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Around SBN: The Most Dangerous Division in Sports

Monday Evening Dream Links

I used to do this semi-regularly, and I figure now is as good a time as any to try again. While in the age of twitter and constant media updates many of you might be getting the "latest" from the press in real time, the vast majority of NBA commentary and news isn't being produced or shared on "social media." So I'm going to try to provide some links to the best news and opinions produced recently. Consider it "Rockets Digest" (but I won't call it that because that's dumb). At least for today it will be somewhat short and narrowly-focused (my focus in basketball has been fairly narrow over the past few days, after all), but in the future I hope to provide broader links.

Anyways, the big story from today, I suppose, is the almost-but-not-quite-and-maybe-not-almost-at-all Clippers-Hornets trade for Chris Paul. The Clippers were considered "frontrunners" in the race to get CP3 after the Rockets-Lakers-Hornets deal finally died. Now, less than 48-hours later, the deal is dead again and the Clippers are reportedly completely done with talking to the Hornets. Oh, did I write "Hornets?" I meant "the NBA." Woj has more:

While there’s been no official transition of power, general manager Dell Demps has been completely pushed to the side in deal-making decisions for the Hornets, multiple league sources told Y! Sports.

"He’s basically a spectator now," one official said.

Stern has two of his top league office executives – Joel Litvin and Stu Jackson – making calls and conducting negotiations with teams interested in Paul. Demps is still making calls, but rival front offices and agents involved in possible deals with New Orleans say that he’s no longer authorized to decide on any transaction.

...

Agents are finding it increasingly difficult to negotiate even minor deals with the Hornets’ front office. They’re struggling to get clear answers amid the belief that Demps doesn’t have the authority to make even minor signings to augment a depleted, non-NBA-caliber roster beyond the starting five.

"Stern has made them inoperable," one prominent agent told Yahoo! Sports. "I’ve given up trying to do anything with them until the Paul situation is resolved. It’s very unfair to Dell. … Very unfair what the league is doing to him right now."

This is an interesting development, to say the least. I think as long as the NBA was letting Demps do his thing, there was some semblance that Stern and Jackson (yes, that Stu Jackson) were simply "vetoing" trade ideas that would harm the Hornets in the long run. But when the league has virtually taken over the negotiations, it certainly seems like they're shutting Demps out to avoid the further embarassment of another vetoed trade -- an inevitability only if you have no real interest in trading Chris Paul for anything but the most obscene of values. If you just want Demps to cut payroll in preparation for the team's sale, then that certainly can be conveyed to Demps and he can probably make that happen. If you just want Chris Paul to turn into some draft picks and a young player or two, that could happen as well. But right now, it really seems like those are just convenient covers for Stern's more likely goal of simply avoiding the inevitable outrage that would occur if Chris Paul is traded to a major market.

Why hasn't Demps resigned by now? Is he afraid that he'll lose any future job prospects if he leaves? The impression we've gotten so far is that he's, at the very least, a pretty savvy general manager, able to turn four-five months of Chris Paul into an All-Star, two quality starters, and a decent backup point guard. Surely he's only damaging his reputation by sticking around this circus, right? So that's our poll for today: If you were Dell Demps, would you resign?

More on Chris Paulgate 2011 (and other stories) after the jump.

Star-divide

As a counterpoint to all the above, here's Beckley Mason at Hardwood Paroxysm:

Lamar Odom, Louis Scola and Kevin Martin are all very good players. If they are your team’s best players, you might win about 44 games, or exactly as many as New Orleans won last year. You wouldn’t quite be a lock for the playoffs, but there’s a chance you could get hot, score a ton, and scare the bejesus out of the third seed.

But what’s the long term plan, there? Adding those three players represents about $30 million dollars for 2011-12, and at least $21 mil in 2012-13. The franchise itself is expected to sell for around $320 million, so we’re talking about a tenth of the franchise value in three players that aren’t stars, young, or getting better. That’s not a huge incentive for a potential buyer, and it’s rumored that the Hornets will be sold sooner rather than later.

Adding those three players would make the Hornets pretty good again next year, but in two more seasons, they’d be pretty much where they are now, except without major pieces to trade.

It’s a short term non-solution to a long term problem: how do you build a consistent winner in a small market? The answer isn’t by getting older and more expensive by adding the type of players who max our their value as complementary pieces along side the likes of Chris Paul.

I think this is a good point -- the original three-team trade was decidedly more short-term-oriented than the proposed Clippers trade. But, with that said, it seems to me that the original trade was still better. Scola, Odom, and Martin could all be flipped to contenders at the deadline -- they are each exactly the sort of players that teams are looking to add for a playoff run. So if you are able to grab young players and picks from teams at the deadline for each of those guys, I think that greatly outweighs the value of the proposed Clippers deal (the best pieces of which would appear to have been Al-Farouq Aminu, Kaman's expiring contract, maybe Bledsoe, and the T-Wolves' 2012 pick -- Eric Gordon was reportedly "untouchable"). We have to assume that, just as the Lakers and Rockets weren't about to be finished dealing for the year after the original trade went down, neither were the Hornets.

---

Last piece on Chris Paul, I promise.

Steve Perrin over at our SBN sister-site Clips Nation has the Clippers' reaction to the balked trade. Head on over if you want to see what being jilted looks like from the third-person view.

---

In other stars-demanding-trades news, it looks like Dwight Howard might not be traded right now:

"As of a right now, I have on a Magic uniform. … If it’s meant for me to stay here, then I’ll stay," Howard said. "I love this city and there’s no place I’d rather be than Orlando. I just want to make sure that we have the right things here so we can win a championship. And I’m all about change. If you’re willing to change and willing do what it takes to win, then you’ve got me.

"You only get one time around the track. There’s no reset button. You don’t want to miss out on any opportunity to win," Howard added. "You gotta do what it takes to win."

...

Martins said that despite Howard’s claim Sunday that none of his input has been taken into account by management in regards to what changes he’d like to see the Magic make, that the trade for Boston big man Glen "Big Baby" Davis was one they did do.

"It’s a conversation," Martins said. "It’s not a be all, end all. And I do think that Dwight’s input is important and we’re gonna continue to solicit Dwight’s input. But, the final decisions rest on Otis. Otis is the head of this basketball operation. And he is the only one that knows how all the pieces will fit together properly. And he can solicit input from anyone and he will solicit input.

I can't see Howard being moved before the deadline. Unlike Paul, he won't need time to work with his new teammates and get in rhythm. A center's job -- particularly the job of one such as Dwight -- doesn't rely upon the other players quite so much, and he doesn't dominate the ball nearly as much as Paul. So Howard's value at the deadline will likely be higher than Paul's, anyways. He also seems a little less demanding in which city he plays in.

---

Dwight wanted to be traded to the Nets just a few days ago, and now we might know why: soon-to-be Brooklyn Nets owner Mikhail Prokhorov has announced his candidacy for president of the Russian Federation:

The announcement Monday by Mikhail Prokhorov underlines the extent of the discontent with Putin, who has dominated Russian politics for a dozen years— first as president, then as prime minister.

...

It is unclear how effective a challenger Prokhorov might prove to be. His wealth, estimated by Forbes magazine at $18 billion, and his playboy reputation may turn off voters who resent the gargantuan fortunes compiled by tycoons even as countless Russians struggled through the economic chaos of the 1990s after the Soviet Union collapsed.

Yes, that might be a problem. Russians, if you don't know, really, really resent the '90s.

I wonder what the policy on foreign heads-of-state owning NBA teams is?

---

Despite Chauncey Billups making it very clear that he will destroy anyone who attempts to claim him in the amnesty auction, Woj reports that not only have there been multiple bids -- the Clippers appear to have bid the highest. He also states that they will play him, however, so maybe that will make Chauncey happy. Maybe.

Also, what the hell is going on with Donald Sterling? Matching DeAndre Jordan's offer sheet, spending money on multiple free agents, and now going for Billups in the auction. Times appear to be changing in Clippers land.

Of course I guess we could have said the same thing about six or seven years ago.

---

Not basketball-related, but still interesting: the MLBPA has instituted a new dress code. I don't really care too much about that (I kind of approve, actually. Wouldn't life be better if we all just dressed in suits and ties? No? Maybe I'm just a formal person), but Grantland's Charles Pierce has some great criticism of the BBWAA types in there. Maybe what made me like the piece is just this bit about the politics of press boxes:

It is an exercise of control, of course. The baseball press box is an odd beast. It is owned by the team, but regulated by the local BBWAA, which is why you get that announcement before every game to the effect that "This is a working press box. No laughing or cheering, etc." Which is good as far as it goes, which is occasionally too far. (I was once nearly removed from the press box at Fenway for the capital offense of laughing too loudly at the Cleveland Indians.) Occasionally, MLB feels compelled to yank the leash so the BBWAA knows who's really in charge. Generally, the BBWAA comes to heel. This is one of those times.

