Between the shoulder blades - where the Rockets like it.
by Xiane on Dec 14, 2011 2:33 PM CST
in Random Commentary
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PrintYou can say this pre-season has brought a keen sense of frustration, anxiety, and betrayal but you can't say it hasn't been memorable.
Looking at this pre-season through the lens of the past few years it is almost as if Daryl Morey and the Rockets front office had been composing a symphony. Beginning at the jangled, broken wreckage of the careers of Yao Ming and Tracy McGrady the Rockets executed trades that passed by the consciousness of NBA fans with little notice.
But all those trades had been building a theme out of odd phrases, off notes and cast offs - that the Rockets burgeon with good, if not great, veteran players, and young players with untapped potential. There was a foundation of reliable, and not aged, veterans. There was a brace of talented young players written off too soon. Added to that were a few enigmas with equal potential to be waived, or yet become genuine stars. Where could it all lead?
It lead to a trade, one like few others. The Rockets had built from rubble to a crescendo that would bring Pau Gasol, evidently past the age 30 Big Man Abyss*, and then, surely, another big man who would seize the main chance of joining Pau in front court that could contend for the NBA's best. The violins were weeping for favorites gone away, but the brass was beginning to sound a triumph, a contending Rockets team brought out of nothing, no high lottery picks, no headline player signings. Thus a masterwork, signaling bright new days for the Houston Rockets.
Then the cliched needle gouged its way across the vinyl - the NBA and David Stern killed the music dead. Sure there was an effort to revive the deal, to pay more, but the conductor had suffered a serious blow to the forehead, the musicians weren't on the same page and anything further wouldn't sound the same at all.
Now what? Now Jump.
It's almost impossible to understand the magnitude of what the NBA did in its context. First, they emasculated Dell Demps, their own choice as Hornets GM, who had worked a good trade for a player who was surely, unquestionably, not staying with the Hornets, no matter who owned them.
One might speak of value to a future owner in New Orleans, but a team that makes the playoffs then rebuilds could easily be more valuable than a team that has no hope, no attendance and only one player of any value - the putative lottery pick. The NBA has negotiated all of Paul's suitors away for now, and New Orleans remains a shambles. Remember that Scola or Martin on short or expiring deals could bring picks or players to New Orleans, too.
Note also, games are starting soon and New Orleans, as of a day or so ago, had exactly 7 players under contract and available. Demps wasn't just filling a roster, he was adding real value - Lamar Odom (now a Maverick, and Mark Cuban is back to being pond scum, if indeed he was ever anything else), Kevin Martin, Luis Scola, Goran Dragic to go with Emeka Okafor, Jarret Jack, Trevor Ariza and throw in a first round pick to aid the rebuilding to come. That's actually a good team, particularly given the shaky nature of the Western Conference this year (once unthinkable, now true, I'll write on it sometime soon). That team can fill it up, and still has defenders on the court in the form of Ariza and Okafor.
That team does not, and will not, ever exist because the NBA knows better than the manager they themselves picked.
Even the Lakers got screwed. I would never have dreamt it possible if I didn't see it happen. The Lakers were eager to get their payroll down from $90 million, despite their staggering local TV deal. Apparently they decided that the defeat at the hands of Dallas marked the end of an era. Phil Jackson's departure clearly delineates it as such, as Phil goes when the going is good, and at no other time - ever. So, move some salary, get Kobe Bryant a partner who can wring the most from his twilight years and tell Andrew Bynum (or maybe Dwight Howard) that its his frontcourt now. We saw a rejuvenated Paul singlehandedly win playoff games. We've seen Kobe do the same. Who's to say it would fail? Not even the Lakers were immune to the dog-in-the-manger tactics of Dan Gilbert, Pond Scum Cuban, et al.
Now David Stern must be reevaluated. I've always been a moderate defender of Stern as a man who accomplished what he set out to do, and built the NBA into the most internationally viable of American sports. Now? He looks like an old man, raging at the dying of the light, but raging, clearly, in the wrong direction. Always better to leave too early than too late, and by choosing (and make no mistake the owners chose it) to make this management-labor battle his final legacy, and then this, David Stern demonstrated that he overstayed his time. I don't think there's any going back, but who replaces him? Jackson and Litvin, his doughty lieutenants at the Battle of New Orleans? I hope not.
As for the Rockets, you've told key players they were traded, said sorry, but that this is the business we've chosen. Now those players are back. Luis Scola is a pro's pro, and he will bring maximum effort and be happy not to move his young family. Kevin Martin is a mercurical brooder. I expect he'll be fine, might even want to prove a point, but the NBA is the most human of the major sports. No one is anonymous, there's no hat or facemask to hide behind and humanity is revealed for good or bad, game to game and play to play. Just another cost for the Rockets to bear.
So the symphony Daryl Morey composed of broken bits, discards, waifs and strays now lies upon the hardwood with a FanTastic knife wound between the shoulder blades.. The big men are all signing big offer sheets elsewhere. The Rockets are still chock full of talent, potential and friendly contracts, with no place to put them.
Now what? Stay tuned.
* Big Man Abyss - centers, if they remain healthy and effective at 30 tend to remain effective into their mid 30s. Hakeem made it past the Abyss, Yao did not.
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Mark Cuban is back to being pond scum, if indeed he was ever anything else
No, he was always scum. Some people just forgot about that in their need to hate the Heat.
Better Off
Rockets are probably better off with Scola and Kmart than Pau, unless we want the Rockets to become the 05-07 Grizzlies.
Uncensored basketball analysis
by Ball Chat on Dec 14, 2011 3:20 PM CST via iPhone app reply actions 2 recs
Better off than they would've been with Pau and Nene?
That seemed most likely to happen. Plus we know Morey can find surrounding pieces to a team. With the current team the Rockets aren’t like the 05-07 Grizzlies, because of not making the playoffs.
by twinkilling0303 on Dec 14, 2011 3:46 PM CST up reply actions
He was never coming here.
Nene was staying in Denver.
"Do not panic, all is well" Kevin Bacon in the parade scene in the movie Animal House
by mjdinhouston on Dec 16, 2011 10:00 PM CST up reply actions
That's not true
it was openly reported he was waiting on the Nets, and had interest in the Rockets.
by twinkilling0303 on Dec 16, 2011 11:01 PM CST up reply actions
Might be the dumbest thing ive ever read.
We would have had the best front court in basketball with pau and nene. Then lowry, lee, buddinger at the other spots with the deepest bench in the league of hill, patterson, morris, williams, and flynn.
In Greek mythology, the Titans were greater than the Gods.
by The Titans are greater than the Gods on Dec 15, 2011 12:46 PM CST up reply actions
They will but
Nene was never coming here for Gasol.
"Do not panic, all is well" Kevin Bacon in the parade scene in the movie Animal House
by mjdinhouston on Dec 16, 2011 10:02 PM CST up reply actions
Yea, his waiting to not sign a massive offer from New Jersey really gives credit to this idea.
Nuggets only got him because his alternatives dried up.
My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased
Thats why they are called bench/role players
None of them would have been starters. Its called depth.
In Greek mythology, the Titans were greater than the Gods.
by The Titans are greater than the Gods on Dec 17, 2011 3:54 PM CST up reply actions
Spot on analysis
and I can’t help but smile at the Jackson dig. I voted that Stern must die. However, if I had to choose between the other two it would assuredly be to roll with what we have. I would rather know what we have for better or worse then drop a ton of scrilla on some doucher who would take minutes away from the evaluation of players currently under contract.
"Listen here you beautiful bitch, I'm about to fuck you up with some truth" - Kenny Powers
At this point
it comes down to Dalembert. If you can sign him to a reasonable short term deal, go for it. It gives you flexibility to do other things. If he wants more than the 7mil or so we have under the cap, walk away.
I would not give him so much that you have to use amnesty on anyone. It is too valuable as insurance on our big contracts. Also cap space is useful in case someone amnesties a player we want.
I also voted for pulling out the zig-zag machine.
What’s reasonable to you? Because its probably going to cost 10 million minimum.. seems to be the going rate for big men this year
Karate? The Dane Cook of martial arts?
by Rocket94 on Dec 14, 2011 4:50 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Seeing as how this is a joke of season anyway
Might as well give the young guys a shot. Hope to make a solid move by March, like Morey always does, and then use the deep draft class coming up and the great free agent selection next season to get a star, unless Stern vetoes us playing t will
"San Antonio is the best falling down team in the league"- Bill Worrell
No more Laker crap, please.
