The Rockets, Chris Paul and Dwight Howard: You’ve Been Had
It’s been an eventful past few days with all the rumors swirling around. Chris Paul, Dwight Howard, Nene, Tyson Chandler, and Samuel Dalembert have all been hot topics of discussion. The direction this Rockets franchise is going has been confusing to say the least. They’ve been placed in this awkward spot between trying to go full bore to compete or to rebuild.
In the time since Daryl Morey took over the Rockets position back in 2007 he was charged with maintaining a competitive roster in Houston but also ensuring longevity. In that time he has brought us a trio of Ron Artest, Yao Ming, and Tracy McGrady, one of the most expensive arrays of suits to see the sidelines in Houston. His tenure has brought a lot of hope, a lot of disagreement, and a lot of questions to Houston and he’s not alone. After the jump we’ll investigate the myths and lines that the fan base has been sold and the inherent flaw in this thinking.
Myth: The Rockets are a team with a ton of assets so a deal is inevitable
The fact of the matter is the Rockets have a lot of players on affordable contracts. What the Rockets don’t have, however, are players that entice a team to go through with a deal. The current Rockets roster is the result of having to get out from under the contracts of Yao Ming and Tracy McGrady. The current roster also has a smathering of 2009’s draft picks that didn’t manage to stick with their teams. Also on offer are late first round draft picks and traded player exceptions (TPE) on offer.
When you consider the Houston roster as it is put together the collection of players on offer is middle of the pack at best when you consider PER, production, long-term sustainability, and durability. Unfortunately what gets lost in this offering of players is the simple fact that you’re not going to land a notable player (often coming from a team that is about to go into a rebuild) with a bunch of average players. The majority of our roster is unproven or a known and exceedingly average commodity.
TPE’s are intriguing for the simple fact that they can be used as a fill in for a player except in the one most critical way you need living human beings in a trade. You can combine players to make salaries match in a trade. Unfortunately a TPE is only good for that exact or lesser value. So as it stands the Rockets have chunks of cap savings that teams aren’t desperate for. Once the free agency class of Lebron James and Chris Bosh finished TPE’s were no longer the hot ticket item. The best part of the TPE is that it expires after the season starts, which will clear the air about literally getting something for nothing off a trade with a TPE.
The late draft picks the Rockets have available aren’t particularly enticing when it comes to trades because of the simple fact that you want to pick at an impact spot in the draft. That impact spot is not anything below number 10. The draft is a crapshoot but a competent scouting department can maximize their top ten pick. Unfortunately attempting to package the 14th pick with the 25th pick is not going to entice a team to give up a top 7 pick.
Myth: The Rockets assets are prized around the league
Now that we’ve had a chance to look at what these ‘assets’ are we can go ahead and assess their value. Rockets fans love to talk about deals that never were but none of us are privileged to the discussions that go on behind closed doors. We read reports of after the fact players that the Rockets were interested in and rarely get to hear the actual reason that these deals fell through. The only discernible trade we have that fell through was when the offer was on the table for a rental of Amare Stoudemire for Shane Battier and Luis Scola. The only reason that fell through was refusal on the part of the Rockets to accept Stoudemire without a physical.
Given our legitimate information is so lacking I find it absolutely stunning that Rockets fans will consistently tell everyone that their players are so valued that they come up in deal talks with major players around the NBA.
The one thing that has me consistently scratching my head is that none of these deals materialize and none of us know what was actually offered. Further, the fact that none of these deals ever materializes should tell us that what we have just isn’t that attractive. I ask you, critical readers, if I offer to sell you a car, and everyone tells me that car is worth 10,000 dollars and I tell you I want 25,000 for it because that’s what I feel it’s worth, what is the actual value of my car? I’m more inclined to take the market opinion of value than my own sentimental attachment, which is what, I believe, is the most decisive factor in this debate. Rockets fans tend to attach massive sentimental value to their players to over-estimate what they should be able to net in return. As I said before our players, as our record reflects, are painstakingly average. Lowry? Average. Scola? Average. Budinger? At best average. Our record? Average. At the end of the day, we all love Scola, but what’s he worth? His contract is at around 9 million this year and ends are 12 million, he’s in his thirties, and has had knee surgery. Now if I told you the Rockets are prepared to fling 10 million dollars at a 30 year old with knee problems at the power forward position, you’d tell me we were idiots. Instead, since he’s Luis Scola, we’re convinced he should be traded for a high draft pick from a rebuilding team or a pat on the butt from a championship contender who would clearly trip all over themselves for him? Not hardly.
Myth: Our assets are a collection of draft busts and castaways
This is the most confusing bit of double speak I see so common amongst Houston fans. In one vein we have wonderful collections of assets that teams should be fighting to get at. Then, in a later breath if we’re expected to use these players for our own purposes we’re at best average and hoping against hope that players who couldn’t stick and were lottery busts will produce anything. The Rockets have collected the 2nd, 6th, 8th, and 11th picks from that draft, all from teams with checkered pasts about developing players at the time. Everyone’s favorite whipping boy, Hasheem Thabeet, carries a five million dollar price tag. Some would have you believe Daryl Morey was forced to pay Hasheem this amount through some effort of Hasheem’s but ultimately what gets ignored in this discussion is the fact that you need bad contracts to make worthwhile trades in the NBA.
Teams want to swap bad contracts or large numbers to move big pieces, it’s how it works. Johnny Flynn was getting discredited the moment he got traded to Houston when Morey has been pursuing him for quite some time. Neglect the fact that Flynn played for a team that is notorious for squandering talent and not developing players in Minnesota and they have a point. Jordan Hill? No player on this team has ebbed and flowed so much as he has to the chagrin of so many Rockets fans. He shifted positions on the fly last year and was discredited as though he demanded to move to the 5. Last is Terrence Williams. Physically he is a specimen and his attitude is infamous. What’s lost amongst all of the critique is that although he might be a pigheaded player, he is one of the most physically gifted players on the team.
So this begs the question, do these players have ceilings or are they destined to exit the NBA for good? Further, why do Rockets fans insist on praising them when it comes to the idea of trading them away but discrediting them when it comes to investigating what talent we have on tap? It’s an exercise in hypocrisy to do such a thing but its become common. The fact of the matter is that these players were drafted where they were for a reason and come from teams with questionable history for developing players. In Houston, the focus is on big men and point guards with a special emphasis towards getting the most out of a player. Houston is one of the few teams with a D-League affiliate to ensure they can monitor player improvement in accordance with what the Rockets want to see on their team. How this is a negative, I am unsure. Thabeet put up great numbers in the Rio Grande Valley Vipers while showing major improvement in his game.
Myth: The Rockets are trying to rebuild and compete at the same time
This is perhaps the most atrocious lie that has been sold to Houston Rockets fans. Leslie Alexander has made it well known that he "believes a team can rebuild while being competitive at the same time." This ignores conventional wisdom, practical observation, and the broad swath of NBA History. The Celtics did not always have Kevin Garnett and Ray Allen, they went through 10 years of mediocrity and downright shamefulness to get the draft picks and pieces needed to deal for Allen and Garnett. The Lakers? A few years of mediocrity only buoyed into the playoffs by the fact that their division wasn’t that strong and Kobe Bryant was the best player in basketball. The Spurs? Built through drafting and intelligent scouting. I don’t even need to explain the Oklahoma City Thunder. The Heat? Drafted Dwayne Wade and gutted their roster salary-wise, along with some collusion, to pick up Bosh and James. The common thread here is glaringly obvious. If you want to contend you must pony up for a harsh road of suck.
So, my friends, why is it that we insist on lying to ourselves? I implore you just follow through with these next few sentences. If rebuilding is the floor, and contending for a championship is the ceiling, the only way to compromise between them is the middle. The Rockets have drafted at the end of the lottery and finished just outside the playoffs for two years.
