Cracking The Daryl Morey Code
I was going over titles for this column and could find anything that would jack traffic up but also suit my need for creative titles. I was thinking "I Can See Clearly Now the Rage is Gone" or the overly mundane "Making Sense of the Rockets 2011 Draft". One struck me as dated, the other as too plain, so this is what you get.
I was one of TDS’s most outspoken critics of Morey after the draft and admittedly missing out on Kawhi Leonard is something I think we may come to regret but as I sobered up and things sorted themselves out I began to look at things in a different way. I also need to take this moment to deride Tom for being able to make sense out of the senseless and help in my views of this thing. With that, go work in the PR department for the Rockets or for grief counseling man. After the jump I’m going to explain the way in which I made sense of them and how I can live with sober thoughts.
To properly evaluate the sense in this draft we need to look beyond players, because that is actually only a part of what the draft is about. We need to look at the current climate of the team, the coach, and the position. When it all comes together I started to see the reasoning in these picks.
Marcus Morris:
The 14th pick that set me off, we went for a 6’9" PF widely labeled as a tweener with no true position. In college you can get away with that designation, in the NBA, not so much. His skillset, as revealed by video and interviews, lends itself more to the three with a "power" game. I don’t know if I’m ready to buy a power game because I don’t see him knocking around NBA power forwards but he shows enough to get in the lane if he wants it, his handles are suspect but can improve, and he has a jumper to space the floor. This is a three ready skill set. Defensively I’m on the fence to doubtful since he’s limited by wingspan, strength, and overall athleticism.
Like my brethren here on TDS when Morris was picked and it was reasoned that he is seen as a 3 in this league I was left wondering "Well, if we need defense and you drafted for a 3 then why did you let Chris Singleton and Kawhi Leonard fall through your hands?" For me it became more about the idea that Morris is willing to bulk up and has enough quickness/intelligence that he’ll be able to keep up with threes in this league, which can atone for a lot of sins. I still would rather have taken the less offensively developed Kawhi Leonard on the idea that you can always develop a shot but elite lockdown defense is rare. Chris Singleton would have also fit the mold with offense too. Morris gives us size at the three and allows Budinger to be moved because between Williams and Morris I think we have rounded out the three better than it was before.
If you’re reading this and wondering why I haven’t convinced you or even myself of the pick it’s because none of these truly got me there.
The press conference won me over. I know talk is cheap and results are the barometer but there was something at the conference that just won me over with this kid. He knows they’re going to try to swing him to the three and he hears a comparison to Carmelo Anthony and he said something important for this team. He won’t try to emulate Anthony’s defense but he likes the offensive comparison. To me, that makes a huge difference in an incoming player. If he’s willing to go where he’s needed, have confidence in his game, and know that this team needs defense and he needs to play it to see the floor, I feel good about his opportunities on this team. A lot can be said about swagger and confidence in this league and certainly the introduction of Morris was brimming with it.
Donatas Motiejunas:
The 20th pick in the NBA draft was a 7’0" Lithuanian that we traded Minnesota Brad Miller and the 23rd for. Was he going to be there at 23? I’m not entirely sure. Was it nice to dump Brad? Very. But this is about the draft pick, not the trade. We all know Houston lacks a center and by center we mean a guy 6’10" or taller that can protect the rim and bang inside. What we got in Donatas was a 7’0" guy with a minimal post game, lack of rebounding, and no inclination towards blocking shots. I’m one of the guys around who actually liked Mehmet Okur’s game which I compared Donatas to in his perimeter orientation but I also see a post game that can be used/developed. We got a big guy with more bulk than I expected and we can certainly slot him at the center. I feel like this will be a good split with Thabeet at the position because we can simply rotate an offensive PF with Thabeet and a defensive PF with Motiejunas.
We added a big body to a spot where we needed it so the fit makes sense. He’s a floor spacer and the Rockets love shooting big men (As pointed out abundantly by my fellow writers). I have faith in Motiejunas’s ability to develop a post game and develop defensively. Questions about his motivation and motor are things I take with a grain of salt because paying attention to context will clarify a lot of these questions. It’s the same argument hit with Thabeet and Flynn if it’s motivation or just bad play and the neglect is always paid to the fact that they’re in positions where superstars would find ways to underperform. I’m giving Donatas the benefit of the doubt here.
Looks like a douche.
Brad Miller, a future first, and the 23rd pick for Johnny Flynn and the 20th pick.
We dump our point-center so I’m not 100% sure where our answer is for that anymore. I mean, how many other NBA players can throw a game into bullet time only rivaled by that of the Matrix? We traded Neo for what? A huge potential point guard who wasn’t used properly in any way, shape, or form, and a 7’0" PF/C? You’d think Daryl Morey was a GM or something.
Like I said, I’ve come around to our draft picks so I count this as a win. We shed dead weight and age in Brad Miller, gain a guy we can slot at center who is willing to learn his post game and given everyone we have kicking around in Houston, can most likely develop into a legitimately well rounded center able to do a decent job on defense and a great job on offense. If we’re talking ceilings I see him as the Anti-Thabeet, strong offense, mediocre/adequate defense, Thabeet going the mediocre/adequate offense strong defense mold. Before anyone starts knit-picking I said ceilings and nothing to do with contracts or nationality or what color underwear he’s got on right now, so don’t start.
The Flynn acquisition gives us three point guards. We like having third point guards in Houston. Unfortunately this third point guard is a very talented lottery pick point guard who will give Kyle Lowry a run for his money, I swear it. Kyle will have to continue to play in second half form if he truly wants to hold on to that starting job. Flynn, I think, has developing court vision (Not as good as Kyle’s) but has a game similar to what Kyle had before he broke out. Not much of a jumper but a hell of a slasher and he’s willing to make the risky pass to get the job done. I think Dragic is our most well rounded point guard if I’m honest. I love Lowry in the starting point guard spot because he has become reliable in knocking down critical shots and his passes are well received. Dragic to me does it all but doesn’t come through as well as Kyle in a couple areas. Flynn, I could easily see cracking into the rotation and shocking us if he’s not traded.
Overall:
When the draft concluded the Rockets faithful collectively mourned now having 6 power forwards on a roster that needed a three and a five. Some argued that we did draft just that but the overwhelming feel on Morris was that he’s going to be better off as a four rather than forcing a position change. I’m seeing the ability of Morris to play the three and I hope the fact that I’m drinking the Kool-Aid means my faith will be rewarded. Our power forwards upon first impression looked to be:
Scola, Patterson, Morris, Hayes, Hill, Motiejunas
Then I got to thinking, let’s tweak this into a general lineup where I think everyone can fit/the front office sees them fitting.
PG: Lowry, Flynn, Dragic
SG: Martin, Lee, Williams
SF: Budinger, Morris, Parsons
PF: Scola, Patterson, Hayes
C: Thabeet, Hill, Motiejunas
That lineup goes three deep at every position, provides a pretty good mix in my opinion and with Hill and Motiejunas all being 4/5 guys I think we can steer clear of a lot of the rotational problems we’re all expecting because there’s versatility here and McHale, unlike Adelman, will use it. So, position-wise, I’m not so disturbed by it all.
Listening to McHale talk about these players and to watch the confidence they all exhibited was something inspiring to me. They just had this collected look of "We’re your new Houston Rockets and we’re going to make a difference." I think that’s huge when you consider that this draft, like all "weak" drafts tends to produce a few surprise gems and even more rotation players. I think we got some rotation players and I feel if McHale can unlock some defense and post moves in Motiejunas we may have walked away with a gem. The most important thing about McHale’s press conference is building faith in the young big men, which I feel we should have all seen coming once he was hired as the new coach. He specifically stated he’s worked with Jordan, Patrick, and Thabeet. Three bigs with a lot in the tank are getting their one on one work with a legendary big man. This speaks volumes about the commitment of both the players and McHale. Motiejunas seems excited to work with Kevin and this draft, this coach, and this organization has managed to earn my faith.
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DoeMoe
When asked what he thinks he would bring to the team he said he can provide whateve we need. That tells me he is going to do whatever it takes to get on the court and work on all aspects of his game. He seems to understand his weaknesses which is the first step in improving on them. I think all the criticism will motivate this guy and if he reaches his true potential then we have our franchise talent.
Me against the world is a mismatch in my favor.
Bigman development is all good here in Houston..
With our new coach in the mix together with Jack Sikma (I believe we still have him?). Now if only The Dream will contribute as well. That’d be sweet.
Oh, and I still wish that Jordan Hill would bulk up on the same level Dwight did when he made the position switch.
Jordan made it arbitrarily on the fly with no time to bulk up. I think he's putting in the right kind of work.
His position is still in flux because there’s concerns about him getting lost in the PF shuffle or the Center shuffle. My latent hope is we put Motiejunas at the 4 and Hill at the 5, give him something stable, you know?
Not sure about Sikma being on staff still but I do know Hakeem does private work outs with players if they request them.
My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased
I guess a bit a resolve is needed to solve that flux.
The thing with Howard was that he was really committed to the position change. He needed to improve his Defense for it and he did. Hill would have to resolve himself to be a 5, and I hope he will.
As for Montiejunas, I would want him to be a Dirk type of player rather than an Okur type. That would be a stretch and a very tall order but I think he has it in him if he puts in the effort needed to get to that level.
the dirk compparison is better to me
because he has a good post game and a great shot
by Samarth Sulhan on Jun 25, 2011 2:35 PM CDT up reply actions
Sikma's probably gone.
The only assistant that’s The only assistant been hired is Finch.
McHale has also met with Lakers assistant Chuck Person, Memphis assistant Dave Joerger and Nuggets assistant Melvin Hunt, with additional interviews planned for next month.
Read more: http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/bk/bkn/7625967.html#ixzz1QJMM27nV
I thought I read somewhere
that someone had said Finch to the Rockets isn’t a done deal yet.
by twinkilling0303 on Jun 26, 2011 12:37 AM CDT up reply actions
From that link.
Chris Finch, who coached the team’s NBA Development League affiliate, has been elevated to an assistant coach, Rockets general manager Daryl Morey said Friday.
Read more: http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/bk/bkn/7625967.html#ixzz1QONYCIee
"Looks like a douche."
"Hakeem couldn't kick your ass cuz you were too
close kissin his!"- Sir Charles to Kenny Smith.
It took some time
and while Morris wouldnt have been my pick at 14, I understand WHY he was picked. When you look at the college landscape you’ll notice that there really arent any true C in college anymore. Heck Tristan Thompson played C for the Longhorns and Mk. Morris played C for Kansas and they’re both 6’8"-6’9". Its just the nature of the beast. With D-Mo (Im gonna call him Monty) you can tell thats he’s bulked up at least a little. There is a difference in size from his Youtube videos and the press conference. I like the idea of having Monty and PPat on the floor at the same time, or Thabeet and Scola out at the same time. Which is basically what you said of having a Offensive PF and Defensive C out at the same time and vice versa.
"Stability is a factor in teams that win the championship. But if you stabilize on a team that's going to end up short of that, then all you're doing is spinning your wheels in the 45-win range."-----Daryl Morey
by fanoflosingteams on Jun 25, 2011 11:40 AM CDT reply actions
Not sure if Monty works.
It’s Motiejunas, not Montiejunas. Lot of people have been misspelling it.
"Hakeem couldn't kick your ass cuz you were too
close kissin his!"- Sir Charles to Kenny Smith.
by bone31crusher on Jun 25, 2011 2:28 PM CDT up reply actions
How about Mont Blanc
"Do not panic, all is well" Kevin Bacon in the parade scene in the movie Animal House
by mjdinhouston on Jun 26, 2011 1:07 AM CDT up reply actions
It's the nature of stupid rules.
The reason there are no more real centers is because of the second worst rule ever: The 3-second rule. The worst rule ever: semi circle. Both made because Stern loved having MJ and his attention. These rules allow Bryant and his ilk the upper hand versus taller players. Imagine how much more effective a center like Yao would be if he were actually allowed to stay or defend in the CENTER.
by cougarRoxFan on Jun 25, 2011 9:36 PM CDT up reply actions
The semi-circle rule is dumb
But the defensive 3-second rule actually came with allowing zone defense, which was designed to reduce, not improve the scoring power of guards driving the lanes.