Could today be the last day we have to re-read the re-hashed ancient ‘trade that never was’ crap. I come here to find out about the ROCKETS. Please, no more Laker crap, till we play them.
by KyDude on Dec 14, 2011 6:00 PM CST reply actions 2 recs
I agree.
THe trade was blocked. It sucked.
Can we move on from it?
And as for the big men. We need to bring someone who can rotate in. Chuck would have been perfect.
I say give Hill the reigns and see what he can do with it.
"Slammed that hoe on the counter like I just got 35 on the domino table!!"
Sherrod Harris
by AlDe2356 on Dec 14, 2011 6:02 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
If Hill cant make it work.
We get a sick draft pick. Win Win
"Slammed that hoe on the counter like I just got 35 on the domino table!!"
Sherrod Harris
Understand the frustration,
but very little going on about the Rockets proper right now. There’s some basic camp updates (Everyone is practicing now, since nothing is going down on the trade front and the Rockets officially signed Morris on Monday), but other than that, it’s pretty slim.
I’m working on a new story as I right this, and I’m sure everyone else is, too. It’s just kind of tough to come up with another topic besides “The Trade that Almost Happened but Didn’t and Now the Rockets are Kinda Lost.”
I'm holding off til the season/preseason starts.
As it stands, camp is blase (I suggest subscribing to ClutchfansDOTnet on YouTube), and as soon as we see some actual game action I’ll be inclined to do some write ups. We’ve spoken the rebuild versus go all in topic to death and further coverage of things that didn’t happen is well covered.
My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased
Same here
Other than Terrence Williams being a goofball, there isn’t much to talk about with camp right now.
But Dave’s vids for Clutchfans are great.
It's not really about the Lakers but they're part of it.
Now the trade has gone down, so it’s fairly topical again.
Also, I wanted very much to point out that Morey had, in fact, accomplished something amazing – taken very very little and had a trade, and probably a signing, that would put the Rockets into a higher bracket – contending in a fairly wide open Western Conference.
Then something utterly unprecedented happened. Having a valid trade denied by fiat, is extraordinary. It’s not at all the same as rumors of a trade that didn’t quite come together, or “advanced talks” it was an honest to God deal. That’s still shocking to me, despite the fact that there’s nothing to be done.
"Each in turn... volunteered his suggestions, his invaluable suggestions."
he's going to be throwing sick alley-oops
to jordan just like he did for chandler… I think this trade has propelled the Clips from 11th best in the west to maybe a mid-seed, ahead of Houston
If you can feel them, they are real.
Whelp, it finally fucking happened
Aminu, Kamen, Aminu, the Minnesota pick, and (most importantly) Gordon.
Interesting. Very interesting.
didnt realize they have 2 Aminu
now they are short a SG, and have 3 point guards
The hot chick's chubby friend is finally getting some action...
Now it’s time for the hot chick to take back the spotlight. Wouldn’t be surprised if the Lakers come hard at Dwight right now and try and get some buzz going. Wonder if they would want to use Houston again as a facilitator, all the while dangling Pau again. For those of you who are sick of the LA Laker trade talk, I apologize.
If you can feel them, they are real.
by jake_471 on Dec 14, 2011 6:21 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Rec'd for the chubby chick use.
My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased
I'm sick of the Lakers in general
having had to hear about them incessantly in the media, so I hope they go the way of the Cleveland Browns for the next decade. Clips are going to be nasty.
"Listen here you beautiful bitch, I'm about to fuck you up with some truth" - Kenny Powers
call NO immediately
and try to get kaman for cheap.
by Christopher Dion Harris on Dec 14, 2011 6:20 PM CST reply actions
Kaman is an expiring deal, right?
If that’s the case you have better luck gunning for Okafor since New Orleans wants to shave off money. Maybe try Martin and a pick for Okafor?
My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased
Depends on the cost of doing business.
Martin made his dissatisfaction known, the Hornets are going to rebuild, and this allows us to match salary. The pick goes in to get the trade done, unless you think New Orleans takes just a TPE and a pick for him.
It’s difficult to figure because if we deal for Okafor we have to turn around and swap Scola out for a SG or SF worth the starting spot.
My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased
if NO is trying to hoard picks offer them NY’s pick and scola (salaries work) for kaman (or okafor).
by Christopher Dion Harris on Dec 14, 2011 6:29 PM CST up reply actions
How is it lateral?
This board would rather drink battery acid than give Thabeet a chance at Center so plugging a defensive center in the middle would seem to solve that while offloading either an unhappy Martin or (As my esteemed commenters have pointed out) Scola (Redundant) and a pick.
My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased
exactly… i’d rather see lowry, martin, t-will, patt, okafor (or kaman) than lowry, lee, t-will, scola, okafor (or kaman)… i think patterson will be addition by subtraction.
by Christopher Dion Harris on Dec 14, 2011 6:36 PM CST up reply actions
It's not a lateral move positionally
But I think in net effect, Okafor isn’t really any better than Martin. Okafor is a middling offensive/pretty good defensive center. Martin is a supreme offensive/terrible defensive guard. I think the net result is the same. I’ll grant that centers (particularly Rockets centers) are a lot scarcer than guards, but still. Doesn’t seem to improve the team much, and locks them into another year on that contract.
If you can’t land a trade for a game-changer, then you might as well give Thabeet a shot rather than locking yourself into a free agent mediocre center (Dalembert) or trading for a decent one with a big (though not enormous) contract.
I mean, the Rockets need a game changer. Okafor isn’t that, and trading for him arguably hurts their ability to get one.
I’m not in favor of trading martin but scola is older, salaries still work, he’s redundant, and he’s on the books longer. bring okafor home….
by Christopher Dion Harris on Dec 14, 2011 6:42 PM CST up reply actions
Maybe if you're trading Scola.
Maybe.
Would rather have Kamen than Okafor in that situation, though. But Okafor would be justifiable.
Eh, I did amend later to say Scola for Okafor.
But the important thing to keep in mind is that this defense lacked a shot blocker in the middle, which would raise the entire net effect of the defense. You can’t look at it as a +/- of what the individual players do, look at the net effect on the team. I can’t justify continuing to trot Martin out there when our swap over to McHale was to work with bigs and return to traditional basketball rather than a sieve defense and an attempt to merely outscore the opponent.
My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased
I'm going to act like you didn't just ask....
“what’s the point?” of trading for a center. Especially when mediocre, short, and unproven ones were just paid ridiculously. Okafor has a hefty contract, but he’s not chop liver.
If you can feel them, they are real.
martin would seem redundant with Gordan going to NO
I like the idea.. maybe Scola/Dragon?? Save the pick?
If you can feel them, they are real.
Good point.
Seems to work better out with your proposal. Part of me thinks the pick almost has to be included since the NBA is pretty insistent on the youth stuff. Only reason I tossed out Martin was to shave a year off Okafor’s owings by replacing it with Martin’s shorter contract.
My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased
Whats the difference between Okafor and Martins contract?
I’d be all for bringing Okafor back home.
They're paid roughly the same, Martin has one less year on it.
My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased
I'm thinking Landry to Portland for MLE
"Each in turn... volunteered his suggestions, his invaluable suggestions."
I was thinking they have two centers and no PF
We have no centers and tons of PF…
"Each in turn... volunteered his suggestions, his invaluable suggestions."
RE Martin
He’s getting traded. The question is,this yr or next. His contract is up after next season and it’s hard to imagine the Rockets giving him a new deal if they re-up Lee.
Throw in he’ll be over 30 at that point and I just can’t see the Rockets re-signing him.
So when will Martin have more value?
We know that Minn wants him. Is a sure trade today better or worse than the chance of a better(or worse) deal next yr?
I can see two Minn scenarios. Straight up for 2 Minn players or in a dreaded three team w/NO. Okafor to Houston,Martin to Minn,Dragic to NO,Pekovic and Ellington to NO,Utah 2012 First to Hou.
Seems to me that this deal basically guarantees
a repeat of “where is Chris Paul going?” next season.
Paul is an absolutely amazing player. Griffin is playing like an all-star already and will almost certainly turn into an absolutely amazing player, as well. That’s a fantastic core duo. Other people seem to really believe in DeAndre Jordan. I don’t, but I see where they’re coming from.
But you get rid of Gordon, Kamen, the pick… What the fuck is on that team next season? Looks like a good team right now, they’ll probably make the playoffs barring catastrophe, but next year… Starting a center who can’t stay in the game, no other young pieces to build around, overpaying Caron Butler, no Billups backing up Paul, and no draft picks. If I’m Paul, next year is my last year with the Clippers unless a miracle happens.
