The Search for Super Coach Begins
by Xiane on Apr 20, 2011 12:15 AM CDT
in Discussions about Badasses
Email
PrintOf course I'll weigh in on the Rockets' coaching situation.
So now we know Rick Adelman won't be back. Unlike some, I've got mixed feelings about this. I don't think coaches with Adelman's ability are easy to find. Adelman can make a top offense out of almost any collection of smart, reasonably talented players. Some coaches can't make a good offense with 3 superstars (Miami). And while Tom Thibodeau has got Chicago playing fantastic D, it's offense apparently boils down to
"Give Rose the ball. Let him do something awesome. Repeat." So far, that's worked. Chicago is one sprained D Rose ankle from disappearing. There is no plan B.
For all the Bulls wonderfulness and vaunted D, it's taken D Rose Miracles to get them wins against Indiana. Indiana, a team the Rockets effortlessly crushed. A team with a losing record and no really scary threats anywhere on the court.
What's the point of that? This: even a great new coach might not have everything you want. Chicago's offense is slightly higher functioning than Jeff Van Gundy's, but not much, and with much more talent than JVG had. And this is with the best new coaching prospect in a very long time, one who achieved an amazing feat with the Bulls.
Coaches who can do it all are rare. You want a leader of men, a defensive guru, and offensive genius, a teacher, a wily media manipulator, a guy who maximizes every asset and minimizes every flaw, a cold-blooded tactician, a free-thinker who nonetheless respects management, an easy-going guy who can get millionaires to play like their lives depend on it, a man the everyone respects, but who doesn't take himself too seriously, someone with boundless energy who never is ground down by the long NBA season and time away from his family, young enough to relate to the kids and old enough to have seen it all.
So by all means, let's go get that guy.
All this to say, I'm not entirely sure something better than Adelman is out there. Adelman didn't tick every box on my list, but he ticked a lot. How many will "super assistant" or "player turned coach" tick?
So we need a coach that will work well with young developing players? Well, that's supposedly Westphal in Sacramento. That team keeps adding talent, and keeps losing. Are the players in Sacramento developing? It's hard to say. Or how about LAC? Most ignorant NBA fans would probably tell you the Clippers had a better record than the Rockets, because Griffin is so so talented. Does Vinny Del Negro strike anyone as the guy who beats the steam drill of the Lakers down in LA?
So maybe we get a coach that will play TWill, but can he reach TWill? A coach who can play Thabeet, but can he teach Thabeet? Its not enough to throw the guys into the game, they have to know what they're doing.
I've watched a lot of players improve in many, many, ways under Adelman's watch. Lowry has blossomed into the best PG no one knows about. His second half was as good as any PGs, bar none. Carl Landry became an excellent player, and then regressed when he left, which tells you something. Scola learned to hit a shot with his left hand. Budinger went from a slick shooting, high flying rookie bench offense guy to a really solid all-around SF prospect. And so on.
For all the grumbling that Adelman hated rookies, he certainly integrated a lot of them, and got a lot out of them. Lots of young players too.
I'm not saying he was always right, and I'm not saying he did the right thing in never playing Williams and Thabeet, but I wonder who is going to be better.
Honestly, I wish there could have been a meeting of the minds with Adelman and the Rockets, but I can see both sides. No one is necessarily wrong, and no harm has been done. The contract ended, another one wasn't offered. That isn't offensive, but I think it might not work out as well as people think it will.
65 comments
|
1 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Adelman just wasn't feeling what the Rockets wanted to do
I would have loved for him to stay but he does not want to embrace the youth movement. If he would humble himself a bit then everyone wins but apparently he wants to go in another direction. Nothing wrong with that at all because he has to be happy with any decision he makes. I wish him well and I hope he gets a ring before e retires from coaching. He is the best coach without a ring and deserves one more than some who have one.
Me against the world is a mismatch in my favor.
lets make a trade
Scola, hill, miller for jj hickson and anderson varejao.. I love scola but we should trade him when his stock is still up.. Hickson is an athletic 4 who reminds me of a bigger taller landry.. He averaged 14ppg 8.5 rebounds in only 28 minutes this season.. as a starter with more minutes he can probably average 16-18ppg 9-10 rebounds hickson/patterson combo would be great and varejao is a center that rebounds and plays defense like a taller chuck hayes.. Re-sign chuckwagon and develop thabeet and t-will maybe under a different coach t-will can blossom he had a good rookie year in jersey under lawrence frank and even had a triple double his rookie year.. You seen flashes if he gets his head right he could easily develop into a lil iggy.. Imagine lowry, martin, and t-will running the break! Thabeet while still a project should work with dikembe and see if he can develop.. I trust the management will hire a defensive coach.. Let’s see what morey and the front office do.. Line-up
Lowry/dragic
Kmart/lee
Cbud/twill
Hickson/patterson
Varejao/hayes/thabeet/yao if re-signed
by rocket2789 on Apr 20, 2011 2:16 AM CDT via mobile reply actions
I think Varejao is the only guy they have left in CLE. Not sure they'll trade him.