We are perfectly in the middle. We are right where Leslie Alexander wants us to be. Year in and year out Rockets fans insist we are one player away or can be competitive in the playoffs. I ask you, my friends, if we fix the hole at center, shy of Dwight Howard, do we have significantly more games won to make it out of the first round? I think it’s well established we don’t have enticing players to make a trade for a key player. Why, then, does it seem to be the rallying cry that we can somehow rebuild and somehow be contenders?
The Lakers aren’t in stasis they’re improving. The Celtics are looking to infuse some young blood on a roster that is competing but the writing is on the wall, they’re going to rebuild soon. The Thunder? Firmly competing, making trades and moves to bring in win-now players. Teams heading towards their twilight understand they need to prepare for some irrelevance. Rockets fans have been force-fed this drivel about somehow it’s ok to merely make it to the playoffs, don’t expect a title if you’re not going to demand that your owner pick a direction with the team. If anyone can reconcile for me how it’s ok to have an owner who wants your money to spin the tires and fail to move rather than to have an owner who is willing to do what it takes to build a long-term movement in Houston, I’d love to hear it. The Wizards are my Eastern Conference team because of where I live and I’m actually happy with the strategy they have employed, acknowledging that it’s a long, arduous road to relevance, even in the East.
Myth: Chris Paul will help land us other players, force us to rebuild, or sign an extension.
No, he won’t. Chris Paul won’t sign an extension in Houston for the same reason free agents don’t want to come here. No one wants to come to an ailing franchise with an entitled fan-base, low level of glamour in the city, a GM who makes it apparent that everyone is moveable, and an owner that says he’s willing to spend to win but continually green lights cost slashing moves to mitigate the fact that he won’t do what is necessary to make the team relevant. Any trade that lands a guy like Chris Paul will result in having to ship out a bunch of players to return anything.
This is an unfortunate side effect of the contracts the Rockets have acquired. You have to send out a plethora of players to make salaries match, accommodate any contract dumps a team wants, and sift through what you have left over after the fact. In the case of a Chris Paul trade it would require that the Rockets give up Kyle Lowry, Kevin Martin, and Patrick Patterson, most likely some draft picks, and that’s if New Orleans didn’t want to dump another contract with Paul. The issue here is that Chris Paul has made public statements and his agent has made his intentions well known, Paul will be heading to New York as soon as he can. Whether or not New York has tons of money or players to deal for Paul is beside the point because when you’re Chris Paul, you command money in endorsements and New York will definitely open up whatever coffers it has in order to make it work.
If you’re the Rockets and want the one year rental of Chris Paul you have to reconcile the fact that you had a potential stud in Patrick Patterson sent out, along with an efficient scorer (One dimensional but a quality scorer), and a point guard that could have kept the position steady for years. Do you feel comfortable in trusting all the point guard duties to Goran Dragic and Johnny Flynn? I want to see what Flynn has in him before I make that call, I’m not sure about you.
So whom do I blame for mediocrity in this organization? Morey? Alexander? The Fans? It’s a mixture. That’s the cop-out answer but still I think it fits. I really hold little to no blame to Daryl. Daryl Morey has been doing his job and doing the best he can with his hands severely limited. I do fault him for his adherence to sports analytics and for publicly calling his players assets. They’re players, not chattel, they’re not movable assets, they’re human beings with family and you should really value what you have on hand before you start dealing people out. No point in running talent out of town before you know what you shipped out.
Alexander? I put most of the blame on his head. He’s a brilliant businessman so he knows clearly what he’s doing to make money off his franchise but I question how much he knows what he’s doing with the team now. He acquired the team in 1993, when Olajuwon was already on the team along with a lot of the foundational players around for the title runs that they went on. In recent years he has switched the Rockets from a defense first style under Van Gundy to an offensive first team under Rick Adelman. This, mind you, was for a more entertaining brand of basketball, not for one known for its ability to yield championships as Alexander had a couple years to observe the failures of the Phoenix Suns. After a few years of failure under the Adelman offense first system and a basketball team that has been tailored to run and avoid defense the gears are shifting back towards a traditional style of basketball.
The astute reader may ask: Why the reason for our change initially? Sales. People will pay to see fast paced basketball regardless of whether or not it wins because it’s a back and forth contest. The Rockets delivered on that. We didn’t have to win more than half our games because we had entertaining games, which puts people in the seats. This is why I feel the idea of mortgaging the future for Chris Paul has more to do with selling seats this year and when he bolts, Leslie can pin the fault on his GM for pulling the trigger on a "short sighted" deal. My gripe with Alexander is that he receives so much praise for essentially doing so little for his team.
The Fans? Yes. Blood is on your hands too. By buying in to Alexander’s cockamamie concept of "rebuild and compete" fans have acquiesced mediocrity. One cannot simultaneously be both here and there. Unfortunately this fact has been ignored because it’s easier to convince ourselves that we’re better than we really are. To see this team stagger out of the gate like a drunkard after last call had many fans calling for heads everywhere. As soon as a second half rally came about everyone was convinced we were a playoff team. The better question to ask is why should we continue pinning our hopes on promises that never get delivered?
Morey has acquired what he could and is handicapped by his boss yet we’re convinced a collection of mediocre things will yield a top 10 object? It’s not plausible. The expectation should be building a winner. Not building an also ran. We currently have a team that is an also ran, even if we were to sign a center. Tragically the Rockets need to elect to either rebuild OR compete. We don’t have the pieces to compete so it’s best to go the only proven way to actually build a contender. Welcome to the NBA, my friends, badly managed teams are rewarded. How else did Washington get John Wall after Leonsis got hold of the team? How did the Clippers land Blake Griffin? The Bulls get their hands on Derrick Rose? At the end of the day you have a better chance of striking gold if you’re willing to bite the bullet, the Rockets have refused to do so, and sadly, many of the fans have bought the lie.
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Ok we get it

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by Patrick Harrel on Dec 6, 2011 9:01 PM CST reply actions 2 recs
I've discussed most of the stuff here already with you, but I wonder about a couple of things
Myth: Chris Paul will help land us other players, force us to rebuild, or sign an extension.
What’s the other option there? You can be as down on the prospect of Paul staying as you want, but if he doesn’t, how does it not force us to rebuild?
The other thing I wonder about has to do with your statements about our assets. You always accuse others of wanting to have it both ways with our “assets,” saying that people overrate our role players yet you criticize going after Paul because we’d be giving up too much. You can’t have it both ways, you can’t call for a rebuild because we don’t have any really valuable players, but criticize people who want to use those players to acquire Chris Paul.
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I'm not taking it both ways.
I’m saying I think we have good young players on our roster and need to keep em’ around to take a look at them. From a strictly numbers standpoint because the Hornets aren’t just going to offload Paul, they’ll send a bad contract out with him, we’d have to send a lot of players to make numbers match.
It’s not having ti both ways to believe in the young guys and say we’d have to send too many of them out to make anything happen. It’s having it both ways to say they’re busts and castoffs but New Orleans would totally want them for their own future.
My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased
What are New Orleans' bad contracts?
Okafor? Still one of the best defensive big men in the league and a solid player at his salary.
Ariza? You mean the guy we traded for Courtney Lee last off-season?
My problem with your statement is that you say you believe in the young guys, but you think we need an all-out rebuild to get a star. Unless those guys become stars (which you admit they won’t), every one of them is completely replaceable. Patterson is going to be a great role player and defender in this league, but I don’t see him ever being one of the 2 or 3 best players on a championship roster. We’re operating from a wealth of depth and we have to be willing to take risks now.
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by Patrick Harrel on Dec 6, 2011 9:15 PM CST up reply actions
I do believe in the young guys.
A big man doesn’t have to be anything above mediocre to be franchise in the NBA, Thabeet could be there. Williams? Freaky tools at his disposal, could be great. Patterson? A legit gem, wouldn’t be shocked for him to replace Scola with more defense and a younger guy without health problems, yet people are convinced Scola can command something valuable on the market and be a major contributor to a title team? If he’s disposable due to Patterson I’d say hold on to Patterson and bump him up in your appraisal.