Tristan Thompson play PF for the longhorns
Gary Johnson played center.
TT might have played occasional spot minutes at the 5, but he didnt spend significant time there.
"Slammed that hoe on the counter like I just got 35 on the domino table!!"
Sherrod Harris
I like the way you set the line up...
I was optimistic from the jump..WooHoo cant till the season starts..(If we have a season)
Is deride the correct diction there? Haha
The Dream Shake ...on Twitter.
"I think girls are probably just better shooters." - Steve Novak
I was going to throw some pissy comments out there for bringing me around.
Cut it for taste. Screw you, Mr. Martin, you won me over on this issue.
My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased
1,2,3
I see three back up pgs here…scares me. If lowry doesn’t produce like he did late last yr(which I’m not banking on) then we have a problem on our hands. We need an upgrade at pg(size/skill). The 3 spot scares me too but not as much as pg, at least I know what to expect outta Bud
by GreenRocket on Jun 25, 2011 1:29 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
I believe this has already been proven.
Kyle is NOT just a back-up. He just has a more complete game , finally with a jump shot and extending behind the 3-point line. Defensively, hasn’t been an issue.
If anything, the PG is one of the positions we’re set in. You’re worried about the wrong thing.
Lowry is the only Rockets keeper, as far as I'm concerned
They can’t get good value for unsexy players like Scola and K-Mart, so you might as well consider them Rockets next season, and I highly doubt Morey will want to trade the new rookie additions. The best bet is to trade some young (ie, cheap) depth to a team looking for payroll relief, which brings us back to…. the ATL.
The Hawks will trade a potential star in Josh Smith. Swap the Battier trade exception for Marvin Williams’ contract, and trade Patterson/Bud/Hill, and it probably works.
by Moochie's Fro on Jun 25, 2011 2:08 PM CDT up reply actions
hmm
I’m trying to figure out why a lot of you guys think Lowry is more of a keeper than Kmart or Scola…it can’t be talent cuz that wud be a ridiculously one sided argument, is it the contracts? Is Lowry not a liability defensively as well? We can’t be watching the same Rockets…
by GreenRocket on Jun 25, 2011 4:26 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
It's not to say that Lowry is better than Scola
but Scola is pretty easy to replace on our team, Lowry is not. If we were to trade Scola away, I think most people would be satisfied seeing more Pattrick Patterson along with our other 4 PF’s on the roster. On the other hand, if we were to get rid of Lowry then either Dragon or Flynn would have to start and I don’t think anyone likes that.
by Bobbythegreat on Jun 25, 2011 4:29 PM CDT up reply actions
"but Scola is pretty easy to replace on our team, Lowry is not."
Dragic would like to have a word with you.
Me against the world is a mismatch in my favor.
Patterson is better than Dragic.....
"Hakeem couldn't kick your ass cuz you were too
close kissin his!"- Sir Charles to Kenny Smith.
by bone31crusher on Jun 25, 2011 5:10 PM CDT up reply actions
cool
Very understandable…but that’s why I’m a fan of Monta coming. We can get rid of some forwards(and Lowry if necessary) and still have Scola or Patterson as a starter. You can’t teach the skill set monta has nor his size for that matter, he’s a guy that can get his shot off against whoever and thats what we don’t have. If he cud play w/Curry, he can most def play w/Martin cuz he is efficient and doesn’t dominate the ball. And Lowry is JUST AS MUCH A LIABILITY ON D AS MONTA…if not more due to his lack of size. Wth did Lowry shutdown/slowdown last year?? He got chopped up by everyone…I give him an A+ for effort tho but wtf does that get you?
by GreenRocket on Jun 25, 2011 5:13 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
great backup...mediocre starter
We wudnt even be having this convo if old ass Manu didn’t mangle AB’s ankle last year…Lowry wud still be a great backup because that’s what he is.
by GreenRocket on Jun 25, 2011 5:15 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
lowry definitely played much better all season last year as a point guard than aaron brooks did for his first few healthy games.....no shortage of idiots on this earth
All Monta can do is steal on defense, and Lowry isn’t that far behind him in that regard. Monta has the speed to stop defensive penetration, but not the strength. Lowry, on the other hand, possesses both. Lowry is definitely a key contributor to the success of Martin/Scola, and is much more balanced between those three current Rockets on offense and defense. You are such a dickhead, basing scoring as the primary characteristic of basketball players. Simpleton. And what success did Monta bring to GS in his many years there? One playoff appearance. One round win. When the West was significantly weaker than it was last year, whoop-de-fucking-do. Martin and a bench player for Ellis would be a COMPLETELY different story. Monta is a SG in a PG body.
by ndnav_93 on Jun 25, 2011 11:59 PM CDT up reply actions 7 recs
Rec'd.
"Hakeem couldn't kick your ass cuz you were too
close kissin his!"- Sir Charles to Kenny Smith.
by bone31crusher on Jun 26, 2011 12:54 AM CDT up reply actions
That's nuts
Kyle Lowry has always been a solid defender, and Steph Curry facilitates a lot more than Monta Ellis, Ellis attacks. you really wants a dual SG set going?
Explain to me how Lowry is a defensive liability.
Yes, he’s 5-11, but he’s jacked at 207 pounds.
Rondo is 6-0 and one of the best defenders in the league.
What the hell do you mean when you say you can’t teach Monta’s size? He’s a 6-4 SG. That’s not good unless you are D-Wade.
Let’s see:
MAR 18 – Rockets beat Boston 93-77
Lowry held Rondo to a pitiful 2-11 shooting and just 6 assists.
FEB 27 – Rockets beat Hornets 91-89
Chris Paul dishes out 12 assists, but goes 2-12 from the field and only scores 6 points.
JAN 14 – Hornets beat Rockets 110-105
Chris Paul goes 4-11 from the field for only 11 points, and while he dishes out 8 assists, he has 5 TO’s.
JAN 12 – Thunder beat Rockets 118-112
Russell Westbrook scores 23 points, but on 19 shots
DEC 4 – Bulls beat Rockets 119-116
Derrick Rose scores 30 points, but on 28 shots, while turning over the ball 5 times
MAR 8 Rockets lose to Suns 113-110
Steve Nash dishes out 14 assists, but just scores 9 points.
While Lowry gave up some high assist games, those were due mostly to our pathetic defenders on the team, mainly Scola, Martin, and Bud.
To hold the MVP to 30 points on 28 shots is damn impressive.
It may not seem impressive, but to shut down an elite PG 1 out of 2 times you play him is incredible.
He shut Chris Paul down 2 out of 4 times they played this year.
Stop looking at how “small” Lowry is. He may be 5-11, but he’s strong as hell, and he’s one of the toughest players in the NBA.
Give the man some fuckin’ credit.
"Hakeem couldn't kick your ass cuz you were too
close kissin his!"- Sir Charles to Kenny Smith.
by bone31crusher on Jun 25, 2011 5:44 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
wow
Our record was 2-4 in those six “notable” games…and u wudnt dare put Lowry stats up because I bet they were mirror images of the opponents only with much less points AND assists!!!! Know way in hell a mentally stable basketball fan picks Lowry over Monta Ellis
by GreenRocket on Jun 25, 2011 6:40 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
no brainer
If we had Monta we might not have lost those games…Monta ends up in the opponents gameplan, Lowry couldn’t ask to be in the opponents gameplan. I want the best players on my team ….MONTA ELLIS IS BETTER THAN KYLE LOWRY!!!!!!! WTH wud turn down a Kyle Lowry for Monta Ellis trade str8 up?? That SHOULD say a lot….and he dropped 52 on us last yr. Hmm I wonder how many he dropped on Lowry??
by GreenRocket on Jun 25, 2011 6:48 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
This is the reason why I think most fans need to be baptized by fire. If you spout off an ill-informed opinion so strongly you deserve to have it slammed back in your face.
Monta is a high volume shooting inefficient point guard. Yes, he dropped 52 points on us, but he shoots his teams out of games, gives up points at a fantastic clip, and doesn’t play the point guard role as a facilitator like Kyle does. Saying “YOU WOULDN’T DO THE TRADE STRAIGHT UP!?!?!” just makes you look asinine because you fail to address the fact that team needs are team needs, not theoretical NBA 2k11 trades where chemistry, fit, and use are ignored for sake of getting your team’s rating from 87 to 99 so you can be “super street thug online.”
You don’t take Monta Ellis because you want to value using each possession wisely, not flinging shots up all day long and hoping you break even or slightly below on your shots to point ratios.
My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased
Very good, is there a quiz later?
If you watch Lowery play he tries to shepherd his guy to the middle where his help is supposed to be. With a decent center that means more effective Defense.
"Do not panic, all is well" Kevin Bacon in the parade scene in the movie Animal House
by mjdinhouston on Jun 26, 2011 1:14 AM CDT up reply actions
I'm a pro-Lowry guy, I'm confused by this reply going to me.
My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased
I am agreeing with you whole heartedly
Lowery has also picked up the leadership role on our team. Your analytics are almost as good as DM’s. DId I just insult you? Sorry.
"Do not panic, all is well" Kevin Bacon in the parade scene in the movie Animal House
by mjdinhouston on Jun 27, 2011 7:00 AM CDT up reply actions
Hah, wasn't insulted, just wasn't sure on the follow through.
Always appreciate agreement.
My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased
why would anyone trade Monta Ellis
a 24 pt a game Shooting Guard for Kyle Lowry, a 13pt a game Point Guard straight up is beyond me.
but I see the prospect of Monta Ellis as a point guard laughable, if he really was one, Golden state wouldnt have tried to pair him up with a passer ever since they had him, he wouldnt have played 63% of his time last season at SG
He’s clearly plays like an SG, he’s clearly more comfortable playing as an SG, in fact i think he ranks about the same as Martin as an SG, I dont see how this solves our no starting PG issue if we indeed have one
"If we had Monta we might not have lost those games...."
You’re right. The rest of us are such idiots overlooking Monta’s success in winning. Only the basketball players can lead their teams to barely having the worst record year after year.
Know way in hell a mentally stable basketball fan picks Lowry over Monta Ellis.
What you were trying to say is “No way…” then again if you’re building a team and you want a legitimate point guard and you’re tasked with Ellis or Lowry, your average fan picks Ellis because your average fan is the functional equivalent of an autistic chimp who sees point output and thinks that’s the be-all end-all.
My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased
bs
Ok well you take Lowry and I’ll take Ellis..THAT’S MY OPINION!! Jump off my balls for wanting Ellis in Houston. I can name 15 pgs right now that are a better choice than Lowry at starting pg…can’t do the same for Monta. He’s a top 5-7 combo guard in this league and an ATTRACTIVE player. Nobody wants to come to Houston to play w/Lowry..not that players r jumping for Monta but Lowry??? Cmon son stop it. What kind of pick n roll threat is he? What kind of threat is he period? I hope to God he can keep up the 3 pt shot that he’s just now developing(yet to be determined) because b4 that he was NO DOUBT a back up. Another classic case of us Houston fans thinking our players are more than what they really are smh…wake up guys. Lowry untouchable?? Gotta be kidding
by GreenRocket on Jun 25, 2011 8:02 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
lol
And as far as 2k goes…lol. Gamertag- BK Topnotchent…you really don’t want that. It’ll be laughable.
by GreenRocket on Jun 25, 2011 8:05 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Mine is Maverick410369 ('Top Gun' fan).
Funny though, because I use the Warriors half the time.
Could use a different team if you want the Warriors.
"Hakeem couldn't kick your ass cuz you were too
close kissin his!"- Sir Charles to Kenny Smith.
by bone31crusher on Jun 25, 2011 11:50 PM CDT up reply actions
I think the only way for me to weed through that abortion you call a post is to get hit with a tack hammer.
Did I call Lowry untouchable? No. Did I call him a better point guard? Yes. Did I point out the flaws in Ellis’s game that would suck the movement (critical aspect of our offense) out of whatever unit he’s on? Definitely.
Don’t know about you but I want a team, not an overrated volume shooter who won’t play defense.