Also, if Patterson couldn’t beat Hickson for the starting job I’d be floored.
But this won’t work – why take the Miller deal? What is Hill worth (not much). I couldn’t see this happening.
"Each in turn... volunteered his suggestions, his invaluable suggestions."
Twitter - xiane1
The Dreamshake
Could throw some picks and see if they bite you could also take out miller and trade lowry but with the season he had he’s cleary here to stay unless they believe dragic can start he played good the last games of the season as a starter but who would back him up? Maybe include sessions to back-up dragic? This would be tough but if we can steal hickson and varejao with scola,hill picks and a throw in miller that would be a great way to start the off-season..
by rocket2789 on Apr 20, 2011 2:35 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
So, send to a rebuilding team two vets, one overpaid, one who will be, and Hill
for a pretty good 4 and a guy who just spent damn near the entire year injured at C? Makes perfect sense for Cleveland to kill their cap space for two guys they won’t want to use.
If we have Hill and Patterson we don’t need nor want Hickson. If we’re going with a youth movement that means you want guys like Thabeet to get burn, Varejao is not an answer at center because we don’t need another guy drawing charges and playing “scrappy”, we need a f*cking center.
TDS's resident dickhead.
by BD34 on Apr 20, 2011 6:26 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I'm against this as well
- on principle. I just don’t want Varejao on this team.
The constant use of the term better is rather annoying and ignorant...
Coaches are not qualitative in all situations, as I’ve explained in great detail several times to this board. Will we get a “better” coach than Adelman? Not with the same resume, no. For the situation? Yes, we can. If you’re looking for a big name coach to come in and work on a rebuilding team it’ll take a special kind of coach to want to do that and I highly doubt one will want to do that.
As it stands, we don’t need a “better” coach than Adelman, a team going through what the Rockets are going through need a NEW coach and a NEW identity to develop with a NEW brand of basketball. Stop me when I put better in all caps as a qualification please. I think it’s something with the fans of this team that they assume they’re entitled to the best of everything and title contention regardless of reality but let’s face it, this franchise is in flux and SHOULDN’T draw a win now veteran coach. Adelman is gone because of a refusal to see eye to eye with what the front office felt was the best course of action. I hate to disappoint everyone but for all his benefits he coached us to the back of the welfare line twice and neither of the teams really cared to play basketball for the last two seasons until the second half. If you really “love your coach and system” you’d think we’d stop making injury excuses and suck it up a la Portland because clearly if we don’t have the talent, we’ve got the system, right? So either the system is the holy grail of the NBA or the team needs better talent and a different coach.
This inherently gets a bit mixed for the simple fact that with a different coach you may have a drop off but what does that drop off equal for Rockets fans? Being less in the playoffs than we currently are? That’s an amazing feat to accomplish considering we’re NOT there. So a different coach, even with a drop off, gets us a better pick in the draft, a better pick in the draft generally nets you a better player, when you get better players your team improves, when your team improves you move up the playoff pecking order. Oh my God guys, I think I’ve discovered how franchises can improve! I must sell this secret to NBA GMs…
TDS's resident dickhead.
by BD34 on Apr 20, 2011 6:33 AM CDT reply actions 2 recs
is the drop-off
something that must really happen? A better position in the draft doesn’t guarantee a better player, and these Rockets prove that talent is not necessarily what will get you into the play-offs. I still like how this team looked the last two seasons, and I’m really looking forward to next season.
I think it is not certain
but it has to be considered probable. When you take a flyer on talent that has not panned out elsewhere, some of those players might work out to be diamonds in the rough but some will just be rocks. Until they get meaningful playing time, you can’t make a decision one way or the other. The time that gets spent on the rocks might cost you some wins, but that is the price you pay.
I agree 100%
but its hard to get people outside of here to listen/believe this. Oh well the proof is in the pudding
"Stability is a factor in teams that win the championship. But if you stabilize on a team that's going to end up short of that, then all you're doing is spinning your wheels in the 45-win range."-----Daryl Morey
by fanoflosingteams on Apr 20, 2011 9:35 AM CDT up reply actions
Is the pudding Adelman or Morey?
