How to Fix The Rockets or: The One Where I Get Bashed For Trying to Trade Kevin Martin...Again
by Mike Kerns on May 27, 2011 9:15 AM CDT
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PrintI've decided that I am done whining about the possibility of Kevin McHale becoming the next Rockets head coach. Even though we are now hearing that Dwane Casey, my preferred pick, is back in the running. With either, it is obvious from listening to Daryl talk on the radio that we are about to go into a full rebuilding and "going young" mode. Which, in my opinion, is about two full seasons past due. Which means any guy with the number "3" at the beginning of his age needs to be dealt, regardless of how big a mancrush some Rockets fans may have on him. Also, it is time to sell high on a certain "efficient" two guard who plays defense worse than Seamus on Family Guy would. Something that I know has been an unpopular notion around here. More after the jump...
Let's be honest here...is Kevin Martin the guy that can take you to the top? No. And if he can go towards getting you a guy who can, you move him. I know all the stat heads are going to throw a bunch of numbers at me about his proficiency and high shooting percentages. But the guy disappears in the clutch worse than Tracy McGrady ever did. In the 4th quarter the past season and a half, Speed Racer has been a ghost. And it has happened too many times for it to just be a coincidence.
I'm not going to name a specific player the Rockets should set their targets on for a possible Martin trade because Daryl usually surprises us with some guy out of left field. But there are some good free agent big men who will be available once the market opens and perhaps a sign and trade could be worked out. And if Kevin Martin is the guy they want, you do that without hesitation.
I know you're all getting antsy and saying "But, Mike! Who's going to replace him!? Who would you then go out and get?!" It really isn't that difficult, to be honest. For the solution lies in house at the front of the bench in the person of Courtney Lee. This guy is too good to be sitting as much as he does. Did I mention that he also actually plays this thing called defense? With what you lose in the scoring from trading Martin you get back in balance of offense and defense with Courtney. Then, if you don't draft another two, how about finding out if Terrence Williams can play some minutes and prove he was worth giving up a first round pick for? He can play the two and three but his natural position was shooting guard while at Louisville. A new coach is likely to give him the opportunity to succeed, at least more so than Rick did.
Then you have Luis, who I love just as much as any other Rockets fan. But the emergence of Patrick Patterson combined with his age and contract makes him expendable. Especially if we're going into a rebuild. Moving his contract might be a little tougher, but I think there could be a suitor or two out there. Let Patterson then start and, if the rumors are true about him wanting to return to Houston, resign Carl Landry to compete for the job or back Patterson up. Even though that last part is probably a pipe dream, as I think Carl goes where he gets to start from day one. So the Jordan Hill experiment would continue at his natural position and if the Center position is addressed, Chuck Hayes will always be serviceable here when the team goes defensive.
As for said Center position, I'm not one of the Hasheem Thabeet hopefuls. I tried to be optimistic about it when the trade was made, but the guy doesn't even dominate in the D-League. I have no reason to believe he can even be good in the Association. He spends another year on the end of the bench and Rio Grande Valley until his contract expires at years end.
Resign Yao? Give me a break. How many times do you have to touch a stove that everyone keeps telling you is hot before you finally realize that they're right? CUT. THE. CORD.
I doubt we'll see another year of Chuck Hayes at the five for 82 games and the Jordan Hill to Center project died early last year. So this has to be addressed in free agency or trade. Marc Gasol is a pipe dream and I see Memphis breaking the bank to keep him around after the success they had this season. Nene has a player option that he is likely to exercise, regardless of how frustrated he was at the end of the season. Tyson Chandler certainly has boosted his stock and someone will overpay for him, like Mark Cuban. That leaves the most likely target to be the Clippers' DeAndre Jordan. After Chris Kaman's injury last year, Jordan proved he was ready to be a starter and being unrestricted, he could be had for around 5 years, $35 million. At only 23 years old, I'd be willing to give him a shot for that. After all, it's not my money. But reviews on him have been mixed to say the least. Samuel Dalembert is also another option, but many believe one of the teams that are closer to a title are going to be knocking him over with offers.
As for the Dwight Howard pipe dream (that word has come up a lot, huh?), that needs to be let go. I would be in favor of going for a one year rental of Howard if the team was closer than they are right now. But even with him, combined with what would have to be given up to get him, this team wouldn't be better than a 4-6 seed in the West. He wants to go to a flashy market and as we've learned the past couple seasons, NBA stars don't view Houston in that manor.