As for the gamer tag you have to tell people what console it is and I don’t even own 2k. By the post you just tossed out though I’m going to guess and say XBox 360.
My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased
good guess
You’re smarter than I gave you credit for….the untouchable comment wasn’t directed at you but I’ve seen it on here and you’re a Lowry supporter so…as far as team needs, the team needs GOOD players with SERIOUS talents. No different than the Stoudemire for Scola argument last yr…yea we don’t necessarily need Amare, but he’s an upgrade at PF. Amare is better…just like Monta is better. There’s “no” way you can convince me different. You don’t pass up on guys like that…
by GreenRocket on Jun 25, 2011 8:25 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Most XBox owners tend to be morons when they shoot their mouth off. It was a safe bet.
Scola for Amare was a case of “Don’t deal because you’re getting broken merchandise.” When it comes to your Ellis fetish the Rockets need defensive players, not less efficient Kevin Martins. You’re advocating trying to make a team that will score 130 points but won’t stop a team of midgets on the court.
My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased
Please name the 15 PG's you'd rather have
I’d take Rondo, Rose, Tony Parker, Nash, Paul, Williams, and maybe John Wall.
by Patrick Harrel on Jun 25, 2011 8:11 PM CDT up reply actions
westbrook and Jrue Holliday, he's still young. But that's it.
At this point with age and wear factored in, I would rather have Kyle over Nash and Parker.
Welcome to Houston Kevin McHale. Just remember "It was Minnesota" is no longer an excuse.
nevermind
Smh…unplug yourself
by GreenRocket on Jun 25, 2011 8:27 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
I would not take Westbrook
He made the Thunder lose with he selfishness.
by SpaceCityFan on Jun 26, 2011 10:01 AM CDT up reply actions
Then you'd be choosing wrong
That’s what he was told to do. He could take his man off the dribble 98 times out of 100. It’s called a mismatch. There is a reason KD never seemed to get mad about it
www.TheDreamShake.com Co-Founder and Writer
If he was told to constantly jack up
low percentage shots and shoot his team out of the game then the coach needs to be fired immediately.
by Bobbythegreat on Jun 27, 2011 8:57 AM CDT up reply actions
He was shooting from the lane
What’s low percentage?
Not that all of his shots were, but he was open quite a bit, just wasn’t hitting the looks.
www.TheDreamShake.com Co-Founder and Writer
He took a lot of ill advised
3 point attempts too. He is lucky every time he gets to the charity stripe because that is basically the only way he can score consistently.
by Bobbythegreat on Jun 27, 2011 1:56 PM CDT up reply actions
Name those 15 better PG's please.
"Hakeem couldn't kick your ass cuz you were too
close kissin his!"- Sir Charles to Kenny Smith.
by bone31crusher on Jun 25, 2011 11:45 PM CDT up reply actions
Better PG's
Here are 10 names that every GM in the league, including Morey, would rather have than Lowry;
Paul
Westbrook
Rose
Deron Williams
Nash
Parker
Steph Curry
Rondo
Wall
Kyrie Irving
Others that would be in a peer group and considered better than Lowry by at least some;
Billups
Stuckey
Lawson
Felton
Calderon
Brandon Knight
Devin Harris
Jumping the gun already.
Curry is a good scorer, not a point guard, more a 2 guard. Kyrie Irving? HE HASN’T PLAYED AN NBA GAME YET!
Parker is over the hill and on the decline, Lowry distributes at an equivalent pace, plays better D, AND shoots better.
You reached real hard.
My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased
by BD34 on Jun 26, 2011 3:07 PM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
Reach???
No, he’s RIGHT…its a difference.
by GreenRocket on Jun 26, 2011 3:43 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
The difference is what level of insanity it takes to reach that conclusion.
The requisite level, by the way, is batshit insanity.
My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased
Nuttier than squirrel shit?
My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased
by BD34 on Jun 26, 2011 7:51 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Wow. Singling out the Rockets best player as the problem is sort of astonishing.
Lowry played better than all but a handful of PG in the second half. His D was considered the best in the NBA by some very credible observers. Let me repeat that – best in the NBA. What are his weaknesses? Seriously, you seem to know everything, so lay it out.
It’s not D.
It’s not 3pt shooting, he fixed that.
It’s not distributing.
It’s not finishing.
It’s not FT shooting.
He’s also one of the best rebounding PG in the NBA.
Let’s really look at that list. Paul (if he can play like he did in the playoffs) Williams Rose are clearly better.
How about the others?
Rondo – great D, great passing. Can’t shoot. At all. Can’t hit FT. This is a growing problem for him and puts a ceiling on his upside. When you can’t let your PG handle at the end of close games for fear of intentional fouls, you have a serious problem.
Nash – Better where he is? Superior passer and shooter. Awful defender. One year, soon, it’s all going to go away. So for one season maybe you take him over Lowry.
Parker – great on the drive, adequate passer, poor defender, constantly health issues and doesn’t seem to be aging well. Not a great shooter from 3pt range.
Curry – looks like a SG in a PG package most of the time. Excellent scorer. Amazing shooter. Improving as a passer. Slightly more effective on D than an orange traffic cone or Kevin Martin.
Wall – Yes, I’d trade Lowry for him, but his greatness is not a sure thing yet. Elite size and speed. Great ability to steal the ball, less impressive actually defending.
Kyrie Irving? Really? Could we wait to see him actually play an NBA game?
Now the others – I would trade none of them for Lowry. None.
Billups – did you actually see him at the end of the season? The shot appears to be gone, he was never a fast PG, he’s now approaching “ponderous”.
Stuckey – for a combo guard he’s an ok point. It’s never seemed to happen for him, has it?
Lawson – If he’s so great why does Denver keep bringing in established PGs?
Felton – an equivalent player is some respects but not as good on D.
Calderon – That’s hilarious.
Brandon Knight – Glad to see Rodney Stuckey has some competition as a SG at point.
Devin Harris – Who knows? Looks broken.
"Each in turn... volunteered his suggestions, his invaluable suggestions."
Twitter - xiane1
The Dreamshake
by Xiane on Jun 28, 2011 1:02 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
spot on Xiane
but i would like Rondo next to Kmartin, he works ok with Ray. Meaning his D is good and has an excellent pass and drive then kick.
The content of the text above is provided for information purposes only. No claim is made as to the accuracy or authenticity of the content. The troll does not accept any liability to any person for the information or advice (or the use of such information or advice) which is provided in the text above.
Just got back to a PC
BD,
If you don’t think ALL 32 GMs would take the recent #1 pick in the draft over Kyle Lowry, you’re crazy. Do you think Darryl Morey would’ve said ‘no’ if Cleveland called and said “I’ll send you our first pick in return for Lowry. Will you do it?”
As for Parker his True Shooting Percentage last year was .569. Lowry’s was .550. Who shoots better?
And Steph Curry is just as much a point guard at Derrick Rose. Curry assisted on 23.9% of his possessions, Rose just 22.7%. Lowry assisted on 31.7% of his. But my point remains that any team would pick Curry over Lowry to be their starting point guard.
You miss the point entirely and don't differentiate stats that need to be differentiated.
1.) Of course most GMs say yes, we’re a rebuilding team, if you can go ahead and get the number 1 pick while you’re rebuilding you go ahead and take it regardless of who you have. That’s not to say that the guy coming in is necessarily better but you can build with him. It’s a long term option when you consider rebuilding. You’re creating a red herring to prove your point and I won’t fall for it.
2.) True Shooting Percentage is not in question here. When I say “Lowry shoots better” I mean he shoots the three better. You also leave out usage rates as well, so through virtue of ignorance and neglect of other metrics that TS% is contingent upon.
3.) Curry prefers to stretch and Golden State’s offense is predicated on spacing and shooting. He will inherently assist on a higher percentage. Rose has to shoulder a scoring load because Boozer was out most of last season and are you gonna dump the ball to Joakim Noah for offense?
You had to mislead very hard to prove your point and when someone comes in who knows about the use of advanced metrics and how context makes a huge difference in deals, you get ripped apart on it.
My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased
Seriously?
1) I say again that every GM in the NBA believes Kyrie Irving will be a better player than Kyle Lowry. Period.
2) You didn’t say that Lowry was a better 3-point shooter. You said he shoots better. TS% is the best representative of how well someone shoots. If you want to debate 3P%, you should have said so at the start. You don’t get to define the terms of the debate to only the ones you like.
2) What does usage rate have to do with shooting ability? TS% is independent of how many shots a player takes. Usage is a measure of how often a player shoots, not how successful he is.
3) What’s your point here? You’re the one who claimed Curry isn’t a point guard. I listed him because he plays the point for GS. Your opinion on whether he is really a point guard is just that; your opinion.
I misled no one and I provided data to back up my opinions. You, on the other hand, have spouted nothing except personal points of view with nothing to back them up. I’d love to see some of the advance statistics you claim to master to back up your position.
You’ve quickly moved into the annoying dick arena, despite your signature line.
I didn't know willieboyd opened up another account.
You misled by using advanced metrics without addressing their qualifying metrics. The further you go into a specialty the less viable it is without support. True Shooting percentage and usage go hand in hand. Your TS% tends to decrease as your usage increases for the simple fact that most possessions end with you, therefore you’re putting up more shots, arguably under pressure. You don’t address usage but you attempt to use the veil of TS to prove an entire point without paying attention to at least 50% of the issue.
Yes, I should have clarified three point shooting but I’d still rather rely on Lowry to space the floor AND conduct all the duties of a point guard rather than have Tony Parker on the floor and let his man float into the lane and clog up driving lanes.
My point with Curry is that if you mismatch a guy at a position he will have stronger showings than in other spots. Chuck Hayes plays the 5, is he a 5? No. Tim Duncan played the 5, is he a 5 or a 4? He’s a 4. Kevin Garnett, same thing. Again, context explains a lot.
As far as “not having anything to back up my points”, apparently common sense and observation aren’t as useful as they used to be because we can hide behind numbers and forget the fact that numbers don’t lie but for the love of Raptor Jesus they can be manipulated.
My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased
Don't know who willieboyd is
but am getting a clear picture of who you are.
Clearly, shooting percentage typically goes down when one shoots more. But guess what? Let’s look at the two players in dispute:
Usage TS%
.249 .569 Player A
.189 .550 Player B
I see one player who has the ball in his hands much more often than the other and still shoots better than the other.
Common sense and observation would be truly useful if they really were common and backed up with some basis in fact. Aren’t you the one who, in an earlier post, claimed to be an expert in advanced metrics? Perhaps you could cite some to support your case.
I never claimed to be an expert, I said I understood how to use them.
If you feel as though I’m an expert that’s on you.
My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased
Perhaps if Lowery had started
His shot would have smoothed out sooner and he would have gained the 2% difference on Parker. If he had played point guard early on instead of AB we might not have blown so many leads. Kyle plays the pick and role pretty well defensively and if RA wouldn’t have run from directly at the top of the key every time we might have got more points off of it.
Kyle may not be the best point guard in the league but he is the right one for the Rockets. Call me biased.
"Do not panic, all is well" Kevin Bacon in the parade scene in the movie Animal House
by mjdinhouston on Jun 27, 2011 7:09 AM CDT up reply actions
one problem
Billups should be on the top list(he’s a finals MVP c’mon)…maybe Harris and Stuckey on top list too. Great job though, my list wasn’t much different at all. Finally some sanity in here…sheesh.
by GreenRocket on Jun 26, 2011 3:48 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Billups gets an edge if we're talking historically, currently, not a chance.
My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased
and if you consider contracts and age
not a chance in hell.
Lowry is cheap, young, improving, and already a better than avg starting player at a difficult-to-fill position. SF and C are clearly where the Rockets need to upgrade.
by Moochie's Fro on Jun 26, 2011 4:05 PM CDT up reply actions
lol
Boy you really are a law student aren’t you lol. Give it up, you’re “reaching” lol.
by GreenRocket on Jun 26, 2011 4:11 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
WOW
The kid gave you “a half” of a good season in his career and you take him over CHAUNCEY BILLUPS…smh this has gotten outta hand. Maybe you just like seeing Kyle in red??? Lol smh
by GreenRocket on Jun 26, 2011 4:19 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Hate to burst your bubble but Chauncey has been on the decline since a couple years ago.