"Each in turn... volunteered his suggestions, his invaluable suggestions."
Twitter - xiane1
The Dreamshake
For me
Im hoping result are the pudding
"Stability is a factor in teams that win the championship. But if you stabilize on a team that's going to end up short of that, then all you're doing is spinning your wheels in the 45-win range."-----Daryl Morey
by fanoflosingteams on Apr 20, 2011 3:18 PM CDT up reply actions
Wow, I never knew I was so ignorant.
Thanks for pointing it out. Fortunately, as you point out, you’ve explained things in great detail, so its possible I might benefit in some small way from your insight.
In some sense, this is all silly. We’re getting a new coach. He’ll be new. We know that. Beyond that, I’d like to think that the front office will find the guy to take us to the promised land.
It’s one thing to try to make a point. It’s obnoxious to assume your point is the only one that isn’t ignorant the minute you conceive of it. I said better, I meant better – better at any of the various aspects of coaching. I laid out the argument in what I wrote. Yes, certainly we’ll have a NEW coach. And we can hope that he is better for our circumstances, better at anything at all, really. It’s certainly possible to have a worse system and worse results than Adelman’s.
I’m concerned this new coach won’t do anything better than Adelman. Develop new players more efficiently. Maximize the talent on the roster. Win games. I guess we can be sure that a new coach will play the guys Morey trades for, that would seem to be a job requirement. But consider that this wasn’t such a sore subject that Adelman was fired, but not renewed.
I disagree with your assertion that the team only played hard in the second half the last two years. I saw no lack of effort in the first half, almost every loss was close. The mix of new players became more effective as the season wore on (we added Lee, Miller, Patterson, Lowry as starting PG, Budinger as starting SF, and the guys who never played, so they don’t really count).
The Portland comparison is a good one. They reached the playoffs pretty easily despite serious injury problems. Aldridge did step up to be a star, and they managed to make a great trade, but if any team points up the failures in the Houston approach right now its Portland. It’s interesting to be that for all the buzz about Portland building that team up it is the guys they traded for or signed who carried everything that Aldridge didn’t (Miller, Camby, Wallace, Matthews).
As for the distinction you make for in or out of the playoffs, yes, it is binary in that way. If that explained everything people wouldn’t make further distinctions.
There are teams that are “in the playoffs” that have no hope of even reaching the conference finals. There are teams that are out of the playoffs by a little (Houston, Phoenix, Utah) and can hope for better soon, and there are miserable teams that are out of the playoffs like Minnesota. You really can’t see any difference between Houston and Minnesota?
From a business point of view a team that wins 43 games will almost certainly sell more seats than one that wins 22 – despite both being equally out of the playoffs. Teams that go to the playoffs make more money typically than those that don’t – if not in future seat sales than because of high ticket prices and a likely sold out house for at least 2 more dates.
Anyway, no doubt you’re right and I’m wasting my breath here. How could it be otherwise?
"Each in turn... volunteered his suggestions, his invaluable suggestions."
Twitter - xiane1
The Dreamshake
Had I known you invested that much of your personal feelings and pride in a post I would have shut up.
I called a term comparing coaches ignorant, not you, your choice to include yourself in the classification is not my problem. Your belief that I feel I am never wrong is taken in a backhanded manner because I disagreed with you. If that’s the case I expected better of you.
When I reference the playoffs I do not draw a distinction beyond Minnesota and Houston other than Minnesota is in a better position to get an impact pick and change their fortunes whereas Houston has to settle for whatever they can get in their position.
Have teams traded to remain relevant? Certainly. Do these teams have foundational players? Yes. How did they get these players? Most of them drafted the player (draft day acquisitions are counted). Houston does not have that transcendent player to build around (without the benefit of seeing what increased play time can do for guys like terrence williams and hasheem thabeet). Until we land that player we are spinnig the tires.
TDS's resident dickhead.
by BD34 on Apr 20, 2011 9:54 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
for a team like houston
which has so many pieces and is so close to the end goal, it almost seems like a better idea to trade for a high pick rather than tank (which I don’t think this team can do, anyway).
a guy like courtney lee or chase budinger could be a nice addition to a team currently out of the playoffs that have a low draft pick. of course, we probably don’t want to do that this year, since there is no eminently obvious transcendental talent in the draft.
click here for: nba playoffs 2010-11 predictions
Player development will cost a few games a year but who said tank?