As for needing to go all out rebuild, development is going to cost some wins and in a shortened season, you get the same player out of the draft for less work in season, how is that NOT an awesome deal?
My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased
by BD34 on Dec 6, 2011 9:21 PM CST up reply actions 4 recs
"A big man doesn't have to be anything above mediocre to be franchise in the NBA"
Like who? Who are all these mediocre franchise centers out there right now?
But anyway, the flaw in your logic to me is if these guys are going to be so good, why do we need to rebuild? I’d rather get my hands on a star now and hope that he stays (I know, I know, you KNOW that there’s no way he passes up NY for us) rather than take that 1-100 shot that we land the next Derrick Rose or Blake Griffin in the draft.
By the way, this draft is really solid, but I don’t that kind of talent in the draft. Anthony Davis? Good, but I don’t see the star potential. Barnes? Solid player across the board, but I don’t think he has the mentality or the talent to be a complete game dominator. Drummond? Great tools, but mediocre skills and major complacency issues.
A lot can change in 7 months, but while I see a lot of guys in this draft becoming good players, even some all-stars, I don’t see the potential for a Kobe, LeBron, Wade, or Dwight to come out of this draft.
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by Patrick Harrel on Dec 6, 2011 9:47 PM CST up reply actions
You talk so much about getting your hands on a star but with what?
Our own unknown commodities? We haven’t shown them off and can’t expect someone to give us much for it but for some reason you value them as star equivalent pieces.
Mediocre franchise centers, how about this board’s wet dream for Nene? Joakim Noah? Defensive center purely, offensive production, nearly non-existent. DeAndre Jordan? Huge upside, mediocre stats, this board clamors for him as a foundational piece. Sorry to say but to be a good center in this league you have to be tall, grab 6-8 boards a game, and not spend most of your season injured.
As for the draft, it’s a risk you take if you want a better chance than praying some franchise will hand you over a major stud because they like you.
My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased
by BD34 on Dec 6, 2011 10:02 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
I'm not talking about trading Thabeet or any of the other guys for Paul
I’d trade Lowry, Martin, Patterson, and a pick for him. That’s fair for both teams. The Hornets remain competitive now with a solid, young replacement for Paul and a solution to their 2 guard issues while also finding a long-term replacement for David West and maybe finding a decent guy with their pick. That’s a pretty damn good offer.
If the Clippers swoop in and offer Jordan, Gordon, and Aminu, then the Rockets will be left out in the cold. But I personally think you have to try.
On the center business, I’d disagree with you wholeheartedly on your assessment of those players, simply because I think Thabeet has miles to go before he gets close to their level. Who knows, I could be wrong, but from what I’ve seen, I don’t see him becoming Jordan, Noah, or Nene (though I can’t say I would be too enthused if the Rockets gave Jordan 4 yrs, 50 million or something nuts like that, in fact, I’d be pissed).
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by Patrick Harrel on Dec 6, 2011 10:28 PM CST up reply actions
Hey
Shut up, you and your rationality.
by RocketDonut on Dec 6, 2011 9:17 PM CST reply actions 3 recs
Great write-up.
You nailed everything right on the head, except that you didn’t say T-Will’s going to become a superstar. Disappointing.
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by bone31crusher on Dec 6, 2011 9:19 PM CST reply actions 3 recs
Idk..sounds like he got EVERYTHING right...
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even worse! " ~Bill Watterson, Calvin and Hobbes
by TheChuckwagonisrolling on Dec 6, 2011 10:02 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I agree with most of that, but
1) The Bulls got insanely lucky getting Derrick Rose. They already had Joakim Noah (thanks to Isiah Thomas) and Luol Deng, and won the lottery with the 9th worst record after the team imploded under Scott Skiles.
2) The Rockets have some better than average players. Lowry is arguably a top ten point guard, Kevin Martin is a top ten shooting guard, and I think Patterson and Morris will be very good. Plus Chuck Hayes :) I even think Thabeet can be an average to above average center.
3) What should the fans do? Boycott the team until they commit to rebuilding?
Look I love the fact that Les wants to be competitive and that he hates to lose
But he needs to stop being so ignorant, and realize that he needs to rebuil this franchise. With the way the NBA works right now, the only way a city like Houston can get stars is through the draft. Who knows if we tank we may get our own Derrick Rose or Blake Griffin.
by TheDream34 on Dec 6, 2011 9:48 PM CST via mobile reply actions 2 recs
what the team should do...
Trade all the redundant talent for draft picks. Scola, either Dragic or Flynn, Bud or T-Will if Morris is gonna run the 3… Get as many first round picks as you can for those guys, preferably this year with very little protection and you still have a competitive full roster. Best of both worlds.
by Christopher Dion Harris on Dec 6, 2011 9:58 PM CST via iPhone app reply actions
Thats what I would do.
Keep Lowry and Martin and one from PP/Hill.
Everyone else is tradable for a pick. Trade up as high as you can in this draft and trade for the rights to a high pick in the next draft. You should be able to get like at least 3 mid first rounders out of the bunch.
Get as many high draft picks as you can and just start putting some talent on the team. We wont be very good for a season or two but I think we have enough to be competitive from that bunch.
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Sherrod Harris
It's unfortunate...
but you’re eloquence cannot hide your cluelessness. Nor your ability to go back and forth and change opinions more than the weather in Texas. Short-term greed and wanting to take things both ways. One second, your criticizing Houston fans for over-valuing a guy like Patrick Patterson, and then later you refer to him as a “potential stud.” You claim that teams must obtain bad contracts (in reference to Thabeet) to make “worthwhile trades.” And then you once again speak highly of him because of what he did in the d-league. Well what is it? A potential expiring contract or a young guy who needs development? You cry for a rebuild to take place and want to develop the in house talent. Well if there is any smoke to that fire, wouldn’t these young former top 10 picks allure other organizations as pieces or assets in a further trade? It’s like we don’t have shit to trade, but secretly we’re sitting on a gold mine.
You can blame Alexander, blame the fans, and blame Morey or whatever.. Say Les has Daryl handcuffed, but didn’t Les cut a check last year in luxury tax? According to your logic, the GM and owner have 2 totally different agendas, and that’s not correct. Sure, Daryl would probably rather tank this season but his boss doesn’t want to. Therefore, it’s not an option. You act like building a contending team must include tanking. That’s simply not the case. Were you a Rockets fan in 2003, and remember the jump they made in 2004? In 2003, they won 47 games and went to the playoffs and lost to the Lakers in the first round. That team had Francis, Mobley, Yao, and Jim Jackson. That offseason they traded for TMac and Juwan Howard, sending Francis, Mobley, and Cato to Orlando. The Rockets were 6-13 starting out the ‘04 season, before making 2 moneyball moves acquiring David Wesley and Jon Barry. The team won 53 games that season, and went on to win 50+ games 3 of the next 4 seasons. Tanking to become a winner… The exception, not the rule.
Let me tell you this as well…. I have been going to games since my father took me when I was a youngster and Bill Fitch was the coach. I can honestly only remember 2 seasons (01-02 preYao lottery, 05-06 Yao/Tmac injury plagued) where I could go to the arena that night and not expect the home team to not only be competitive, but come out victorious. That to me(we’re probably different here) means a hell of a whole lot. There are more than half of NBA franchises who would die for sucess like that over a long period of time. If you want to call that accepting mediocrity, you can call it whatever the hell you want. I call it a lot of Ws over the years and several deep runs into the playoffs. Hell since I’ve been around ‘81, there’s only been 9 NBA champions and 2 of them are 1 timers. Before you tell us all that we don’t know what the hell we are talking about and we’re being fooled, you need to look in the mirror. You appear more confused about things now than you did during the heated Thabeet debates. You can’t have things both ways, and our owner doesn’t want to lose to win… The sooner you accept it, the better off you will probably be.