They have the pieces to build a championship team there, but it’s still the fucking Clippers.
Maybe.
Griffin is quite a force, enough to carry a team a long way. Paul is too. They have a real center, who may or may not be worth the money. But Gordon? Ouch. Aminu is a very interesting player as well.
"Each in turn... volunteered his suggestions, his invaluable suggestions."
Agreed.
Clips are definitely gonna need to make a move for a shooter.
SG?
Nothing. Really really nothing.
"Each in turn... volunteered his suggestions, his invaluable suggestions."
Hes there for two years
Apparently Chris Paul told the clippers that he is going to pick up the option for 2012-2013
Interesting.
A storyline of the Clippers doing in the Lakers could be fun to watch unfold.
"Each in turn... volunteered his suggestions, his invaluable suggestions."
Right
so next year, we’re going to get this same shit (minus the league office’s involvement) when Paul gets pissed that the third-best player on the team is DeAndre Jordan’s twenty minutes per game.
Cap Space
Do the clippers have much room. If so do u reckon they should make a play for Dwight Howard if he’s available or go for solidity
Good question.
Remember, though, that they’ll need to sign Griffin to an extension then, too. Caron Butler is signed to a ridiculous $8 million/year, as well.
True
Seems like that team hopes are resting on their knees, as Chris Paul and Caron have had a history of nagging knee injuries. Anyway I wish that team all the best and they will be a lot of fun to watch. Those fans deserve it
Don't forget...
Griffin was withheld his entire rookie season as a result of a broken knee cap sustained in a pre-season game against none other than the New Orleans Hornets!
by Nobody is Better Than Jordan on Dec 14, 2011 7:04 PM CST up reply actions
A lot of people have achieved considerable career success resting from their knees
sorry, couldn’t resist.
by Moochie's Fro on Dec 14, 2011 9:38 PM CST up reply actions
The Hornets are big winners here...
especially if they can flip Kaman or trade Okafor for more youth/picks.. I mean Jarrett Jack is a pretty good point guard already. Himself and Gordan isn’t a bad back court.
If you can feel them, they are real.
Don't discount Aminu and Kaman as well.
NO is suddenly very interesting. Still need a PF though, as Kaman will get torched by any sort of mobile PF.
"Each in turn... volunteered his suggestions, his invaluable suggestions."
Well
I guess you could call them winners, even though the 3 trade deal with the Lakers would have been a much bigger win for them
by Bobbythegreat on Dec 14, 2011 6:48 PM CST up reply actions
You could argue that the best player in this deal is Gordon.
I’m that skeptical of Pauls health.
"Each in turn... volunteered his suggestions, his invaluable suggestions."
I know he did.
I’ve had the conversation with other people. He was effective, but he just didn’t look right when I saw him (NBA package etc). He’s so good he can get it done anyway, but it seemed more like “old player skills” in an NBA context to me. He looked like himself in the playoffs, but I’d be genuinely worried about a 5 year deal for him.
"Each in turn... volunteered his suggestions, his invaluable suggestions."
My argument is that the only thing of real value that got traded to the Hornets
was Gordon and the pick.
by Bobbythegreat on Dec 14, 2011 7:28 PM CST up reply actions
Laker 3-way was good trade for mediocrity
And I think everyone here can agree that getting stuck in the 0.500-record, low lottery-pick purgatory is no treat.
The Clipper trade gives them a potential star in Gordon, a couple young (and cheap) players with potential, and a (likely) lottery pick in a great draft.
The Clippers definitely made out better in this trade if you’re trying to re-build.
by Moochie's Fro on Dec 14, 2011 9:42 PM CST up reply actions
I'm still so bitter about all of this
I understand what happened, but it sucks the Rockets are trotting the same team out there when they were 90% done with the Pau trade.
by twinkilling0303 on Dec 14, 2011 6:50 PM CST reply actions
No, they were 100% done.
Trades are teams calling the NBA to tell them what they did and the NBA making sure the numbers work. Not “mother may I?”.
"Each in turn... volunteered his suggestions, his invaluable suggestions."
by Xiane on Dec 14, 2011 6:52 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Griffin and Jordan will benefit so much from this
I can see the Alley Oop montage already
by twinkilling0303 on Dec 14, 2011 6:56 PM CST reply actions
Get ready for it....
in Marv Albert’s voice *Paul to Griffin"….“Paul to Jordan”…“Paul to…Paul”….
It’s about to be a straight up Battle of Los Angeles.
by Nobody is Better Than Jordan on Dec 14, 2011 7:02 PM CST up reply actions
"Paul to Butler"
“and Butler can’t handle the alley oop pass”
by twinkilling0303 on Dec 14, 2011 7:04 PM CST up reply actions
...only because Butler is too busy counting $8million in cash while on the court.
by Nobody is Better Than Jordan on Dec 14, 2011 7:06 PM CST up reply actions
I still love that they did that.
It’s reassuring to know that Don Sterling will still open up the coffers for some dumb contracts.
It’s not like it’s a one-year stupid contract, either. It’ll finish up when he’s 35.
It's the most perplexing deal of a season of perplexing deals.
What was wrong with Aminu? I thought he had a good rookie year, athletic, good rebounder, defender, made the break with Griffin and Gordon and Bledsoe really difficult to stop.
Ah well.
"Each in turn... volunteered his suggestions, his invaluable suggestions."
I wonder if when the Clips
claimed Chauncy….. They were letting Stern knwo they weren’t f’n around.. I mean the Clips had the best pieces to make a trade, let’s not lie to ourselves. They can waive Chauncey now like it’s nothing but cannot trade him.
If you can feel them, they are real.
Is it true
that the lakers start off with a back-back-back. Thats rough
How about Cleveland.....
yeah they traded for Baron… But, they got rid of Mo Williams, got the #4 pick(Tristan Thompson), and just amnestied Baron putting them way under the cap…Jamison and his huge expiring is going to be valuable at the deadline so im sure they can get some young players/draft picks in a deal for that…..
If you can feel them, they are real.
For the corpse of Antawn Jamison?
My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased
Well when you put it that way...
You sound a lot better to me after the lockout. No clue why.
My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased
Quite honestly I'd be happy to suit up for the veteran minimum.
Oh, you mean big time NBA players? Huh.
Cleveland has its charms – really excellent art museum, great Italian food, and …
"Each in turn... volunteered his suggestions, his invaluable suggestions."
Sister goes to school there.
She understands that you never go out at night. Ever.
Minnesotan Rockets fan
She at Case? My brother went to school there.
"Each in turn... volunteered his suggestions, his invaluable suggestions."
It's a very good school, but I'm happy to have gone elsewhere.
"Each in turn... volunteered his suggestions, his invaluable suggestions."
I go to Case!
Junior year right now, the environment isn’t as bad as everyone makes it out to be, but then again i’m a colored male so my safety isnt as much of a question. But Cleveland fans are some of the most loyal i’ve ever met, too bad all their franchises are shit
"San Antonio is the best falling down team in the league"- Bill Worrell
by TheLastDynasty on Dec 14, 2011 8:15 PM CST up reply actions
It's nothing about the school or the environment
I think that Cleveland is just too cold for me.
"Each in turn... volunteered his suggestions, his invaluable suggestions."
I transferred here from UT, grew up in Houston
I don’t blame you. I’m fearful of the next few months, I heard the snow and wind are ridiculous
"San Antonio is the best falling down team in the league"- Bill Worrell
by TheLastDynasty on Dec 14, 2011 11:13 PM CST up reply actions
All i know is....
When i lived there they gave me my taco bell through a bank drawer haha
They've gotten better
Now it’s Qdoba through a bank drawer, harder to slide though
"San Antonio is the best falling down team in the league"- Bill Worrell
by TheLastDynasty on Dec 15, 2011 11:20 AM CST up reply actions
If they draft your ass
you don’t have an option… I mean Kyrie, Tristan Thompson, probaby another high pick coming up…If they could get a guy like Lamb or Barnes they could be a copy of OKC
If you can feel them, they are real.
One other thought I have on the L.A. N.O. HOU deal that never was...
I believe that if Aaron Brooks’ injury hadn’t resulted in his meltdown and toxic dump to PHX, he’d have been the player that sealed this deal or another for Houston.
Brooks, Martin, and Scola would have been all it took.
by Nobody is Better Than Jordan on Dec 14, 2011 7:21 PM CST reply actions
Even though Dragic might be a better overall player?
Possibly so.
"Each in turn... volunteered his suggestions, his invaluable suggestions."
Well, we wouldn't have even done that deal to get Dragic.
