The Dream Shake Regular Season Awards: Defensive Player of the Year
by Tom Martin on Apr 22, 2011 2:32 PM CDT
in Discussions about Badasses
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PrintIt wasn't the regular season that many of us expected, but given the circumstances, an impressive late-season run and another near-playoff miss could serve to provide a sturdy foundation for the future. But now that it's over, it's time to hand out awards. In this case, you get to vote on who wins. We'll have a different award to hand out each day, so keep checking in. Feel free to discuss your reasoning for making a particular vote in the comments.
Previous Awards: Most Improved Player - Most Impressive Victory
Once again, there wasn't a whole lot of defense this season, despite improvement over the second half of the year. Particularly, the Rockets struggled in late-game situations and ranked near the bottom of the league in fourth quarter points allowed per game.
That said, go ahead: pick your defensive player of the year. With Trevor Ariza and Shane Battier gone from last year's squad, who stepped up to pick up the slack?
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Chuck
Really no argument otherwise in my opinion. Despite his size, he constantly held players well under their averages and forced them into brutal shots. Lowry, while very good, is nowhere near the elite level Chuck is.
It's easily Chuck
I voted for Lee though, because I just like Lee.
If you're a fan of basketball, watch a movie called Sonicsgate. It's free, just google it.
I chose Lee because he played for the Nets last season.
Fire Johnson and hire Brown - I'm telling you Thorn was smoking somethin' when he let Brown slip away in the night.
by diehardNFFLbarnone on Apr 22, 2011 3:53 PM CDT up reply actions
Chuck,
but I voted for Lowry. He shut down some great point guards.
"Hakeem couldn't kick your ass cuz you were too
close kissin his!"- Sir Charles to Kenny Smith.
Shut down?
Who? He’s a good defender but not a great one.
Me against the world is a mismatch in my favor.
dear god
That was a bad comment. He’s elite and easily the best pound for pound low post defender of this generation.
At 6’6’’’ with NO athleticism he was able to bother and annoy all of the best offensive post options in the game.
Name me anyone in the history of the nba like that. He’s kobe’s height and goes against guys half a foot taller than him on a nightly. Not only does he hold his own, he excells.
How in the world he rebounds at all is a testament to his knowledge and we’re talking about a guy who has to strip a ball to effect a shot.
There is no other center I’ve ever heard of who can do the things he does with absolutely no ability to block a shot.
Not a person on this board would disagree with me when I say that if he were 7ft and could jump, we’d be talking about a perennial all-defensive first team selection kinda guy.
I will agree that he isn’t able to purely shut people down due to his afrementioned weaknesess but that has nothing to do with a lack of skill.
The fact that he can do what he does at this level at all gives his physical atributes should speak volumes.
If half of his skill rubbs off on 2p, who has legit height for a pf and excelent hops, we’d be getting an amazing player going forward.
He’s clearly our best defender, just sucks that he’s too short to truly worry opponenets at the rim.
Outside of chuck, id have to give it to lee. That kid is spectacular all around. Combined with lowry and twill (if he ever gets to play) we have a good shot at being able to stay in front of a lot of threats if they are utilized properly.
I know thi statement will be met with incredulty but martin and bud realy started commiting more to that end of the ball as the season drew to a close. Let’s all pray that they continue to work on it because while they will never be elite defenders, they may not be such a glaring liability going forward especialy if we get a coach who can get us to play solid team d.
Sorry batman, didn’t mean to go at you like that, just feel like you should take a closer look at our record when chuck starts and point differential with him on the bench, etc.
"Never underestimate the heart of a champion"- Rudy T, all up in that azz
by ShookednShanghaied11 on Apr 22, 2011 9:49 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
ooops
Big reply fail on my part. Didn’t realize you were talking about lowry. Maybe I should pay attention before I get my panties in a bind.
Ironically I agree with your comment in regards to lowry. He is solid on d, not amazing. Next to brooks he is a god though
"Never underestimate the heart of a champion"- Rudy T, all up in that azz
by ShookednShanghaied11 on Apr 22, 2011 9:52 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
He owned CP3 this season.