If you can feel them, they are real.
by jake_471 on Dec 6, 2011 10:41 PM CST reply actions 3 recs
I didn't see too much of his "changing opinions"
He said that Houston fans are over-valuing Patterson, which most are. You can call anyone a potential stud, though. Houston fans are over-valuing T-Will, but he’s a potential stud….You CAN have it both ways.
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C'mon jake
I expect better of you. I hope BD34 doesn’t waste his time reading/responding to this. You literally misinterpreted EVERYTHING BD was trying to say. And those jabs were totally unnecessary.
Obviously we differ on how we feel about the current state
and how we got there. But that’s good. It causes for discussion. I’m open to several different opinions and views, the more traffic on here the better IMO. As far as jabs… ehh maybe. This is merely G-rated from the past. Although more civility would be nice, so I apologize.
If you can feel them, they are real.
How 'bout we just move the Rockets to Las Vegas
I’m not so crazy about tanking because these guys were all top-2 picks:
2010 – Evan Turner
2009 – Hasheem Thabeet
2008 – Michael Beasley
2007 – Greg Oden
2006 – Andre Bargnani
2005 – Marvin Williams
If you're not crazy about the Las Vegas Rockets
Here’s plan B:
2011 – Amnesty Scola (saving $8MM)…. sign DeAndre Jordan for $12MM/year
2012 – Let Thabeet, Lee, and Dragic expire (saving $10MM), trade Hill and Patterson for a couple 2nd rounders and a bag of balls (saving $5MM)… sign FA, Eric Gordon for $15MM/year
2013 – Let Kmart, Flynn, T-Will, Bud expire (saving $20MM)…. offer the max to Blake Griffin
Introducing your 2013 Houston Rockets…
PG Lowry
2G Eric Gordon
SF Marcus Morris
PF Blake Griffin
C DeAndre Jordan
by Moochie's Fro on Dec 6, 2011 11:00 PM CST up reply actions
How did we trade teams with the Clippers, exactly?
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nah.... who re-signs with a racist/cheap-skate owner?
I must be forgetting someone, but the only guy I can think of is Baron Davis, and he wanted to go home to LA.
by Moochie's Fro on Dec 6, 2011 11:26 PM CST up reply actions
uh... come again?
You apparently did not understand my point. I’ll speak slowly and use small words:
That was a list of players taken either #1 or #2 in each of the drafts, from 2005 – 2010. What that list of players (players who are all less than stars) suggests is that tanking for a high lottery pick doesn’t necessarily work out, because there are often scrubs drafted at the very top of the draft every year.
Get it?
by Moochie's Fro on Dec 7, 2011 9:42 PM CST up reply actions
There's a lot here and I appreciate the position statement BD
I agree in some measure, and not in others.
For whatever it’s worth I’m getting very very tired of "The Rockets Will Never Be Able to Trade for a Star Player" because the Rockets, did, in fact, trade for a star player not so very long ago. Tracy McGrady. At the time he was NBA scoring champ, the best passing wing of his generation, and had an unblockable shot. Closest current comparison is Durant. The Lakers seriously considered trading Kobe for TMac. The last TMac contract was gone year before last. The last Yao contract ended last year. These things matter when you talk about signing a star or trading for one.
To act as though Houston is some toxic wasteland incapable of supporting a star in any form other than a draft pick is to deny history.
How often does a team trade for a star? Not very – check the record and see. Drawing negative conclusions because the Rockets haven’t traded for a superstar within, literally, 2 years of the career demise of both superstars on its roster strikes me as extremely silly.
The cycle of NBA teams rebuilding (which is what the Rockets are doing) isn’t measured in one season or two. It’s entirely possible the Rockets will be drafting very high next season. It’s possible they’ll do very well. I think with Adelman gone, and what I believe to be a focus on playing the younger guys, a middling finish isn’t likely, and a bad season is more likely than not.
So imagine then, that we draft 1-4, and get our young star. He’s not on a roster that’s devoid of talent, like so many rebuilding teams, he’s on a young roster heading into career prime years. What’s so bad about that?
"Each in turn... volunteered his suggestions, his invaluable suggestions."
Twitter - xiane1
The Dreamshake
by Xiane on Dec 6, 2011 11:24 PM CST reply actions 4 recs
Your last scenario is the one I'm sincerely hoping for.
I want us to play young and bring a high draft pick into an environment with guys who are either pretty good or are unknown commodities right now. I would be happier than a pig in s*it to send out Martin and Scola (In my opinion the two vets who should be moved to clear up playing time for younger players for whatever we can get for them) and draft higher. I don’t necessarily think that Houston is a wasteland but being someone not from the Houston area there’s definitely not a rush to get to that city when I think about NBA Cities in America (Or, North America if we count our one Canadian team). I think the draft would be a good way to snag a guy and sell him on the idea of Houston since we can lock a draft pick up for a while and really make em’ company guys, you know?
I like the Tracy McGrady comparison but that was 2004, we’re now 7 years later, in NBA terms quite some time. But we also sent out Steve Francis and Cuttino Mobley, a quality pair at the time to return a guy like Tracy. I don’t think we have anyone of that caliber on the roster right now. Then again Tracy is a question of what if with the injury history, yea?
My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased
Sure 2004 was 7 years ago, but the contract for him ended season before last
my point being until last season it basically wasn’t even possible to trade for much of anyone, as TMac was the highest paid player in the NBA.
"Each in turn... volunteered his suggestions, his invaluable suggestions."
Twitter - xiane1
The Dreamshake
Didn't we extend him?
Also, we were able to move McGrady, but as I’ve said in other areas it’s because there was that allure of Lebron James that summer so major expiring contracts were all the rage, unfortunately that climate is gone now.
My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased
Yes, we did.
Again, though, you can’t trade for a star when you’ve got two contracts at 40ish million a year on the books, as we did most of Tmacs last season, until he went to NY.
Last year was the first year we might have had the resources to sign a big name, this year more so, but we’re not way under the cap or anything like it.
"Each in turn... volunteered his suggestions, his invaluable suggestions."
Twitter - xiane1
The Dreamshake
Kind of wish we had back the 1st-rounder we traded for T-Will
But yeah… I have to agree with this post (both the call for patience and that BD makes a lot of good points).
I mean, look at Atlanta… they’ve had all sorts of lottery picks AND signed a max FA. And they’re totally screwed.
by Moochie's Fro on Dec 6, 2011 11:42 PM CST up reply actions
It's a protected pick at least.
"Each in turn... volunteered his suggestions, his invaluable suggestions."
Twitter - xiane1
The Dreamshake
If the Rockets give Samuel Dalembert 10 million dollars a year
I’m just gonna mark it down and say the Rockets are a lost cause for a while. What a horrendous thought to have Samuel Dalembert at 10 million a year. Everything we’ve heard about the Rockets this offseason in regards to signing players, is a plan to patch this team up without getting to the real problem. Can’t wait to be picking 14th again next year
by twinkilling0303 on Dec 6, 2011 11:57 PM CST reply actions
Breaking News - Espn anal lisps report Lakers would like a forward gay-love enema. (I'm sick of espn)
BD34 so many words so little time.
I concur on some off your Beliefs but one stands out
You are wrong on Mr. Scola. He was MVP of the last worlds and has proven himself to be a warrior for this organization. Does he fit into our long term plans? probably not but he would for many other teams. Not their no.1 but their Gasol to Kobe, their Debbie to Dallas so to speak.
Hope is in the next draft and we should be leaning there. We have had a good strike rate at pick 1.
1968 – Elvin Hayes
1976 – John Lucas (seemed to have the sniffles a lot)
1983 – Ralf Sampson
1984 – Hakeem Olajuwon
2002 – Yao Ming
Basketball is Box Office and Merchandising if DM gets both and he keeps his job. At the moment the only person people will be interested in is the coach.
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Debbie to Dallas, I giggled, well done.
I think when it comes to Scola we like to overrate him. Again, he could probably net something in a trade but I think Rockets fans expect too much from him. I’m an advocate of dealing him or amnestying him but I’m well aware that if we deal him it’s not going to be for quality young talent and a draft pick, especially when you consider most teams that would take him draft later than we do anyhow.