That’s why I said if Brooks hadn’t become toxic.
The point would have been Houston was giving up 3 big starters.
Lowry and Ish Smith would have comfortably taken over at the point this season after Brooks departure.
by Nobody is Better Than Jordan on Dec 14, 2011 8:32 PM CST up reply actions
I've been arockets fan for 20 yea
by TheDream34 on Dec 14, 2011 7:39 PM CST via mobile reply actions
I've been a rockets fan for over 15 years
Has there ever been a more depressing time to be a rockets fans?
by TheDream34 on Dec 14, 2011 7:41 PM CST via mobile reply actions
Hmm, I'll have to think about that.
But generally I don’t see this as a doomed team.
"Each in turn... volunteered his suggestions, his invaluable suggestions."
If this is the "most depressing time to be a Rockets fan" you should be grateful.
Try being a fan of the Bills, the Wolves, the Wizards, the Capitals, any of those teams historically should have driven their fan base to suicide.
My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased
well you still got Ovi for the caps
yeah, you just went through a list of team that has to endure years of bad until they have something presentable
I seem to remember that moment when Yao came back
and then found out he had reinjured his foot five games into the season as being about a million times more depressing than this.
Granted, the consolation then was that “Well, we can still get a star in a trade,” but this is nothing compared to the Yao Ming’s swan song.
The season of gametime decision t-mac was a rough one
just because i felt like i was on a roller coaster of loyalty and emotion…a horrible, horrible roller coaster
"San Antonio is the best falling down team in the league"- Bill Worrell
by TheLastDynasty on Dec 14, 2011 8:17 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah but
We’ve now reached the point where the clippers and nets are more relevant than us. THE FUCKING CLIPPERS AND NETS!!!
by TheDream34 on Dec 14, 2011 8:28 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
At least the grizzlies arent more relevant than us
wait a minute, they are….
I don't know
The scottie pippen signing and eventual suckage was up there pretty high up there.
Karate? The Dane Cook of martial arts?
by Rocket94 on Dec 14, 2011 8:27 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
That season sucked, for sure.
The season after it might have sucked more — Hakeem was in obvious decline (and left afterw I mean then he promptly retired as a Rocket), Barkley went down, they didn’t make the playoffs….
But Francis and Mobley were young and new and awesome to behold.
I’d have to say the single most depressing moment in Rockets history — the one that absolutely sucked the most in the gut-punch sense — was Karl Malone’s illegal pick on Drexler and Stockton’s resulting game-winner in the ’97 Finals.
that's a good one, didn't think of that
How about signing Kelvin Cato… That’s depressing
Karate? The Dane Cook of martial arts?
by Rocket94 on Dec 15, 2011 8:56 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
this
"Lets go rip the mothafu#kin heart out these haters!"
by F-BombTheJets on Dec 15, 2011 12:31 AM CST up reply actions
Destruction of Twin Towers
That team had put away the Lakers w/ease and were on verge.
Then cocaine ruined the guard corps,Sampson blew out his knee and that was all she wrote.
The tank year to draft Ralph was full of wretched basketball culminating in playing E 53 minutes in the last game of season.
Just realized that last season Chris Paul was the hornets point leader, assist leader and rebeound leader
how in the world does your pg average the most rebound on your team?
Chris Paul: 4.1 RPG
Emeka Okafor: 9.5 RPG
Me: wat?
by seanbergmanrules on Dec 14, 2011 9:08 PM CST up reply actions
Does the Clipper trade now justify Stern vetoing the trade?
Seems like it took a dumb Clippers team to give too much in the trade (they should’ve stuck to their guns.. Eric Gordon OR the Minny #1, not both) to finally make it look like Stern made the right decision to veto the Laker-Rockets 3-way.
You have to admit, this is a better haul for a re-building team.
No.
The fact that the Hornets got more later is completely and totally irrelevant.
Minnesotan Rockets fan
not if you consider that Stern was acting as the Hornets owner
he didn’t actually veto the trade in his role as the commish.
by Moochie's Fro on Dec 14, 2011 9:50 PM CST up reply actions
I think that's a distinction without a difference.
"Each in turn... volunteered his suggestions, his invaluable suggestions."
Exactly,
I know we’re beating a dead horse at this point, but the fact is that Stern and Co. set up a conflict of interest problem as soon as the league bought the team, and they brought that to the fore as soon as the initial veto went down.
I’m surprised at how well everyone in the community is buying their shit, now that a “better” trade has gone down. Apparently our memory only lasts a few days.
Stern vetoed the trade after at least a solid week of negotiations between the Lakers, Rockets, and Hornets. Where was the league office telling Demps to trade for youth in that week? Where was Stern? Demps said he was advising the League Office in the negotiations, so why at the last minute did they put their foot down?
And now he goes on TV and says his decision was made without any “input” from other owners? Puh-fucking-leeez.
Just because the trade is good now, doesn’t mean that the initial veto was anything but a whack-job. They knew they had to swing a blockbuster in order for the public to buy this shit, and they did. Good for them. But they haven’t fucking fooled me.
No doubt, Rockets were completely screwed
You’ll get no argument from me there. In fact, when I saw the title for this commentary post, “between the shoulder blades,” that wasn’t where I was thinking we took it between.
But a lot of the criticism of Stern was that he was being stupid AND dictatorial, ie, a stupid dick. But I think the results of this trade with the Clippers clearly shows that he was simply a dick.
And though there was clearly a case of conflict of interest, when you consider it strictly from the perspective of his fiduciary duty to the Hornets, he played it perfectly. (Even though it took a Clipper management team with all the negotiating leverage to foolishly cave on Stern’s demands.)
by Moochie's Fro on Dec 15, 2011 1:19 AM CST up reply actions
It justifies it in the sense that a kid’s mom buying him some candy after he throws a tantrum in the checkout lane justifies the tantrum. As an observer, it pisses you off because it encourages bad behavior.
And god, are the Clippers still terribly managed. Everyone talks about how awesome they are now, with Blake Griffin and all. They got lucky on one draft pick. Then the traded away what ended up being the #1 pick in the draft to get rid of a bad contract when everyone knew amnesty was on the horizon, signed Caron Butler to a hilarious contract, then traded away half their team for an injury risk point guard. Gordon AND the Minny pick? Good thing they kept Bledsoe, who will be a backup. So the Hornets say the want Gordon and the Minny pick? Say no. What are they gonna do instead? Trade him to LA for Derrick Character?
by seanbergmanrules on Dec 15, 2011 5:17 PM CST up reply actions
Hey Xiane, I know that I'm a little late to this party, but
that symphony metaphor you wove into your analysis was a nice touch. Very well-written piece.
Baseball is the only place in life where a sacrifice is really appreciated.
"Shoot baskets, not people." -AK
i'm quietly optimistic about this season
we’re in no way a shoe-in for the playoffs. our team is young and still developing. the only piece we lost from last year is chuck hayes and about 2/3 of a season of battier… so our center position got, and this is ridiculous to comprehend, weaker.
last year, we spent most of the year with pretty much one able PG (AB was either injured or being petulant and shooting dumb shots), k-mart, battier/bud, scola and hayes. yao was there for five games. jordan hill progress. ppat impressed. courtney lee was legit.
our starting line-up, given that there are no more trades, is gonna be: lowry-martin-bud-scola-hill. or maybe thabeet. in any case, this is more or less the line-up. since the battier trade last year, the rockets went 15-8, including tying our largest win streak at home (including that blowout of boston). of our 8 losses, 5 were to playoff bound teams.
so yes, we’ll miss chuck hayes in the paint, but i don’t believe the chuckwagon contributed a helluva lot in the form of victories.
yes, some of the weaker teams in the conference have become stronger, but we also have a relatively easy schedule.
Xiane - I'm way late to the dance as well, actually the dance is over
Sign Sammy if you can, he wasn’t hat bad on the Kings last season and the only real problem I had with him was that he took too many mid range shots. I could never tell the difference between his blocks and his goaltends for the most part I think the refs just guessed. He can still run and jump though not as well as DeAndre Jordan but you know what you’re getting with him and can be certain that every possible ounce of potential Dalembert ever had has been utilized.
I have heard that Daryl Morey is kind of a sacred cow down there in cattle country but to mix all kinds of metaphors isn’t it possible that the trade winds that have recently raged through Houston possibly drove the baton, like a straw through a palm tree, through Morey’s head and that he is not in fact stunned but actually dead?
The smartest kid in the class is rarely elected class president. Is it possible that being best buds with Bill Simmons and humbly reigning like dork royalty at the Sloan Conference may not be enough to either lead the Rox past the valley of desperate mediocrity o rhave the cojones (as you say down there) to blow it up and start over?