In the end, I am anxious to see what Daryl Morey can do without the McGrady and Yao albatross contracts hanging around his neck. For the first time since he took over, Daryl is playing with house money. I'm anxious to see what he does with it. Starting with Kevin Martin.
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I agree, but
I put the emphasis on Martin because everyone has come to terms on Scola. But they still seem to be clinging to the belief that Martin is a superstar. He isn’t.
And I would trade Carlos Lee before either of them, but if you’re goal in a trade is to get something of value back, Martin is the guy to trade.
by seanbergmanrules on May 27, 2011 10:16 AM CDT up reply actions
I agree with everything except...
Resign Yao? Give me a break. How many times do you have to touch a stove that everyone keeps telling you is hot before you finally realize that they’re right? CUT. THE. CORD.
I want to resign Yao for sentimental reasons. Not a logical move, but I’m a fan and think he needs to retire here.
Jordan Hill to Center project
I don’t understand the hype around this. In our offense the two bigs are interchangeable from what I’ve seen. The only thing that denotes Hill as a “center” is who he guards. He struggles guarding the low post pounders (traditional centers), but he’s more than capable of playing “center” against finesse-type bigs.
"In our offense the two bigs are interchangeable from what I've seen."
Coach N/A runs a beautiful flex system of bigs through the high post, yea? We don’t have a coach, we don’t have an offensive system yet.
Yes, the profile picture is a dude wailing a guitar and kicking a rhino in the giggleberries while an explosion goes off in the background. I'm kind of like that in person. Awesome.
Ok. The offense in which Jordan Hill played last year (which seems to be favored by the FO, hence Finch being on the staff for continuity) has interchangeable bigs, but one needs to be able pass from the high post and ideally one needs to protect the rim.
It’s pointless to argue about a hypothetical future, but the bigs in a flex are also interchangeable from what I know.
If we change to a system which uses a center that needs skills Jordan doesn’t have, I will change my opinion accordingly.
Finch isn't guaranteed on the staff, as per Jonathan Feigen.
Not yet at least. It’s at the mercy of whatever kind of offense the front office wants to go with. We’re looking at more balanced ball which means our bigs are going to get the rock and we’ll try to go half court.
Yes, the profile picture is a dude wailing a guitar and kicking a rhino in the giggleberries while an explosion goes off in the background. I'm kind of like that in person. Awesome.
The problem with trading Kevin Martin isn't that he's "untouchable"
But rather it’s almost impossible to find the right fit.
For the Rockets, there are basically two Martin trades that make sense.
1. Trade him along with other players/picks for a bigger star
or
2. Trade him for a young, budding star or top draft pick.
In situation 1, what kind of situation would a team be in to make that trade? For one, they must have overplapping depth at the position of said star. And they would also have a huge hole at the SG position. The only similar scenario in recent NBA history, that I can think of, are Webber/Howard problem and Mourning/Johnson problem. Both times they traded a big for a wing. And history have shown that in both cases, the team that got the wing player lost big time.
Oddly enough, it’s the Tyreke Evans/Kevin Martin conundrum that allowed us to get Martin cheap in the first place. And that was very much out of the blue. Which shows that you can’t just force a trade, but can only wait for the right situation.
In situation 2, you need the team in possession of high pick or young potential star to be in contention. One where Martin is the last missing piece. Again, this is hard to do. Winning teams tend to have low 1st rounders and no superstar-in-waiting they’re willing to sacrifice. Theoretically speaking, imagine a team like the Pistons back when they had the #2 pick. And they had no Rip Hamilton. In that case, the Rockets giving the Pistons Martin + #14 for #2 would make sense for both teams. But again, finding such a fit is the problem. Look at all the contenders in the NBA today. Who holds that young stud or top pick that they’re willing to flip for Martin? The only possible case would be with the Thunder, in case they get some injury problem and somehow absolutely want Martin for scoring punch. Probably not, but perhaps possible.
I see no reason to trade Martin in any other situation, short of the Rockets openly tanking.
Not really
Not when you consider how well Marcus Thornton was playing for them. Having Tyreke and Thornton gives them elbow room, not to mention Jermaine Taylor as an insurance policy they got from us already. They’re good at the 2. Minnesota on the other hand…..