As well as the (apparently continuing) old-media/new-media divide:

"We just thought it was time to get a little organized, to put it in place before there was an incident," committee member Phyllis Merhige, an MLB senior vice president, told the AP. "There's no one who expects reporters to wear a suit and tie. But with the advent of different media, there are now individuals who are not part of a bigger organization that may have a dress code."

In other words, OMIGOD, BLOGGERS! RUN AND HIDE! THEY COULD BE NAKED!

It reminds me of this excellent bit from Hunter S. Thompson's (excellent and under-read) Fear and Loathing on the Campaign Trail '72:

"How about Jackson?" I asked

This made for a pause... but finally Draper said the National Youth Caucus might support Jackson, too, "if he comes around."

"Around to what?" I asked. And by this time I was feeling very naked and conspicuous. My garb and general demeanor is not considered normal by Washington standards. Levis don't make it in this town; if you show up wearing Levis they figure you're either a servant or a messenger. This is particularly true at high-level press conferences, where any deviation from standard journalistic dress is considered rude and perhaps even dangerous.

In Washington all journalists dress like bank tellers -- and those who don't have problems. Mister Nixon's press handlers, for instance, have made it ominously clear that I shall not be given White House press credentials. The first time I called, they said they'd never even heard of Rolling Stone. "Rolling what?" said the woman.

"You'd better ask somebody a little younger," I said.

And you thought this shit was new.

---

Okay, I lied, one more thing about the Chris Paul trade, but it's a good one. Courtesy of Basketbawful, more from Dan Gilbert:

Anyway, back to the issue at hand. F*** the Lakers. They're even setting themselves up to go get Dwight Howard after securing Chris Paul, and if you think that's competitive balance, then maybe I've forgotten the definition of it since we "resolved" this lockout situation. Some idiots might say that's all "good, forward-thinking team management," or "a willingness to give up talent to get talent," but those people didn't get massively hammered in the keister by LeBron's gigantic ramrod. No seriously - again, not about me - I bought stock in Vaseline right after the "Decision," and am quite happy I did.

Poll
You are now Hornets GM Dell Demps. In light of your total isolation from decision-making about your team, do you resign?
Yes
335 votes
No
54 votes
I'd impotently threaten to resign and then do nothing.
125 votes

514 votes | Poll has closed

Comment 222 comments  |  0 recs  | 

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This tweet makes me angry
RicBucher Ric Bucher
I’m assuming, of course, that the NBA can sell the Hornets in the next month or so. Which I’m told, and believe, it can if it so desires.

So they are gonna decide to keep Paul around until they get a new owner, or until he leaves? And if you can sell the team within the next month or so, why the hell did you open up trade discussions?

by twinkilling0303 on Dec 12, 2011 6:19 PM CST reply actions  

Yeah, I don't believe it.

Why would the league be able to sell the team in a month but not now?

by Only_A_Lad on Dec 12, 2011 6:24 PM CST up reply actions  

My only guess is

there’s been a buyer waiting around since before the lockout, who wanted to see how the whole thing would shake out, what the CBA would look like and just how soon he could take the team to Seattle (assuming they knuckled under for a new building). Of course Seattle is a better market than New Orleans even without a new building.

"Each in turn... volunteered his suggestions, his invaluable suggestions."

Twitter
The Dreamshake

by Xiane on Dec 12, 2011 7:32 PM CST up reply actions  

I can't see anyone moving a team back to Seattle without a new building in place.

Moreover, I can’t imagine the NBA approving an owner who is going to move the team anywhere without a sweet new arena. That would undermine their bargaining position going forward.

There’s only really one unoccupied market that maybe makes sense right now, and that’s Montreal, oddly enough. All the other major markets that could possibly support another team (I like this article from WoW on the subject) are either occupied (Austin, New York, SoCal), don’t have a suitable arena (Austin, again), or have other problems (Las Vegas and the gambling association thing).

Relocation just doesn’t seem like an option right now, and without relocation I don’t see how that team can get sold.

by Only_A_Lad on Dec 12, 2011 7:43 PM CST up reply actions  

I think Vancouver would work if given another chance.

You’d have to have a team in Seattle again first though. Playing up the NW rivalry sells tickets and gets ratings.

"Each in turn... volunteered his suggestions, his invaluable suggestions."

Twitter
The Dreamshake

by Xiane on Dec 12, 2011 8:09 PM CST up reply actions  

Vancouver would work

As long as Stu Jackson isn’t running the team.

by KD1 on Dec 14, 2011 9:11 PM CST up reply actions  

Seattle.

Seattle. Seattle. Seattle.

If you're a fan of basketball, watch a movie called Sonicsgate. It's free, just google it.
2011 Vancouver Canucks - The closest feeling to winning I've ever had.

by .Bonzo on Dec 12, 2011 8:53 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

Yay for Seattle!

Seattle and more Seattle!

A void? I see no void!

by gunsbound on Dec 13, 2011 12:47 AM CST up reply actions  

I see you're a fellow Mariners fan.

Yes/No for Fielder?

If you're a fan of basketball, watch a movie called Sonicsgate. It's free, just google it.
2011 Vancouver Canucks - The closest feeling to winning I've ever had.

by .Bonzo on Dec 13, 2011 4:49 PM CST up reply actions  

Ellison wanted team before,but Stern blocked him...

…because he wants to move it to San Jose.

My special fantasy,no Free Agent signs w/New Orleans out of anger at the League. After all NO only has some 5 players under contract.

by Tisbee on Dec 13, 2011 1:25 AM CST up reply actions  

This was said on twitter

But if I’m Demps, I amnesty CP3 and burn down my office as I walk out. What a joke for the NBA to take his power without having the common decency to fire him.

Check out The Dream Shake.

by Patrick Harrel on Dec 12, 2011 6:28 PM CST reply actions  

that would be

delicious

contributing nothing substantial to your blog, since 2008!

by misterterrific on Dec 12, 2011 7:01 PM CST up reply actions  

No way

Make them fire you. If you resign you don’t get any of the money money that your contract calls for.

Meat? They're made out of Meat? Meat.

by ihavethemelody on Dec 13, 2011 3:10 PM CST up reply actions  

Patrick says it the best...Burn the NBA down...

they need to stop effing over the league

ROCKETS!!!!!!!!!!!!

by Roxbybirth on Dec 12, 2011 6:51 PM CST reply actions  

Marc Gasol agrees with the Grizzlies

Alas, a magnificent long weekend to be a Rockets fan is wrapping up.

Check out The Dream Shake.

by Patrick Harrel on Dec 12, 2011 7:17 PM CST reply actions  

Yes. It's been fantastic.

It’s a real showcase of the brilliance and power of billionaires, megalomaniacs and collectivism.

The Rockets and Hornets got hurt the worst. Just unreal. Still need a center.

"Each in turn... volunteered his suggestions, his invaluable suggestions."

Twitter
The Dreamshake

by Xiane on Dec 12, 2011 7:27 PM CST up reply actions  

collectivism

Xiane’s gone all Rand on us.

Seriously, though, yes. That’s part of the problem right there. This insane obsession with “parity” and punishing teams that are able to use the system to their advantage. The Basketbawful link was a perfect satire of that.

by Only_A_Lad on Dec 12, 2011 7:37 PM CST up reply actions  

I would never go Rand on you.

Truly.

But this NBA stuff, ugh.

"Each in turn... volunteered his suggestions, his invaluable suggestions."

Twitter
The Dreamshake

by Xiane on Dec 12, 2011 7:58 PM CST up reply actions  

I voted I'd quit

but if I was Demps I’d say exactly what was on my mind regarding Stern, Litvin and Jackson. Because then they’d have to pay me after they fired me.

Here’s your perspective: MLB ran the Expos better than this. Bug Selig. And MLB.

"Each in turn... volunteered his suggestions, his invaluable suggestions."

Twitter
The Dreamshake

by Xiane on Dec 12, 2011 7:25 PM CST reply actions  

And it's a good idea to ask why that is.