I don’t know, I’m just asking. I always thought one of the most important jobs in the GM’s job description was to………… ,,,,,,,,you know, make trades that improve your team?
Frances Amthor: I think you're a very stupid person. You look stupid, you're in a stupid business, and you're on a stupid case.
Philip Marlowe: I get it. I'm stupid Farewell My Lovely (1975)
And in this vein I get what I want how I want it because I am the customer. You might want to remember that you thieving scumbag mongrel bitches.
nate21h@evilcowtowninc.com
Hard to do that when your owner would much prefer you sell tickets than pick an actual direction.
Worse yet when you pick an actual direction and the league decides to tell you to piss off.
My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased
trade that improve your team
He’s made a lot of them. They just don’t involve superstars. Except that one.
Don’t forget that Houston lost a superstar to injury three years in a row. They had nearly 40 million in payroll sitting on the bench. The fact that they flirted with the playoffs is a testament to a lot of things, not the least of which being Morey’s shrewd trades.
He’s proven, in my eyes, that if the Rockets ever had a superstar (or two) to build around, he would sneakily put together an amazing group of role players to carry them far into the playoffs. But he’s unable to get a superstar.
That’s because getting a superstar is based on two things: luck and being a flashy destination. Houston has neither.
Hey, I've been in and out, sorry to miss this.
As for Morey, I don’t know if he’s a sacred cow, but it’s hard for me to fault him much. He took over a team that was meant to contend with Yao and McGrady, added a very good piece for that in Artest. Then it all imploded, and he’s been going around collecting interesting things to throw in a trade.
I don’t think Morey is dead, but he’s very very angry. He’s been collecting for three years, and had what he needed to get what he wanted and the league nixed it. I think there’s no question a Gasol trade and center signing would have improved the Rockets – the West is much much more open this year than people might think. That team would have contended.
Even so, we’re going to see 66 games in roughly 120 nights, and there’ll be a normal all-star break at the end of Feb in that as well. That pace might well favor a deep young team like the Rockets where the bench isn’t much below the starters.
I think we’ll get an answer this year. We’ve talked the fringe-playoff Rockets versus going full on rebuild to death here. With Adelman gone we’re going to see young guys play. If that increases their value in trade…
"Each in turn... volunteered his suggestions, his invaluable suggestions."
Thabeet has not been amnestied and he is not likely to be amnestied.
As it stands McHale has been praising him and he’s been showing strides. He’s the only actual Center on the roster, and his contract is a team option at the end of this year. Amnestying Thabeet this season only works if a major free agent offer is to be made, which at this point, doesn’t seem likely.
My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased
so do we go back to praying that Thabeet makes the leap?
maybe that’s asking too much. i’m still optimistic for Jordan Hill… seriously. no sarcasm meant there. (which is a bit sad.)
by Moochie's Fro on Dec 15, 2011 2:47 PM CST up reply actions
Hill and Thabeet
are a good center combo, they have different strengths and weaknesses. OTOH, for now, they have something in common, none of them is good enough to be…..good enough.
But if you think about the fact that they have shown some progress in less than a week, give ’em this season and next year full preseason and training camp, they might turn into pretty decent or even good centers.
by Sucker Punch on Dec 15, 2011 3:04 PM CST up reply actions
I dunno, two guys under 25 without a lot of playing time - too soon to tell.
"Each in turn... volunteered his suggestions, his invaluable suggestions."
A season of tanking.. with Hill getting mad minutes
I’m hopeful.
Big guys take time to develop, and now Jordan Hill finds himself in the perfect situation to do so. (I’m ignoring Thabeet for practical purposes.)
by Moochie's Fro on Dec 15, 2011 3:19 PM CST up reply actions
Thabeet remains a pretty athletic 7'3" guy. Don't give up.
He’s never really gotten proper instruction or consistent minutes. When Memphis rolled him out and he didn’t sparkle like Rose or Durant they basically hid him. Not sure what they thought they were getting beyond a raw, but interesting, big man.
"Each in turn... volunteered his suggestions, his invaluable suggestions."
it's the toughness thing...
can you teach toughness? i feel like, to a certain degree, guys like Marcus Camby and Tyson Chandler were soft when they first entered the league.
i’m more hopeful about Jordan Hill because a few pounds of muscle (his frame can definitely carry more weight) and defensive instincts (which he may be able to develop with minutes and coaching) would make him a solid starter.
by Moochie's Fro on Dec 15, 2011 3:29 PM CST up reply actions
I think genuine toughness or scariness you can't teach.
But I think you can teach a player to be tough within the confines of his job, unless he’s just simply afraid of contact.
"Each in turn... volunteered his suggestions, his invaluable suggestions."
can we just transplant Joey Dorsey's 'tude into Thabeet's brain?
Maybe it’s related to confidence as well? In any case, I don’t know why, but I don’t see it happening with Thabeet. I guess he has one season to prove me wrong.
I wonder if McHale has a coaching spot for Charles Oakley.
by Moochie's Fro on Dec 15, 2011 5:53 PM CST up reply actions
Make him sit down and watch a season of "Keeping Up with the Kardashians."
Guarantee you that he comes out ready to kill others or himself. If we play Dalls and New Jersey, others.
My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased
Anyone getting antsy over Patterson and his ankle?
Latest quotes from him are he’s listed day-to-day,but is really at least a week away.
Then he has to get his conditioning back,his timing. Says McHale has been supportive,telling him to get healthy first.
Are we watching a stealth tank unfold?
Stern effed us,no quality FA bigs(and Dalembert is not a quality FA,and w/Kwame getting 1 yr at $7mil and Landry one at nearly $9mil,lord knows what he’s asking for), no proven Cs and now sitting out Patterson, one wonders.
For fun, look at Rocket bigs available to play-Hill,Thabeet,Scola…Morris®,Smith(undrafted rookie),Samhan(rookie FA),Cousin(young D-League vet). So much for all that PF depth.
I dont think we would rest Patterson on purpose, he is a big part of the future plans.
It does seem though like were going into the year and see what we have. Anyone know which quality big men will be available in next years draft?
He's locked in for the year.
My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased
Marc Stein
Houston Rockets sign forward Jeff Adrien to 2year deal, source tells Y! Sports.
by twinkilling0303 on Dec 15, 2011 1:33 PM CST reply actions
Why a 2 year deal though?
Sonicsgate: A movie about how the Sonics were stolen from Seattle.
Jeff Adrien stats from his international team last year
by twinkilling0303 on Dec 15, 2011 1:57 PM CST up reply actions
He also spent a short amount of time
with the Rio Grande Valley Vipers
by twinkilling0303 on Dec 15, 2011 1:58 PM CST up reply actions
And did really good while he was there.
He should provide depth at PF, along with his D-league brethren.
Basically, we don’t have other choices, develop HT and Hill, tryout Samhan, Smith, and see if they can crack the rotation at C. Same thing at PF, develop Patterson, see if Adrien can translate his d-league/euro quality into nba.
‘Cause we ain’t getting any talent in FA or trades, unless we try a Martin trade that would net us some A. Randolph/W. Johnson combo, or whatever young prospects we can get for him, from teams in need of a scorer. Scola could also bring something in return.
But only realistic chance of getting all star caliber players is playing Morris and T-will, and playing them a lot. Morris with his intelligence, maturity and mismatch possibilities, along with T-wills freak athleticism, defensive demon ability (Mchale said that) and passing skills, provide our chances of having THE player on our squad.
And yes, I see Williams having more success playing SG.
Of course, both of them can be busts, Morris could be to slow to guard opponent SF, and Williams…….is Terrence Williams, nuff said!
Regarding Thabeet, there is no objective reason against him reaching D. Jordan/T. Chandler/K. Perkins level of stats and efficiency in a year or two, and as long we don’t pay for that more than 6 or 7 mil per season, along with Hills progress, we are set at center.
by Sucker Punch on Dec 15, 2011 2:48 PM CST up reply actions
Free Jordan Hill!!!
At this point, it doesn’t make sense to sign Dalembert, right? Unless Morey has an Al Jefferson trick up his sleeve.
by Moochie's Fro on Dec 15, 2011 2:53 PM CST up reply actions
Al Jefferson wouldn't make us any better
than Dalembert, he is no difference maker, but he is paid as one. I’m not saying he isn’t good, he is one of the best post players in the league, but he doesn’t address our rebounding and blocking weaknesses. It’s like having 2 Scolas up front.
by Sucker Punch on Dec 15, 2011 2:57 PM CST up reply actions
post players are a dying breed
i think that’s why we could convince ourselves that Pau Gasol was, not necessarily the answer to all our problems, but coupled with Nene (who isn’t a difference maker by himself either), a strategy that would be hard for defenses to match up against.