They could use Kevin Martin, but I suspect a 3rd peice would have to accompany the #14 pick, probably Buddinger or the 23rd as well. In exchange, Houston gets Beasley and Kanter as the 2nd pick.
by Nobody is Better Than Jordan on May 27, 2011 10:29 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
I thought Wesley Johnson was their future at the 2?
Yeah, on second thought, I was probably wrong about Sacramento.
Minnesota?
They’re willing to trade their #2 for a veteran. They seem happy with Darko/Love/Beasley/Johnson manning the 3-5. If Rubio comes over to play point they could be tricked into thinking they’re a 2 away from being a decent team. Maybe we could even offer to take Flynn.
by seanbergmanrules on May 27, 2011 10:22 AM CDT up reply actions
If David Kahn really is as stupid as he makes himself out to be...
And believe they’re that close, then I would seriously consider that. Of course, the caveat being that Morey has done his homework and know the pick will net him a future star.
I will say this. If Morey trades Martin for a top pick, it better pan out.
I thought Wesley Johnson was their future at the 2?
Yeah, on second thought, I was probably wrong about Sacramento.
That’s how they wanted to use him, but he played much better when he was the 3, and Beasley plays better as a 4. Love, interestingly enough, played better as a 5 last year, though I imagine opponent strength had something to do with that.
by seanbergmanrules on May 27, 2011 12:03 PM CDT up reply actions
a 3 team trade should also be considered
What you said makes sense and I see it as only a 3 team trade is the only way a team on the verge of contending would make a deal for K-mart while the Rockets could get something of value in return
"Stability is a factor in teams that win the championship. But if you stabilize on a team that's going to end up short of that, then all you're doing is spinning your wheels in the 45-win range."-----Daryl Morey
by fanoflosingteams on May 27, 2011 10:36 AM CDT up reply actions
Would you do this trade with New Jersey?
Anthony Morrow
Damion James
Your 2012 pick back
TPE
for
Kevin Martin
TPE's cannot be combined with players to make salaries match for trades.
And aside from that, no interest in any of the guys on offer.
Yes, the profile picture is a dude wailing a guitar and kicking a rhino in the giggleberries while an explosion goes off in the background. I'm kind of like that in person. Awesome.
I like Damion James
but that may be because played at Tejas
"Stability is a factor in teams that win the championship. But if you stabilize on a team that's going to end up short of that, then all you're doing is spinning your wheels in the 45-win range."-----Daryl Morey
by fanoflosingteams on May 27, 2011 10:49 AM CDT up reply actions
Nets are under the cap
they could do a deal like that without having to match Martin’s salary thus creating a TPE for the Rockets (the difference between Martin’s salary & the other two players’ combined).
As for the proposed deal, yeah I think Rox could do better than my offer if they shopped Kevin.
I thought it just lessens your cap space, not create a TPE.
Yes, the profile picture is a dude wailing a guitar and kicking a rhino in the giggleberries while an explosion goes off in the background. I'm kind of like that in person. Awesome.
Teams with large trade exceptions can take on salary
And with the exception it doesn’t have to be dollar for dollar. For example Houston could trade Kevin Martin and other players to Cleveland for the #4 pick. As long as the amount coming in doesn’t exceed the total TPE. The trade exception can be used for a lot of different combinations… Draft picks, draft rights, waived players, traded players… It opens up a lot of possibilities but expires after a year.
Funny how Memphis' ****-up has become Houston's obsession
Again, TPE's cannot be combined to make player salaries match.
In your case it works because it’s draft exchange, not in the proposed deal.
Yes, the profile picture is a dude wailing a guitar and kicking a rhino in the giggleberries while an explosion goes off in the background. I'm kind of like that in person. Awesome.
That deal could work
The Nets are far enough under the salary cap that making that deal would not put them over the cap and thus it’s legit.
by Patrick Harrel on May 27, 2011 6:50 PM CDT up reply actions
I was pointing out that TPE's work on a one player per basis, you have to have them in separate transactions.
I know the Nets are under the cap so equal salary isn’t a concern.
Yes, the profile picture is a dude wailing a guitar and kicking a rhino in the giggleberries while an explosion goes off in the background. I'm kind of like that in person. Awesome.