This all comes down to the lockout. The real issues in the lockout — the fight between the big and small clubs, the fight between owners and players — hasn’t been resolved. Stern lost credibility with both the owners and players during the lockout, too. He can’t afford to be seen as the guy playing favorites with Chris Paul and the Hornets, which has paradoxically lead him to (at the very least look like he wants to) play favorites. He can’t let the Chris Paul go to a major team, so he intercedes, but now he can’t let him go to another team without getting an absolute monster deal. This shit is whack, son.

Baseball came out of the ‘94 strike utterly exhausted. The fans were pissed, attendance plummeted, and everyone learned their lesson. We haven’t had a peep of labor strife or even really big-market/small-market stuff after that. Yeah, there’s the occasional call for a salary cap or whatever in the press, but no owner comes out and says anything about it seriously. The new CBA vastly favors larger teams, though I get the feeling that some of the smaller ones agitated for those same changes.

Baseball was able to run the Expos more competently because the owners didn’t hate each other. There wasn’t a civil war going on. They still didn’t do a good job, but Minaya was allowed to operate much more independently (except for the whole “money for callups” thing).

If Bud Selig had more credibility, this wouldn’t be an issue. If the owners weren’t split into two (possibly more) camps, this wouldn’t be an issue.

The NBA has a lot of problems, and the lockout solved none of them. And this is one of the first results.

by Only_A_Lad on Dec 12, 2011 7:35 PM CST up reply actions  

I pretty much agree with all that.

And I would never say MLB did a good job with the Expos – since they forced the execution of a generally viable franchise to begin with.

Did you mean David Stern rather than Selig in the next to last sentence?

I wonder what would happen if the NBA pooled and then divided all the various TV deals?

"Each in turn... volunteered his suggestions, his invaluable suggestions."

Twitter
The Dreamshake

by Xiane on Dec 12, 2011 8:03 PM CST up reply actions  

Did you mean David Stern rather than Selig in the next to last sentence?

Yes.

I wonder what would happen if the NBA pooled and then divided all the various TV deals?

This is the real solution, I suppose (besides deregulating and telling the smaller clubs to shut it). But it’s too late now. The Lakers have a massive deal (and I mean truly massive) TV deal with Time Warner. The Rockets just signed a big deal with Comcast. And, what, you’re going to go to the Lakers, Celtics, Rockets, Bulls, Mavs, etc. and say, “Okay, now you’re going to give up that money to support basketball in Charlotte and Milwaukee.”??? I don’t think that would work. The NBAPA would likely be very fine with that (remember that they were all for increased revenue sharing during the lockout), but the big owners would fight it tooth and nail. There would have to be major concessions from the smaller owners — softening or eliminating the luxury tax and salary cap, for instance. And while those things might not even be “necessary” to ensure competitive balance with such a tv deal system, the smaller owners want those mostly because it allows them to run a cheaper team, not because it helps them win.

Honestly, I think the best setup at this point is something more akin to the MLB or Euro soccer. More like the latter than the former, actually: make the NBA a looser association, let teams move wherever they want, and just let the system sort itself out.

by Only_A_Lad on Dec 12, 2011 8:17 PM CST up reply actions  

Whatever's in the till.

"Each in turn... volunteered his suggestions, his invaluable suggestions."

Twitter
The Dreamshake

by Xiane on Dec 12, 2011 8:10 PM CST up reply actions  

Do we?

Maybe I’m just discouraged but at this point… fuck it. Dalembert isn’t going to get us into the playoffs.

I’ve never said we should “tank” before, and I won’t now, but maybe the Rockets need to recognize that the universe is set against them right now.

by Only_A_Lad on Dec 12, 2011 8:19 PM CST up reply actions  

The Grizzlies are so fucked financially right now.

But God Damnit they look like a good team. You think we could pick up OJ Mayo off a salary dump?

If you're a fan of basketball, watch a movie called Sonicsgate. It's free, just google it.
2011 Vancouver Canucks - The closest feeling to winning I've ever had.

by .Bonzo on Dec 12, 2011 8:54 PM CST reply actions  

Seriously?

This is what I get for ignoring the NBA for one day.

If you're a fan of basketball, watch a movie called Sonicsgate. It's free, just google it.
2011 Vancouver Canucks - The closest feeling to winning I've ever had.

by .Bonzo on Dec 12, 2011 9:07 PM CST up reply actions  

They look solid

But I think they’ve locked themselves into a decade of playoffs but no championships barring a trade. Theres no transcendental star there.

Check out The Dream Shake.

by Patrick Harrel on Dec 12, 2011 9:04 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

You could make an argument for Rudy Gay.

I think he’s a star, he’s got potential to be a number 1 guy.

If you're a fan of basketball, watch a movie called Sonicsgate. It's free, just google it.
2011 Vancouver Canucks - The closest feeling to winning I've ever had.

by .Bonzo on Dec 12, 2011 9:08 PM CST up reply actions  

Rudy Gay sucks

Ahhhh
Still feels good saying it.

And it’s still true!

by Only_A_Lad on Dec 12, 2011 9:09 PM CST up reply actions  

How could you mean that?

Although I’ve got no regrets for getting Battier instead of him. Rudy Gay sitting behind T-Mac would not have fared well.

If you're a fan of basketball, watch a movie called Sonicsgate. It's free, just google it.
2011 Vancouver Canucks - The closest feeling to winning I've ever had.

by .Bonzo on Dec 12, 2011 9:14 PM CST up reply actions  

He's like, inefficient and stuff.

Also a poor defender. Not a special passer or anything. Doesn’t rebound well….

Maybe “sucks” is a bit harsh. He’d be a decent backup.

But, oh wait, the Grizzlies gave him a max contract! Why? Because he “looks” like a star? I mean, he dunks and does all that, but beyond that he doesn’t look like a star in any way. His conventional numbers aren’t special. His advanced metrics show him to be mediocre. This is why the Grizzlies are a bad franchise.

Basically, they lucked into two trades that made them a decent team last year: the Marc Gasol move and the fact that Z-bo magically suddenly became a star after three teams of absolute, unadulterated shit play. I’m still bewildered by that. I suspect it happened because I don’t attend church regularly, and God just wants to vex me.

by Only_A_Lad on Dec 12, 2011 9:21 PM CST up reply actions  

but Houston has Joel Osteen

you’d think we’d get some love for the Rockets from the big man because of that….or maybe that’s why he hates us hmmmmmmmmmmm

"San Antonio is the best falling down team in the league"- Bill Worrell

by TheLastDynasty on Dec 12, 2011 9:23 PM CST up reply actions  

Z-bo didn't play like shit.

He was just called ball hogger, selfish and stuff on losing teams. Everything just looks better when your winning.

A void? I see no void!

by gunsbound on Dec 13, 2011 12:54 AM CST up reply actions  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rh2fn01cngg

Well, when you pull stuff like this……………….

Minnesotan Rockets fan

by Barragan on Dec 13, 2011 6:31 AM CST up reply actions  

No,

he played like shit. I’m pretty confident on this one. He really played like shit.

by Only_A_Lad on Dec 13, 2011 2:48 PM CST up reply actions  

He's improving as a defender and finally using his athleticism

to his advantage on the defensive side of the ball. He does jack up a couple of ill advised and low percentage shots but most stars do. He is a starter and borderline all star. He can get to the rim at ease but he likes to shoot jumpers instead. Below average hahaha above average for sure but very overpaid

by jlim4 on Dec 13, 2011 12:54 AM CST up reply actions  

He does jack up a couple of ill advised and low percentage shots but most stars do.

No, he Jacks up a lot. He just isn’t an efficient shooter. He isn’t even that much of a possession-user, either, so it’s not like you can justify his misses by saying he’s Carmelo Anthony-lite. He’s just mediocre in basically every facet of the game.

by Only_A_Lad on Dec 13, 2011 2:51 PM CST up reply actions  

He's good at dunking.

And he’ll get you a couple of really amazing boards every night. A couple.

In terms of usefulness he and Thaddeus Young are very close comps (on basketball ref).

"Each in turn... volunteered his suggestions, his invaluable suggestions."

Twitter
The Dreamshake

by Xiane on Dec 13, 2011 5:33 PM CST up reply actions  

Funny

I was thinking about it earlier today, and Thaddeus Young was the player I was comparing him to in my head.

by Only_A_Lad on Dec 13, 2011 5:40 PM CST up reply actions  

I'm getting paid to not do shit

Yeah, if I’m Demps, I’m staying right where I am. He’s screwed either way, might as well get paid to do it.