You’re the one trying too hard and getting called out for what can only be called criminally short-sighted observations. As of now, due to age and ability, Kyle is the edge. I’m gonna go and ignore you from this point forward because it’s obvious you have no clue what you’re talking about.
My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased
thank you
P.s. You need to stop putting your 2 cents aka smart ass comments on EVERYONE else’s posts like you’re some basketball God or something. You remind me of Hubie Brown lmao.
by GreenRocket on Jun 26, 2011 5:20 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Open forum, everyone's free to comment as they please.
Suck it up.
My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased
by BD34 on Jun 26, 2011 5:35 PM CDT up reply actions 4 recs
Hubie Brown is the man.
"Hakeem couldn't kick your ass cuz you were too
close kissin his!"- Sir Charles to Kenny Smith.
by bone31crusher on Jun 27, 2011 6:39 PM CDT up reply actions
you can't be serious...
Chauncey Billups is old, expensive, and on a steep decline. what would you accomplish by having Billups on the Rocket roster? i doubt Miami makes a play for Billups, and they’re probably a little closer to championship contender than the Rockets.
by Moochie's Fro on Jun 26, 2011 4:30 PM CDT up reply actions
whatever
Billups is an upgrade for Miami as well as Houston…but for the record I never wanted Billups on the roster(I want Monta). To say Lowry is better than Billups is like saying Lowry is better than J Kidd(maybe it makes more sense to you guys that way) which is a slap in the face to any who has ever played in the NBA at a high/hall of fame level.
by GreenRocket on Jun 26, 2011 5:11 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Lowry still has upside...
That’s why we want him. We aren’t contenders. We need guys we can develop. J. Kidd and Billups are both excellent players. But they can only go downhill. And quickly.
"You know how Einstein got bad grades as a kid? Well, mine are
even worse! " ~Bill Watterson, Calvin and Hobbes
by TheChuckwagonisrolling on Jun 26, 2011 5:50 PM CDT up reply actions
You probably need to take projection into account
Billup was in the league 5 years before being regarded as a a top tier point guard, and he’s closer to 40 than he is 30 now
Kyle Lowry just got his first stable starting gig at his 6th season, and is 25.
I would we’re hitting the intersection of their relative abilities soon, if not already.
when you put up that list , did you mean for the next season, or for the next few seasons.
No doubt J-Kidd is probably a hall of famer, but if we offer Kyle Lowry locked down for the next 3 season for J-Kidd, Mav will think very very hard, and probably would pull the trigger had they not won a title
No they wouldn't
They’d pull the trigger immediately. No team in the league would take Kidd next year or the next 3 over Kyle. That would be idiotic
www.TheDreamShake.com Co-Founder and Writer
I wouldn't sign Billups
for the Rockets next year but that’s not what my list was for.
My point in drawing up that list was to show that there are many point guards in the NBA better than Lowry. He’s an average player at his position but it seems people on this site believe he’s in the elite.
Billups
Last season Lowry was a better rebounder and had a higher assist ratio but Billups was a significantly better shooter.
Billups clearly is on the downside of his career but there’s no guarantee Lowry will be able to reproduce, much less exceed what he did in the second half of last season.
There's no guarantee we wake up tomorrow.
Shall we save ourselves the trouble and kill ourselves now or shall we go with the knowledge that we continue to wake up and have fruitful days so we should operate on that notion that it tends to be true?
My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased
by BD34 on Jun 26, 2011 8:33 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
me, myself and the hoops
thats monte…battlecry..attitude that cant win championship…
by jecrox11 on Jun 26, 2011 7:48 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
exactly
plus..if rockets wants to kiss their playoff chances goodbye..acquire MONTE ‘M.E’ ELLIS and dumped KLOW..Say hello to LOTTERY
by jecrox11 on Jun 26, 2011 7:54 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
The Rockets have become
acquainted with LOTTERY, there is no need for introductions.
by Bobbythegreat on Jun 26, 2011 11:34 AM CDT up reply actions
I think we're going to have to agree to disagree.
Strongly disagree with everything you say.
"Hakeem couldn't kick your ass cuz you were too
close kissin his!"- Sir Charles to Kenny Smith.
by bone31crusher on Jun 25, 2011 11:43 PM CDT up reply actions
Defensive liability?
That’s funny, because ESPN writers unanimously voted Lowry onto the NBA All-Defense third team.
“We can’t be watching the same Rockets…..”
I’m guesing you missed the games where Lowry shut down CP3, Nash, and Rondo, three of the best PG’s in the league.
If anyone is a defensive liability, it’s Martin. Scola is also one.
Lowry is our only legitimate two way player on the team aside from Lee and maybe Morris.
I couldn’t disagree more with this.
"Hakeem couldn't kick your ass cuz you were too
close kissin his!"- Sir Charles to Kenny Smith.
by bone31crusher on Jun 25, 2011 5:16 PM CDT up reply actions
Scola not dead yet
I think Scola still has some trade value. He has a great work ethic and hustle.
8 RB and 15 PPG. Although he is a black hole at times. When you give him the ball, you don’t get it back. He’s going to the hole, triple teamed or not. I like his effort though.
Lowry's a keeper, not untouchable
PGs and Cs are the hardest positions to fill, unless you’re ok with a “combo-guard” (read: inefficient scorer who can’t facilitate or make his teammates better) running your team, and an unskilled stiff manning the middle.
PGs who can facilitate, play D, and hit the outside shot are gold, which is why I think you have to keep Lowry. (of course, if somebody like Deron Williams or Chris Paul is available, you drop him in a heartbeat, but that ain’t realistic.)
I love Scola and like K-Mart a lot. but i just don’t think you’re getting a lot for them in a trade, because other teams don’t value Scola’s unathletic but effective game or K-Mart’s offensive efficiency as much as the Rockets do.
by Moochie's Fro on Jun 26, 2011 2:44 PM CDT up reply actions
Highly doubt all those guys will be at training camp
Good write up. I just think a trade is imminent, kinda like last year when we traded Ariza. Something’s bound to go down after the CBA is set, it’s almost guaranteed
by Carlos_HoustonSportsFanatic on Jun 25, 2011 1:32 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
Glad to see you come around, BD
Bottom line for me is that after bashing the Landry/Brooks draft, I’ve learned to never knee jerk again until we see them on the court. Which is why I never give out draft grades.
I'm willing to grade, I just had to sober up from the initial reactions to the picks and hear the explanations from the front office.
I had to do the whole autonomous thing and evaluate it and feel through whether or not I’m being fed a line of BS but I’m a fan now that I get a chance to reflect. I’m hesitant on Morris but I’m falling in love with the Motiejunas pick up and even Parsons to an extent. The trade made me ecstatic.
My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased
love Donuts???
I hate to paint with such broad stereotypes, but a tall/skinny/skilled Euro who averages less than 5 boards a game and can’t play D = SOFT!
McHale can teach post skills and players can practice jumpers. But toughness is a hard skill to acquire. I’d have more hope of McHale turning Hill into a contributor, than a soft European big.
by Moochie's Fro on Jun 25, 2011 2:28 PM CDT up reply actions
realize that the Soft moniker stuck with Dirk for most of his career
and the lack of defense, too
It’s not gonna come immediately, it’s the same as anyone.
in term of physical tools, talent, polish, everything is there for this kid to succeed, it’s a worthy gamble at 20to pick up a guy that was gonna be a lottery pick just a year ago, with a move that reduced the salary as well
which is not to say I wont take him in a heart beat
Because I will
If he does that soft, I'll be hard.
My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased
by BD34 on Jun 25, 2011 5:17 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
Well apparently he has it back
Amazing how he get throw under the bus so easily
Donut is no Dirk... or Pau
I’m sorry, he just ain’t. That’s all there is to it.
Worth a gamble, I agree, but it’ll be hard for him to get any PT if he can’t rebound or play D. i don’t think he’ll be a threat in the post unless he adds at least 30 pounds of bulk. Chuck Wagon would eat him alive.
by Moochie's Fro on Jun 26, 2011 3:05 PM CDT up reply actions
He's actually not that skinny
in person. Man he does have some moves and they are quick. If his D skills catch up to his offense we are in for a good time. Boards are something of an anomaly in euro leagues. The way their centers are shooters often pulls the defender out on the perimeter. Granted I would have expected to see a few more/game but I think this kid really wants it bad. If the heart is there the skills will follow. McHale will definitely put a boot up his ass if necessary.
"Do not panic, all is well" Kevin Bacon in the parade scene in the movie Animal House
by mjdinhouston on Jun 27, 2011 7:22 AM CDT up reply actions
I'm loving the Morris pick,
and hesitant about the Donut pick.
I think Morris’ offensive versatility is going to be a huge matchup problem for most opposing teams.
Donut can be a mismatch as well, because he’s 7 feet and very quick, but he’s not an all-around player like Morris is. Defense and rebounding have to improve in order to get my approval.
As for Parsons, I’m still not sure why we drafted him.
"Hakeem couldn't kick your ass cuz you were too
close kissin his!"- Sir Charles to Kenny Smith.
by bone31crusher on Jun 25, 2011 2:32 PM CDT up reply actions
i like Morris only because of Morey's track record
let’s not get carried away with the Melo comparisons. but i like Morris only because Morey seems to do well picking the unsexy, unspectacular, solid-on-both-ends, work-ethic type of players.
the soft European players always look nice on the highlight reel, but those skills rarely translate to the NBA without some serious toughness. get the Donut some HGH and ’roids!
by Moochie's Fro on Jun 25, 2011 2:40 PM CDT up reply actions
I haven't taken into account the 'Melo comparisons.
I see Morris being the next David West.
"Hakeem couldn't kick your ass cuz you were too
close kissin his!"- Sir Charles to Kenny Smith.
by bone31crusher on Jun 25, 2011 3:14 PM CDT up reply actions
Lithuanians are notoriously tough.
I wouldn’t judge his toughness until I see him play however.
Me against the world is a mismatch in my favor.
7-footers who barely weigh 2 bills and grab 4 boards a game aren't notoriously anything..
except maybe for getting posterized
by Moochie's Fro on Jun 26, 2011 3:10 PM CDT up reply actions
Oh yea I forgot
20 year olds don’t have the capacity to bulk up or work on their game. Your comment is just a bad one. If you believe that this guy will only put up those numbers for his whole career then you have mental problems.
Me against the world is a mismatch in my favor.
SEC POTY
Led his team in rebounding. We are talking the 38th pick not the 8th pick. I’d say it is a value pick. He will get to spend time in the Valley but he looks like an all around player.
"Do not panic, all is well" Kevin Bacon in the parade scene in the movie Animal House
by mjdinhouston on Jun 27, 2011 7:24 AM CDT up reply actions
rec'd...and i love donatas,
i think hes going to be reallllyyyy good
and funny enough,the marcus morris and carmelo comparison is looking more and more similar as i watch more tape on him (offensively)
but how can you say that kevin mchale is the best post player of alltime? how about this blogs namesake? hakeem olajuwon!
Olajuwan was the better Player but McHale was better Low Post Player.
Hakeem was quicker, better shot blocker, better jump shooter, could run floor better and was just a better player than McHale. McHale was the best in Low Post.
McHale did more with less
Hakeem was CLEARLY the better player. But McHale was a lot more crafty in the low post, even with his limited athleticism. The hope is that some of those crafty skills will be teachable. You can’t teach Hakeem’s SF skills and athleticism to a 7-footer.
by Moochie's Fro on Jun 25, 2011 2:48 PM CDT up reply actions
i strongly disagree that mchale was better in the lowpost than the dream
but yeah everything else is true…
by Samarth Sulhan on Jun 25, 2011 2:50 PM CDT up reply actions
sorry, i meant Hakeem was CLEARLY the better player, in the post or anywhere
but McHale had more post moves… and maybe he can teach Hill and Thabeet how to ball.
by Moochie's Fro on Jun 25, 2011 3:07 PM CDT up reply actions
I think he said arguably
"Do not panic, all is well" Kevin Bacon in the parade scene in the movie Animal House
by mjdinhouston on Jun 27, 2011 7:25 AM CDT up reply actions
just realized
theres a good chance of seeing Leonard and Morris goin at it 4 times next season. That could be fun
"Stability is a factor in teams that win the championship. But if you stabilize on a team that's going to end up short of that, then all you're doing is spinning your wheels in the 45-win range."-----Daryl Morey
by fanoflosingteams on Jun 25, 2011 2:33 PM CDT reply actions
I think Morris is going to own Leonard, on both ends.