TDS loves to assume if you develop players you’re losing intentionally and that’s not the case. It’s part of the cost to rebuild to lose a couple but if you’re going to think we’re tanking if we develop players where is the logical extension on being out of the playoffs being indicative of not being good? It’s a picking and choosing of where to apply the thought.
We won’t be tanking, we’ll be looking for a franchise player via draft, trade, or internally. That’s what we need, this is how we’re going to go about figuring this out.
TDS's resident dickhead.
by BD34 on Apr 20, 2011 10:14 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Nice distinctions but no.
You don’t need to shut up, you have good things to say. Its how you say them. There’s a line between strong opinions and being a jerk for its own sake. My sense is that you know where that is, but don’t particularly care.
I write what I write here in good faith, without compensation or an agenda towards anyone except possibly Utah, LA and Boston. I’m happy to have give and take but when the point of the reference piece is, roughly, a new coach won’t necessarily be better and your post title is: “The constant use of the term better is rather annoying and ignorant…” , what am I missing?
I’m also not sure the costs of getting those very high picks don’t outweigh the benefits. Some teams almost never get such picks and remain strong, some get them all the time and are always weak. The weakening of the fanbase in terrible seasons is worthy of real consideration in my opinion. We’ve seen the tank and build strategy executed well (OKC, Portland (though the build has largely been trades for wily veterans due to injury) but the overwhelming majority of teams picking 1=5 seem to be there a lot, for no real result. I’d like to think we’d be different in such a case, but I’m not sure. In any case, I think the rebuilding has been going on under our noses, and it was a failure to participate in it that lead to Adelman’s departure.
"Each in turn... volunteered his suggestions, his invaluable suggestions."
Twitter - xiane1
The Dreamshake
I was certainly missing tact because when I say it's ignorant I'm referring to the overuse of the idea.
I’ve communicated it often and I think supported it well (Since it’s never really been challenged) that a “better” coach is a subjective thing and not necessarily applicable because, well, we’re rebuilding. We need a coach to grow with and foster. Development takes place on both ends. at the end of the day new might wind up developing in to better. I mean, some things need the right fit to be good, others are good on their own. Some of those specific match things are better than the run of the mill “better”.
Again, I want to cite the fact that the perennial bottom feeders are there with poor management and disenfranchised players from a poor coach. Management here in Houston has history, a strong front office, and commands respect to their coaches, I don’t see this being much of a problem. Fans lauded this team so much for all of that this season but now, when push comes to shove it gets abandoned for fear? I struggle to find the reasoning behind that.
Also, I understand all the content here is voluntary and I certainly didn’t intend to instill this much anger and I did lack tact in my communication of it but by no means can you accuse me of being someone who derides you or any of the contributers writing as I generally applaud it and state my disagreements with deference towards you guys. Something here was taken worse than it was intended and something said was not stated like it should have been, these mistakes happen.
TDS's resident dickhead.
No worries then - let's move on.
I appreciate your commentary here and elsewhere.
You read interviews with “real” writers and they say things like “you just have to do your best and then let it go” and it sounds like so much BS. But it’s really not. This is only a tiny audience in comparison of course, no inflated idea of my importance in the scheme of things I assure you. Even so, the fact you know somewhere between dozens and thousands (that’s TDS’ distribution on a given piece) of people are reading what you write, changes your outlook.
I agree with you that which coach a team can benefit most from varies with circumstances. My question, and it’s a serious one, is whether we’ll find a coach that improves our situation from what we had with Adelman. I trust management, but its easier said than done.
As for the tanking, I know its not that. You play the guys you think are your future, and let the chips fall where they may. I get that. I do wonder if the guys Adelman didn’t play were basically unplayable as they stood, with no real way to improve that and that he did what he could. The thing that brings that notion into question is that those guys got no garbage time, when it was broadly available after the ASG when the Rockets were routinely crushing weak teams.
"Each in turn... volunteered his suggestions, his invaluable suggestions."
Twitter - xiane1
The Dreamshake
When it comes to whether or not a couple of players can improve I look at the two and how young they are and
one cannot really argue that they should and can improve. We’ve got a lot of information now that Rick didn’t agree with any of the trades made this season. When we combine all of the factors of this season (No extension, unstable future, youth movement via trades, and Rick’s opposition to those trades) I think it becomes possible to see why they didn’t get playing time. There certainly was an element of spite and we’ve seen repeated incidents of NBA coaches doing certain things just to piss someone off.