That’s how TPEs are created, when a team receives less salary than it’s taking on in a trade. You can’t combine players with a TPE that you had before and that was already created before the trade, but if you are making a trade and the other team is taking on more salary than you are sending out, it creates a new TPE for you.
Thanks for that.
Wasn’t 100% as to whether or not it just lowered your cap or created a TPE.
Yes, the profile picture is a dude wailing a guitar and kicking a rhino in the giggleberries while an explosion goes off in the background. I'm kind of like that in person. Awesome.
The Nets aren’t far enough under the cap for that to work without another player (most likely either Deron Williams or Travis Outlaw) coming back. Also, that would just create more problems for the Rockets.
Fire Johnson and hire Brown - I'm telling you Thorn was smoking somethin' when he let Brown slip away in the night.
by diehardNFFLbarnone on May 30, 2011 9:04 PM CDT up reply actions
I agree with everything you said....and im the biggest KM fan!
The truth is we need to rebuild by trading Scola and Marting and getting more draft picks and young players. I would like to see the Rockets really experiment this year to see who really has the talent to stay and lead the team in the future.
Start Thabeet, give T-will some minutes, if it all leads to a 30 win season so be it. Next years draft will be a lot better with some good talent. Stocked with picks we can draft really high and by then we will know who made the cut from the current team.
Scola and Martin deserve to be moved to contenders. Their talents will be wasted in Houston. So who would like Martin on their team….i think Chicago would give just about anything for him not named Rose or Noah.
Martin could excel in Chicago
His D would still be a weakness, but the have an inside presence there and as we just saw in their series with Miami, they need some offense.
LOL
They seemed so hard headed in their pursuit of Lee for nothing. I lost some respect for Chicago’s office during that failed trade. They’d have been vicious with Rose and Lee in the backcourt. I still don’t know if they’d have beaten Miami but Lee could have eased the burden off Rose and they might still be playing.
by Nobody is Better Than Jordan on May 27, 2011 10:36 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
I lost respect for Paxson when
he said Joakim Noah is “untouchable.” SO you’re telling me if Orlando wants to deal Dwight Howard to you for Noah you’re going to say No? It’s thinking like that that cost them getting Kobe a few years ago because he didn’t want to let go of Luol Deng.
Let's not over-extend an idea beyond common sense.
If Orlando called offering Howard you only keep Rose off the table. With Deng, he legitimately had his prospects. I also don’t think LA was seriously shopping Kobe as hard as reports made it sound.
Yes, the profile picture is a dude wailing a guitar and kicking a rhino in the giggleberries while an explosion goes off in the background. I'm kind of like that in person. Awesome.
great minds think alike
These changes are the kind of things I’m thinking for so long. If the Rockets wants to be contender, thinking of how competitive the West is, changes mentioned should be considered. I know Daryl Morey is thinking that way also because there is no way this team will win in the playoffs without emphasizing defense.
I believe this team is better than the Memphis Grizzlies (the team that beat San Antonio Spurs) because they are younger, hungrier, more competitive, has the drive to push through obstacles. They’ve done that before (like achieving the 22 winning streak without a known superstar). With that thing in mind, with the puzzles finally assembled, playoffs is near at hand. But the question is, how do this team get the pieces it needs to make a serious pitch at the coveted NBA championships? Simply, by giving up assets in exchange for greater assets.
I agree with trading Martin and Scola if they will get a good Center or the one that may fill the Rockets needs. If going up in the draft to snag Enes Kanter, I’m all for it. I’m sold with this guy and I remembered that the more he receives contact the better. Sounds good right? This is the man that I’m seeing defending the likes of Pau Gasol, Dirk Nowitzki, or Joakim Noah. Rockets bench mob is one of the best reserves in the NBA in the sense that some may start in a good team. That’s why, up tempo offense and great defense is the best for the teram but the minutes should be almost equally distributed among the players because like I’ve mentioned this team got no superstar and the best way to utilize more efficient offense and defense is by having full of energy, will to overcome, without being gassed in the end games.
an apple a day, keeps the doctor away. (true!)
My 15 man would look like this
PG Lowry/Dragic
SG Lee/Williams/Rookie or free agent
SF Williams/Budinger/Rookie or free agent
PF Patterson/Hill/Hayes/Rookie or free agent
C Jordan/Thabeet/Yao (it’s inevitable)
It’s a rough draft, but a decent blueprint for a rebuild.
Looks good, actually.