"Hakeem couldn't kick your ass cuz you were too
close kissin his!"- Sir Charles to Kenny Smith.
by bone31crusher on Jun 25, 2011 2:36 PM CDT up reply actions
I am really pumped on Morris
could be a really good player. I am less pumped on Monty but he has a lot more potential with a lot less chance of it being realized. Flynn with our dev staff seems scary to me.
Overall loved our draft day super stoked on the future.
Trading is an option
but I think it should only be done if their isn’t a player who looks like they can play starting center next year. If Hill, Thabeet, or even Motiejunas show enough defensive improvement before next year, a trade probably isn’t even necessary.
I would avoid having Motiejunas on the court at the same time as Scola, however, since Motiejunas seems just like Scola except with more range and worse in the paint.
Also, Morris is definitely a 3
If he slims down a little he can definitely have the speed to guard 3s, and defense is really what defines a position. His post skills have the potential to be really irritating to opponents.
You can get faster without slimming down.
His size is what I really like about him combined with those fairly polished skills. It helps him ridiculously in the post game both offensively and defensively.
by alexander_37 on Jun 25, 2011 7:02 PM CDT up reply actions
Regarding trades, and this is something I really should have covered in this post.
I think trades are something that have made this fanbase notoriously impatient. The assumption is that we’ve stockpiled and they we have to pull the trigger. What of the idea that we’ve stockpiled to evaluate and rebuild? Morey gets knocked for not pulling the trigger on the trade machine ideas people float around here but there’s not one person here privy to any trade talks so there’s not a single person here capable of judging the situation properly. We get guys like Terrence Williams, Hasheem Thabeet, Jordan Hill, et. al. and everyone turns around and assumes they’re trade-bait. What if they’re not? What if they’re legitimately players that we want to use? We have a roster that could go the full 15 deep (Granted two go IR if I recall correctly, or two slots are reserved for IR/RGV Vipers) with arguably good to great talent at every position.
Granted it’s most likely that if we’re full tilt rebuilding the only real trade bait is Scola (And yes, Martin, regardless of how much or how little you like this idea it’s best to acclimate yourself that he’s probably being shopped). When it boils down to it, I think everyone saying “We have to trade.” or “There’s a trade coming.” Needs to step back and breath a little and acknowledge that it may not even be the case that a trade is in mind (Unless of course someone says to Morey “Hey, I’ve got this all-star here and I want salary matched and a tugjob, make it work.” of course). We have a full roster and 14 on the team if we decide Parsons doesn’t get a spot/contract yet.
I’m willing to sit back and stop looking at our players as assets. When we label them assets we deprive them of their ability. We trivialize what they do and overlook what they contribute in the hopes that someone will fork over a franchise player. If a trade materializes, awesome, we gave up players. I’m done assuming we’re “shuffling chairs on the titanic.” We have players, we’re evaluating talent, and if the right deal comes along, we’ll go for it. I feel like this encapsulates Morey’s current thinking of the rebuild. Namely because Les doesn’t want to do things the easier way and be bad to be great. Morey has to keep the roster stable, tweak, and move since Les won’t let him blow it up. Patience continues to be the mantra because the kind of trade that the Rockets need doesn’t materialize easily and Leslie Alexander isn’t giving Daryl the latitude to go ahead and do this the traditional way.
My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased
Isn't it the GM's job to improve the team?
While I like the draft picks, this teams didn’t get significantly better from a 43 win team last season, considering McHale would have won 43 games with that roster last seson. (If I was a betting man which I am, I say under). As a fan if you’re not hoping for/expecting/demanding a trade for an impact player, then you are content with mediocrity. While yes it takes 2 GMs to tango, Morey has added pieces to make that happen. If he hasn’t, then what has he done besides give lip service and cash a paycheck?
Other than that, nice write up, glad you came around. I think Morris will be a nightmare for lanky wing defenders and will score with ease.
Welcome to Houston Kevin McHale. Just remember "It was Minnesota" is no longer an excuse.
I'm not saying I don't expect trade to improve the team, I seriously think Daryl has done that, as is evidenced by the significant increase in quality of non-star players.
Like I said, I see Morey as being patient on the trade front because there’s no point in dealing just to deal. Alexander is actually hamstringing Daryl’s ability to get anything done by not allowing him to firesale the roster, be bad for a year or two to get a high pick, and working with that.
I’m saying that by expecting a major trade, we’re not doing him justice. Every trade he does make gets put under a microscope of “Where’s my superstar giveaway?” And that should not be the case. Instead each trade needs to be seen as a chance to upgrade talent and increase the quality of our squad. If those culminate in a big name player, so be it, if they do not, did we at least upgrade our talent or find a better fit of equal value? If so, we’re on the right track, no?
My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased
I see what you're saying...
But this isn’t Tubby Smith’s UK team of the 90’s where there’s a 12 man rotation. I’m sorry but to reference John Wayne, this franchise isn’t big enough for Scola, Pat, and Hill. Right now this franchise is stuck in a rut. Youi’re just putting milage on her and changing the oil. You buy some cheap additive shit now and then and hope to get some more power. When what you really need is to supercharge that baby. And until that impact player is acquired, Houston is just going through the motions and treading water. Mind you when I say “impact” I’m talking about someone who can win a game down the stretch, not an elite superstar.
Welcome to Houston Kevin McHale. Just remember "It was Minnesota" is no longer an excuse.
I'm with you in that we need to drop a super charger in.
But I’m also a proponent of changing our oil, keeping our air filter clean, maybe tossing some octane booster in there to clean her out from time to time, and making sure I take care of the brake lines and replace the rotors and brakes once they get old. She may not be gaining 50 brake horse on maintenance but she’s keeping it up and might even be gaining a little if you maintain the air filter properly.
Sure, we’ll slap in that supercharger eventually but you don’t just buy any old supercharger, do you?
My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased
Shit with Morey
he’s probably looking for s brand new in box supercharger on ebay for 70% off.
Welcome to Houston Kevin McHale. Just remember "It was Minnesota" is no longer an excuse.
This is a better roster than we had mid point last year
Miller is gone, we are a lot bigger, and we have some great interchangeable parts. I said yesterday, if we can get a major upgrade, overpay as we can afford it. If not, go to war with the army you got.
Who on the roster right now
would be a viable option at starting C?
Welcome to Houston Kevin McHale. Just remember "It was Minnesota" is no longer an excuse.
Right now
you split time between Thabeet and Motiejunas and let Yao have one or two minutes a game until his foot falls off again as long as he is willing to sign for the minimum. If you don’t like the thought of that you make a play for Marc Gasol and hope you are able to steal him.
by Bobbythegreat on Jun 27, 2011 11:21 AM CDT up reply actions
Jake will kill you
For even thinking Thabeet deserves to play even when there are no more options.
Me against the world is a mismatch in my favor.
Hey, I'm all about giving him his shot....
Can he play? I don’t know, but neither do you. If he’s out there and doesn’t have a clue as to what’s going on and is out of place, then over time his teammates won’t trust him and it will kill continuity. The other 11 players who suit up have goals for the season. And sucking balls in hopes 1 guy develops isn’t on that list. Is that going to happen? Like I siad neither of us know at this point. It would be in the Rockets’ best interest though to have a proven commodity there “just in case.” Whether it be Biedrins, Chuck, someone else, I don’t know. But to start the season with Thabeet and Moti as your Cs on the depth chart is flirting with disaster. Yeah, I’m not expecting too much this season as far as record/playoffs… But an expirement with a project player probably won’t bode too well with the other veterans on the team who wan’t to be competitve. I’m sorry, but you can’t have it both ways. You either want to be full-out rebuilding or not, the gray area in between is where the Rockets are, and you really don’t want to be there for the third straight season do you?
Welcome to Houston Kevin McHale. Just remember "It was Minnesota" is no longer an excuse.
Honest question here, no sarcasm at all:
Now that in an interview it fleshed out that Daryl Morey is being asked to rebuild without having a below .500 year, does that open some slack for Morey in your opinion of him?
I ask that because I feel you’ve critiqued him very harshly in his acquisition quest but given he can’t go all in on a big gamble (If we go for broke and full on rebuild and miss Alexander will have him canned) so he has to hedge his bets. Unless the perfect trade comes along Morey, by virtue of his boss’s expectations, cannot pull the trigger on a trade. He’s being told “Don’t compromise what we have but make it better.” He’s stuck in that awkward area having to play chess 40 moves ahead so he can try to offload what he’s got without giving up what he’s done. That’s a very very tricky situation.
I kind of feel like he’s on Ninja Warrior (I Hope you’ve seen it, awesome show) and he’s at the stepping stones. Every step will be wobbly and if you go slow, the clock will punish you, if you go quickly, you wind up in the water and eliminated. Alexander has told Daryl “sprint but don’t fall.” Caution is necessary but don’t have it. He keeps getting his balance and shifting his weight as he goes but Leslie won’t let him go through the obstacle in the smartest/usual way.
My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased
Me personally I don't put any blame on Les
as far as expectations go. I’ve gone over why you shouldn’t have to lose to win in a city like Houston. Willing owner, good fans, unbelievable tv deal, great arena, a top 7 city for an athlete to live…. So when you say “rebuild without having a sub .500 season” is that really necessary? First of all, if Daryl thinks he’s being asked to do too much, then obviously he and Les aren’t on the same page which results in Daryl making calculated decisions so if something doesn’t work out there’s justification so he won’t get canned. (Bingo) Honestly I don’t think he’s asking too much, and I think we both can agree that the “gray area” they are in is the absolute worst place to be. An example would be the almost “renting” of Dampier before the last two seasons. Only contending teams should rent players. That was more of a “fuck, we are thin at center and the season starts next week” almost desperation move. Which makes me believe that Daryl has had one too many lunches with Ed Wade and Rick Smith.
People who blame the Yao injuries are Daryl supporting enablers. For example, there’s a guy on Dallas right now in Brendan Haywood who has accumulated some DNP-CDs. However this guy would start and play 30mpg for the Rockets. Am I offering that Houston should go after him? No, I’m discounting everyone’s “oh we suck and don’t have a C because ours is hurt” notions.
As far as the rebuilding, there’s no way around it that we aren’t in full-out mode. We’re not moving on from the Dream, and in the last two seasons, we’re not moving on from anything. This goes back to the lack of identity that every franchise should have at some ponit, let alone 2 plus years.
As far as the TV show, no I haven’t watched it. But I am reminded of another show in this situation. Hoarders. Ya know when they go to the people’s house and they have 25 thousand plastic containers inside and you can’t even walk. Well instead of containers, imagine bobbleheads of Kevin Martin and Courtney Lee, and futre draft picks (if it had physical matter). Because when the crazy people’s family comes over and tells their mom that they have to part ways, they start going crazy. Shitty comparison I know, but I just saw a commercial of it during Dog the Bounty Hunter. Am I asking too much? Probably. But the lack of direction/unwarrented love for Morey really pisses me off.
Welcome to Houston Kevin McHale. Just remember "It was Minnesota" is no longer an excuse.
What's funny is I agree with essentially everything I just read but I come down in a different opinion.
When it comes to comparing Houston to any other organization the TV deal has nothing to do with it, the Rockets have financial resources, yes, but certainly I don’t think Les is as good an owner as everyone talks about. Especially when you consider it’s Les keeping the team in this state of flux, not Daryl. I mean, TV deals don’t make player acquisitions and they don’t win titles.