As for the coaching situation, when you say “improves our situation” it has to be taken into consideration that we are purposely taking a step back so that we may improve. So if we approach it that way, we’re going to have to find a new coach that can lose a bit but also give players experience and knocks on an NBA court in meaningful minutes and grow with it. Morey and Les are acknowledging that internal development means as much, if not more, than bringing in a stud free agent or a major trade for a marquee player.
TDS's resident dickhead.
a bit of an oversimplification
So a different coach, even with a drop off, gets us a better pick in the draft, a better pick in the draft generally nets you a better player, when you get better players your team improves, when your team improves you move up the playoff pecking order. Oh my God guys, I think I’ve discovered how franchises can improve! I must sell this secret to NBA GMs…
If this works as foolproofedly as you suggest, then we’d be seeing a consistent cycle between the good teams and the bad teams. You wouldn’t see teams like Minnesota, Sacramento, Washington, Cleveland (minus LeBron) languishing at the bottom year after year, by your theory.
Now, the argument is that our FO is good enough to pick the kind of players that will pan out in the NBA and stay longterm, so we won’t end up with a bunch of could-have-beens.
click here for: nba playoffs 2010-11 predictions
If I'm guilty of oversimplification you're guilty of misapplication.
I should have said competent teams do it properly, the teams you cited languish the bottom due to horrible drafting and front office decisions. Washington and Sacramento are in the midst of rebuilding and defy classification in your argument on that ground. Cleveland JUST lost Lebron, so I don’t see how they’re perennial bottom feeders already.
TDS's resident dickhead.
by BD34 on Apr 20, 2011 10:10 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
CLE have been bottom feeders for as long as I can remember
It took a truly transcendental talent to change them, and their FO did nothing valuable to build around him. Regardless, your theory still has holes in it. Our FO may be better than others, but if the Rockets continue missing the playoffs, Morey will be on the chopping block. Les won’t just give him as much slack as he wants.
Besides, I was just responding to your sarcasm (see “I must sell this secret to NBA GMs”). It is obviously not as simple as getting high draft picks and turning them into a good team. There are many other things at play, including a good FO, good scouting, the team actually having good chemistry. Drafting high is certainly not the guaranteed solution to improvement that you make it out to be.
click here for: nba playoffs 2010-11 predictions
You forgot to mention that
Washington and Sac both have franchise players. Sac actually has two of them. Both of those teams are going to be scary good.
Me against the world is a mismatch in my favor.
I would’t call Cousins a franchise player yet. His attitude could easily prevent him from progressing, and if that happens, he will likely be cited as an example of the horrible drafting that keeps the bottom feeders down. In reality, there are a lot of draft picks that look good at the time, but still end up being busts.
Take Greg Oden for example. People have pointed out in similar threads that OKC has done a great job, but Oden demonstrates how much luck has played into their rebuild. Not only did they luck out in getting good picks through the lottery, but Portland easily could have chosen Durant. OKC then would have chosen Oden, and we wouldn’t be standing here talking about how great their rebuild was.
There are definitely teams that make some pretty poor choices with their high draft picks, but there are plenty of players who are unanimously considered good picks and still flame out, or are derailed by injuries. There are plenty of teams that have terrible seasons and are screwed over by how the ping pong balls fall. And there are plenty of teams who have terrible seasons and are screwed over by a weak draft class.
Overall Point: OKC’s rebuild is a huge outlier. Even a team with a terrible record and an intelligent front office can fail to grab a true impact player in the draft.
Side note: how would Houston even go about rebuilding through “tanking”. We have too many good players and too much depth. Even if we were completely obvious about trading / benching guys like Lowry, Martin and Scola, its not like Dragic, Patterson and Lee are going to lead us to a 15 win season. Seems to me like such an effort would alienate the fan base, and secure us the 8th pick in the draft instead of the 14th.
by seanbergmanrules on Apr 20, 2011 4:46 PM CDT up reply actions
I didn't know Cousins's attitude was going to prevent him from making a jumpshot
I swear people play too much into the “character” thing. If you can play ball and you have talent and you play well when you are in the game then I see no issues. People were saying the same thing about Artest and Rasheed but they both have rings and had stellar careers.
Me against the world is a mismatch in my favor.