I assume Martin has been traded in your scenario so what would we get for him?
Me against the world is a mismatch in my favor.
I'm with you on this one, Mike.
I want to trade both Scola and Martin for either picks or young players.
We aren’t going to be a contender for awhile, so Martin needs to go.
I’m sure we can find suitors for both players.
Hell, I’d bet Kahn would trade the 2nd pick in the draft for Scola, Martin, and the 23rd and 38th picks.
The idea is that we get rid of them via trade.
It’s time that we commit to rebuilding.
"Hakeem couldn't kick your ass cuz you were too
close kissin his!"- Sir Charles to Kenny Smith.
I'm scratching my head a bit because almost this entire post (Aside from the "get a big man" thing and the scrap Hill and Thabeet idea) have been things I've said since the trade deadline.
The D-League lack of dominance is a red herring because he didn’t go down there to make it his bitch but to work on skill development, and that happened. It just so happened we saw a lot of offense we didn’t give credit for.
As far as getting a big, work in house. There’s a lot of obsession with Houston receiving pre-manufactured difference makers and the assumption is that apparently Houston must be the only franchise that values talented big men because every franchise will give theirs up if we pursue them with our fingers crossed hard enough. That isn’t the case, regardless of the rampant amount of excuses we like to make for that belief, it’s not true.
I found myself nodding through most of the post then I realized this has been my (relatively) unpopular position for since February. Nice to see the agreement across the board now though.
Yes, the profile picture is a dude wailing a guitar and kicking a rhino in the giggleberries while an explosion goes off in the background. I'm kind of like that in person. Awesome.
I've been in favor of a rebuild for awhile
And so have you. And it looks like most of the fan base is starting to come around, too.
I gotta ask though, with the thinking on Hill, do we not factor in a re-living of his rookie season
a lack of build for the position he got moved to, an entirely new game to learn, personal problems, and late season improvement at the position? I think there’s a lot that gets discounted because it was an awkward transition at the beginning of the year but when you consider interviews with him he very much seemed a Houston company man and wanted to continue developing his skills.
Yes, the profile picture is a dude wailing a guitar and kicking a rhino in the giggleberries while an explosion goes off in the background. I'm kind of like that in person. Awesome.
I think on the fly conversion was not the best for him but he certainly began re-working it as the season went on.
Yes, the profile picture is a dude wailing a guitar and kicking a rhino in the giggleberries while an explosion goes off in the background. I'm kind of like that in person. Awesome.
Now you know how I feel every time someone on TDS says "Let's go get JaVale McGee!"
It’ll come around.
Yes, the profile picture is a dude wailing a guitar and kicking a rhino in the giggleberries while an explosion goes off in the background. I'm kind of like that in person. Awesome.
Hill will come around offensively.
People saying “get McGee” were when whispers started of Blatche and McGee being available.
Yes, the profile picture is a dude wailing a guitar and kicking a rhino in the giggleberries while an explosion goes off in the background. I'm kind of like that in person. Awesome.
McHale just got offered the job
Houston has offered Kevin McHale coaching job and are in advanced talks on a deal, sources tell Y! Agreement may not come til after weekend.
Per Woj
Like I've come around to realize in other threads, this could be huge for our trio of bigs we're developing.
Hill, Thabeet, and Patterson will have three legends at their disposal to improve them:
McHale
Olajuwon
Dawson
Anyone else get a little bit stiff?
Yes, the profile picture is a dude wailing a guitar and kicking a rhino in the giggleberries while an explosion goes off in the background. I'm kind of like that in person. Awesome.
Woj just added:
There’s no guarantee terms will be agreed upon with McHale, but sources believe both sides are determined to make it happen.
.....
"Hakeem couldn't kick your ass cuz you were too
close kissin his!"- Sir Charles to Kenny Smith.
by bone31crusher on May 27, 2011 10:49 AM CDT up reply actions
Step back from the bring buddy.
We’ve talked about this at length, it’s not as bad as you think.
Yes, the profile picture is a dude wailing a guitar and kicking a rhino in the giggleberries while an explosion goes off in the background. I'm kind of like that in person. Awesome.
And as for Thabeet,
I’m only going to say 1 or 2 things, mainly because I don’t want to spark something.
1. Prior to the D-League, Thabeet did not play for months. He did not dominate down there, but he played very well. He averaged 10 points on 62% shooting, 8 rebounds, and 3 blocks per game. That’s a good start to me.