I think it is necessary to rebuild with a .500 season because when we look at teams that have flipped guys and skirted rebuilding (Boston was mired in this kind of hell for a couple years and it took them the number 5 pick and Al Jefferson to get out of that cycle) we’ve been stuck with the 14th and late 1st rounders, which generally won’t help put your proposal over the edge or get a franchise player. That’s what this all hinges on, having a franchise guy. Those are drafted, rarely handed over. I guess I just feel like Daryl isn’t given a fair shot if his boss tells him “Do the impossible.” and then we ride him for not getting the rarest of prizes in the NBA, a franchise player, without a high draft pick.
I am 100% agreed that we’re in a gray area, but that helps to explain our drafting. We have no choice but to stack best player available because we don’t have a big name guy to deliver us anything. We’re hoarding out of necessity but I do agree there is probably some reluctance to relinquish it but it comes from the fact that we’ve got blood in the water. Everyone knows what we need, people want what we have, but no one is expected to take it easy on you in a deal if they know you’re desperate, you know?
My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased
Houston does not have good fans
Everytime I argue with someone about the Rockets I get ganged up on and never have anyone back me up. It’s like they hate the Rockets in Houston. We have horrible fans.
Me against the world is a mismatch in my favor.
We have awesome fans...
We have me
"You know how Einstein got bad grades as a kid? Well, mine are
even worse! " ~Bill Watterson, Calvin and Hobbes
by TheChuckwagonisrolling on Jun 27, 2011 2:50 PM CDT up reply actions
And we have great fans.....
We have me.
by Bobbythegreat on Jun 27, 2011 2:52 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm sorry but as a whole
Houston fans are just pathetic. They are so wishy washy and short sighted about shit. They will also turn on you as soon as you sprain an ankle.
Me against the world is a mismatch in my favor.
They will turn on you if you sprain an ankle
and then while you are out, you get completely outplayed and you never return to form but still cry about having to come off the bench. Yeah that will happen.
by Bobbythegreat on Jun 27, 2011 2:58 PM CDT up reply actions
Nice try
But you and nobody else will get me into another AB debate.
Me against the world is a mismatch in my favor.
God forbid that happens.
"Hakeem couldn't kick your ass cuz you were too
close kissin his!"- Sir Charles to Kenny Smith.
by bone31crusher on Jun 27, 2011 6:38 PM CDT up reply actions
When it comes to Rockets' fans...
Basketball always has been and always will be third fiddle in this town(post dream/Texans inception). It’s the way it is. If you go to the average sports fan in Houston, they probably couldn’t tell you last years starting line up. However, do not resonate the fair weather NBA fan in Houston to attendance or lack of financial support. Half of the lower level is corporate. Half of those people don’t go to the game (shame) and the other half hang in the Lexus Lounge during the game. That said, there are fans on the top in the last row eating ramen noodles every night so they can afford tickets. So yes, there are clueless people in Houston who could care less about the Rockets, but don’t let that skew the perception. When I say we have great fans, “great” might be a slight over-statement. But it could be a lot worse. Let’s just say Houston would be fine if there was ever contraction.
Welcome to Houston Kevin McHale. Just remember "It was Minnesota" is no longer an excuse.
Dude
We have the 4th (I think 3rd now) largest population in the country. We are competitive season after season, superstar or no superstar, playoffs or no playoffs and we get shitted on by our so-called fans here in Houston. We should be selling way more tickets than we currently do. If all else fails we were always an exciting team to watch but yet these bull shit fans continue to shit on us. I will say this for last time, Houston fans are pathetic.
Me against the world is a mismatch in my favor.
Rockets fans are pathetic.
Texans fans are not.
Every game in Texans history has been sold out.
"Hakeem couldn't kick your ass cuz you were too
close kissin his!"- Sir Charles to Kenny Smith.
by bone31crusher on Jun 27, 2011 6:37 PM CDT up reply actions
Considering the popularity of football in the state...
and considering the fact that there’s only 8 home games a year.
Welcome to Houston Kevin McHale. Just remember "It was Minnesota" is no longer an excuse.
and considering the fact that the franchise is still working to break .500 if I recall correctly
but they’re still sold out, with higher ticket prices, and more seating capacity.
It’s a tougher feat to sell out your home games 8 times a year in the NFL than it is to sell 75% of your NBA home games for a season. Then again, I think it was the Golden State Warriors who had some of the longest home sell-out streaks in NBA History and they were failing to put a playoff product on the floor for the vast majority of those years.
Here’s my gripe with Houston fans:
Multiple 50+ win seasons they complain they’re not champions.
A couple of rough skid 42 win seasons they complain they’re not in the playoffs.
They decide to rebuild, they complain they won’t be mediocre anymore.
We take longer than 2-3 years to rebuild, we’re the Timberwolves.
There’s no pleasing some people if there will be complains no matter how much success you manage to roll out.
My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased
by BD34 on Jun 27, 2011 8:50 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
BD in all fairness....
A Texans football game isn’t just a sporting event, it’s a way of life. Yes the product sucks, but severral people spend thousands of dollars just to tailgate. It doesn’t matter how much the Texans suck, the fans will be there. I would compare the popularity of the sport of football in Houston to that of Hockey in Vancouver. This all goes back to basketball being third fiddle in this city, it’s just the way it is. When it comes to basketball, they are fair weather fans. However, Rockets’ fans are more loyal and passionate than the most die hard Astros fans and Texans fans.
Also, the marketing and R&D department of the Toyota center for Rockets games is horrible. Like I said, half of the lower level is corporate. Half of those tickets aren’t used, and the other half drink in the bar. That’s why if you watch a game on tv it looks empty.
Welcome to Houston Kevin McHale. Just remember "It was Minnesota" is no longer an excuse.
So do you sell tickets to the corporate people
Or do you wait for a fan to call you to get a lower bowl seat and get fired while you are waiting?
If people will step up and buy the tickets we won’t need to have this conversation.
"Do not panic, all is well" Kevin Bacon in the parade scene in the movie Animal House
by mjdinhouston on Jun 28, 2011 3:17 PM CDT up reply actions
Going with the Car thing
I think the best way to describe what we are doing is making little improvements that add 3-7HP each, one we do enough things we max out our potential. We add high flow mufflers and lighter wheels, new shocks and just about everything else that can make us better in the in interim. That way when we DO get a star we are ready to be the fastest car on the road.
Just got to hope that
There’s not too many miles on that car though.
Welcome to Houston Kevin McHale. Just remember "It was Minnesota" is no longer an excuse.
I think you are missing his point
All he is saying is that we should give the talent we acquired a chance to be evaluated before you get rid of something you wish you hadn’t.
Me against the world is a mismatch in my favor.
I agree entirely
Honestly, the players the Rockets acquired in the draft have potential to be big time scorers (especially Motiejunas). They might not be. But they could be team-making players. Given that we’ve traded older players to get unproven talents like Hasheem Thabeet, it would be really dumb to trade for an older player that might not fit in with the other improving players.
Is it really necessary to have a fire sale to rebuild?
I can see your point and that is the traditional way.
BTW you had a great point in saying that maybe we are not trading at all. I know I assumed we were going to get one done. Perhaps these young players are developing rather well in the off season and under a new coach will flourish.
"Do not panic, all is well" Kevin Bacon in the parade scene in the movie Animal House
by mjdinhouston on Jun 27, 2011 7:31 AM CDT up reply actions
all i think
is we now need to find a team in need of 4s or point guards. Orlando, Denver, New Orleans, Sacramento, Atlanta, San Antonio and New York are teams with one or both of those needs. If we land a Josh Smith, Dwight Howard or Chris Paul, it will likely include one of these teams not possessing that player as a third to add pieces to in order to make salaries and stuff match, considering we now lack any major expiring contracts to make a deal work with us dealing out young talent in exchange for a high-paid proven player.
Wafer . . . again. (Marv Albert, HOU v. CLE Feb 2009)
-one of the FEW at Toyota Center who has the Wafer jersey
All these people changing and getting more/more hypocritical
SOO many people hating on the trade and the draft now act like they were all for it!
Fuckin bullshit in my opinion.
Grab ur balls and admit that u were a hater because you can’t think properly when what u wanted/expected did not go thru.
Boo hoo that u didnt get ur player and just grow up(ironic username)
plz just stfu and stop actin like a happy child when u wer a little whiny B just 2 days ago.
BD34 I appreciate ur ability to admit that u wer thinkin lik an idiot and now u jumped on the optimistic/reasonable bandwagon.
For all those who want to trade/make a rotational player of Budinger, I agree.
For all those who praised/worshipped him and now want to get rid of him——-go screw urself u hypocrits.
NOW u want a defensive minded 3. LOLZ. we traded away some1 called Battier.
Flynn has a chance to B fuckin raw and I feel bad for Lowry and Dragic b/c THEY WILL have to step up. pretty much the majority of the WHOLE BLOG hated and are now they want to pretend like they were proponents of the trade/draft?
-———————
Morris and Donatas has potential to b amazing.
Singleton/ Leonard had good d but if u expect that defense to automatically b translated then ur insane. Dont get me wrong, they might turn out to b defensive stoppers, but at best they turn out to b Battiers w/o ANY offense. Morris has a chance to b David West with batter handles and slashing ability. Donatas has a chance to b Dirk. POTENTIAL always dominates espicially for a team that NEEDS GOOD players. WE arent looking for those “pretty good” players b/c that wont bring us a championship.
I cant believe at the stupidity of some ppl. how can u dislike the trade for FLynn? I understand the draft picks but we got rid of BRAD MILLER for a possible ALL STAR pg.
Chandler PArsons might not turn out to b anything, but he has a chance to b an adequate all around 3. BTW he can rebound/shoot. I think he is extremely underrated in those areas.
by Just A Little Kid on Jun 25, 2011 7:47 PM CDT reply actions
haters gonna hate
I like the passion, but lets not go overboard on Flynn. He’s probably just trade bait with the Hawks.
Welcome to Houston Kevin McHale. Just remember "It was Minnesota" is no longer an excuse.
No.
I think we’re going to give him a shot to land the backup spot.
He fits our system, and he’s very talented.
Let him compete for the backup job, and if he doesn’t get it, then shop him.
"Hakeem couldn't kick your ass cuz you were too
close kissin his!"- Sir Charles to Kenny Smith.
by bone31crusher on Jun 25, 2011 11:49 PM CDT up reply actions
i think flynn has the potential to be a franchise point gaurd for us
he averaged 14 and 6 his rookie year, comparable to chris paul’s 18 and 8 who did it with more minutes
and he’s still only 22…
by Samarth Sulhan on Jun 26, 2011 10:57 AM CDT up reply actions
in like Flynn..
i like Flynn.. it’s sort of the same BUY-LOW scenario that Morey used to acquire a certain better-than-avg, solid starting PG from Memphis.
that’s kind of why i’d like the Rockets to hang on to Flynn. best case scenario, in my mind, is Dragic plays really well to start the season, and the Rockets trade him as a SELL-HIGH asset. then develop Flynn, pick up another buy-low PG in the off-season, rinse, and repeat.
by Moochie's Fro on Jun 26, 2011 3:19 PM CDT up reply actions
The morning after the morning after
Let me begin by saying I like Morey as our GM,heck,I WANT Morey as our GM.
Buuuut…that doesn’t mean I agree w/everything he does. And in this case I think he screwed the pooch.
In every Press Conference Morey sells his picks,it’s his job. Remember how Dorsey was going to own the glass and anchor the defense like Ray Lewis?
Morey has made some very good draft picks,but how many of them are on the team?
Brooks,Landry gone. Leunen never even got a look in reg season.
Greene,Dorsey gone.
Taylor gone,Bud still here,Llull hasn’t come over.
Patterson’s here.
If you’re counting,that’s 2 of 3 Firsts gone,and only one Second of 6 made,still here of picks made from his first 4 drafts. At some point,you have to get long-term players out of your drafts.
The team can spin how these are their guys as much as they want,but they were willing to GIVE UP BOTH PICKS to Detroit for the #8 and Biyombo.(And while we’re at it the team was trying to move up to #2,so at best these were their sloppy thirds.)
Once the team decided to stay at #14 the question remains,who’s the best value? Was Morris,a player w/out a position that much Better Player Available than a Singleton,Leonard who just happened to fit a need?