So Al Jefferson with Dalembert creates some of those problems too. (I realize I’m reaching here.. though I do like Al’s post game. But he have to keep hope alive somehow, right?)
by Moochie's Fro on Dec 15, 2011 3:16 PM CST up reply actions
I think post play, like power running in the NFL
is the new undervalued trait in the NBA. The Rockets seem to collect post scorers more than most teams, and there’s not much anyone can do about it. The signing of McHale, only the craftiest post player ever, is an indication of that direction.
"Each in turn... volunteered his suggestions, his invaluable suggestions."
Dalembert and Gasol would have been an impressive frontcourt
with Gasols ability to move, and Dalemberts shot contesting. I watched a game last year where Dalembert absolutely shut down both Bynum and Gasol. If I remember Bynum did his usual cheap shot punk thing when it wasn’t going his way and Cousins apparently invited him to settle things with him. Bynum declined. I may not be remembering that perfectly, but it seems right.
"Each in turn... volunteered his suggestions, his invaluable suggestions."
but adding only Dalembert doesn't do much
except ensure another season of low-seed/low-lottery-pick purgatory.
what picks do the Rockets have next season? their own and NYK?
by Moochie's Fro on Dec 15, 2011 3:23 PM CST up reply actions
I think you may as well go with what we have.
And play Thabeet and Hill and Cousin if he’s still around. This season will be over pretty quickly anyway.
"Each in turn... volunteered his suggestions, his invaluable suggestions."
Agree
Except I’d like to see Scola moved. Who else was looking to sign David West? THere doesn’t seem to be a great market out there for Scola, especially if you’re looking for a draft pick back in return.
by Moochie's Fro on Dec 15, 2011 6:04 PM CST up reply actions
Possibly looking for our next Chuck Hayes
Another down and dirty player that will grind it out with anyone
I just watched the Rockets 2010-2011's review on NBA.com
At one point, the guy say “Houston’s season was in the hands of young guns Kyle Lowry and Kevin Martin and new aquisitions Trevor Ariza and Courtney Lee”.
This is the official review from NBA.com…
Well, they owned the Hornets
Nobody ever thought “It’s funny, that Trevor Ariza guy looks like the 35% shooting SF of New Orleans”?
by RiiseRockets on Dec 15, 2011 3:15 PM CST up reply actions
That Lee-to-Ariza fast break was something to behold wasn't it?
"Each in turn... volunteered his suggestions, his invaluable suggestions."
Yeah I saw that as well.
Just confirms that nobody outside our fanbase watched any Houston Rockets games last year.
Sonicsgate: A movie about how the Sonics were stolen from Seattle.
Nonsense
That Louis Scalia guy had a good year, and I’m impressed by his backup Carl Landry. Rick Adelman is a legendary coach, and he will get these guys playing like champs in no time!
P.S. Hopefully Yao can bounce back from his injury this season!
-Any NBA Journalist/fan/mascot outside of Tejas
by Aging Dominican on Dec 15, 2011 4:26 PM CST up reply actions
Louis Scalia... haha.
I find that really funny for some reason.
by Moochie's Fro on Dec 15, 2011 5:54 PM CST up reply actions
He hammers you down with originalism...
FROM THE BENCH FOR STATE’S RIGHTS!
My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased
Today's Rockets media day.
Expect a whole bunch of quotes.
Sonicsgate: A movie about how the Sonics were stolen from Seattle.
I keep promising myself I won't post anything more about the fucking veto, but this was too good.
Asked about how he felt about having the NBA refuse to authorize his trade for Pau Gasol, Morey said, “On the advice of counsel I can’t talk about it.”
Morey said he “literally” had been advised by legal counsel, but would not specify why he had discussion with an attorney.
“I just can’t comment on that,” he said.
The Rockets are not, however, “planning” to sue the NBA over the issue, a person with knowledge of their thinking said.
http://www.chron.com/sports/rockets/article/GM-s-silence-speaks-volumes-about-Rockets-2405757.php
Considering how the league views the Rockets
we would really be screwed if Morey said something to piss Stern off. Oh wait, we already got screwed! My bad.
Earlier I said that Stern nixing the trade "as NO owner"
versus as NBA commissioner was a distinction without a difference. And practically speaking, it is. But from a legal standpoint it makes Stern and the NBA’s position almost unassailable.
Since the “owner” of the Hornets said no the “league” wasn’t involved in an official capacity. That the NBA and the owner are the same probably doesn’t make a huge difference.
"Each in turn... volunteered his suggestions, his invaluable suggestions."
The point is as the owner Stern stopping the trade is an OK move.
BUT the problem is the timing. He should have stopped it BEFORE it was made public. That is my complaint, if the GM had the authority to make the trade and Stern was too sorry of a owner to communicate with his GM before it was made he should have stayed out of it. I feel he then used his position with the NBA to make up for his laziness as an owner. He at the very least owes the Rockets a public appology. That is what a REAL man would do.
Tim Kawakami on twitter (some columnist)
Why is Houston collecting last year’s GSW end-of-bench-ers? People get mad when I suggest that @dmorey is possibly not be the Genius of Our Times, but wait ’til Rockets add Vlad-Rad & Al Thornton.
by twinkilling0303 on Dec 15, 2011 5:58 PM CST reply actions
Hate to think that Daryl Morey will just end up the Tortured Genius of Our Times
Did DM make an acquisition from GSW?
Funny how, after a few drinks and the bar flashes their lights for last call, Biedrins is looking really, really hot.
by Moochie's Fro on Dec 15, 2011 6:02 PM CST up reply actions
I still think Morey is a good GM
But is anyone else thinking he is starting to look a little bit like a failure?
Madame de Staël once said, "One must choose in life between boredom and suffering." De Staël is dead but there is always an alternative.
This is where the cool is.
Not really
his best players broke down on him, he was doing a pretty good job getting pieces around them. Then he finally makes the big trade, and they take it back.
by twinkilling0303 on Dec 15, 2011 6:08 PM CST up reply actions
Yea
I try not to be too hard on him because of everything that has been working against him.
Madame de Staël once said, "One must choose in life between boredom and suffering." De Staël is dead but there is always an alternative.
This is where the cool is.
you have to play the cards you're dealt
i hate to think Morey might leave after this season. could you imagine what he’d do for the Nets, building around Deron Williams and Dwight Howard?
by Moochie's Fro on Dec 15, 2011 6:12 PM CST up reply actions
Maybe three things he has done wrong:
1) Trading Batum to the Blazers.
2) Signing Ariza.
3) Giving up a protected first in the T-Will deal.
The first got us Dorsey and Artest, which I don’t think totally makes it cool, but it also got us to the playoffs in ‘09 (and certainly didn’t hurt us getting to the WC semis). So, in the end, justifiable.
The second looked good at the time, and Ariza was eventually turned into Lee for nothing. So he turned a mistake into a good acquisition. That’s what good GMs do.
The third probably won’t matter. If the Rockets make the playoffs, they still have the NY pick (probably). If the Rockets don’t, they won’t have to pay until they do. So whatever.
T-Will pick was lottery protected?
I guess that makes me feel better about that. Does it turn into an unprotected pick the season after? We talk about how McCoach will be good for the bigs, but I think he’ll be just as good for T-Will. (Uh oh… here’s comes irrational optimism again.)
In any case, all of Morey’s moves have been justifiable, and he’s stayed away from the total bonehead move.
by Moochie's Fro on Dec 15, 2011 6:44 PM CST up reply actions
Batum looks less and less like a mistake. He just isn’t developing. I even saw Hollinger talking about how for all the talk, he was actually a pretty bad defensive player.
by seanbergmanrules on Dec 15, 2011 8:13 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah but he's still a very strong offensive player.
You can say “The Rockets don’t need more of that,” but the fact remains that he’s a very good player off the bench.
Anyways, that’s my point. The mistakes Morey has made are just tiny. The worst contracts he signed were Ariza and Brad Miller, and neither of those were in any way crippling. Both were easily moved as part of larger deals that netted the Rockets significant pieces. I mean, compare that to the good:
1) Drafted Aaron Brooks.
2) Bought Carl Landry for nothing.
3) Got Luis Scola for nothing.
4) Got a season of Artest for Donte Green.
5) Traded Rafer Alston for Kyle Lowry.