He destroyed Rondo on both sides of the court in our second meeting against the C’s.
He shut down Steve Nash at least once or twice, which is difficult to do.
Derrick Rose usually wrecked him, as he did every other PG in the NBA.
He played against Russell Westbrook with some success.
You understand that Lowry may be on the NBA All-Defensive First Team right?
"Hakeem couldn't kick your ass cuz you were too
close kissin his!"- Sir Charles to Kenny Smith.
by bone31crusher on Apr 22, 2011 10:01 PM CDT up reply actions
PG's who are better defenders than Lowry
- Chris Paul
- Rajon Rondo
- Russel Westbrook
- Chauncey Billups
- Devin Harris
- George Hill
That is not in any specific order but you get my point. Stop being a homer and just keep it real. Lowry is a good defender and not a great one. Just because he is a Rocket does not mean you have to overrate his strengths.
Me against the world is a mismatch in my favor.
The fact that you have Harris and Billups on your list invalidates it completely
Anyway, Hill is more of a 2-guard than anything, at least with the Spurs.
Harris can be a good defender, but his effort wanes and he’s gotten to be too weak in recent years with injuries. Billups can’t stay in front of quicker PGs much like Derek Fisher (obviously Billups is to a lesser degree, but still it’s an issue).
Just because we are Rockets fans does not mean we can’t recognize a great defender when we have one. We’re not just being homers, John Hollinger had Lowry on his first team, Kevin Pelton of Basketball Prospectus did as well, Evan Dunlap of BQRMagic did it, and many more surely did so as well. We’re not just being homers, we just recognize talent when we see it.
by Patrick Harrel on Apr 22, 2011 10:34 PM CDT up reply actions
I recognize the talent and in my opinion Lowry is not an All-Defense guy
He is good but that is about it. Great defenders shut guys down and lock them up like Chris Paul did to Lowry in the last game against the Hornets and like Rondo did Aaron Brooks in our first game against Boston last year. Lowry does not get burned but does not shut his man down either. That is why he is not an All-NBA-Defense player. He gets a lot of the “great defender” talk because he scraps more that any other PG not named Westbrook or Rondo. Good but not great. He can be great but he is not there yet.
Me against the world is a mismatch in my favor.
Billups and Harris are misplaced IMO too
The Dream Shake ...on Twitter.
"I think girls are probably just better shooters." - Steve Novak
So I can't be a homer with Lowry when he's playing great,
but you’re allowed to be a homer with AB when he was playing pathetic……….Makes sense to me.
"Hakeem couldn't kick your ass cuz you were too
close kissin his!"- Sir Charles to Kenny Smith.
by bone31crusher on Apr 22, 2011 10:46 PM CDT up reply actions
I wasn't being a homer
It’s called being reasonable, ever heard of that?
The guy left us and played better with the Suns than he did here this season thus prooving that he, just like Dragic, needed a change of scenery. Bone you really have to stop being so biased because it effects your evaluations of players and situations. You never give credit to anyone you hate and you ignore situations and just cite short sighted numbers to plead your case.
Me against the world is a mismatch in my favor.
In the interest of sparing another shitstorm or you two going after each other I will say one thing.
Boobies.
TDS's resident dickhead.
Thems deflated airbags, puff em' up
( . Y . )
TDS's resident dickhead.
by BD34 on Apr 22, 2011 11:16 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
Rec'd.
"Hakeem couldn't kick your ass cuz you were too
close kissin his!"- Sir Charles to Kenny Smith.
by bone31crusher on Apr 23, 2011 12:45 AM CDT up reply actions
No,
I’m done.
He’s not understanding me, so I’m just done.
"Hakeem couldn't kick your ass cuz you were too
close kissin his!"- Sir Charles to Kenny Smith.
by bone31crusher on Apr 23, 2011 12:45 AM CDT up reply actions
AB was very poor for them
For awhile. He took a good deal of time getting aclimated run and shoot team. Which is odd considering I, like many others, belived he would excel almost given its glove-like fit to his streangths.