2. The thing with him is that you have to have a ton of patience with him. This guy is as big of a project as there has ever been. He’s steadily making progress, and he’s got a tremendous coach in Carroll Dawson.
"Hakeem couldn't kick your ass cuz you were too
close kissin his!"- Sir Charles to Kenny Smith.
thabeet
if the aging Mutombo has a place in this team, why not thabeet with much more developed offense?
an apple a day, keeps the doctor away. (true!)
Two lanky African dudes who enjoy defense.
I could see it.
Yes, the profile picture is a dude wailing a guitar and kicking a rhino in the giggleberries while an explosion goes off in the background. I'm kind of like that in person. Awesome.
Man, I wish I had 5% of your optimism
But I’m a Houston sports fan.
by Mike Kerns on May 27, 2011 10:52 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Buffalo Bills fan.
Wanna split a keg of anti-freeze?
Yes, the profile picture is a dude wailing a guitar and kicking a rhino in the giggleberries while an explosion goes off in the background. I'm kind of like that in person. Awesome.
by BD34 on May 27, 2011 10:52 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Climate differences make drink differences I guess.
But yea, there’s optimism because there’s been noticeable improvement at a fair clip. If D-League success were an indicator of what you want to see in an NBA guy this fan base should hop off the Rick Adelman train for Terrence Williams alone, you know?
Yes, the profile picture is a dude wailing a guitar and kicking a rhino in the giggleberries while an explosion goes off in the background. I'm kind of like that in person. Awesome.
I was in the 1% that said we needed to part with Rick
One of my favorite coaches ever, but he wasn’t the guy to keep around through a rebuild.
Apparently we are of the same mindset quite a bit.
Before the deadline I was still pulling for Rick, after the rebuild became apparent at the deadline (And even before that I was advocating a rebuild) I felt he needed to go. That was a beautiful storm of feces.
Yes, the profile picture is a dude wailing a guitar and kicking a rhino in the giggleberries while an explosion goes off in the background. I'm kind of like that in person. Awesome.
I'm just tired of mediocrity
I want to win. If that takes a couple of years of losing to get there, I’m in favor of a rebuild every time.
That's a familiar line of mine too.
So I believe this is where we say amen and down our respective “I don’t want to live because of my NFL team” beverages.
Yes, the profile picture is a dude wailing a guitar and kicking a rhino in the giggleberries while an explosion goes off in the background. I'm kind of like that in person. Awesome.
The Texans have me indifferent
I just don’t care anymore. I’m still loyal, but they don’t make me feel pain anymore. No faith that they’ll ever change. This was evidenced by giving Gary Kubiak another season.
I actually have hope for Buffalo. My concern is location.
There’s a few investors who would likely keep the Bills in Buffalo but nothing is for certain and Ralph Wilson’s corpse will only sell the franchise once it’s in the ground.
Yes, the profile picture is a dude wailing a guitar and kicking a rhino in the giggleberries while an explosion goes off in the background. I'm kind of like that in person. Awesome.
its probably more like 2%
because I was ready to move on from him early on. But then again, I was saying the FO should have a fire-sale on everyone
"Stability is a factor in teams that win the championship. But if you stabilize on a team that's going to end up short of that, then all you're doing is spinning your wheels in the 45-win range."-----Daryl Morey
by fanoflosingteams on May 27, 2011 11:05 AM CDT up reply actions
definitely sell high...
Hes very efficient and productive and its not you want to dump the salary to someone like Scola. One option could be cleveland and their 4th pick and their huge trade exception, that way you’re not just taking on other contracts. If we can get younger, im all for it. But his ability to draw fouls and get opposing teams in the penalty early in quarters will be missed.
Funny how Memphis' ****-up has become Houston's obsession
by jake_471 on May 27, 2011 10:51 AM CDT via mobile reply actions
be patient with the rookie
afterall, rookies are prone to lapses and errors
an apple a day, keeps the doctor away. (true!)
what's wrong with mchale
if this rebuilding team make the playoffs its the ultimate success, if not, next year is a projected a strong draft anyway.
an apple a day, keeps the doctor away. (true!)