6) Turned T-Mac’s expiring (and Landry) into Kevin Martin.
7) Turned Trevor Ariza into Courtney Lee.
8) Turned the last few months of Shane Battier into a draft pick (and, I guess, Hasheem Thabeet).
9) Exchanged Aaron Brooks for Goran Dragic (AB-lite) and a first round pick.
And those are just the moves that were unquestionably good. There’s stuff he’s done (like the T-Will trade) that are still up in the air, but are really low-risk. There are other moves I’m forgetting, or which occurred while he was “advising” CD.
Anybody who says he’s doing a bad job is just out of focus — they see that the Rockets don’t have a star and say, “Oh, Morey isn’t doing a good job. He’s just an overrated NEEERRRD.” They ignore everything else.
by Only_A_Lad on Dec 15, 2011 8:44 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
so the last two seasons
of finishing as the 9th seed needs to be blamed on Rick Adelman for doing his job too good? Is perception really reality here? I mean sure everything you listed seemed like good roster moves on the surface…. But at the same all you have to do is be in the top half of the conference to make the playoffs. The goal wasn’t to finish 9th either season, but since the did, who’s the fall guy? Or is it just being the victim of unfortunate circumstances.
If you can feel them, they are real.
Nobody is the fucking "fall guy."
It’s not like he can just magic together a star. Yao’s gone. Tracy’s dead. Players of their caliber aren’t just lying around.
Thank christ Les Alexander doesn’t seem to be the “Oh shit something went wrong I need to find a fall guy” type. That’s a good way to run the organization into the ground.
chill out francis....
all im saying is before you crown this guy and say
Anybody who says he’s doing a bad job is just out of focus
.. as much as you want to praise him, you can also say that the lack of sucess/direction/identity lies with him. After all, it’s a results-based business right? Yao and Tracy aren’t excuses anymore… Right now entering this season, fan morale of this team is lower than it’s been in several years. Sure, unforseen circumstances (Stern is a nazi) and the (winning % of the SW division), hasn’t made things any easier. But ultimately, Daryl is the fall guy. You can’t fire the owner. Surely you aren’t one of those who wants to blame Adelman for winning too many games are you?
If you can feel them, they are real.
Surely you aren’t one of those who wants to blame Adelman for winning too many games are you?
What does this have to do with anything? Of course not.
you can also say that the lack of sucess/direction/identity lies with him
If you’re dumb or something, sure.
I mean, what the fuck more can you want from him? He needs to get a star? Well, we’re set up for that, but he can’t just force it. He can’t just call up OKC and say, “Please trade me Durant.” He probably won’t be able to call up Cleveland or Toronto (or whoever will get the #1 pick next summer) and say, “Give me your pick.” But he can make all the right decisions and put the Rockets in the best possible position to succeed.
What you’re proposing here — “he’s the fall guy” — is that we need to disregard all the details for gut reaction. That’s dumb. Really really really really fucking dumb.
And you’re right — Yao and Tracy’s contracts aren’t on the books anymore. But it is so completely and utterly unrealistic to expect them to be replaced in less than a year. Tracy was replaced with a fantastic scorer. Yao has only been retired for five months now. Holy shit give him a little time.
Look his job's not easy...
and i’ve said many times it a challenge. When you consider the owner and his beliefs and then the shit that Stern pulled….
But unlike Xiane, you have exonerated Rick Adelman, and place no blame on him. But for the last two seasons the Rockets have drafted 14 and entering this season they are far from a contender and far from a tanker.
Place the blame on Les, sure I can see that. Place it on Stern, ok yeah. But is that where all the blame goes? I have said several times that Daryl is excellent at evaluating talent, and he has had some nice drats. But to only praise him and not hold him the least bit accountable for where the Rockets are right now today is naive.
If you can feel them, they are real.
What should he have done differently last year?
What about the year before that? Name some shit. Who should he have drafted? Which signings were bad? Oh, there weren’t any. The only “bad” draft choice was skipping DeJuan Blair (the most surprising moment, of the 2009 draft night — Stern Announcing we had purchased the right to Budinger rather than Blair. Good move, I don’t think it was bad in the slightest, but to paraphrase Kevin Pelton from that night, it was an undersized power forward dropping in the draft. Somebody put up the Rockets signal).
We are now five months into the real rebuilding process. The only one being naive here is the person expecting the Rockets to be either a contender or gutted right now, and that’s you. Shit, and we almost fucking had it, anyways.
And as for Adelman “winning too much”:
1) I didn’t like his rotations, but even if he benches Scola and Martin for other peeps, we’re talking about a move from just-above-.500 to several games below it. That might have moved us up a few places in the draft, but it’s possible we also could have moved up via trade if we felt it absolutely necessary to get into the top 10. Maybe not, but that’s what I’d expect. These last two drafts by most accounts haven’t been the strongest, and complaining about drafting at 14 rather than 10 or 11 seems to be overvaluing the strength of the draft.
2) Even if you believe that moving up a few spaces is absolutely critical, it’s dumb to criticize a coach (or players) for “playing too well.” This, as basketball fans are so fond of reminding players when it’s convenient for them, is a business. They’re playing for their careers here. Adelman knows that “I pulled out winning seasons with those star-less Rockets teams” looks a fuck of a lot better than “We drafted 8th that year.”
My point is this — if you’re going to try to blame Morey, at least blame him for something that makes sense. Putting together a good team with limited pieces is not a criticism, by the way. I’m pretty confident in the assessment that he is the best GM in basketball right now, and anyone calling for his head because the Rockets were drafting at 14 rather than 11 or 12 needs to get their head on straight.
Look, I'm not going to go all Jerome Solomon
or call for his job or anything. I will however say this… For my job, I buy/sell oilfield equiptment, tools, supplies. For 2 years, if I just show up to work and utlimately am not profitable, I would expect to be scrutinized. You can make “moves” forever if you wanted to, but what’s the point if you never cash the chips. What deals are out there?? I will use Portland as an example. They have faced just as much probably more adversity than the Rockets whether it be Kevin Pritchard,Rich Cho, or whoever the hell their GM is now. Add to that the injuries to Roy and Oden….
Thier front office has still been able to make acquisitions like Wesley Mathews, Gerald Wallace, and now Jamal Crawford. Portland’s been to the playoffs and probably will for a while now. And Aldridge is a great player but he’s not a star. So if you look at 2009 and the historic number of injuries, Pritchard who was soon relieved of his duties, still got to 50 wins.
You’re confident in the assessment that Morey is the best GM in basketball right now… I think you are hurting your cred with that post. Unfortunately, it’s a results-based business, not a how many rumors can we get going today business.
If you can feel them, they are real.
For 2 years, if I just show up to work and utlimately am not profitable,
This isn’t a good analogy. Imagine that all your factories kept exploding and you were still breaking even. Holy shit now you’re the best manager ever I can’t wait until I buy some factories whose body parts don’t explode as soon as they get on the court!
Portland
In the end, Portland still as LMA. He’s not a superstar, but he’s an excellent young power forward. That makes up much of the difference.
Wesley Matthews was an excellent signing, but he only got signed because the Blazers were under the cap last year and thus able to blow the Jazz away. Good for them, but it doesn’t reflect poorly on the Rockets, who only had the MLE during the 2010 offseason and were trying not to put themselves in cap hell going forward.
Look, just because Portland has done well doesn’t mean the Rockets have done poorly. Portland was starting from a better position — this team is the remnants of a team that should be challenging for a championship right now. That team was built partly because the Blazers gutted their team five years ago. So we’re seeing that pay off now. What you’re seeing with the Rockets is the remnants of a team built to succeed with Yao Ming on the court, and whose individual pieces would (we think) be sent off in trades for bigger pieces. And the one moment we saw that come together, it was shot down.
I think you are hurting your cred with that post.
Oh noes my blogger cred with peeps who are dumb
Unfortunately, it’s a results-based business
Yeah, and the Rockets put up a winning season last year while $16 million on their books was devoted to a guy who played five games and then retired in the offseason.
not a how many rumors can we get going today business.
This pertains to nothing.
it's because of people like you
that this city accepts mediocrity. Rick Adelman, David Stern, Les Alexander, Tracy McGrady, Yao Ming…. If it weren’t for those people Houston would have a superstar and will be a contender this year. See how far that prayer of reasoning will take you…
If you can feel them, they are real.
I don't think you can say there's a lack of direction.
Morey has been collecting assets, and he has to be frustrated that the only ones that are valuable are the highly visible ones – Lowry, Martin, Scola. Just another reason some of RA’s playing time policies probably drove him insane – no way to showcase many guys.
