go thru them one on one. Hayes gets to those spots without having a big body. The team obviously needs someone taller. Just not someone with little impact on defense that will get paid 17million a year.

by twinkilling0303 on Dec 1, 2011 1:08 PM CST up reply actions  

Twinkilling is twin-killing it today.

I’m bestowing the honor I received from Mike to you.

My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased

by BD34 on Dec 1, 2011 1:10 PM CST up reply actions  

There's a million other points I could make

but honestly it’s getting tiring. Hopefully Nene signs somewhere else quickly so I never have to discuss this again.

by twinkilling0303 on Dec 1, 2011 1:13 PM CST up reply actions  

I'm a little pro since86 on this big man debate..

im not in favor of spending max money on a C, and I’m all about developing someone young. I just believe that HT is un-coordinated, has slow reaction time, and terrible footwork. If you find someone with his size entering college, you invest every second you get with this guy and develop him. However at this point, you either have it or you don’t. The NBA is too quick for him.

If you can feel them, they are real.

by jake_471 on Dec 1, 2011 1:19 PM CST up reply actions  

I think honestly you fall more in the Twin/BD camp.

We all agree we need a Center and we all agree it’s dumb and reckless to assume that spending max money on an older guy just because he’s tall is just plain stupid. Nene won’t come cheap and he won’t fix anything long term and his presence doesn’t intimidate anyone.

Where we diverge is that Twin and I think it’s smarter to see what you have on the 5mil investment before throwing it away rather than spending 15+ mil on an investment that gets you something mediocre.

It’s like having a car in the garage for years. You hope the engine fires and you know it could be awesome or it could be a waste, but it’s yours and it’s worth a shot. I’d rather not go out and spend BMW money for a Chevy Cobalt just so I don’t have to see what’s in the garage already.

My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased

by BD34 on Dec 1, 2011 1:33 PM CST up reply actions  

If the NBA wasn't too quick for Tree Rollins and Bill Wennington

it’s not too quick for Thabeet.

Honestly, he looked so bad when they rolled him out that he never saw daylight again, basically. They forgot that with the exception of like 4 guys ever, rookie centers just look bad.

"Each in turn... volunteered his suggestions, his invaluable suggestions."

Twitter - xiane1
The Dreamshake

by Xiane on Dec 2, 2011 12:24 AM CST up reply actions  

But

there are plenty of big bodies in the NBA who are tall enough to do the things you mentioned, and yet they do not. Nene is the best option out there, compared to the rest of the talent at the C available. However, he is not worth a max contract, or fat money in general. Just my opinion.

"Listen here you beautiful bitch, I'm about to fuck you up with some truth" - Kenny Powers

by A.J. G on Dec 1, 2011 11:56 PM CST up reply actions  

No height with current team...

micro all the stats you want… But what about the # of shots altered because of Nene or a different guy than Chuch Hayes, and the # of times guards wouldn’t penetrate/opposting teams settle for jumpers because of Nene or a different guy than Chuck Hayes.

If you can feel them, they are real.

by jake_471 on Dec 1, 2011 12:45 PM CST up reply actions  

Look until Thabeet can make the roster

and the not the d league one, he cannot be counted on to do anything for our team. Hill was pretty inconsistent, but i did see improvement with him, and parts well he played well. If we have a good chance at getting one of the three centers i would just cut thabeet and use that five million. Yes, you believe that Thabeet someone that cant stay on the roster deserves what Lowry gets. That five mill could be spent on improving the roster. hayes is a big guy just not tall, his legs are really big. Yes coming from the weak side with help defense is something i hope our new center can do, whats your point. You and your cheerleader have no clue.

by since86rocketsfan on Dec 1, 2011 1:14 PM CST up reply actions  

Apparently Daryl Morey thinks Thabeet deserves what Lowry gets

you know…since he’s the one that traded for him knowing what his contract was. I’d rather pay Thabeet what Lowry makes than pay Nene what Lebron ****** James makes. But I guess you have to pay extra when you have big enough legs to block the entire paint. I have a Clue and Clue Classic Edition, I got enough Clue to solve all vacant murders in Baltimore.

by twinkilling0303 on Dec 1, 2011 1:20 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

Yea and it for sure aint you, so every deal

Morey has made was great. I like Morey and he has pulled out some great moves,Scola,Martin,Lowry,Lee, and drafting patterson,Bud, but we lost in the deal we made to memphis. When you make that trade you start then and decide if it was a good one, and battier played well for them in the regular season and playoffs, and hit a game winning shot. Coach A sent him straight to the d league and did not even play him when the season was over. Wannabe Melvin Williams

by since86rocketsfan on Dec 1, 2011 1:26 PM CST up reply actions  

Coach A also shat on most of the young talent on this team until he had no alternative.