I agree
on moving anyone who is 30-something. We all know this team isnt contending in the next 2 seasons at least. This coming season, no matter how long or short it is, should be a “lets see what we have” season and go from there. If they fall flat on their faces then, in a nut shell, you come out a little better than you did this season because you end up with a better pick in a better draft, plus they’ll have NY’s pick in the middle to late part of the draft.
"Stability is a factor in teams that win the championship. But if you stabilize on a team that's going to end up short of that, then all you're doing is spinning your wheels in the 45-win range."-----Daryl Morey
by fanoflosingteams on May 27, 2011 11:02 AM CDT reply actions
have you guys heard the lakers wanted deal
they offer pau gasol to warriors
houston gets andries bierdins (gsw center)
lakers get dragic, brad miller, david lee, and a pick i guess
who would want that? ridiculous geez!
an apple a day, keeps the doctor away. (true!)
lakers thread in this site
lakers fans are dreaming they also want dwight howard for gasol straight up
an apple a day, keeps the doctor away. (true!)
Lakers FANS tossed the idea around as theorycraft.
If there’s one thing to take from any SBN Fan site it’s the the fan base never considers the other team in a trade proposal. When they do, it’s an earth-shattering event in which the Old Ones rip through the fabric of time and transport Cthulhu straight into your living room where he sits and eats popcorn while watching his ‘stories’. GOD HELP YOU IF YOU INTERRUPT HIM!
Yes, the profile picture is a dude wailing a guitar and kicking a rhino in the giggleberries while an explosion goes off in the background. I'm kind of like that in person. Awesome.
so a proposed trade by fans is not legit
They bring ideas or suggestions to which it’s up to us to consider,
but, I agree on trading martin and scola for reasons I described above.
an apple a day, keeps the doctor away. (true!)
agree with moving scola
moving martin would depend on what we are acquiring for him. i could be convinced.
click here for: nba playoffs 2010-11 predictions
Trading Kevin Martin right now would definetly be "selling high"
Could we get something legitimate out of him though, or just a high draft pick (like the #2 pick from the T’Wolves).
If you're a fan of basketball, watch a movie called Sonicsgate. It's free, just google it.
"Injury history"
You mean Rockets fans over-reacting to fluke injuries?
Yes, the profile picture is a dude wailing a guitar and kicking a rhino in the giggleberries while an explosion goes off in the background. I'm kind of like that in person. Awesome.
Iggy is not getting any younger, would make no difference long term for us.
Yao ISN’T coming back to be of any use to us.
Yes, the profile picture is a dude wailing a guitar and kicking a rhino in the giggleberries while an explosion goes off in the background. I'm kind of like that in person. Awesome.
Rebuild will take 2-3 years, we need early 20's, not late.
Yes, the profile picture is a dude wailing a guitar and kicking a rhino in the giggleberries while an explosion goes off in the background. I'm kind of like that in person. Awesome.
Sureeeeeeee
but got to warn you this shit right here, this shit right here, man this shit right here, will make you deaf. If you never seen Katt williams you will not understand.
Am I the only one who doesnt want to trade martin away?
Im a pretty big fan of his. Honestly, without him and rick our offense is going to suck.
Id love to draft Kanter but something in the back of my mind has started screaming KNEES and Yao part II.
I would also hold off on trading Scola away just quite yet. Maybe at the trade deadline, but not over this offseason.
Btw I really do think we could get orlando to trade us dwight for a package of,
Dragic Kevin Martin, Scola, Patterson, Terrance Williams, plus the Three picks from next year as well as a future pick.
9 for 1 or 3?
Horrible idea. We’re REBUILDING, Dwight Howard is a win now guy. You do not rebuild with him or give up that much of your future for him. Kevin Martin will not be effective by the time we are relevant again so you cash in your chips asap, same with Scola.
Yes, the profile picture is a dude wailing a guitar and kicking a rhino in the giggleberries while an explosion goes off in the background. I'm kind of like that in person. Awesome.
Dwight is like 26. He can be the central figure no matter where he goes.
And im not entirely convinced we are even that far from contention
He'll be 29 by the time McHale's time is up and if Orlando is willing to "do him justice" he won't go to a rebuilding team.
As well, when it comes to contention, if it takes an entire supporting cast to get him then how far back are you setting yourself from contention? It’s selling all your livestock and horses to buy a ranch. You have no reason for the ranch at that point.
Yes, the profile picture is a dude wailing a guitar and kicking a rhino in the giggleberries while an explosion goes off in the background. I'm kind of like that in person. Awesome.