While such a period of adjustments is expected, phx was in the middle of a desperste last breath playoff push and ABs poor play cost them games they couldn’t afford to loose. Can’t realy say the same about dragic
"Never underestimate the heart of a champion"- Rudy T, all up in that azz
by ShookednShanghaied11 on Apr 23, 2011 5:48 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Chris Paul is not a great defender.
Yes he get’s lots of steals but he is not very strong and taller guards can just shoot right over his head.
by alexander_37 on Apr 23, 2011 4:54 PM CDT up reply actions
I don't know what you're watching
But you are entitled to your opinion.
Me against the world is a mismatch in my favor.
One thing for sure
Lowry was a lot better than Brooks. Chuck Hayes was the best defensive player and Lowry was probably second best. I don’t think there was a third best although I guess Patterson tried to be.
considering Chuck received
a couple first place votes, its safe to say hes the winner on this team ;)
Rockets-Texans-Dynamo-Longhorn fan.. the Astros have gotten back into my good graces so theyre allowed back into the elite club... GO 'STROS, 2011 NL Central Division Champs!! you heard it hear first!
*1st place votes in the league wide DPOY voting
Rockets-Texans-Dynamo-Longhorn fan.. the Astros have gotten back into my good graces so theyre allowed back into the elite club... GO 'STROS, 2011 NL Central Division Champs!! you heard it hear first!
Write in vote: Brad Miller
He wears that headband really well.
- Rivers McCown, From Mom's Basement | Twitter | SB Nation Houston | Battle Red Blog
by riversmccown on Apr 22, 2011 3:57 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
This is like a DeAndre Jordan/Marc Gasol FA thread
the only closer slam dunk “obvious” choice thing would be a thread asking if the board would like some lovin’s from Scarlet Johannsen.
TDS's resident dickhead.
I have no idea what you guys are saying.
Rondo and CP3 have some other defensive way of measurement?
Batman disagrees with you.
"Hakeem couldn't kick your ass cuz you were too
close kissin his!"- Sir Charles to Kenny Smith.
by bone31crusher on Apr 22, 2011 10:02 PM CDT up reply actions
No I don't
Stats just help to overrate shit and it really gets annoying. Just because someone racks up steals or blocks does not make them a good defender. Amare Stoudemire can block shots but he is a matador defender. Stephan Curry is 7th amongst PG’s in steals but he is a bad defender as well. Please Bone, you are way more intelligent than you sometimes present yourself to be. Remember that stats only tell half of the story but watching the games tell the whole story.
Me against the world is a mismatch in my favor.
You are contradicting yourself then.
You threw in Rondo’s name, because his steals were top 5. His defense was atrocious in the second half of the season. Celtics Blog was asking for his head.
"Hakeem couldn't kick your ass cuz you were too
close kissin his!"- Sir Charles to Kenny Smith.
by bone31crusher on Apr 22, 2011 10:44 PM CDT up reply actions
Its all in your head Bone
Rondo is a much better defender than Lowry is. Rondo gets his steals from ripping it from ball handlers instead of playing the passing lanes. His defense on the ball is elite and his defense falling off at the end of the season was due to an ankle injury. Again Bone you choose to use “second half of the season” to judge a body of work. Rondo has a reputation for being a great defender for a reason and just because he had a bad second half of the season on that end does not make him a better defender than Lowry. With your logic the player who makes the last shot in a game is the best shooter ever!
Me against the world is a mismatch in my favor.
i would say Rondo is better, but damn...how about working on that
jumper….no improvement over the past couple years.
by inquisitiveman on Apr 23, 2011 10:51 AM CDT up reply actions
If we're looking at defensive comparisons I'm talking about guys consistently higher up than Lowry.
It’s one great defensive barometer that tends to yield results. Then when you factor in all around game and it’s no contest.
TDS's resident dickhead.