But that’ll get downplayed.

My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased

by BD34 on Dec 1, 2011 1:35 PM CST up reply actions  

That's a lot of murders.

Being that I live in DC some of them find their way over here… And wind up robbing you at your doorstep. I live in VA now.

My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased

by BD34 on Dec 1, 2011 1:34 PM CST up reply actions  

What can I say

I’m a regular Sherlock Holmes, except for the homosexual undertones

by twinkilling0303 on Dec 1, 2011 1:36 PM CST up reply actions  

I messed up

Should’ve said…I’m a regular Omar from the Wire, except for the homosexual tendencies.

by twinkilling0303 on Dec 1, 2011 1:39 PM CST up reply actions  

Im still in Houston

on the Northwest side in Acres Homes. I have never said give him a max we may have to pay more then 11 or 12 but not what Wade or lebron gets.Regardless what he did coach A overachieved with the injuries. Melvin Williams is an old gangster out of Maryland, he played alittle in the hbo hit show the Wire. I am done for the day.

by since86rocketsfan on Dec 1, 2011 1:40 PM CST up reply actions  

Could you extend the day's lockout to the season?

My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased

by BD34 on Dec 1, 2011 1:44 PM CST up reply actions  

Can you stop cheerleading and

make your own facts instead of riding coatails.He made some good points, jake made some good points but what did you bring.

by since86rocketsfan on Dec 1, 2011 1:48 PM CST up reply actions  

Front page articles, numbers analysis, groundwork points that are reflected by commenters

nothing much really. You just don’t like what I’m saying so you forget how much I actually do.

My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased

by BD34 on Dec 1, 2011 1:56 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

hey, i grew up near you...

I grew up in forrest pines TC Jester and Pinemont.

If you can feel them, they are real.

by jake_471 on Dec 1, 2011 2:00 PM CST up reply actions  

Thabeet is tall.

If that is all you’re looking for, is someone to stand in the way, I’m sure we can scrounge several of those up for the minimum.

"Listen here you beautiful bitch, I'm about to fuck you up with some truth" - Kenny Powers

by A.J. G on Dec 1, 2011 11:57 PM CST up reply actions  

Blocking the lane is one thing

being able to challenge or change a shot without fouling is another thing. Being able to use what you have is another, his basketball iq is very small. Where Chandler has no solid post moves and is also limited on the offensive end , he still knows how to get in position to recieve alot of alleys, and putbacks.

by since86rocketsfan on Dec 3, 2011 11:43 AM CST up reply actions  

I'd like to point out just how non-committal Denver has been to defense in recent years.

For some reason, I keep telling myself Nene can become a good defender in a system that doesn’t play the clock (i.e. “If we shoot more, we win more, so screw defense”)

The Dream Shake ...on Twitter.
"I think girls are probably just better shooters." - Steve Novak

by Tom Martin on Dec 1, 2011 4:58 PM CST up reply actions  

I understand how the lottery works

that’s why I said I wasn’t an advocate of tanking.

"Listen here you beautiful bitch, I'm about to fuck you up with some truth" - Kenny Powers

by A.J. G on Dec 1, 2011 11:52 PM CST up reply actions  

Gortat,etc

We do know Orlando called and asked for Martin and offered Gortat in return.(Because of salary matching other players would have been involved,but these were the key players in the talk.)
Morey turned it down for reasons we can speculate about,but he did not do so because he didn’t think he needed a Center.(Esp not when his “wonks” own analysis said having a true C last yr would have been worth at least 4-5 wins.)