My thoughts
If you can parlay Scola and Martin away for draft picks and cap relief, you have to do it. I don’t know if Martin is worth the #2 pick, and if you can pawn Scola off along with Miller you can ditch huge money and completely rebuild. Imagine if the Rockets offered Scola, Miller, and the #23 or 14 for a future first rounder from the Kings (would likely be lottery protected). Rockets would ditch huge money, Kings would still have huge cap space and money to spend (or, in their case, not spend), and we’d be looking much better to rebuild and get a DeAndre Jordan type guy. With Martin, you could move him for Anthony Randolph, a first rounder, and one of their bad contracts. Without those two guys, we’d have virtually no substantial commitments moving forward and would basically have a blank slate. It would be tough to win a lot of games, but we’d be setting ourselves up for a very good future with Lowry, Lee, Williams, Budinger, Patterson, Randolph, free agents, and draft picks as a core.
Miller's non-guaranteed 2012-2013 contract should be very valuable about this time next year.
No need to sell low on him right now, but we could use the roster spot.
Doubtful
My thinking is that McHale is being brought in to play the young guys and Miller’s minutes are going to go to the Jordan Hill and Hasheem Thabeets of the world. Miller was much better than people give him credit for (he was dreadful on D, but had one of his best statistical seasons in recent memory), but one has to wonder how much of that came from playing in Adelman’s offense. I think the McHale hire represents a commitment to playing the young guys and developing the young big men that have shown some flashes of potential.
by Patrick Harrel on May 27, 2011 6:48 PM CDT up reply actions
Lee is great on d but
at this point, can’t score like Martin. If we trade martin for a center he has to be able to score ,or another player has to be able to come in and replace martin’s points. Moving Scola is wiser unless there are big offers for Martin, but Scolas’s defense is not as good as Pat. I think Boston will try for dalembert but deandre jordan I will take, i will even give Yao a incentive laced contract, depending on his number of games he plays as our backup, with a chance to prove he can play again. T Williams could be the one to step up become our starter at the three, and if we draft a three we will have some good competitions going on in the preseason.
by since86rocketsfan on May 27, 2011 4:41 PM CDT reply actions
Are we forgetting about chase at the 3?
Honestly I think chase has much higher upside than Terrance Williams.
Hes got it all.
The sweet shooting touch, the highlight plays.
The athleticism to play good to above average defense – at least he will be acceptable.
Really? A higher ceiling than Terrence Williams?
He’s a good shooter, good athleticism and a decent rebounder, worse passer, no commitment to defense and slow lateral movement, less court vision, more a catch and shoot player than a guy capable of creating his own shot, etc…
Yes, the profile picture is a dude wailing a guitar and kicking a rhino in the giggleberries while an explosion goes off in the background. I'm kind of like that in person. Awesome.
The only thing Bud has
on T Will is that he is a better shooter. Everthing else is in favor of Williams, defense being his main advantage. Bud got ups, but Williams is even more explosive, and if he actually got some time to play he would of gave Bud a real run for his minutes and would of had way more hightlight plays then Bud. And I dont know about Bud having above average d, its average at best.
by since86rocketsfan on May 29, 2011 4:24 PM CDT up reply actions
As a Sac fan I will always love Kevin Martin
but I wasn’t sorry to see him go. Kevin will put up the quietest 30 points you’ve never noticed and as your team loses another game he’ll come in with a +/- of – 3 or something. Kevin is an awesome shooter, he’ll put up a lot of very efficient points but he won’t stop anybody from scoring on the other side. He does make some clutch shots but he far more often tries to score points by drawing contact and going to the line. This is a great strategy for increasing his efficiency but the problem with it is in a close game with a minute or so to go, the refs usually stop making those calls and Kevin is left flopping ineffectively near the low left block.
As I said, I love Martin and will never forget his rookie development and what he has meant to the Kings, he’s a high character, hard worker and an excellent team mate. He is not a winner in the end by himself or a vocal leader. I think if the Rockets truly are moving into rebuilding mode, which always sounds better on paper than it is played out on the court, this is probably the best time to trade him. He played well this past season and without major injury and as long as you are ok with not getting back an equally good player in return it’s likely the parts you will get back will ultimately get you more wins.
"It ain't Chinese algebra" - Tony Allen from Basketbawful
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