Time to shock the world.
I voted for Chuck.
"You know how Einstein got bad grades as a kid? Well, mine are
even worse! " ~Bill Watterson, Calvin and Hobbes
by TheChuckwagonisrolling on Apr 22, 2011 10:49 PM CDT reply actions
WHAT THE HELL MAN THAT'S NOT LOGICAL OR UNIGNORANT AND OTHER BUZZWORDS I PISS PEOPLE OFF WITH
Also, caps lock.
TDS's resident dickhead.
Logic? Nah.
I hang around women too much to still think logic has any basis in the real world anymore.
"You know how Einstein got bad grades as a kid? Well, mine are
even worse! " ~Bill Watterson, Calvin and Hobbes
by TheChuckwagonisrolling on Apr 22, 2011 11:25 PM CDT up reply actions
Rick Adelman
(not a player) but many couldn’t get anything past his stubborn ass
The content of the text above is provided for information purposes only. No claim is made as to the accuracy or authenticity of the content. The troll does not accept any liability to any person for the information or advice (or the use of such information or advice) which is provided in the text above.
Anyone says "I'm Gonna F*** You Up" on the court
gets my vote
Chuck was the best individual defender.
But if we had 15 other starting centers our team defense would be better
by VBG on Apr 23, 2011 11:13 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Rec'd.
Nobody here understands that Chuck’s help defense is non-existent.
Great one-on-one defender, but no help defense.
"Hakeem couldn't kick your ass cuz you were too
close kissin his!"- Sir Charles to Kenny Smith.
by bone31crusher on Apr 23, 2011 12:55 PM CDT up reply actions
You've being subborn and unkind here.
Chuck draws charges as well as anyone in the league.
Chuck can pick up wings and even guards on switches off screens and in transition.
Chuck has quick hands and makes steals helping in traffic.
Chuck isn’t a great weak-side help defender and he is clearly weak as a shot-blocker against penetration.
But the “15 other centers” argument is ridiculous. A team that plays Brooks, Martin, Budinger, and Scola in the top 8 rotation is not going to be an elite defensive team. If you think replacing Chuck with Darko Milicic or Marcin Gortat makes us a better defensive team, you’re crazy. Maybe there are a couple teams where we do better, but then guys like Amare, Griffin, and Randolph absolutely destroy us.
I disagree. A charge taken happens what once or twice a game if you’re lucky.
A shot blocker is a constant threat. I think if we had Gortat over Chuck Hayes, we would be a better defensive team
well, Dwight Howard gets about 2 blocks a game too
It isn’t the block (or charge) as much as the threat of the block/charge.
And your Dwight example is blatantly unfair. Dwight the best defensive player of his entire generation. So yes, he would make us far better. You need to convince me about centers #12,13,14 and 15, not #1. If you add Gortat alongside Hayes, then yes, we’re much better, but I don’t think the substitution would help defensively.
To play your game:
Nash << Lowry (Nash is better than advertised. I could argue for only “<” here)
Dudley > Martin
G Hill > Bud
Frye < Scola (this one is being kind to the Rockets)
Gortat ? Hayes
And the Suns are absolutely awful, far worse than the Rockets, defensively.
They are 1.2 points per game worse.
Gortat was only there for a part of a season.
Frye is terrible defensively.
You have to compare the 2nd half numbers of the teams when Phoenix was just a complete mess chemistry wise anyway.
There is a reason Morey wanted Gortat adn that reason is not offense.
OK
Mostly good points. I have no easy way to compare 2nd-half numbers, but yes, that would be the best stat. (Given how well the Rockets played, though, it would probably favor my point. The Suns closed 9-14 in the last two months.)
I would love to have Gortat too. A frontcourt of Gortat, Hayes, Patterson, and Scola could be really nice. But that’s not the question.
Rick Adelman should get a write-in
He sure held T-Will and Thabeet at the ASS-end of the bench.
by bigalshouseoflove on Apr 25, 2011 5:32 PM CDT reply actions
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