First: Cousins shot .430 this year. As a center. So something is definitely keeping him from making a jumpshot. And there’s a difference between being standoffish with the media and having no work ethic. From what I’ve heard, Cousins is the latter. Being a jerk won’t keep anyone from making a jumpshot. Being lazy will.
by seanbergmanrules on Apr 20, 2011 6:19 PM CDT up reply actions
Again, they do if they have a work ethic. Cousins does not.
by seanbergmanrules on Apr 20, 2011 10:25 PM CDT up reply actions
Shot .430 his rookie year as a center in the NBA.
Show me one center that shot 90% their rookie year please.
TDS's resident dickhead.
I looked at some great centers.
Most shot around 50%.
The highest I found for rookie years amongst “great” and fairly recent centers was Shaq -56%, Hakeem 54%, Robinson 53%. Those are higher than Adul-Jabbar, Moses, Walton, Chamberlain and a couple of others.
Great center seem to top out at around 58 FG%.
"Each in turn... volunteered his suggestions, his invaluable suggestions."
Twitter - xiane1
The Dreamshake
Thanks for doing the check on that.
I mean, we’re talking DeMarcus Cousins getting knocked for shooting 43 percent in his rookie year, which is a hasty judgment for a guy who is arguably going to be the best pro out of his draft.
TDS's resident dickhead.
I'm very high on Cousins
I’m just saying that he didn’t set the world on fire like some other young centers, but I don’t think anyone thought his skill set or polish was on the level of any of those guys – Hakeem, Robinson, or Shaq. But the potential is there – he’s an amazing ball handler for his size, he’s a good passer, he’s got a nice shooting touch, and a nose for the ball off the boards and is an instinctive shot blocker. 2-3 years in college would have helped him a lot.
"Each in turn... volunteered his suggestions, his invaluable suggestions."
Twitter - xiane1
The Dreamshake
Cousins, could be a franchise player, depending on how things turn out.
I wouldn’t take Evans for free. Not joking.
Minnesotan Rockets fan
daryl morey is chubby
click here for: nba playoffs 2010-11 predictions
This is correct.
"Each in turn... volunteered his suggestions, his invaluable suggestions."
Twitter - xiane1
The Dreamshake
Looking for the pony
In case some of you have never heard the story;
A little boy get locked up in a room full of horse manure. Shortly, the little boy knocks on the door. When the door is opened, the little boy asks for a shovel. When asked what he wants a shovel for he replies, " with all this horse manure in here, there has got to be a pony here somewhere"!
RA was not into looking for the pony, can’t say that I blame him. It is hard to put that quality into words, thus the rather vague language used by DM to define what he is looking for in a coach. With all the variables in play, weak draft, no CBA, lack of bling factor to attract a big name FA, you have to take your best shot and hope for the best.
Adelman
He was a great coach, and if he and Morey had agreed on a few things, he would be fantastic to retain. Unfortunately, what he wanted to do and what the FO wanted to do were clearly different.
If I had to guess (and really, I have no solid evidence about this, so don’t quote me), I would posit that probably Adelman thought the roster was actually pretty decent, and that with some stability and practice they could make some playoff runs without any major shakeups. The players all seemed to think they could make some noise the past couple months.
The front office, obviously, doesn’t feel that way. The truth, in the end, likely lies somewhere in the middle, but there’s no way to ever know, really. Les agrees with Morey and they’re going to keep making moves until they have a top 5 player or whatever. Adelman won’t be the coach for that, and that’s too bad, but it can’t be helped.
All we can do is trust the Rockets organization to get things done. And figure out why everyone keeps hurting their ankles.
I think Adelman will definately coach somewhere next season
any team would be lucky to have him.
by twinkilling0303 on Apr 20, 2011 11:43 AM CDT reply actions
I think Morey wants to try something really different
I saw an article a few days back about how a few teams are contracting with a start up company that will provide statistics about games that have never been available before. I think Morey wants someone on board that will at least listen to what he can provide in terms of data and adjust accordingly. This is pretty much “Brave New World” territory here and I’m thinking Rick had other ideas. Rick was of the “get me a real center and I’ll show you some new data” mindset.
All this with the stuff Morey was saying at the press conference has me thinking someone like Mario Ellie could end up here. Mario has the cred with the players that three rings brings and he wants the job badly enough to listen to the stuff Morey is proposing.
Do advanced metrics help in quantifying defensive prowess?
If not, could that lead to more offensive minded teams/managements? I only bring that up because the article mentioned the Warriors and the Rockets, both teams known for their lack of defense this year.
I think the idea is to help define what works for you
on both sides of the ball. K-Mart gets a lot of grief over defense on this board, but he jumps a couple of passes that end up in dunks each game. If you could give him an idea of when that was most effective, he might get one or two more. You get three or four a game, thats plus 6-8 as opposed to 2-4. Do that over five or six areas, and you are still playing right now.