So there was a direction – and he went in that direction and something unprecedented and bizarre happened.
Being mad at Morey for that is like saying someone is a bad driver because his car was hit by a meteor.
"Each in turn... volunteered his suggestions, his invaluable suggestions."
Also, "worthless" Chuck Hayes
got the full MLE in a deal (and I hope he’s healthy enough to collect).
"Each in turn... volunteered his suggestions, his invaluable suggestions."
The Rick Adelman Fallacy......
Unlike, only a lad, you are bringing up Adelman and his playing time policies. Where the GM had the opportunity at any given time last year to give the head coach assurances that….developing the young players who have recently been acquired is more important than wins and losses. But he did not. And you’re right, I bet it drove Daryl crazy. So Adelman is partly to blame for 2 seasons of drafting 14th and even though he’s now a coach in Minnesota, this team finishing around .500 again this year will somehow be his fault as well.
As for the direction and your car being hit by a meteor example… Like I said in the other post, Les and Stern are to blame, but not totally. And as I’m typing this, I’m sure Morey is working on something to improve this team in a big way. If he’s not to blame at all, then why have the Rockets been in the lower half of the WC? And I mean, the lower half of the conference has some poorly run organizations. It’s not always about the moves you make, but also the ones you don’t make. Not talking about all the rumormills, but perhaps the ones that he never conceived. Just as much as you can praise him, there needs to be a level of accountability held against to to this point. It’s like right now he’s getting credit just for showing up. And like all of you, I hope he proves me wrong and makes me eat my words.
If you can feel them, they are real.
then why have the Rockets been in the lower half of the WC?
BECAUSE YAO MING BROKE HIS FUCKING FOOT HAVE YOU BEEN LIVING UNDER A ROCK?!
by Only_A_Lad on Dec 16, 2011 12:37 AM CST up reply actions 3 recs
I want to take this response home to my apartment...
and make love to it.
My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased
by BD34 on Dec 16, 2011 9:25 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
here we go again....
it’s obvious you will defend Morey at any cost… You can blame Yao’s foot and sure there’s plenty of water there. But what about the injury exception Houston received because of it (unused) or a few teams lining up at the deadline wanting his expiring contract. Once again, if you’re content with the job he’s doing, you are accepting of mediocrity. Not necessarily saying he should be run out of town, but it’s also not right to claim this guy as the second coming because of some moneyball moves. I guess I am expecting chicken salad out of chicken shit too, probably why we disagree. I’m not going to resort to calling you an idiot, we can just agree to disagree on this matter.
If you can feel them, they are real.
Ummm...
He turned part of that injury exception into Trevor Ariza and then turned that into Courtney Lee.
Those interested in the expiring deal weren’t actually well reported. Still then, the Rockets had no chance at getting an actually franchise player so they rolled the dice on him possibly returning healthy. Given the cap situation it was really the only option available.
Maybe I’m weird but I pay attention to the circumstances around stuff and history in general.
My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased
Maybe I’m weird but I pay attention to the circumstances around stuff and history in general.
I think that makes you “accepting of mediocrity” or something.
Should we yell at each other about Kevin Martin now?
I mean, in a mediocre way, of course.
My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased
While you argue that Morey has made
nice transactions and and acquired nice pieces… there’s validity for sure. But to this point 2 things are apparent. Either he doesn’t know exactly what to do with them, or (and this requires taking off the morey love glasses) other teams aren’t necessarily interested in the “pieces” or “assets.”
And yes, it’s still early and there’s time for him to make me eat my words, but I guess time will tell.
If you can feel them, they are real.
Ok, so when we discussed this same general principal
in your “you’ve been had” story, I pointed out the unique circumstances that were part of why the Rockets are where they are right now…. Unlike this response where you are now all of a sudden “paying attention” to these same circumstances, you offered a response "So no one needs to be held accountable for failing to mitigate any of these consequences? " Those consequences being Yao’s injury, Adelman, tough division, etc…. So either you’ve changed your stance, or you want to have it both ways.
If you can feel them, they are real.
Are you since86 with the changed stance stuff?
I held Leslie Alexander and a fanbase that wants to compete despite the fact that Morey did mitigate the losses by acquiring young players to rebuild with. Also, not a fan of having it both ways, prefer one way.
My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased
by BD34 on Dec 16, 2011 4:26 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
well like I said in the other post....
if it’s a crime to want a GM to turn chicken shit into chicken salad, then I’m guilty. But…. history tells us that it can be done. I guess we will see.
If you can feel them, they are real.
Can be done rarely. With a top 10 lotto pick.
We don’t have a top ten lotto pick of our own to structure stuff around. He’s done well while handcuffed whereas your expectations need to come back down to reality.
DO THE IMPOSSIBLE AND I’LL BE SATISFIED! is not a very viable model for expectations.
My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased
It says something
when your critics go for throat by criticizing your big time acquisitions. Maybe he’s right. Morey clearly has no idea what he’s doing.
What’s that? Kawakami is bitching about picking up Lin off of waivers and signing Adrien to a minimum deal? Hold on, I can’t stop laughing. This is too fucking funny.
That columnist is clearly just butthurt.
The Rockets have been picking up cast offs and this year looks to be the kind of situation where we can see if they were smart to collect or not.
My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased
Kawakami? Butthurt? No. Fucking. Way.
This was the guy who wouldn’t stop bitching about FJM criticizing him a few times.
Kawakami is the master of butthurt.
Master of Butthurt.
I feel like that needs to be some kind of ceremonial designation. A butt scepter and a cape of anguish red.
My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased
Ya'll don't have to put it up
I could just stop being lazy and go watch it.
by twinkilling0303 on Dec 15, 2011 6:27 PM CST up reply actions
No one else does.
It’s time we realize this.
My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased
MEH..!
He’ll be a solid acquisition. I just hope he doesn’t over-pay for Dalembert like he did Miller.
by Moochie's Fro on Dec 15, 2011 6:26 PM CST up reply actions
I'm all for it.
If his thing is defense, why not bring him in? Might be able to help Thabeet a bit more with his positioning and what not. A Mutombo like role… only starting without an injury to our primary center.
My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased
with all this depth..
i think the Rockets are making the playoffs in this lockout-shortened season. but the question remains whether we want that to happen or just go into full tankapalooza mode.
by Moochie's Fro on Dec 15, 2011 6:48 PM CST up reply actions
Lots of time left to move Martin and Scola.
Not to mention if we whiff on Dalembert and given our record against the West, I’m not convinced we’re a playoff team.
My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased
i'm assuming Dalembert gets signed
in which case, it doesn’t make a ton of sense to trade Martin or Scola unless you’re getting a #1 or some young talent.
by Moochie's Fro on Dec 15, 2011 7:00 PM CST up reply actions
Cause Dalembert didn't play for a team like the Kings or anything last year, right?
Even if they are negotiating with Dalembert you gotta rebuild because it’s not really a team to take seriously.
My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased
Clippers press conference on NBATV
Before the conference, host asks “When was the last time the Clippers had a player of this caliber?”
>Me: Their best player in history was Bob McAdoo. Come on. It’s the Clippers!
"How will you get some depth now?"
“The same way we got the trade pieces — patience.”
35 terrible seasons from now, Chris Paul will finally have the supporting cast to win a championship.
by Only_A_Lad on Dec 15, 2011 7:14 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
"What made you want to come to the Clippers?"
“Man….. Along with the history…”
ABORT ABORT PULL UP CHRIS PULL UP GET OUT OF THERE NOW
"Did the jokes [about the Clippers] ever get hard to take? Are they over now"
lol no
They still gave Caron Butler $8 million/year, and they’re still owned by Don Sterling.
Actual best moment of press conference:
“We’ll now take the jersey picture…”
“I got number 3, right? Gotta have number three, or that whole CP3 thing don’t work!”
Can someone tell me who Bill Ingram is
he has a tweet about a rumor that the Hornets next trade will be with Houston, but the link doesn’t work.
by twinkilling0303 on Dec 15, 2011 10:13 PM CST reply actions
Bill Ingram is some douche from Hoopsworld known for notoriously bad sources and lying to get site traffic.
Don’t trust him.
My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased
Just from his picture
he looks like a douche. I found his info posted on another site, talking about interest in Okafor. He didn’t really have any details other than that.
by twinkilling0303 on Dec 15, 2011 10:33 PM CST up reply actions
for the sake of being a Rox fan and somewhat liking Okafor
I hope he’s credible on this one.
If you can feel them, they are real.
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