Singleton,Leonard have played SF,they know what the position entails,they know what they need to do to defend SFs. Morris has spent his time defending bigs,does he have any clue on how to drop off his man and to rotate back,how to fight thru a screen on perimeter?
The Rockets are left HOPING Morris can learn how to play SF when there were talented players who KNEW how to do so available.(And I find the Carmelo example hilarious-Carmelo was ready to score 30pts the minute he stepped on an NBA floor,can’t say the same about Morris.)
The Rockets had the chance to draft a lock-down defender to put next to Martin and instead opted for a offensive-oriented player who they hope they can convert from a PF to a SF,something that rarely happens successfully.
My opinion,it was a big mistake,but I will be extremely happy to be proven wrong.
agree on Morey 100%
Morris compared to Mello —> If he was allowed to take >25 shots a game like Mello he may go close.
I don’t like the idea of Martin and Bud starting at all especially when their is no rim protection.
The content of the text above is provided for information purposes only. No claim is made as to the accuracy or authenticity of the content. The troll does not accept any liability to any person for the information or advice (or the use of such information or advice) which is provided in the text above.
I respect ur position but...
Singleton and Leonard are simply Defensive players and there are two main/possible results:
1) avg at guarding the NBA level and doesnt have ANY offense to rely on.
2) Ariza/Battier w/o the “o”
You cannot expect them to b a sure thing on “D”. Plus even if they are, Even if they were better than Ariza or the top at D, THAT IS NOT ENOUGH for us to win championships. Time after time, we fail to score when needed, Singleton and Leonard WILL MOST LIKELY be a HUGE liability on offense. They cant shoot 3s or drive, so we are left the other team doubling the Martins, Scolas, Lowrys of our team. They may help us on D, but they will fuck us on the O side. IF u believe there Defensive skills will translate, u also MUST expect their LOW offensive skills to also translate. The good/ great/succesful dfensive players in the league have some facet of an offense( whether it b a 3 pt shot, drifving ability, inside presence). Many get carried away in the hypes of a player. Team Defense is more important than “Solo” defense which is why I believe Defense is as much about Passion and Athleticism as is Leadership. Leonard/ Singleon will not b anchors on Defense. Even if they were, I ask again SO WHAT. We will not win b/c they have close to no offensive skills.
by Just A Little Kid on Jun 25, 2011 11:25 PM CDT up reply actions
Spilt milk and all that,but
Singleton shot 36% from 3pt land. Since he improved while in college,I think it’s reasonable to believe he’ll improve in the pros.
Dallas just won 60 games and the title w/Chandler and Stevenson seeing heavy minutes.
The Spurs did pretty well w/that offensive machine Bruce Bowen.
After the trades Adelman repeatedly played Lee in crunch time over Bud because of defense.
And mentioning Ariza as an example reminds me he won a ring starting for the Lakers :)
Even if a Leonard or a Singleton had zero offensive moves,zero outside shot,a smart coach puts them in motion and tells them to crash offensive boards and when your shooters miss,it will be amazing how many offensive rebounds and putbacks they will get.
I agree about Singleton. He's floor seems to be Bruce Bowen.
The only consolation I can offer is that if Morey and friends had Morris, Singleton and Leonard ranked in the same general area they probably would have taken one of the defensive guys who played wing in college (less risk).
That means I think they really see something special in Morris (they thought about trading up to get him) and clearly think he’s better than Singleton and Leonard.
Since my draftexpress and Youtube scouting service can’t compete with the Rockets’ resources, contacts and experience, I trust they made the right decision.
But that is not how it is really done.
Depending on your system, when a shot is taken someone has to immediately head back up court to get ahead of a potential fast break.
Team defense will win you games. From talking with people around the league I have been told when Battier was here they did not worry about guarding him. If we had the midget guard on the same side as him it made defending so much easier. Last year RA started to turn Shane loose on offense and a few teams started to panic but RA put the clamps back on and we had to move Shane. McHale wants 5 scorers on the floor. They don’t have to be superstars but have to have enough game where you don’t leave them alone.
"Do not panic, all is well" Kevin Bacon in the parade scene in the movie Animal House
by mjdinhouston on Jun 27, 2011 7:42 AM CDT up reply actions
By the way, nice post BD
glad to see you survived draft night. This place had the feel of an Irish pub and you fit right in!
Made me actually laugh out loud at that, well done.
I was the king of that pub on draft night, hah.
My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased
Your reasoning here is puzzling
Ignore for a moment how good a GM Morey is, since that’s subjective.
1. Do you expect the GM to come out and say anything beyond glowing reviews for his players? Have you seen a single GM in any sport come out and talk optimistically about his player?
2. If you want to just talk about players that stayed with the team, Al Jefferson didn’t stay with the Celtics for long, as he got traded for KG. Horry and Cassell left the Rockets a few years after they’re drafted. To ignore how good a player is and simply go by whether or not they’re still on the team… SMH.
3. I honestly don’t know what kind of batting average you expect out of a GM armed with low first rounders and second rounders. But I have personally lived through every single one of Carroll Dawson’s draft. And I have seen all the players the Rockets passed up during Morey’s tenure. I don’t know how you can expect anything more without the benefit of hindsight.
In response
1) If you read the original post,and I’ve seen this elsewhere,Morey’s presser had a strong influence on doubts about the picks. I’m pointing out it’s his job to sell his picks,that shouldn’t be the basis for judging his pick.
2)Unless you’re saying Kevin Martin is KG,I didn’t go into why the picks aren’t w/the team as I tend to ramble on too long as it is. I didn’t intend to go thru every transaction,but point out Morey’s draft picks have a short shelf life w/the team and at some point he should be drafting players who actually stay w/the team as building blocks.(And I would point out Jefferson netting KG got Boston a Title,while Landry netting Kevin Martin hasn’t even gotten the Rockets into the Play-Off, except that would be ….well I am going to mention it,so there! :) And Jefferson so far has netted Minn Utah’s 2012 and Memphis 2013(from Hou).
That’s why the Spurs trade for Leonard is so troubling. They have a track record of picking well,even in late Rds and for them to trade away a player they freakin’ love for Leonard,who wasn’t apparently being considered by Rockets,would cause me to look long and hard at my scouting department.
3)I’m not applying hindsight in my b****ing about THIS Draft. I’m saying before we know what the results are,that IMO they drafted the wrong guy.(I felt same way in 2008,passing on Batum,and in making the Artest trade. I understood the reasoning,I just thought it was wrong. OTOH,there have been guys I thought the Rockets should draft,esp in early Second Rd,who are out of the League,so there’s that.)
The thing about hindsight-and you’ll note I never mentioned whether there were better picks looking back-is that it’s pretty ridiculous to critique someone for not doing what 28 other teams didn’t do. The only valid take on hindsight is in forcing you to look at why you made the decision at the time and are there changes you should therefore make in your decision-making process based on what you think you’ve learned.
Then there’s Thorpe just up and went all gooey over Morris to Feigen,and addressed many of my concerns about him as a SF. Still not sold,but as I said,sure hope I’m wrong.
Good job, pal...
… u definitely put a lot of thought into this. I still don’t like the Morris pick, and there is NO WAY on God’s green earth Flynn can carry Kyle’s jock. Or, for that matter, Dragic’s. At the NBA level, Flynn’s a turnover machine.Trust me, once reality sets in that he’s playing behind those 2, Flynn will poison our locker room.
As for Motiejunas, you already know I like the pick and it’s upside. As for Parsons, I also think you’re spot on; just don’t see him being a long-term fixture here.
Trust me McHale will not let the poison spread
Neither will Lowery who is the de facto captain of this team.
"Do not panic, all is well" Kevin Bacon in the parade scene in the movie Animal House
by mjdinhouston on Jun 27, 2011 7:45 AM CDT up reply actions
Morey
6ers fan here that has seen the twins since high school. I like Markieff slightly more than Marcus, but was shocked to see him go before his “little” brother". That being said, I think Marcus has a very nice career in this league and the main reason is I no-longer buy the “tweener” stuff as a legit characteristic. Basketball players are basketball players. I you can play, you can play and Morey knows who can play as well as anyone else in the league.
Dumping Brad Miller’s contract, I don’t think, was the most important aspect of the second “selection”. They got a kid at 20 that will either be very good, a decent specialist, or a bust. At 20th overall, who really cares? They also got a kid that is an adequte backup, at worst, and can play with Kyle when the situation calls for it.
As a long-time admirer of Morey and the Rockets (outside of Yao chasing guys to the arch and babying McGrady), I felt compelled to ask a friend of mine the other day a disappointing question: “How come Morey is such a great talent evaluator and they still are mediocre?” With his astute scouting and trading, they should be pretty decent even with the career-threatening injury to Ming. I believe they have gotten closer to clearing the “mediocre hurdle” (the worst hurdle in all of pro sports and the toughest to clear in any of the four majors) with these moves.
Thanks for the open-minded and honest evaluation. Takes alot of alot to step back and look at things.
Thanks for chipping in the outsider's perspective. Glad to have it.
I think the answer to the question of “How come Morey is such a great talent evaluator and they are still mediocre?” would be something akin to “Externalities and chess.” Externalities in that you can never really insulate from injuries to your major players that sideline them for 60-90% of a season. Chess from the point of view that every move is calculated and an attempt at improving your chances with every turn. It culminates in a win, hopefully but you have to gamble, you have to take it slow, and you have to chip away at the tree before it falls over.
My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased
From a talent standpoint
We simply lack a game changing talent that most every NBA team carries at least one, without that special talent, there’s no counter balance for the unstoppable player on the other side except for the team to be clicking on full cylinders. We havent been in a position to acquire that special talent, but it’s certainly not for the lack of trying
It’s really a wonder that we arent much much worse the past few years without Yao and T-mac, I believe the Rockets really have played remarkable basketball for the past couple seasons without a superstar, and I think most expert would agree. I mean i gripe about defense and rebounding, but for the most part, it was beautifully executed, high intensity basketball. In the end to win consistently in this league, you need top-shelf talent, you may not need 3 like Miami, but you need at least one
We also suffer from playing just against teams like the Spurs, the Mavs, a really evenly distributed and really heavily gunned conference rather than a top heavy East
I agree with both of you....
Firstly, filling needs with talent is always the way to go. However, that’s pretty tough unless you’re consistently bad and lucky. Unfortunately, I think the only other way is to keep accruing assets and fill needs via free agency and the trade market. Morey is amongst the tthree best talent evaluators in the league, IMO. They have’t been bad which is a byproduct of his effectiveness but also a hindrance. It’s the NBA….fantastic, eh?
As for being in a top-heavy conference, I see your point. It’s cyclical. I started watching basketball seriously with the great Rockets teams that didn’t have Jordan to face. That’s not to say that the championships they won were worth any less or they were any less important. They weren’t. However, we can see the cycle breaking. One divisional foe had the NBA’s best record and another won the whole thing. That being said, they aren’t getting any younger and the Rockets have set themselves up to be two-deep at practically every position. This is where it an be fun, guys. You can see a team grow from respectable, to good, to great with some hard work (by players and management together) and a bit of luck.
You have the infrastructure and the talent. Also, there isn’t a player in the NBA that I’d want to lead me more than Kyle Lowry. No, he’s not the most talented and there are flaws, but the kid doesn’t give an inch. I’m a Philadelphian but that doesn’t make me biassed when it comes to him. He is a tough kid.
I’ll be watching you guys alot as I’m a huge NBA fan and love watching local kids. I hope to keep checking this site. Gonna be a good season (if there is one) and your team is headed in the right direction.
I think the most inspiring post and the best thing for most TDS Posters to take from this was this gem here, and I mean this sincerely.
That being said, they aren’t getting any younger and the Rockets have set themselves up to be two-deep at practically every position. This is where it an be fun, guys. You can see a team grow from respectable, to good, to great with some hard work (by players and management together) and a bit of luck.
Rockets fans need to not panic. We have a Philly fan here who has lived through this and sees his team coming up on the rise as well, you just have to be patient and ride some things out. We’re in good shape and great position.
My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased
One last reason to smile....