Thank god I wasn’t born a female.

by basketball is cool on Dec 12, 2011 9:44 PM CST reply actions  

LOL, my thoughts exactly

I would keep the job, unplug the phone, turn off my cell and go to Harrahs all day and play poker!

by Texas08 on Dec 13, 2011 7:21 AM CST up reply actions  

On a positive note

Looks like I’ll only miss 2 Rockets games on TV. The first preseason game is on KTXH, as well as a game in March. Every other will be on FSHouston or NBA TV…woohoo! Gonna have to find some sort of link Saturday.

by twinkilling0303 on Dec 12, 2011 10:18 PM CST reply actions  

There will be links. I shall find them

"I’m not dumb. I just have a command of thoroughly useless information." Bill Watterson~Calvin and Hobbes

by The Chuckwagon has rolled on on Dec 12, 2011 10:29 PM CST up reply actions  

Last season I missed one game from start to finish.

It was a Grizzlies game, and we won easily. I was proud of myself for watching 81 + preseason, but I always had a little voice in my head telling me that the Rockets won that game because I didn’t watch and I should have skipped more games.

If you're a fan of basketball, watch a movie called Sonicsgate. It's free, just google it.
2011 Vancouver Canucks - The closest feeling to winning I've ever had.

by .Bonzo on Dec 12, 2011 10:51 PM CST up reply actions  

So what now?

PG: Lowry
SG: Martin
SF: Bud
PF: Scola
C: Not Chuck, Not Pau, Not Nene, Not Dalembert, so…Tabheet? Hill?

by Mitul V. Patel on Dec 12, 2011 11:13 PM CST reply actions  

I was wondering the same thing

Who’s starting on Saturday if we no sign no one?

by RedRowdy420 on Dec 12, 2011 11:29 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

Awesome....

"I’m not dumb. I just have a command of thoroughly useless information." Bill Watterson~Calvin and Hobbes

by The Chuckwagon has rolled on on Dec 13, 2011 6:44 AM CST up reply actions  

That's actually the pitch DM gives for Thabeet

"San Antonio is the best falling down team in the league"- Bill Worrell

by TheLastDynasty on Dec 13, 2011 6:13 PM CST up reply actions  

If Im Demps

I dont go anywhere. See’n as how the NBA is making all the decisions, he might as well just hang out and collect a paycheck. If everythin blows up its not his fault because his hands were tied.

"Stability is a factor in teams that win the championship. But if you stabilize on a team that's going to end up short of that, then all you're doing is spinning your wheels in the 45-win range."-----Daryl Morey

by fanoflosingteams on Dec 12, 2011 11:45 PM CST reply actions  

I still don't see how this new deal is supposed to be any better than the 3 team one

Gordon is basically a short version of Kevin Martin 6 years ago, Eric Bledsoe is a shorter, less talented version of Goran Dragic, Chris Kaman is a 29 year old throwaway, Al-Farouq Aminu is a 5 year old that doesn’t do anything particularly well I guess one day when he grows up he could possibly become a basketball player, but there is no reason to expect that. There is always the lottery pick that comes with it, but if this deal goes down, getting lottery picks will be an annual occasion for the Hornets, so I don’t see why that is something to get worked up about. Sure it’s a younger deal, but it makes the Hornets basically a less talented version of the Clippers in a mucn, much smaller market, that’s not something I’d want to buy

by Bobbythegreat on Dec 13, 2011 12:37 AM CST reply actions  

The money

taking back Odom, Martin and Scola was too much money

by twinkilling0303 on Dec 13, 2011 1:12 AM CST up reply actions  

Fine, but from a basketball standpoint

it was a better deal. I personally think that a team that could make the playoffs is more valuable than one that will be a perennial lottery team.

by Bobbythegreat on Dec 13, 2011 1:14 AM CST up reply actions  

I'd rather have that extra pick actually

Gordon and Bledsoe are good gets as well. Obviously I think it’s crap that the first deal got the veto, but I’d rather have 2 high picks than finish 8th in the West

by twinkilling0303 on Dec 13, 2011 1:16 AM CST up reply actions  

But think of afterwards

No reason NO couldn’t flip Lamar to Dallas,get the Mav’s 2012 First,a $8.9mil TPE. And having an $8.9mil TPE to use at deadline or 2012 Draft.

And Clips were saying Gordon OR the Minn pick,not both.

by Tisbee on Dec 13, 2011 1:35 AM CST up reply actions  

Is it me,but I've had some sentences disappear when posting

In the above I also pointed out Minn had an offer ready for Martin once NO got him.
NO should have been able to get Beasley,Anthony Randolph,maybe even a Future First.
So NO would have ended up w/4 players(Scola,Beasley,Randolph,Dragic) for just $2mil more than Paul’s salary,and 2 2012 Firsts and maybe another.

by Tisbee on Dec 13, 2011 1:38 AM CST up reply actions  

I've had hole replys disapear (something to do with the abusive content probably)

The content of the text above is provided for information purposes only. No claim is made as to the accuracy or authenticity of the content. The troll does not accept any liability to any person for the information or advice (or the use of such information or advice) which is provided in the text above.

by craigj007 on Dec 13, 2011 4:07 AM CST up reply actions  

If that deal

is really out there, than perhaps, oh, the Rockets should make that trade?

Meat? They're made out of Meat? Meat.

by ihavethemelody on Dec 13, 2011 3:15 PM CST up reply actions  

Good point about flipping those players

On the Clippers deal…my understanding is that now they will include Gordon, Bledsoe and the pick…they are willing to do it now that they picked up Billups

by twinkilling0303 on Dec 13, 2011 1:45 AM CST up reply actions  

Anybody else notice

all the home games for the Rockets are at 7 central instead of 7:30? I wonder if that’s because of the shortened season, or a sure thing in the future.

by twinkilling0303 on Dec 13, 2011 1:06 PM CST reply actions  

Huh.

It will certainly make it harder to get to the games on time, given traffic. It’s tough enough for people in the suburbs to go home, change, get the kids or whatever, and drive back into downtown.

"Each in turn... volunteered his suggestions, his invaluable suggestions."

Twitter
The Dreamshake

by Xiane on Dec 13, 2011 1:48 PM CST up reply actions  

This statement above is why I don't have season tickets anymore.

It’s tough making the 30 minute drive into TC twice a week, especially when my parents would rather stay home and watch the game.

If you're a fan of basketball, watch a movie called Sonicsgate. It's free, just google it.
2011 Vancouver Canucks - The closest feeling to winning I've ever had.

by .Bonzo on Dec 13, 2011 4:50 PM CST up reply actions  

They changed it before the season was supposed to start back in October.

I don’t know why, they just did.

If you're a fan of basketball, watch a movie called Sonicsgate. It's free, just google it.
2011 Vancouver Canucks - The closest feeling to winning I've ever had.

by .Bonzo on Dec 13, 2011 4:49 PM CST up reply actions  

Heavy drinking and heading into the season as is.

Can you blame them? They tried everything they could.

My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased

by BD34 on Dec 13, 2011 3:38 PM CST up reply actions  

I imagine that we won't hear what they're up to if they can possibly avoid it at this point.

And I don’t blame them.

Most of the crop of average big men has been scooped up already.

"Each in turn... volunteered his suggestions, his invaluable suggestions."

Twitter
The Dreamshake

by Xiane on Dec 13, 2011 5:34 PM CST up reply actions  

Mavs pursuing Dalembert pretty hard.

Thabeet starting Monday for our first preseason game? Oh god.

If you're a fan of basketball, watch a movie called Sonicsgate. It's free, just google it.
2011 Vancouver Canucks - The closest feeling to winning I've ever had.

by .Bonzo on Dec 13, 2011 4:52 PM CST reply actions  

Oh God. He might improve.

Then what will we do?

My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased

by BD34 on Dec 13, 2011 4:59 PM CST up reply actions  

Not the type of risk I was hoping to bank on going into the season.

If you're a fan of basketball, watch a movie called Sonicsgate. It's free, just google it.
2011 Vancouver Canucks - The closest feeling to winning I've ever had.

by .Bonzo on Dec 13, 2011 5:06 PM CST up reply actions  

Most people here weren't because it's easy to do.

Focus on McHale and a team that will actually help him out can go a long way to improving a player.

My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased

by BD34 on Dec 13, 2011 5:17 PM CST up reply actions  

I don't think we've ever agreed on anything.

Ever.