Will it work, who knows, but if it does I want us to be doing it.
So it would lead to offensive-minded teams, or it wouldn't?
If you could give him an idea of when that was most effective, he might get one or two more.
I don’t think it’s as simple as “telling him when he should steal some passes.”
I guess when I say defense prowess I mean stopping the other guy from putting the ball in the basket, something that is really only quantified by opposing FG%. My question was, do advanced metrics help show how good players/teams are defensively?
I don't think it would
That tends to be a coaching thing. Data does not have a bias in my experience. It could be used to support whatever bias the head coach already had. I think the way Shane used to prepare is a good example. He would pour over every bit of information he could find about the team/player he had to defend. Seemed to work pretty well for him, but he was biased toward defense. I think Morey is looking to make that type of information more available to the team. It would seem that the smarter players would use the information to improve weak areas, most of which in our case are on defense.
Oh so it's more of a "helping the improvement of our players"
That’s a great idea. So maybe if a developing player (or a player in general) is having trouble with something, not only would coaches point that out, we would have stats that proved/disproved the validity of their statements, or showed something else that was wrong
I guess I from the old school
I think you need to earn opurtunities. In my opinion a coach’s job is to win games. A GM’s job is to provide the coach with talent. Sure both of them has to plan for the now and the future. A Coach should lean a little more toward the now. Rick did everything possible to win now with what he was given. I think he did a lot better job of developing young talent than some will give him credit for. I keep hearing he would only play young players when forced to do so, like that means it does not count. He said repeatedly that young players need to make the most of an oppurtunity. They get more time as they EARN it. He was consistant. Is that not the 1st step to built stabilty. Landry and Brooks did this as rookies. Scola though not as young did this as a rookie. Bud did this as a rookie. Patrick did this as a rookie. Lowry, Lee, and at the end Dragic are young players getting oppurtunities.
T-will got as much time as Patrick at 1st but did not have the results. Hill has gotten lots of chances. Thabeet never got a chance, but I think he would be next year wth some more work.
The bottom line is our core of players did their job by playing their best by working with the coach to do whatever the could to win. It did not start coming together till the end of season. The only thing you can fault the coach and players for is that maybe it took too long. But they did put an identity to this team.
Morey failed to provide them with the center that they needed. That is not Rick or the players fault. I am a Morey fan and think he has made sound decisions to improve this team and has gotten us in a better financial space with the cap. Morey failed to get a center and I am hoping he proves that it was not another failure to not resign one of the best coaches ever.
Reading between the lines...
of the various things made public(a good way to get cross-eyed I know) it looks like:
Adelman wanted to stay,but he wanted veto power over trades.
He doesn’t mind developing players,he just wants to do it at his pace,taking the time to get them to the point where when he does give them minutes they don’t screw up his offense and defense for the rest of the team.
Morey would keep Adelman,but he wanted Adelman to understand the team was going to keep looking for a star player. And that means there will be roster turnover and therefore Adelman needs to speed up the development process by playing the kids before they were fully ready so that they could step in quicker when others were traded(or made the youngsters more valuable in a trade).
No real GM can accept anyone other than the owner having veto power,just as no coach whose system requires chemistry,trust,time and sacrifice can accept having an ever-changing roster.
A mutual split was the result.
Except.
That’s not really the whole truth. Les had soured on Adelman and Rick needed Morey to convince Les to re-hire him. Adelman didn’t just need to iron out a working relationship w/Morey,he needed Morey to be so convinced Morey would argue Rick’s case w/ Les.
Didn’t happen and good-bye Coach Adelman.
Not the way I would have gone,but it’s not my decision.
A curious note in this is that while Adelman’s team have significantly regressed after he left,and he’s quite popular w/the fan base,his previous employers are pretty adamant against hiring him again. He seems to have burned his bridges w/the upper management of his previous teams.(Altho they had owners who liked to be involved. Maybe he needs to find a team w/an absentee owner.)
One last thing. Adelman has been pretty much loved by all his significant former players,w/the notable exception of one Tracy McGrady. While this may speak volumes about T-Mac,I bring this up to point out Les loved him some T-Mac until the break-up,where Les took Adelman’s side. Now that Les has fallen out w/Adelman…we could see another Steve Francis returns type deal. Extremely unlikely,but now just a tad less so…and I’d really want to see if flames could actually be transmitted across the Internet from grungedave’s post ;)
100%
Morey and Les will only settle the roster when they have a Franchise Player.