My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased
There is 0 reason to amnesty Scola
Why on earth would you do that? Especially given what appears to be an out with the stretch exception.
And he’s well above average. As is Lowry. Just by simple definition of what average is it’s not arguable. By what we consider average, it’s not arguable either. You’re going the opposite way of Rockets fans who do overrate Scola a bit. But you’re underrating him a lot more than they overrate him. And most people already underrate Lowry.
www.TheDreamShake.com Co-Founder and Writer
Here's the thing with Luis....
it’s not about what he did last year, it’s about keeping your head up and looking towards the future. You’ve got a 31 yr old with knee problems, essentially. Sure, he was a great and productive 17 and 8 or whatever it was at the offensive end, but the guy hasn’t nor will he ever bring anything to the table defensively. Then you look at the contract, it’s definteily back-loaded, and the PF position is by far one of the easier positions to replace, notwithstanding #2 on the depth chart in Patterson or perhaps moving Jordan Hill to his better position, the 4. Honesely, if you were to waive him, teams would line up to claim him, but how much of that salary would they pick up? There’s always the business part to it as well. I would trade him ASAP for either expirings, young talent, a TPE, just about anything but long contracts and hold on to the amnesty.
If you can feel them, they are real.
Those knee problems
Haven’t really caused him any issues on the court. Most NBA players have knee problems if this are really a thing.
The stretch exception allows us to do the same thing (if I’ve read it properly and I think I have) with Scola in the future as the amnesty does today. Except we get to play Scola, or a chance to trade him now if we want.
www.TheDreamShake.com Co-Founder and Writer
If this are
is incorrect grammar.
Fire Johnson and hire Van Gundy - I'm telling you Thorn was smoking something when he let Van Gundy slip away in the night.
by diehardNFFLbarnone on Dec 7, 2011 3:12 PM CST up reply actions
There's probably not much of a trade market for Scola
While I think Scola’s crafty game will hold up well (because it’s not based on athleticism) and he’s pretty good value for his production ($9MM for Scola vs $14MM for Carlos Boozer.. bwahahahaha), you’re right, he doesn’t do much for a re-building team like the Rockets. But what contenders have cap room and young talent they’re just looking to give away?
by Moochie's Fro on Dec 7, 2011 2:56 PM CST up reply actions
The Pacers
if they wind up with David West.
Fire Johnson and hire Van Gundy - I'm telling you Thorn was smoking something when he let Van Gundy slip away in the night.
by diehardNFFLbarnone on Dec 7, 2011 3:14 PM CST up reply actions
hmmmmm...
(you meant if David West doesn’t wind up with the Pacers, right? I think they were trying to get Nene.)
I wonder if there’s a chance in hell the Rockets could somehow get Hibbert.
by Moochie's Fro on Dec 7, 2011 9:48 PM CST up reply actions
I actually think there'd be a healthy market for Scola.
Here are two that spring to mind with little reflection:
Boston – let’s KG rest, provides a post scoring punch they lack.
OKC – Again, scoring punch at the PF that they lack.
Both are teams that are in “win now” mode, with the OKC window being a lot bigger, obviously.
"Each in turn... volunteered his suggestions, his invaluable suggestions."
Twitter - xiane1
The Dreamshake
What can they offer us we can use?
A late draft pick?
"Listen here you beautiful bitch, I'm about to fuck you up with some truth" - Kenny Powers
That's a different story.
People say “No one would want Scola”
But if you’re contending why wouldn’t you want a PF who is very difficult to stop in close, was amazingly health, and is an excellent defensive rebounder. If the Rockets are way out of the playoff hunt I expect (very sadly) to see Scola go.
"Each in turn... volunteered his suggestions, his invaluable suggestions."
Twitter - xiane1
The Dreamshake
My bad...
To clarify, I like Scola. I think a lot of teams would want a guy like that. (I’d want him too, if I had Yao on my team.) But I don’t think there’s much of a market where we’d get anything of value in return.
OKC could use him, but I don’t see Presti doing it. (They’re built for the long-haul, and they need to save money to pay for Westbrook and Harden extensions.) Celtics neither because they’re in cap hell. Another post suggested the Pacers which could be a possibility.
I’d hate to amnesty Scola. That just seems wrong for too many reasons. And using the amnesty on Scola to sign Dalembert or Nene seems wrong for a few more.
by Moochie's Fro on Dec 8, 2011 2:14 AM CST up reply actions
Jake nailed my view on Scola right there. Also, I don't think I mentioned amnestying Scola here but there's context to when I say to do so.
The context is always freeing up max FA money for guys, if the proposal is to toss tons of money, amnesty your biggest contract with plausible negative future implications rather than amnesty the guy on an expiring deal this year at 7’3" that you can trot out at center, but maybe I’m just weird in thinking that way.
As with underrating Luis, I sincerely don’t think I do. I acknowledge he’s a solid rotation player and a 17 and 8 guy who lets the lane look like a layup drill. He’s a good guy to have but he, like so many other of our players, is one dimensional.
As for Lowry being underrated, I’m not sure we’re reading the same commentary on Kyle. Great second half the season doesn’t get rid of the turd he laid in the punch bowl in the first half entirely.
My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased
I’m an advocate of dealing him or amnestying him
That’s what I was referring to.
He’s not a “solid rotation guy” He’s an above average starting PF in the league.
The first half with Lowry had a lot to do with Brooks, once that issue was removed Kyle was a top 10 PG in the league. Again, not average.
www.TheDreamShake.com Co-Founder and Writer
And I'm not against trading him
That’s not my point. Though I have been in the past. I’m just flat out saying that calling a 17 and 8 guy average is specious at best
www.TheDreamShake.com Co-Founder and Writer
I said the Rockets have average and a few above average players in many posts.
You brought in the extraneous stance of my amnesty views, so I stand by my assertion that Scola is above average. As for your assessment with Kyle, if we can make excuses for inconsistent or poor play then we can justify that the Rockets are a title contender. I want to see Kyle give me sustained improvement rather than laud him as a top ten point guard because of half a season fo work.
My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased
I actually think we're more on the same page than not
With the amnesty, I was literally just replying to your comment.
Kyle has the ability to be a top 10 PG, and was for more than the second half last year. Mid December was when he started the move and by the beginning of January he was there. As was stated below, he was also injured at the beginning of the year.
And everything I’ve read and heard has said he was dominant on the playing circuit during the lockout. That he’s taken a step even further. I’m excited and for the first time since CP3 was brought up 3 years ago, I wouldn’t make the trade for him (without an extension, with one of course I would).
www.TheDreamShake.com Co-Founder and Writer
Kyle Lowry is only 25
And probably an above-average starter at the most difficult position on the court.
Lowry may not be able to carry your team to a championship by himself, but he’s a young, cheap player that serves as a good foundation to build on. Don’t get me wrong, I’d give him away for a chance at Deron Williams or CP3, but since that’s unlikely to happen, I like Kyle Lowry—and his potential to get better—as a keeper.
by Moochie's Fro on Dec 7, 2011 2:13 PM CST up reply actions
Full season advanced stats show Lowry as top ten, as well.
"Each in turn... volunteered his suggestions, his invaluable suggestions."
Twitter - xiane1
The Dreamshake
My issue with that is that the game isn't played on an Excel Spreadsheet.
Much like Chuck has great advanced stats, doesn’t mean squat for our paint defense and the layup line we offer to opponents.
My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased
I don't really know how to respond to this.
I can tell you that for the 2nd half Lowry outplayed nearly every PG he faced, you won’t believe that. But that’s my observation, and I went to or watched all but 2 games. I’m not a pro scout, but I think I’m a fairly good observer.
I can tell you by advanced measures he’s top 10, easily. You won’t believe that.
What would you believe? Lots of fawning from ESPN?