If you're a fan of basketball, watch a movie called Sonicsgate. It's free, just google it.
2011 Vancouver Canucks - The closest feeling to winning I've ever had.

by .Bonzo on Dec 13, 2011 5:22 PM CST up reply actions  

Well, actually playing him for a season, letting him foul out or whatever without going berserk

might be useful. At least you’d know what you had. I still contend that we don’t know. If he could learn a quarter of McHale’s post arsenal he’d be deadly.

"Each in turn... volunteered his suggestions, his invaluable suggestions."

Twitter
The Dreamshake

by Xiane on Dec 13, 2011 5:36 PM CST up reply actions  

I've been humming the same tune for a while with only a few others harmonizing.

He could take in a lot and make some huge strides. Giving someone shit because they played for Memphis back when they were bad or the Timberwolves is just plain closed minded.

My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased

by BD34 on Dec 13, 2011 5:38 PM CST up reply actions  

I think most are wary of him because of his lack of basketball knowledge

He started the game late, and most reports have shown him as being very green when it comes to understanding the subtle movements and knowledge of the game. Something most of the players he’ll go up against have a pristine grasp on as NBA players. I’m down to see where he goes, hell he can only go up, and seeing as he’s starting a 7’3" he’s got a good head start

"San Antonio is the best falling down team in the league"- Bill Worrell

by TheLastDynasty on Dec 13, 2011 6:15 PM CST up reply actions  

I think asking him to learn a quarter of that arsenal is a lot

I think what we’re really still hoping is that he’ll become a half-decent defender at this point.

Maybe he can pick up a fifth of Mutombo’s arsenal. What’s Deke up to these days?

by Only_A_Lad on Dec 13, 2011 5:43 PM CST up reply actions  

I hope think Hill will be starting.

Minnesotan Rockets fan

by Barragan on Dec 13, 2011 5:12 PM CST up reply actions  

Interesting.

First move we’ve seen to try an upgrade the 3

If you're a fan of basketball, watch a movie called Sonicsgate. It's free, just google it.
2011 Vancouver Canucks - The closest feeling to winning I've ever had.

by .Bonzo on Dec 13, 2011 5:24 PM CST up reply actions  

I honestly don't know much about him

I think it said he played for the Warriors…I miss most west coast games since they come on so late.

by twinkilling0303 on Dec 13, 2011 5:35 PM CST up reply actions  

He's a 3 point shooter, 6'6.

I don’t how well he plays defense, but I know he’s only 25.

If you're a fan of basketball, watch a movie called Sonicsgate. It's free, just google it.
2011 Vancouver Canucks - The closest feeling to winning I've ever had.

by .Bonzo on Dec 13, 2011 5:39 PM CST up reply actions  

With a PER of about 15, 9.2 PPG and 2.7 RPG.

He best be a lockdown defender if anyone is going to consider it an upgrade.

My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased

by BD34 on Dec 13, 2011 5:56 PM CST up reply actions  

He's more of a risk.

He could end up being another Kevin Martin type player, because he has the potential to end up scoring 20-25pts a game if he fully develops. HIs defense isn’t great though.

If you're a fan of basketball, watch a movie called Sonicsgate. It's free, just google it.
2011 Vancouver Canucks - The closest feeling to winning I've ever had.

by .Bonzo on Dec 13, 2011 6:02 PM CST up reply actions  

He's the perfect player for this team because last year I watched the Rockets and said...

You know, I think this team needs to score more and play less defense.

My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased

by BD34 on Dec 13, 2011 6:07 PM CST up reply actions  

Dude! So did I!

Internet high-five!

"I’m not dumb. I just have a command of thoroughly useless information." Bill Watterson~Calvin and Hobbes

by The Chuckwagon has rolled on on Dec 13, 2011 6:10 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

I don't mind getting a guy who, down the road, could be more useful.

I’m still unsure if we’re trying to rebuild or if we’re competing. The moves made for Gasol and Nene had me thinking competing, but here we are at square one.

If you're a fan of basketball, watch a movie called Sonicsgate. It's free, just google it.
2011 Vancouver Canucks - The closest feeling to winning I've ever had.

by .Bonzo on Dec 13, 2011 6:11 PM CST up reply actions  

Thats exactly my concern right now

If nothing happens the rest of this off season, we will basically have no direction. No real chance to compete for a title, but not enough young talent to build a team for the future.

by mtl1986 on Dec 13, 2011 6:14 PM CST up reply actions  

Yet when we try to trade Scola and Martin to head in that direction the fan base gets uppety.

The hitch on the whole thing is, we need to jettison Martin and Scola to get younger/get picks or to land a guy worth building around, neither of which this board seems keen on (Evidenced in the Gasol threads and the NO TANKING! threads).

I think we seem intent on changing the system of mediocrity and becoming a rebuilding team since the league foiled our attempts at relevance.

My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased

by BD34 on Dec 13, 2011 6:29 PM CST up reply actions  

I agree.

I felt that keeping Scola and Martin was the smart move while attempting to sign a good free agent center. Now that we have not been able to do so. We are not going to be a contender this year, and there is no point in being just average. Next years draft is deep, let’s trade scola and martin for future picks and let the current team develop. I would have rather seen us keep chuck hayes and let scola and martin leave. He was the perfect mentor for young players, unfortunately he is gone. It is now up to the training staff to preserve to mentor the younger players

by mtl1986 on Dec 13, 2011 6:39 PM CST up reply actions  

I feel like your main arguments are always based around the same things.

The general fan base of the Houston Rockets is wrong.

If you're a fan of basketball, watch a movie called Sonicsgate. It's free, just google it.
2011 Vancouver Canucks - The closest feeling to winning I've ever had.

by .Bonzo on Dec 13, 2011 8:47 PM CST up reply actions  

And I feel like these kind of posts add absolutely nothing to conversation.

I made a comment on the general trend that was easily observable. Is it my fault that the position is hypocritical in regards to Martin and Scola? No. Is it my fault that when you evaluate this team people are coming around to the fact of the matter? No. Does this franchise need a definite direction? Yes. Are Kevin Martin and Luis Scola part of that? Not if we rebuild and they probably go if we’re going to try to trade for a franchise player. Will it help people to reconcile this in their heads sooner rather than later? Probably. I sure can’t wait for people to complain about us drafting 14th again this year if we don’t trade either of those two and find out 80% of the complainers are people who advocated keeping Martin and Scola.

My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased

by BD34 on Dec 13, 2011 8:57 PM CST up reply actions  

Ive been holding on to the hope of keeping scola

and martin as I like both players. However, I fail to see a move that will allow us to keep the current team and become a contending team in the future. Scola and Martin are our two oldest players, and are also interesting trade chips. Keeping them while adding no other players will not make houston a championship team. They might reach the playoff but probably nothing more. I was hoping that we could add Nene or MGasol to the current team. That would have made us a much better team. Failing to do so makes me think we should start moving on from them. Adding someone like dalembert will not be enough with the current team.

by mtl1986 on Dec 13, 2011 9:05 PM CST up reply actions  

And this is exactly the kind of opinion I wholly appreciate.

You know the realities of it, with them, we continue mediocrity, they necessarily have to be moved to go in one direction or another as a franchise.

My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased

by BD34 on Dec 13, 2011 9:13 PM CST up reply actions  

I need to do my homework on all of these stats

I’ve always relied upon the basics…everyone always talks about PER

by twinkilling0303 on Dec 13, 2011 6:04 PM CST up reply actions  

Reggie WIlliam is an interesting player

He was gonna be a starter for GSW until Dorell Wright got on a incredible 3pt shooting start a cemented his starter role.

He’s not an upgrade at the 3, but he’s the back-up most team doesnt realize they need. Best known for being efficient with shots. His TS% is .58 , as a reference Kevin Martin’s TS% is .60 last year, and Lee’s was .53. It’s his calling card, he had one of the highest TS% ever @ .67 when he was playing in the D-league, and it’s something he’s been able to maintain despite playing in a high volume offense like GSW.

However, I’m not sure how he fits in unless we’re doing some personale movements @ 3

by NVP on Dec 13, 2011 7:19 PM CST up reply actions  

Sorry guys, I don't see Reggie Williams as an upgrade over Bud

I’d rather see what we have with Bud, T-Will, and Morris than sign a redundant guy like Williams.

Check out The Dream Shake.

by Patrick Harrel on Dec 13, 2011 5:58 PM CST reply actions  

In my opinion

it’s now or never for T Will. Give him the minutes, see if he’s learned anything.

by twinkilling0303 on Dec 13, 2011 6:00 PM CST up reply actions  

If we're going to play Thabeet, might as well see what T-Will can do as well.