And whatever eventually results,Morey had a rather puzzling interview w/Sikma for the Head Coaching job-where even Sikma was shocked they interviewed him-and then selected McHale as his head coach. Sikma was the coach responsible for Rocket bigs and McHale’s coaching cred is his work w/big men. So Morey evidentally has the bigs firmly in mind.

Two summers ago,McHale was doing commentary on a bunch of the Summer League games and during the Rocket games he did he would talk non-stop about Jordan Hill,about what he wanted to see from him,how well or poorly he was performing. Hill was the player he was almost obsessing over,to a degree he he wouldn’t do for other players in other games except Wall.
Before the lock-out,Hill was the one player everyone was talking about having dramatically improved in the work-outs.
Last yr Hill showed flashes of being very good,coupled w/a steady stream of WTF is he thinking. I wouldn’t be surprised in Plan C(or D) is rolling w/Hill as the Center,to find out if he will live up to his talent or needs to be jettisoned.(Personally,I think he could carve out a very good career as a C/PF third big,but he would need to get his head firmly into the game.)

by Tisbee on Nov 30, 2011 10:29 AM CST up reply actions   1 recs

If they play Hill at center

I might believe they’re gunning for a high draft pick.

by mr. eggplant on Nov 30, 2011 10:34 AM CST up reply actions  

They worked him out there and he held up pretty well.

I was satisfied. Also, Tisbee is doin’ work with that post. Work of truth.

My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased

by BD34 on Nov 30, 2011 10:48 AM CST up reply actions  

Really?

Maybe it was just the games I watched, but the Rockets seemed to give up a lot of easy layups when he was in at center.

by mr. eggplant on Nov 30, 2011 11:11 AM CST up reply actions  

He showed it's about pairing.

With him and Patterson in they did a good job of locking things down. His help defense and positioning got better.

My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased

by BD34 on Nov 30, 2011 12:10 PM CST up reply actions  

Good points

Scola and Battier were also mentioned in a trade the year before last for Amare at the trade deadline. Alot of people felt that Nash played a major role in his success, but he proved them wrong when he went to NY. Amare would of been a real nice piece, but no deal.

by since86rocketsfan on Nov 30, 2011 10:39 AM CST up reply actions  

I too am still hoping Hill matures.

He showed flashes last year at the 5 but seemed better at the 4 where we have a logjam of backup players. Still think McHale is the man with the best chance to make it happen for Hill and Thabeet. Also like to see him work some lowpost moves for patterson. The bad thing is the lockout has really shorten the time for this year.

by arnold p on Nov 30, 2011 10:42 AM CST up reply actions  

I am big fans of both Scola and Martin

I just think Patterson and Lee can do well at those positions but should only move them for a young big center. Depth is going to be more important this year with more back to backs.

by arnold p on Nov 30, 2011 10:00 AM CST reply actions  

Speaking Not As A Rockets Fan

But as someone who watched them quite a bit on League Pass last year, I’d be very optimistic about their future. I think good defensive center x (I’m higher than most on Thabeet)/Patterson/Hayes/Morris/Lee/Martin/Lowry/Dragic could be a top 4 seed in the West in a couple years. Beyond that, they need to be lucky, either in the draft, finding a free agent that wants to move to Houston, or finding a team to trade with that needs a power forward. At least in the meantime, they’re fun to watch.

by mr. eggplant on Nov 30, 2011 10:19 AM CST reply actions  

Point is

Good players on this squad, possibly even really good. I don’t care what you say, I do not believe there is one player on this team that can carry a team to a championship right now. As a fan, that should be the only hope for my team. I am not interested in being merely “competitive”. Accepting mediocrity is a sign of admitting premature defeat. Fun to watch? My fish in my fish tank are fun to watch. I’m not going to work on Monday talking about my damn fish. I don’t by T-shirts with my fish’s name on it (even though there is probably someone who does and that makes me smile). I’m going to watch my Rox and root them on. However, I am not delusional.

"Listen here you beautiful bitch, I'm about to fuck you up with some truth" - Kenny Powers

by A.J. G on Nov 30, 2011 4:34 PM CST reply actions   1 recs

*buy

"Listen here you beautiful bitch, I'm about to fuck you up with some truth" - Kenny Powers

by A.J. G on Nov 30, 2011 4:35 PM CST up reply actions  

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