"Each in turn... volunteered his suggestions, his invaluable suggestions."
Twitter - xiane1
The Dreamshake
Let's not simplify my views.
I agree he outplayed most every PG he faced cause I watched him.
I agree his advanced stats put him in the top 10.
I need more than half a season and at the end of the day advanced stats are fun but they don’t translate into wins necessarily. Much like Hayes having great 1 on 1 defensive stats but our interior defense was horrid. He metered out well but his size killed us.
My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased
Food for thought... wages of wins
Here’s an article about Kyle Lowry’s win-shares last season.
Obviously, I’m not going to say Lowry even exists in the same neighborhood as Derrick Rose. But this advanced stat—which you have to take with a grain of salt just like anything else—says Lowry’s play does lead to wins.
Now, I agree with BD: one season, or half a season, does not a top-player make, and the game is not played on a spreadsheet. But I think we can all agree that Lowry has shown some potential to be a very good PG, and he’s young enough that we can be optimistic he will get even better. Lowry is not a star—he won’t carry the team by himself—but he can be a player who can start on a championship-caliber team.
by Moochie's Fro on Dec 8, 2011 1:45 AM CST up reply actions
I think Hayes' size was less of a problem
than the “defensive contributions” of Scola, Hill, and Brad Miller.
I think Lowry struggled the first month or so
because he was still injured. If you watch games from late November and compare them to games from January, forget about results, he was moving completely differently.
by mr. eggplant on Dec 7, 2011 12:58 PM CST up reply actions
Brooks struggle the whole season because of injury
But since he’s short he cannot use that excuse on this board. Discrimination.
Me against the world is a mismatch in my favor.
Seems as if the owner was willing
to dump a good team to get McGrady to go with Yao. No doubt it was good for business but the way they structured TMac’s contract was a gamble. Obviously it cost them.
YOu might have a point about the being named assets as if they are part of a spreadsheet but Les Alexander has shown loyalty to his players too. Francis, Sura, and a few others he kept on longer or brought back when it was not necessary.
Allowing Lowery to test the market to get the best deal he could was a smart move but smart for Lowery and the team.
You have made a good point when you described our team as having a lot of unproven talent. We might have what we need here already just needing development. So
do we offer 3 or 4 players for a superstar or wait and see what happens or secure a big man like Dalembert who can anchor a D and hope for the best? Tough calls all around.
I don’t think it fair to call Les Alexander cheap. He was willing to pay Bosh who had other ideas obviously. He will pay Paul what he wants as will he Chandler and Howard. They will come for the money if they think the team can win too.
"Do not panic, all is well" Kevin Bacon in the parade scene in the movie Animal House
On Alexander and calling him cheap.
We give him the benefit of the doubt when we say he was “willing” to do something. What did he do in those situations? Nothing. We have nothing concrete other than words and are words championships or results? Les “showed loyalty” for guys that the fans would pay to see again, like I said, he’s a brilliant businessman but we are lacking anything for the last few years to show he cares about competition more than profit.
My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased
He did make McGrady the highest paid player in the league.
"Each in turn... volunteered his suggestions, his invaluable suggestions."
Twitter - xiane1
The Dreamshake
I look at our roster
and it gives me a headache trying to figure out how to play all of our players. So many of the look promising, while the person in front of them produces. I want to see Terrence Williams and Marcus. I enjoy watching Lee and Martin(when he’s not doing the Manuflop). I love me some Scola, and can’t wait to see more Patt. Dragic looked like a spark, but Flynn could have something. I want to see Jordan Hill’s improvement with McHale, and see a true C come in. I think some people like Scola and Budinger need to be moved. I hope we can get some solid D play on the wing to make up for KMart’s “Defense”.
Well, next few days should be interesting….
Move all redundant talent and scola. Solves every one of our problems. I like Martin and if we can move Dragic, scola, and budinger for a high pick (even if we have to take on a bad contract in the process) I’d do it in a heart beat. If Golden State is the final destination for CP3, then get in the mix to help facilitate the trade (with a combination of the aforementioned pieces), take Biedrins, and get golden state’s and maybe New Orleans’ first rounders.
by Christopher Dion Harris on Dec 7, 2011 9:31 AM CST via iPhone app up reply actions
It's hard to know what talent is redundant, especially since much of it hasn't gotten playing time.
I think the purpose of this season is to find out what we have. We have a lot of deals up next year, hardly any this year.
The compressed schedule could really favor a deep team like Houston. There’s little to no drop off between 1st and 2nd teams.
"Each in turn... volunteered his suggestions, his invaluable suggestions."
Twitter - xiane1
The Dreamshake
I was thinking
exactly this as I was reading all the strength of schedule stuff. The Griz caught lightning in a bottle last season, Suns did a couple years ago, heck we might too. Fresh legs and redundant talent have to be more valuable this season than they have been since 1999.
Zach Randolph playing for a contract certainly helped.
Gasol and Gay are legit stars, but I also think Rudy Gay will lead no one to a title, ever.
"Each in turn... volunteered his suggestions, his invaluable suggestions."
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The Dreamshake
don't say that about Rudy
I have him in my fantasy sides.
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Stars?
That’s debatable. Do you think either is worth a max contract? I don’t, even with the premium you have to pay for really tall guys.
by Moochie's Fro on Dec 8, 2011 1:16 AM CST up reply actions
All True
And, also true in my opinion that they are all (with exception of Gasol possibly) essentially on the same sort of “above average” level that our guys are on. No real stars, hard working, good chemistry, favorable matchups, a break with Manu injury, and they go deep in the playoffs.
It’s lightning in a bottle, rare, but every year or so someone catches it. Youth, energy, a crazy schedule, it could be us. Especially if we can land one of those 3 centers.
Lightning in a bottle is the Detroit Pistons team that beat Shaq & Kobe
There’s always a team that gets hot in the playoffs, and the Zach Randolph (who’s considerably better than average) and Gasol combo (without Rudy Gay, I might add) were just a tough matchup against most teams, especially when the game slows in the playoffs.
The Rockets need a star to win a championship. (The Pistons model is so unlikely to happen again.) But I can see them making it to the second round with a couple breaks and another good player or 2. It’s just that we’d like to see a championship-contender, not just a team that’s lucky to win a round… Well, at least that’s what I’d like to see.
by Moochie's Fro on Dec 8, 2011 2:03 AM CST up reply actions
We have 3 roads to choose from in my mind.
1) Overpay for a good center and become a 6-8th seed playoff team.
2)Stay at the 40-44 win area we’ve been in.
3)Clear out and start over with young talent.
I pick option 3.
We already have mostly young talent
Only Scola is over 30. Most of our guys are under rookie contracts.
Me against the world is a mismatch in my favor.
Brilliant post, BD
You nailed every opinion I have on this team and even opened my eyes to a couple I was missing.
Rec.
Various observations
On our city; there are way too many pro athletes who reside here to say the city is the issue. I live in Sugar Land and we may have the highest % of pro player residents both current and retired in the country. I do believe that for several years the lack of success in sports on any level has tarnished the sports rep of the city. Thankfully that seems to be changing. The Cougs and Texans look to be on an upswing and with any luck we will get better press in the future. Sports press is all most players see when they look at a city, if it’s bad, that’s how they view the city. As an old fart, I remember when we bitched about championships, playoffs were a given.
On Les; I think it is hard to judge Les by recent events. He was in a hard box to get out of, mainly from paying player too much then watching them sit on the bench. The next few days should tell a lot about the kind of owner he is. We shall see.
On DM; much will be revealed in the next few days. He has a pretty interesting hand to play and I am going to be watching intently to see how he plays it.
On us fans; I agree that blindly going along with the BS is foolish. I had a mini ticket plan last year and when I got the email to sign up again I responded that me and my money would stay home this year, season or not. The lockout and lack of direction had me fed up. I also cancelled my cable and informed them that the NBA drama was a major player in that decision. All that might not amount to a hill of shit, but at least I did something. By the way, I really don’t miss the cable. I get less crap to choose from, but it does not take near as long to figure out that nothing is on.