We will have to be patient with Thabeet though. No training camp will probably make him look very bad the first few months

by mtl1986 on Dec 13, 2011 6:05 PM CST up reply actions  

More flexibility in trading people

Right now Rocket SGs-Martin,Lee,sorta Taylor
Rocket SFs-Bud,Williams,maybe Morris,Parsons

Of the SFs,only Bud has a history of making 3s. So strictly for basketball reasons it makes sense. But you’re not getting him for the min,so…if Martin gets moved,you’d need another 3pt shooter.
Say Lee and Bud start,T-Will is sixth man and you have Taylor and Reggie off bench as needed. Parsons learning in D-League.
Or if Bud is included in a deal,Martin and a Williams starts and Lee and the other Williams off bench.

True WTF is Lakers,Hornets and Rockets get back into Paul picture after League has humiliated itself w/Clips drama. W/Reggie Williams on hand the Rockets could then include Bud,a young,inexpensively paid,talented player.(Perhaps Morris as well and the Dallas pick goes to Hou.) Extremely unlikely,but if McHale tells Morey Hill is really making strides and the team can count on him…and they get a TPE for Scola,they can then go hunting for another big.

by Tisbee on Dec 14, 2011 11:26 AM CST up reply actions  

Perfect Trade for the Rockets to get Chris Paul (Rockets,Spurs,Hornets)

Rockets Get:
Chris Paul
Richard Jefferson (have to take him for salary cap)

Spurs Get:
Luis Scola (chemistry with manu)
Chase Budinger (I believe parsons can be just as good as bud with time)

Hornets Get:
Kevin Martin
Kyle Lowry
Kawhi Leonard
1st Round Pick from the Rockets
1st Round Pick from Spurs

The league might approve this since most of the teams are getting gun shy now :)

by htownballin03 on Dec 13, 2011 6:31 PM CST reply actions  

I think Jefferson got the amnesty

so there goes that. I don’t think the Spurs would trade Leonard and a 1st for Scola

by twinkilling0303 on Dec 13, 2011 6:37 PM CST up reply actions  

We should at least try though

Even if he doesn’t resign we can finally start a true rebuilding process

by htownballin03 on Dec 13, 2011 6:41 PM CST up reply actions  

I feel like trading Martin, Scola

would start a really good rebuilding process, they could both be traded for good 1st round picks. You trade all of that for Paul and he leaves, you’re left with a lot less draft picks.

by twinkilling0303 on Dec 13, 2011 6:43 PM CST up reply actions  

That would be nice

but I don’t see morey or les alexander trading scola or martin for anyone except a superstar

by htownballin03 on Dec 13, 2011 6:46 PM CST up reply actions  

Well if they would do it for a superstar that's going to leave them with nothing in 6 months

seems like they would do it for at least 2 first round draft picks in a strong draft

by twinkilling0303 on Dec 13, 2011 6:48 PM CST up reply actions  

morey would do almost anything for a superstar

I just think we need to move martin and scola if we ever want to get out of the mediocrity we are currently in

by htownballin03 on Dec 13, 2011 6:49 PM CST up reply actions  

Almost anything. He wouldn't abandon common sense.

Can I just be perfectly clear about this.

It is pants on head retarded to want Paul in Houston. PERIOD.

He won’t extend, he won’t stay, and you lose draft picks and 3/4 of your roster to acquire him if the league gets its way. That guarantees you a high draft spot and a LOT of overpaid mediocre players to meet the salary floor.

My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased

by BD34 on Dec 13, 2011 6:51 PM CST up reply actions  

Pants on head retarded

lol…spit some of my drink out on that one. It also reminded me of Bananas in Pajamas. Dunno why

by twinkilling0303 on Dec 13, 2011 6:53 PM CST up reply actions  

Well he was going to trade them

for Pau Gasol. I guess we could argue about if he’s a superstar or not, but I know he’s a really good player. I expect him to exhaust all options for those kind of players, but not for a rental.

by twinkilling0303 on Dec 13, 2011 6:52 PM CST up reply actions  

with everyone's eye on cp3 and DH12

everyone is holding on to their chips right now. It’d probably easier approaching the deadline, and Morey had the right idea, get involved in one of the superstar trades rather than directly trade from them is more likely

by NVP on Dec 13, 2011 7:24 PM CST up reply actions  

Jefferson got the amnesty and the Rockets lose Lowry, Martin, Chase, Luis, and a 1st for a guy leaving at the end of the year anyway.

Sorry but no. Never. Not now, not ever.

My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased

by BD34 on Dec 13, 2011 6:44 PM CST up reply actions  

hmmm

Why do I get the vibe that EVERYONE here believes LOWRY will return to his “END OF THE YEAR” form???? You’re treating him like some proven all star pg…you guys better hope n pray cuz I’m not buying it

by GreenRocket on Dec 13, 2011 6:57 PM CST via mobile reply actions  

That's not the vibe at all.

The vibe is everyone understands how utterly idiotic it is to part with Lowry for a guy who will abandon you at year’s end and leave you with a void at the PG position. He’s the best PG on our roster right now, and most likely will be the best next season too. Chris Paul coming in and leaving us after this season wouldn’t change that.

My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased

by BD34 on Dec 13, 2011 6:59 PM CST up reply actions  

End of year form?

I’d say he was damn good all year long. Outplayed most of the great point guards as well. The dude is a gritty player, nobody is saying he’s Magic. But even if he just keeps up the pace he had last year, we got a steal with that contract

by twinkilling0303 on Dec 13, 2011 6:59 PM CST up reply actions  

Disagree. Lowry was terrible at the beginning.

I think he’ll play somewhere between his All-Star performance at the end and his “Does he belong in the league?” at the beginning. So it’ll work out. Definitely wouldn’t trade him for CP3

Minnesotan Rockets fan

by Barragan on Dec 13, 2011 7:24 PM CST up reply actions  

His scoring wasn't good

mostly his 3 point shot, but as soon as he got the starting job he was trying to get everyone else involved. If his shot keeps falling, dude can play with anyone. (except for Derrick Rose probably)

by twinkilling0303 on Dec 13, 2011 7:34 PM CST up reply actions  

I remember comments about him being out of shape as the season started.

Don’t know the legitimacy of those, but he did improve as the season went on; obviously Aaron Brooks and his situation was sort of a catalyst for that.

If you're a fan of basketball, watch a movie called Sonicsgate. It's free, just google it.
2011 Vancouver Canucks - The closest feeling to winning I've ever had.

by .Bonzo on Dec 13, 2011 9:22 PM CST up reply actions  

I have a feeling

the Nets are going to realize they probably don’t have a great chance for Howard, and they just go ahead and sign Nene.

by twinkilling0303 on Dec 13, 2011 7:02 PM CST reply actions  

Nene staying in Denver.
Jeff Caplan: MT @Marc Stein: Nene and Nuggets reach terms on five-year, $67 million deal >> Scratch my previous comment about Nugs worse than Wolves

Read more: http://hoopshype.com/twitter/media.html#ixzz1gTXgHqyL

That is one expensive Center.

If you're a fan of basketball, watch a movie called Sonicsgate. It's free, just google it.
2011 Vancouver Canucks - The closest feeling to winning I've ever had.

by .Bonzo on Dec 13, 2011 9:19 PM CST reply actions  

It's the sad side effect of a bidding war over the slightly above average.

The only problem is that price isn’t all bad if you have a legit stud to pair him with. Unfortunately for Denver, they don’t have that.

My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased

by BD34 on Dec 13, 2011 9:23 PM CST up reply actions  

I wish I was 7ft tall in the NBA this offseason

Then I could get a ridiculous contract if I’m better than Thabeet

"San Antonio is the best falling down team in the league"- Bill Worrell

by TheLastDynasty on Dec 13, 2011 9:32 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

So much for us getting Hilarious

The BANHAMMER delivers the real justice
That's just turrible
The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence
Say what again. I dare you. I double dare you!!!

by joshsm07 on Dec 13, 2011 10:30 PM CST up reply actions  

Possible center trade candidates

Robin Lopez, Al Jefferson, Kaman, Okur, Mozgov, Varejo, Aldrich, Diop, and Haywood.