Rick was complaining about the roster 2 years ago (too many wings) which happened after Yao went down.
The content of the text above is provided for information purposes only. No claim is made as to the accuracy or authenticity of the content. The troll does not accept any liability to any person for the information or advice (or the use of such information or advice) which is provided in the text above.
This just about
encapsulates everything that I have been thinking about throughout this whole mess. I wanted Adelman back, but I understand. We need a new coach, but none are good. We need stability, but everything is up in the air right now.
How many Biletnikoffs does he have? NOT TWO!
Not a good year for a lockout.
I guess it never is but the Rockets have a lot to settle. It will be harder if we have a shorter off-season. No summer league is not a good thing for a team full of young players. We need our team and coach together for a full training camp.
and yet we shouldn’t get caught up so much with winning right now, but with developing the young players and see if they can stick
I honestly think the lockout isn't going to last that long.
I think if the owners can present some valid numbers there should be common ground fairly quickly. The players lost badly in the last lockout, they know this. The owners didn’t particularly enjoy 1/2 a season without a team either. There’s no question of “replacements” like in the NFL – NBA fans apparently know who’s good and who isn’t.
Anyway, I think the season starts more or less on time.
"Each in turn... volunteered his suggestions, his invaluable suggestions."
Twitter - xiane1
The Dreamshake
I think we will start on time
But no summer league will hurt our young players and a short off-season limits the time for trades and signing free agents. That can be good or bad. The big thing is having a full training camp for the new coach to connect with the players.
That may be true
Or it may not. I hope you’re right; the idea of losing any amount of next season depresses and angers me. I’ll be like the hulk trying to open a can of cat food.
However, we just have no idea what to expect for the next CBA. Like… every team has plans, ans they say stuff like “2007: trade for kevin garnett” and “2010: install steel bones in yao ming.” THen you get to 2011 and there’s just a huge question mark.
And it’s underlined.
Clearly, Rockets FO has some plans that assume things mostly stay the same. But in the case of like a hard cap or some other radical change, we have no idea and can only hope that Morey proves up to the task.
Personally, I’d love to see a hard cap. So would Morey. But it would certainly change everyone’s plans.
Do you really think the CBA will change that drastically?
I know people have been saying “The FO can’t make any decisions because they don’t know what the CBA’s going to be like”
But will it really change so much that they can’t make some predictions concerning their plans?
All signs are leading to a complete rebuild
Unfortunately, and like I said in other posts… This isn’t a loyal city. The Astros and Texans can suck and it will actually generate more interest if anyone has paid attention the last two years. The Rockets however, will become extremely irrelevant. Yes, there are a small sample of people like us who will follow them all day every day…. But a 30 win season will impact the bottom line, whether or not that tall Chineese guy is here or not. Remember the 2005-6 Rockets, the 34 win injury riddled team, ya know when Juwan Howard was the go to guy… Check these numbers out
Attendance
2010-11 20th
2009-10 19th
2008-09 16th
2007-08 16th
2006-07 21st
2005-06 28th
2004-05 23rd
So while it may not be tanking, at what cost will this change be?
Funny how Memphis' ****-up has become Houston's obsession
These are actually
total attendance numbers, and not the mean or average of capacity size. But you get the picture. Houston isn’t LA, NY, Chicago, or hell even Dallas when it comes to market. To lull a premier free agent here (goal according to GM), we are going to have to pitch a hell of a sell. This is not a desirable NBA city. You’ve got a team with a history of not extending contracts, low-balling GM, and everyone’s expendable publically. What player is going to want to come here? What agent is going to want their player to come here? I have a feeling that this mediocre 43 win season will be looking pretty damn good by this time next season. Yes, sometimes you have to lose to win, but that’s a huge gamble. If it goes south, this city will turn on the Rockets and it will not be a pretty site.
Funny how Memphis' ****-up has become Houston's obsession
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
NBA Playoffs Content Module
Related FanPosts on The Dream Shake
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recent FanPosts
In Association With
Ball Don't Lie - NBA - Yahoo! Sport
- C-a-C: This is probably as close to LeBron James working with John Waters as we’ll ever get
- Dwyane Wade’s hot pink pants: The kind of thing you can get away with when you drop 41
- Lamar Odom to New York? Dwight Howard on the move? For now, it’s all talk
- David West hilariously denies each and every one of his young fans a high-five (VIDEO)
- Behind the Box Score, where the Miami Heat are moving on to the conference finals