The Rockets have mostly been a team that at least makes the post season lately.
Players also know that if you’re missing 2/3 of your payroll on the court it’ll show up in the results. I think one problem we’re all having is that the there is so much media on player movement and speculation about it that they weight of all that speculation makes Houston look like it’s always spinning its wheels, but the facts are otherwise.
"Each in turn... volunteered his suggestions, his invaluable suggestions."
Twitter - xiane1
The Dreamshake
Okay, I read this whole long thing and…
… I seem to agree (sadly) with most (if not, all) of it.
Now, somebody will need to talk me down from the ledge because
(in terms of being a Rockets fan only) I am totally depressed now…
.
I had to stop arguing with drunks, Steeler fans, and all other fools.
It was making my brick wall jealous...
.
Dedicated to the "Pride of the Steelers"
.
No need to be on the ledge my friend, and you hate the Steelers, so you clearly have good sense.
I think the team is still worth rooting for but I’m also of the opinion that we need to demand our franchise do something to be relevant. We have 0 televised games again and that comes as an indictment from the league that this team needs a marketable stud. The chances of us trading for one, as evidenced by our inability to do so, is minimal. The likelihood of us trading up in the draft for one? Equally as bad as we were unable to move up in this year’s weak draft. So if fate won’t hand you something over, don’t you have to knock on Fate’s door, kick its testicles in, then run off with its daughter? I want to knock on Fate’s door and run off with his daughter. By the way, Fate’s daughter is totally Jeff Garcia’s wife.
My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased
by BD34 on Dec 7, 2011 10:44 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
What?
. In that time he has brought us a trio of Ron Artest, Yao Ming, and Tracy McGrady, one of the most expensive arrays of suits to see the sidelines in Houston
He brought us exactly one of those, and it’s almost inarguable that the one worked out. Yao and McGrady were here. He extended McGrady before the injury woes. What was the point of that statement? Artest was a great fit if the other two had been healthy and was a key cog to getting to the second round of the playoffs without McGrady.
www.TheDreamShake.com Co-Founder and Writer
Brought in the sense that it was his best offering to date by combining the three.
Also, I didn’t deride him for it, by the end of the article I actually absolve Morey of most of the criticism leveled at him.
My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased
Okay, wording then
That’s just what I thought you were saying, which, as you pointed out made no sense with the rest of what you wrote with regards to your Morey conclusion
www.TheDreamShake.com Co-Founder and Writer
I thought the same thing.
Morey has mostly spent his time acquiring talent while operating with virtually no cap room.
"Each in turn... volunteered his suggestions, his invaluable suggestions."
Twitter - xiane1
The Dreamshake
And he's experienced a little mission creep
There’s a big difference between re-building a team and finding role-players to a Yao foundation. Guys like Battier, Artest, Ariza, Scola, and Kmart were great acquisitions (not just good ones, great ones.. ok, maybe not Ariza) for their value and how they were supposed to supplement Yao’s game. Now that DM has do something entirely different, there will be growing pains.
I think we can all agree that Morey has done a fantastic job, all things considered.
by Moochie's Fro on Dec 8, 2011 1:29 AM CST up reply actions
Before we start playing the blaming game...
I think it’s important to realize the EXTREMELY unique chain of events that have occured to put this franchise where it is today. And it goes back to 2 years ago or the Ariza season as I like to call it. You will still pay Yao, and he’s out for the season, so by default you’re 15 million in hole (capwise) compared to the other organiztions. That was a lost season if you’ve ever seen one. But look at everything that happened this past season….
-Going in, you’re predicted to win 50 + and be in the postseason…
-Yao gets hurt during a disastrous start, it’s 2009 all over again…
-Morey makes “moneyball” type acquisitions TWill, Thabeet, etc and trades away Brooks and Battier
-The coach, feeling no love from the front office, one ups the GM and over-achieves immensely “his way” and becomes #8 all time and gives 2 shits about player development(Personally I don’t blame him)
-The SW division finishes with the second highest winning percentage of any division ever in the history of the NBA
I think when you add all of that together, it’s the perfect (shit)storm to put us where we are right now. Not so much anyone’s fault as you make it out to be, but that’s just my opinion.
If you can feel them, they are real.
Sadly
Ariza is the one real mistake I think Morey has made. And even that ended up netting us Courtney Lee.
But that is absolutely correct. We’ve been riding a wave of ups and downs that most franchises haven’t had to deal with.
www.TheDreamShake.com Co-Founder and Writer
So no one needs to be held accountable for failing to mitigate any of these consequences?
Therefore your assessments of Daryl Morey last season were never valid, your complaints about the Houston Rockets themselves are invalid, and your commentary on the personnel on the Rockets is totally void? I just want to make sure because your entire post alleviates this organization and its players from playing any role in what has happened.
To accept your position one must admit the following as fact:
Yao was never seen as injury prone.
The acquisitions made by Morey were not an attempt to rebuild or to begin player development.
That Rick Adelman did not take over the HC position in Houston with its best roster to date during his tenure.
That external expectations of success dictate the internal performance of this team.
That because the Rockets are in a tough division they are any less responsible for their schedule than the Wizards are in the Atlantic Division.
That’s asking a pretty tall order.
My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased
don't get carried away... There are several faults...
And it doesn’t matter what it is I’m talking about, it’s Morey’s fault unless it’s related to the draft. My point is the organization had a plan, and due to some untimely setbacks, the plan changed almost mid-season. That in itself had a lot to do with why they drafted 14, and why some Rockets fans are calling hotlines because they simply have no clue what to expect at this point. Personally, I am glad they persevered through the adversity, and played some pretty good ball down the stretch. Much to the shagrin of several other people, but to each their own.
If you can feel them, they are real.
What the hell else could the Rockets have done besides what they did?
Intentionally tank seasons in order to get high draft picks? Personally, I think that would be unethical and I wouldn’t like it as a fan. You rebuild by collecting a lot of young players and eventually one of them turns into a star, or you manage to trade a package of them for a star (which as Xiane illustrated, is entirely possible).
This is exactly what Morey and his front office are doing, and they’re doing it so well that the Rockets are having winning seasons despite crippling handicaps.
The pessimism which has suddenly emerged in the Rockets fanbase following this long offseason is kind of baffling to me, as well. I don’t think this team, even as it stands, is that far from being a contender. I feel like we have a few players who are, or show strong potential to become, borderline stars, and I don’t think it’s impossible to win with a handful of those instead of one or two big iconic superstars.
http://www.crawfishboxes.com
McGrady reportedly to go to the Hawks
wipes tear there goes my offseason plan.
If you're a fan of basketball, watch a movie called Sonicsgate. It's free, just google it.
2011 Vancouver Canucks - The closest feeling to winning I've ever had.
good for him I wish him the best...
had a nice season last year in Detroit.
If you can feel them, they are real.
One thing you're forgetting about the Rockets...
We were better than the 6,7 and 8th seeds in the east last year. we are in the top half of the NBA. just because we didn’t get into the western playoffs doesn’t mean we suck. Trade scola, we already have 2 picks in one of the best drafts in history. I remember reading an article about how a kid traded and ipod on craigslist and through patience and determination eventually got a Porsche without spending any money. thats what the rockets are trying to do. buy low, sell high, increase value through development and draft. we will get there.
Several problems with that.
1.) We’re not in the Eastern Conference so that is irrelevant.
2.) We’re not dealing with your run of the mill idiot on Craigslist.
3.) This franchise is selling fans on the idea of some form of being competitive, hoping to get into the playoffs is not competitive, drafting 14th is not competitive. Fans want a direction, not a deception.
4.) We have two picks, most likely 14 and late. Deep draft or not you’re statistically less likely to get a difference maker in that area.
My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased
I thinks you're being a little pessimistic.