Time to trade Martin and Scola for draft picks.

by wdh001 on Dec 13, 2011 9:40 PM CST via mobile reply actions  

I figured he was out

Since LA matched the Jordan offer sheet

by wdh001 on Dec 13, 2011 9:52 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

GSW signed Kwame

For $7mil-and only 1 yr,so who knows.
Biedrins is a talented big who’s mental state and confidence has been shattered. If he gets his head back in the game-and that’s a huge if-he is an active,running big who rebounds and passes pretty well. Can’t shoot for s***,makes Chuck look awesome at FT line in comparison,and not the strongest player around. On the other hand,he’s got a reputation for hitting the clubs-and “ladies”-so there’s that.

by Tisbee on Dec 14, 2011 11:31 AM CST up reply actions  

Possible trade candidates or a wishlist?

I don’t think Lopez and Mozgov are viable candidates to leave but I also appreciate not putting Howard or Bogut on that list.

For me, I’d like to see if the Rockets can get their hands on Asik still.

My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased

by BD34 on Dec 13, 2011 9:51 PM CST up reply actions  

At this point, would you do a straight Courtney Lee for Asik trade?

I think it’s worth looking into if Chicago is still open to it.

Sonicsgate: A movie about how the Sonics were stolen from Seattle.

by .Bonzo on Dec 13, 2011 9:56 PM CST up reply actions  

We are not getting Howard or Bogut

I thought I would put up realistic options for a trade candidate. I like asik, but if Martin is the price would you be willing to do that. I think C Lee and either Dragic or Flynn is a more fair trade. Lee fits what they like from their shooting guard defensively and Dragic is an upgrade over CJ Watson.

by wdh001 on Dec 13, 2011 9:56 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

I do it for Martin.

Martin showed earlier he was upset, why not move him, get a prospect and a draft pick out of it. I’d be all for it and they did just get Rip Hamilton but him on the reserve from Martin would give them the scoring punch they want.

My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased

by BD34 on Dec 13, 2011 10:03 PM CST up reply actions  

I think the Bulls would rather take Lee. It might be tougher to sell them on Martin.

Lee would give them probably the best Defensive Starting 5 in the NBA. Who else could they couple with Asik that we could use?

Sonicsgate: A movie about how the Sonics were stolen from Seattle.

by .Bonzo on Dec 13, 2011 10:05 PM CST up reply actions  

I dont think Thibbs would be to happy with Martin

But I think they have enough defense to make up for Martin’s flaws. But I’m with I would do it and look for a trade partner for Scola. Possibly the Blazers

by wdh001 on Dec 13, 2011 10:06 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

Kaman's a guy that the Clippers are looking to get out of there. He has a 1 year deal.

Robin Lopez would be someone I’d really like, but he is somewhat injury prone.
Jefferson’s a guy that’s been mentioned by fans but fans only.
The rest are all meh.

Sonicsgate: A movie about how the Sonics were stolen from Seattle.

by .Bonzo on Dec 13, 2011 10:08 PM CST up reply actions  

Just a thought

Trade Martin straight up for Kaman and it gives them the freedom to include Gordon in a CP3 deal

by wdh001 on Dec 13, 2011 10:14 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

Martin straight up for Kaman says one thing.

The Rockets are trying to go big next summer, because Kaman frees up a good amount of space when this season ends.

Sonicsgate: A movie about how the Sonics were stolen from Seattle.

by .Bonzo on Dec 13, 2011 10:21 PM CST up reply actions  

yes

The only player we would have under contract would be lowry at 7 million I believe everyone else has a team option

by wdh001 on Dec 13, 2011 10:30 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

Amnestying Scola would bring the Rockets to about 14 mil under the cap total.

Given the terms of the CBA it depends entirely on how many years you’ve been in the league whether or not that is a max deal. Unfortunately, the Rockets should focus on trading for draft picks or a franchise player to go all in on, not amnestying some of the few players that can get them a return on investment.

My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased

by BD34 on Dec 13, 2011 10:30 PM CST up reply actions  

Marc Stein twitter
Became very real tonight that Lakers could focus on CP3 over Dwight and aim for CP3/Kobe/Bynum core thru Pau-centric offer to NBA’s Hornets

Are they saying that the Hornets would take Pau? How in the world would they get that deal done.

by twinkilling0303 on Dec 13, 2011 9:56 PM CST reply actions  

I mean.... maybe?

If you analyze it conventionally, giving them Pau gives them another star to build around for a little while, so it seems like a fine swap for the Hornets — Pau still has four years left on his deal and will probably out-produce it for that amount of time, so why not? You won’t be winning a championship with that team, but maybe the Hornets just need to accept that and move on. Besides, if you made the right moves going forward in free agency and the draft, you could put together a championship team (just like the Rockets were trying to do).

But this shit defies conventional logic. There’s no point in trying to figure it out or predict what will happen.

by Only_A_Lad on Dec 13, 2011 10:29 PM CST up reply actions  

That's why it won't happen

The league won’t approve anything. If you make a deal that would blow a normal GM out of the water, they’ll just up the asking price.

So if the Lakers throw Pau at them, Stern, Jackson, and Co. will just say, “Okay, and we want Bynum.” If they give the Hornets Bynum, they’ll say, “And some more young talent.” They just don’t want to get a deal done, but they can’t stop trade talk without making Paul (and the NBAPA) go apeshit.

by Only_A_Lad on Dec 13, 2011 10:37 PM CST up reply actions  

Any scenario

where the Lakers find a third team and get the deal done for Paul…then the Hornets turn right around and trade Gasol to the Rockets?

by twinkilling0303 on Dec 13, 2011 11:30 PM CST up reply actions  

Anything's possible, I guess, but I can't see anything happening

as long as the league is negotiating and making the final decision.

If the “mystery buyer” rumor is true (and I really, really, really, really fucking doubt it), then a deal won’t be made until the new owner gets in place. But I think the league is just playing a delaying action, trying to save face until either a buyer is found or Paul leaves.

by Only_A_Lad on Dec 14, 2011 12:17 AM CST up reply actions  

Why so gloomy guys?

ok that was stupid, at this point our C position is kind of a joke… But 2 things… Denver just screwed themselves paying Nene that much when obviously they don’t have a team to contend. Nene by himself will keep the Denver fans interest, that’s about it(see last 2 seasons in Houston for reference).
And another thing is this.. when do the Rockets make big splashes in free agency? Brad Miller, Bonzi Wells, Stromile Swift, Trevor Ariza? There will be a trade done, I promise, right now it’s a waiting game to see where the chips fall. No, it’s not going to be Gasol, but I shit you not, there will be a polished post player with an offensive game on this roster not named Scola. Coach McHale’s sucess and philosophy is predicated on it. It’s going to happen folks, but at this point at least there hasn’t been a drastic change. I mean we still have the picks and no shitty contracts. Not too many teams can say that right now.

If you can feel them, they are real.

by jake_471 on Dec 13, 2011 11:01 PM CST reply actions  

I'm with you

and considering this season will always have an asterisk next to it anyways, let’s do as may experiments as we can with the roster and pray DM pulls a star out of his ass before March 15th

"San Antonio is the best falling down team in the league"- Bill Worrell

by TheLastDynasty on Dec 13, 2011 11:07 PM CST up reply actions  

It's not like the Rockets aren't putting in an effort.

At this point I’m sold on the fact that, other than one or two minor additions, the current roster will be our roster until the trade deadline in March.

Sonicsgate: A movie about how the Sonics were stolen from Seattle.

by .Bonzo on Dec 13, 2011 11:18 PM CST up reply actions  

truth

The content of the text above is provided for information purposes only. No claim is made as to the accuracy or authenticity of the content. The troll does not accept any liability to any person for the information or advice (or the use of such information or advice) which is provided in the text above.

by craigj007 on Dec 14, 2011 3:49 AM CST up reply actions  

Seriously?
Dave McMenamin: One more Phil nugget from today: he was privately fined by the NBA an undisclosed amount for his Chris Paul trade mess prediction last Dec about 6 minutes ago

Read more: http://hoopshype.com/twitter/media.html#ixzz1gU88JWeU

Sonicsgate: A movie about how the Sonics were stolen from Seattle.

by .Bonzo on Dec 13, 2011 11:44 PM CST reply actions  

Zere vill be NO TOLERANCE for dissent!

Klaus Stern.

My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased

by BD34 on Dec 13, 2011 11:56 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

ya

Das hadden meine shpitten cumen fram meinen nosen

Translation: lmfao

by HTown80 on Dec 14, 2011 1:04 AM CST via mobile up reply actions  

Looks like Portland might do well in this Howard trade
Portland could extract as many as 3 draft picks for Gerald Wallace in possible multi-team Nets deal for Dwight Howard, league sources say.

by twinkilling0303 on Dec 14, 2011 10:16 AM CST reply actions  

I wanted Gerald Wallace....

Last year.

My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased

by BD34 on Dec 14, 2011 10:39 AM CST up reply actions  

He's really improved since his days with the Kings

I just wanna know how they could get 3 picks. You have to assume the Magic will get some picks, and I think the Nets have 2 for next year. (One is ours,top 14 protected)

by twinkilling0303 on Dec 14, 2011 10:42 AM CST up reply actions  

They probably give up more than Wallace.

You gotta think Portland is doing more than a salary dump anyhow. Wouldn’t be shocked to see some inquiry on Batum or something like that.

My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased

by BD34 on Dec 14, 2011 10:48 AM CST up reply actions  

Screw it. Dream big.

5 team deal to bring in the Hornets and Lakers so they get Chris Paul, Howard to New Jersey, Kobe to NO, Portland gets Lopez, and LA gets Wallace. Stern hangs himself outside NBA headquarters after the deal is pulled off and the new NBA commissioner is Cthulhu.

My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased

by BD34 on Dec 14, 2011 11:48 AM CST up reply actions  

It's stuff like this that makes me wish I was a part of the NBA
McHale asks bigs to pick rep to knock down 3 for chance to avoid sprints. Eager Samhan chosen, misses. Thabeet promptly steps up, drains it. McHale’s response: “I just wanted to see if they were smart enough to choose the right person. Guess not.”

by twinkilling0303 on Dec 14, 2011 11:22 AM CST reply actions  

I like McHale's faith in Thabeet on that.

I’m happy with what he’s doing and I really think people have ignored, in a very crude manner, the fact that McHale is a big man specialist and Thabeet and Hill needed development, they got what they needed and I have nothing but trust in McHale’s ability to guide this as a rebuilding or competing team.

My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased

by BD34 on Dec 14, 2011 11:30 AM CST up reply actions  

It's the main reason why I want the young guys to get a big shot this season

People think that playing them means tanking, I think it means turning some of them into really good NBA players. Of course we would lose more games, but it’s not that big of a deal since we’ve been outside the playoffs the last 2 seasons. I love the potential of Thabeet and Jordan Hill. I love McHale more and more every day

by twinkilling0303 on Dec 14, 2011 11:34 AM CST up reply actions  

It's like I've been saying, developing young players will cost you some games but we're on the outside looking in anyhow.

We’re in the lottery anyway, why not see what we have on board if every guy on the team aside from Scola and Martin are labeled as “high ceiling” guys. Let’s put that label to the test, yea?

I truly believe we have the solution to our Center issue on the roster.

My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased

by BD34 on Dec 14, 2011 11:36 AM CST up reply actions  

I don't know if they are the whole solution

but at the least I think they can contribute 15-20 quality backup minutes. I think Thabeet could be what Birdman is, with less athleticism. Come off the bench and just block everything. Go get rebounds and putbacks. But we’ll never know if the answer is on our team until they’re given a shot, seems McHale is ready to do that.

by twinkilling0303 on Dec 14, 2011 11:39 AM CST up reply actions  

For me, Center in the NBA isn't a position that requires you be extraordinary to be considered very good.

I mean, you saw the deal Nene got. He’s at best an above average center. This board wanted a huge offer to DeAndre Jordan for 7/7/~2. If Thabeet can come out and put that up he’ll most likely be ridiculed for not being a double double guy but for me, if he’s blocking some shots, securing his boards, and able to hit for 8-10 points a game, I’m not worrying about drafting a Center this offseason. Not unless it’s one of the premier ones in the draft.

As for the underrating as a shooter, that’s what gets me so frustrated when I try to talk Thabeet here. People who didn’t watch his D-League games last year (There were like 4 of us who did) were all noting how good his shot is and how he was improving by leaps and bounds with position.

My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased

by BD34 on Dec 14, 2011 11:44 AM CST up reply actions  

Yeah I'd say that's right

I think Thabeet or Hill would excel more with a bigger guy beside them. Even though I’m a Scola fan, Pau next to Thabeet or some of the other PF’s…that would be a potentially better lineup. I just hope the Rockets don’t spend 9 mil on Dalembert.

by twinkilling0303 on Dec 14, 2011 11:49 AM CST up reply actions  

I really believe that a Thabeet/Hill pairing at the 4/5 would be nice.

Jordan showed great help side defense last season and Thabeet’s MO in college was shot blocking. He showed good development in his defensive awareness and he has the tools of a competent enough offensive player to account for him.

My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased

by BD34 on Dec 14, 2011 11:51 AM CST up reply actions  

By the way

a player that I absolutely love is Nick Young. Every time I watch the guy, he’s nailing jumpshots with little room. I think it would be dumb for the Wizards to let him go after this season. He’s kind of a Kevin Martin lite.

by twinkilling0303 on Dec 14, 2011 12:05 PM CST reply actions  

I don't care if someone is efficient or not.

I want someone to be effective.

My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased

by BD34 on Dec 14, 2011 12:46 PM CST up reply actions  

I like him...

But he can be pretty streaky with not much defensive talent. Kinda reminds me of JR Smith.

by Dmo_Htx on Dec 14, 2011 12:46 PM CST up reply actions  

Young is somewhat of a chucker

It took volume for his stat to begin to climb, and really doesnt contribute a ton on non-scoring stats

Just in general very mediocre, good at scoring is the only thing i can describing him with, and even then he’s not exactly great

by NVP on Dec 14, 2011 1:16 PM CST up reply actions  

I wouldn't say it was volume

but the chance to start and get good minutes. Averaged 20 a game once he took over, so I’d say he’s a good scorer. After half a season of starting, still a lot of potential there.

by twinkilling0303 on Dec 14, 2011 1:21 PM CST up reply actions  

This

I don’t think “kind of a Kevin Martin lite” really captures what separates Kevin Martin from the rest.

Nick Williams is young, and young players can always get better, though.

by Only_A_Lad on Dec 14, 2011 1:28 PM CST up reply actions  

I concede he's not Kevin Martin

because of he’s obviously not efficient enough, but he doesn’t get many good looks. He usually shoots with a guy right up on him, or creates for himself. I think he’s somewhere between JR Smith and Kevin Martin. He can just flat out score.

by twinkilling0303 on Dec 14, 2011 1:31 PM CST up reply actions  

Wojnarowski on twitter
Orlando has ended trade talks for Dwight Howard, league sources tell Y! Sports.

by twinkilling0303 on Dec 14, 2011 1:27 PM CST reply actions  

From Sam Amick
@wojyahoonba first reported Howard talks ending, and second source confirms now. Being told Portland stood to gain 4 first-rounders in deal.

Wow

by twinkilling0303 on Dec 14, 2011 2:03 PM CST up reply actions  

I just don't know how

there are enough picks for them to get 3 or 4…and the Magic to get 1 or 2 as well.

by twinkilling0303 on Dec 14, 2011 2:12 PM CST up reply actions  

To expand on this
Nets offered everything they could for Howard: Brook Lopez + FIVE 1st Rd picks. Theirs in 2011, 2013, 2015, 2017 + Rockets 2011 pick.

Chad Ford on twitter

by twinkilling0303 on Dec 14, 2011 2:13 PM CST up reply actions  

Rockets signed Greg Smith

Does anyone know anything about him?

by mtl1986 on Dec 14, 2011 1:28 PM CST reply actions  

happened a few days ago, I thought

undrafted free agent forward. Non-guaranteed contract for camp purposes.

According to this, he’s been playing in Mexico.

by Only_A_Lad on Dec 14, 2011 1:30 PM CST up reply actions  

Yes, Chuck Hayes 2.0....

except he’s 6’8"

If you can feel them, they are real.

by jake_471 on Dec 14, 2011 2:59 PM CST up reply actions  

6'10*

He’s going to win over McHale.

If you can feel them, they are real.

by jake_471 on Dec 14, 2011 3:19 PM CST up reply actions  

Fresno State

He’s certainly build like an NBA player, being a short 6-10, 250, limitation certainly was not physical tools.

Not particularly impressive in college, and probably not so much in the pre-draft work-out, was a primary post option in college, but I would not call him experienced at playing bigger players.

by NVP on Dec 14, 2011 6:40 PM CST up reply actions  

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