1) all i am saying is we don’t suck, we’re a pretty good team
2) it’s just an analogy its not perfect. and also some of these guys aren’t much better than the run of the mill craigslist idiot lets be real.
3)we get better every year despite terrible circumstances
4) there are 5 sophomores that could have gone top 10 last year that didn’t come out. 14-5=9 which means there is still top 10 talent available if we pick at 14. plus you have more film on players who are lower picks. We will get a difference maker.
How am I being pessimist? Realist, definitely.
1.) Didn’t say we suck, we play the schedule and conference we’re in, the East is irrelevant.
2.) Clearly these guys making millions and running professional sports franchises are on par with your average moron who skulks Craigslist.
3.) Define better? We had nearly the same record as last year and drafted 14th both years. Also, if you consider the arc from the 2nd round playoff team a few years back, we got worse.
4.) Your calculations are hopeful at best.
My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased
by BD34 on Dec 8, 2011 12:51 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
ok i dont get it
good write up firstly but i dont get all this crap bout tankin
Last season people where sayin rick is mad not playing younger players esp Twill and a certain center. i was on ricks side and YES he did over play our starters but i sided with him coz we cuda made the playoffs at the end. plus all players were young bar kevin and scola.
Lookin at this season if we have the roster we got now wat will happen? my guess we will have a worse record coz of new coach/system but our young players will get more time .Twill will have a second and so on but its not tankin the players want to prove they can play. they clearly not the best but they wanna show they worth the money. in my opinion they done quite well last season
sorry prob didnt make much sense so ill end the rant
oh and budinger may be below avg at best but for wat hes gettin paid i think hes a steal and perfect for the team
What might surprise you about Rocket starters is their fairly low minute count.
Kevin Martin, for instance, averaged 32 a game, and put up the 2nd highest per-40-minute scoring stats in the NBA, behind only Kobe.
"Each in turn... volunteered his suggestions, his invaluable suggestions."
Twitter - xiane1
The Dreamshake
I'm hoping for Jordan Hill w/ a slightly less low minute count this season
But it sure seems like everybody, Daryl Morey included, is giving up on him. We’re not talking about Thabeet here. Am I crazy for hoping Jordan Hill can develop into a serviceable starting C?
by Moochie's Fro on Dec 8, 2011 2:20 AM CST up reply actions
Sorry for trolling all your comments, Xiane
But it’s more about making interesting conversation, not that I disagree with everything you say.
Damn, I’m glad the NBA is back.
by Moochie's Fro on Dec 8, 2011 2:22 AM CST up reply actions
So I didnt know that we lost Jack Sikma
is that obvious since Rick left?
Season Prediction v2.5.1 beta lite: Our Houston Wrexans will finish 11-5 and go UNDEFEATED within the AFC South!
Pretty much - he's a Rick Adelman guy.
"Each in turn... volunteered his suggestions, his invaluable suggestions."
Twitter - xiane1
The Dreamshake
This is a great write up
After trying to do my own fanpost, I bow to you and the others that contribute so much writing on this site. I agree with most of your post, but I’ll just say this…I know Morey has been handicapped by a few things. He has an owner who wants to “win” while trying to rebuild, he’s had a roster plagued with injuries, but I don’t let him off the hook. 2 straight seasons with no playoffs, no real upgrade in talent, and banked on Yao coming back every time he went down. It’s not all Morey’s fault and I know he’s a good GM, but results mean everything. So far we have a bunch of 2009 draft castoffs, a big contract to Scola, and the big trade of Kevin Martin. Maybe all of this is because of the influence of Les, maybe he can’t make the moves he wants…so maybe Les needs to get a lot of blame as well.
One thing I forgot to blame on Les
and the other owners…not changing the system for the better. The great players still get to choose where they wanna play, even though there’s only a handful of teams that will ever get them.
by twinkilling0303 on Dec 7, 2011 9:44 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Man, this is wonderful
Somewhat mature exchanges of opinion on here. I have a championship or bust mentality personally. If I want to watch something entertaining without an end result being imperative I’ll watch American Gladiators. However, I think we can all agree we love the Rox. Everything else is simply details.
I am truly anxious to see if we can pull a diamond out of the rough on this roster. However, I am not so delusional to think we are remotely close to a championship contender. That is that. As far as what direction we’re going in, correct me if I am wrong here, this is what I see on here and my opinion of their negatives:
Tank- Seems a bit unethical, not a guarantee, may take several years of bottom feeding to get the stud.
FA-Unsuccessful thus far, not a guarantee to get the player to stay, may take several years to accumulate the assets needed to accomplish.
Stick with what we have and add pieces-Least probable to compete for a championship, never going to get a stud with mid-draft choices/talent, going to prolong the inevitable.
These are just my opinions. Not commenting on anyone else’s. I will say this on a final note. We all got screwed. I don’t blame DM, RA, or Les per se. They went all in on their stars. Not their fault that Yao’s body screwed him, or that T-Mac was a supremely talented lazy ass. It is what it is. Could some things have been done different? Sure. But here we are. Our time is over. There is not cavalry coming. One of two things is going to happen over the season. Either I will be proven wrong and these guys are much more talented and developed then I know and they will go on a deep run, or they will suck and other people would have been wrong. Doesn’t matter. We will still all watch because we are fans and that’s what we do.
"Listen here you beautiful bitch, I'm about to fuck you up with some truth" - Kenny Powers
by A.J. G on Dec 7, 2011 10:57 PM CST reply actions 2 recs
Wish there was a "Like" botton
I think TMac gets a little to much hate (just a smidge), but otherwise great post.
So glad the NBA is back.
by Moochie's Fro on Dec 8, 2011 2:29 AM CST up reply actions
Just referring
to his lack of practice habits according to DM, which could have made him Jordan-esque.
"Listen here you beautiful bitch, I'm about to fuck you up with some truth" - Kenny Powers
sigh...
Without exaggeration, I think we can say that TMac’s combination of athleticism, body-type, skills, and feel for the game made for the perfect wing player. Just from the physical gifts standpoint—except maybe his balky back and later, bad knee—he should’ve been better than Jordan.
Obviously, Jordan was a physical freak of nature, but I think it was his mental makeup that really made him the greatest. Michael Jordan was crazy. In any other walk of life, somebody with the uber-obsessive competitive fire/insecurities of Jordan is just a first-rate, crazy a-hole.
by Moochie's Fro on Dec 8, 2011 2:05 PM CST up reply actions
There's a rec button...
"You know how Einstein got bad grades as a kid? Well, mine are
even worse! " ~Bill Watterson, Calvin and Hobbes
by TheChuckwagonisrolling on Dec 8, 2011 10:53 AM CST up reply actions
The season hasnt started
and the discussions are in full force. I like it. Everyone get your stats, popcorn, and arguments ready. Im ready for the season, my expectations are reasonable which will lead to less smashing of things. I think under a new coach, with young players getting some PT, the Rockets can reach the 7th seed. But thats with everyones rosters as-is right now. Depending on who trades/signs who, that could change obviously. I will have my “prisoner of the moment” rants but we all have thoses from time to time. Lets get this season started.
"Stability is a factor in teams that win the championship. But if you stabilize on a team that's going to end up short of that, then all you're doing is spinning your wheels in the 45-win range."-----Daryl Morey
by fanoflosingteams on Dec 8, 2011 9:43 AM CST reply actions
Shane Battier is a member of the Miami Heat
I do not feel good about that one
by twinkilling0303 on Dec 8, 2011 11:18 AM CST reply actions
Good for him
No one deserves to play for a championship more than Shane.
The reasonable person inside me thinks the same thing
the irrational basketball fan in me says…I hate the fact he joined the dark side
by twinkilling0303 on Dec 8, 2011 12:12 PM CST up reply actions
I want a follow-up to this now...
after the Gasol trade
How many Biletnikoffs does he have? NOT TWO!
Was too far to huck a beer at a Stro’s player as per bone’s request. Jess (girlfriend) said I was too far, I said challenge accepted, a security guard said guess again.-BD34

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