No, we don’t know what the new CBA will be, but not many teams have this sorta cap situation and flexibility.
As for my 6ers, I’ll gladly trade rosters with ya, lol.
I think you guys can go a long way if you can flip Brand. He helped send y'all in the right direction this season, right?
The Achilles issue might get pushed back a little and you can bring in something decent for him. You illustrate a point I wish most of my DreamShakers would get though. That point is that we have a talented roster and we need to let it get out there and give it a go as opposed to thinking that we need to offer 40% of the roster for one player.
My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased
Would hate to make this a 6ers blog, lol
COMMA BUT, IF they could simply take back an expiring deal for Brand, I’d personally carry him to the airport.
No offense to Elton, but it’s the practically the same predicament they are in with Iguodala. A guy that needs the ball to be effective and is hindering the development of the youngsters.
The Rockets, on the otherhand, have no such contracts and the nucleus is all getting a decent amount of run (even if Kevin Martin is a bit of a ball-stopper.) I really like the roster you guys have. I wouldn’t deal tthat many guys to secure a player, either, but it’s nice to know you coul deal one guy at every position and still have either Option 1A or, at the very least, an adequate pro to replace what you deal.
Hey, we're open to all teams coming in and talking about our teams, so long as it's not trolling, ya know?
I completely agree with your stance on Brand. If the owners can get a one contract amnesty I could easily see Philly using it on Brand.
For the Rockets, the guys need to get their playing time, with Adelman we didn’t have that, with McHale we’ll get developmental play, which I’m excited for. Developmental time turned up huge for Jrue Holiday and the rest of your young cast. I get excited to watch your Sixers for the simple fact that young, hyper-athletic teams are always entertaining.
My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased
They work hard....
Which is all you can really ask for from the players. With that, they won 41 games in, as aforementioned, a top-heavy conference. The Rockets won 43 in a tougher division and slightly better conference (although that gap is getting smaller.)
I’m hard-pressed to name 5 teams that are set-up better than the Rockets are currently consituted. Amazing, really, considering the unfortunate circumstances with your franchise player.
The upshot with Philly is that the pieces keep developing and keep adding.
They play hard and anything from roughly 5-8 in that playoff picture is something they can easily pick up. If you guys get a decent haul for Iggy you won’t have to miss the playoffs at all and continue climbing up. I gotta tell you a couple years ago with your playoff performance I felt like the Sixers were getting ready to take right off.
As for the Rockets, we had to gamble on the Yao thing, worst case scenario the contract left the books and we kept trying to sort it out. Your assessment means a lot man.
My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased
No problem....
I’ll be following this team/blog this season.
Should be fun and relax, if it isn’t, there’s always league pass. lol.
Feel free to post around and chip in. It's nice having new input.
My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased
"Also, there isnt a player in the nba that I'd want to lead me more than Kyle Lowry"
Has to be the most “un-inspiring” and worst thing for TDS Posters to take…..and I too mean this sincerely.
by GreenRocket on Jun 27, 2011 8:31 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
WTF are you smoking?
What would you consider " game changing talent" then NVP?
by alexander_37 on Jun 26, 2011 12:00 PM CDT up reply actions
I like the post
I just don’t have much faith right now…I guess you could say I’m not drinking the kool-aid. In my opinion, going to be a long time before we are a title contender. I guess i can take solace in the fact that the Rockets have been fun to watch. I need to consider drinking, and not kool aid
by twinkilling0303 on Jun 26, 2011 12:40 AM CDT reply actions
It will probably be a while before the Rockets are contenders
But I think most likely the players we have right now can contend eventually.
Rec'd for confidence and for having the standpoint I'm firming up on.
Best to charge in and see what we’ve got under McHale (Barring a star to Houston deal).
My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased
Idea?
I certainly believe the Rockets are not yet done dealing. There was a blog that seemed this team offered Thabeet and Hill for Bierdins of GSW. The exact deal was unknown for me i’m just thinking if Bierdins can be a dominant presence inside, a double-double guy, the Rockets covet. What I know about Bierdins is that he has injury before and something blocking him to reach his potential.
In my opinion, if this team is low on money, they could offer Ryan Hollins as back up center. I like the way this kid plays. He is a competitor, relentless, gritty, and play his heart out every time he is on the court. This team needs defense and interior Chandler-like presence, that every time a player is under the rim, he will change shots, thinking he would be blocked.
an apple a day, keeps the doctor away. (true!)
This may not be a popular idea
But what about trying to get Cole Aldridge from OKC? He’s 6’11" and was drafted last year and didnt see much playing time after they got Perkins. He did a pretty good job playing the C at Kansas to my remembrance. I actually hoped the Rockets would’ve drafted him last year. Could we possibly move Flynn or Dragic and others to them seeing as how they may be in need of a PG.
"Stability is a factor in teams that win the championship. But if you stabilize on a team that's going to end up short of that, then all you're doing is spinning your wheels in the 45-win range."-----Daryl Morey
by fanoflosingteams on Jun 26, 2011 10:18 AM CDT reply actions
They're not in need of a PG. Westbrook had one pissy flareup in the playoffs but it's to be expected to galvanize the team.
The Thunder got the farthest they’ve ever been and pressure is bound to climb up. They proved why playoff experience is huge to get before you succeed.
As for Aldridge, he’s definitely on the chopping block as it stands, they’re content to run Perk/Ibaka at the 5, or so it seems. But my questions:
1.) Wasn’t Aldridge in the D-League with Thabeet and we knock Thabeet for it?
2.) Why can’t we just try out what we have in Thabeet, Hill, and Motiejunas at the 5?
A lot of people gripe about piddlin’ around with assets and what not, why collect more when we haven’t even trotted out our current group to see what there is? Unless a Josh Smith materializes I say we march to war as we stand currently.
My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased
After we drafted Morris I'm not sure we would go for Josh Smith
Unless we can get Dwight Howard or another proven star, I’d say don’t do anything.
I think it would be a move where you send out Morris, Budinger, Scola, some draft picks, and maybe a PG
to return Smith, slot him at the 3, trot out a lineup of:
Lowry/Flynn/Dragic (Whichever PG you don’t send them)
Martin/Lee
Smith/Williams/Parsons
Patterson/Hill/Hayes
Thabeet/Motiejunas
I think this goes a long way for keeping depth and trying to offer some forms of savings/cheap talent for Atlanta. We’d have to take back and eat the Marvin Williams contract and send them a TPE but I think that we come out of it with 12-13 players still on our roster or so, comes out relatively flush, speeds up our rebuild, etc…
My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased
Now that we have Motiejunas
That trade suddenly seems way less shitty, not sure why. Maybe it’s the fact that we would be guaranteed not to slot Hayes at center.
I actually like that, it would give Hayes more playing time (I just like Chuck Hayes, despite the fact that he’s a terrible 5) and it would give all of our deserving PGs some playing time. I also think that Marvin Williams is better than a lot of people make him out to be. His contract sucks, but we do have money, and he wouldn’t go unused.
i don't think Atlanta makes that trade
especially if it means adding Scola’s longer contract.
probably have to send more young, cheap talent. Patterson, Bud, Thabeet, Flynn, TWill, and Battier’s trade exception for Josh Smith and Marvin Williams actually works on espn’s trade machine.
by Moochie's Fro on Jun 26, 2011 3:29 PM CDT up reply actions
you keep starting Thabeet...
in that case we’re always fucked
by SpaceCityFan on Jun 26, 2011 8:51 PM CDT up reply actions
Not opening this can of worms again.
Then again if I recall correctly you’re hard up for Nene so your opinion gets a pound or six of salt before it goes down.
My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased
You're right,
us getting Nene would probably be worse than starting Thabeet
by SpaceCityFan on Jun 27, 2011 5:25 AM CDT up reply actions
i hope that was sarcasm
you don’t Thabeet is better than Nene, do you?
it looks like GS is over-valuing Biedrins, now that Morey’s interested. seriously, what the hell are the Rockets going to do about the C position? no way Rockets out-bid Dallas for Chandler or Memphis for Gasol after the surprising runs those teams had. this is not looking good.
Delambert? i really don’t see any other reasonable options at this point.
by Moochie's Fro on Jun 27, 2011 8:38 PM CDT up reply actions
I think that someone will outbid the Grizzlies
for Gasol, it’s just a matter of who. They owe 30 mil next year to Gay and Randolph alone, they aren’t in a good position to match the highest bidder if someone in a better salary situation decides they really want him.
by Bobbythegreat on Jun 27, 2011 8:44 PM CDT up reply actions
Excellent point...
but I bet the Griz would prefer to trade Rudy Gay for cap room, rather than let Gasol go.
It’s all Michael Jordan’s fault. If he hasn’t reneged on the Rockets’ trade for Tyson Chandler last year or traded up for Bismack Biyombo in this year’s draft, we wouldn’t have to consider the possibility of way over-paying Marc Gasol or Sam Dalembert.
by Moochie's Fro on Jun 27, 2011 9:35 PM CDT up reply actions
I agree
that if they were smart they would trade Rudy Gay rather than losing Gasol, but they have been coming out lately saying that they have no intention on trading him. Of course that could just be posturing but if they are serious, then someone else will end up with Gasol.
by Bobbythegreat on Jun 27, 2011 11:07 PM CDT up reply actions
if Nene is a FA, why are we even talking about anybody else?
is Nene restricted or unrestricted? if he’s an unrestricted FA, he’s got to be Morey’s #1 target (or #1b if Gasol is a possibility, which I don’t think he is). the Rockets will surely have to overpay, but i like him better than all the other stiffs in discussion for sure.
by Moochie's Fro on Jun 27, 2011 11:49 PM CDT up reply actions
though Nene reminds me just a little too much of Kelvin Kato
but never mind that.
by Moochie's Fro on Jun 27, 2011 11:51 PM CDT up reply actions
Let's step back and look at this from a team needs standpoint.
The Rockets, unless I missed something for the last two years, have no problem scoring the ball? Yes or no?
I answered yes, so this would then lead to the question “What do the Rockets need from the center position?” Defense or offense?
I answered defense, so let’s ask “What does a center do defensively?”
I answered rebound and block shots. Let’s look at Nene’s career PPG/RPG/BPG and look at his stats from last year, and lastly a composite of all his career years.
Average: 12.3/6.9/.9
10-11: 14.5/7.6/1.0
Best: 14.6 (2008/7.8 (2008)/1.3 (2008)
Now let’s compare this guy you want to fling money at, ridiculous money at, to Chuck Hayes.
Average: 4.4/5.8/.4
10-11: 7.9/8.1/.7
Best: 7.9/8.1/.7
No shocker there that Chuck’s best year was his year as a starter. Now, let’s compare Nene’s best year with that of the Chuckwagon’s best year. Keep in mind there is a 2 year discrepancy in these two.
Nene: 15/8/1 (Rounded)
Chuck: 10/8/1 (Rounded again)
So you want to fling 10-15 million dollars a year for 5 more points per game. This astounds me. We need defense and rebounding and people are going nuts for a guy who rebounds at an alarmingly low rate for a starting center of his size, does not intimidate shots, and puts up a measly 5 points more per game than Chuck Hayes does. If the argument is “point differential wins games” then I must rebut with “Only about 42-43 of them, apparently.”
The Rockets are taking calculated risks with guys like Biedrins and Thabeet who have more defense than offense. Offense is not an issue for this Rockets team, rebounding and shot blocking is. Chuck might not be a shotblocker and paint intimidator but neither is Nene. I guess that .3 block discrepancy accounts for the fact that Nene probably jumps higher than Chuck. Chuck just had a career year and can probably command at most 4 million or so per year holding down a center spot. Is Nene worth three times as much for five points a game? If so, I would GLADLY enter the NBA, shoot a couple threes a game to get around 5 points per game and collect an 8 million dollar paycheck.
Keep in mind when people ask if Biedrins is worth 9 million, he’s worth 9 million to fix some of our team’s problems, not because paying him makes it look like we’re proactive.
My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased
I cocked that up.
Chuck rounded comparison is 8 points, discrepancy of 7 points a game, I might need to shoot a couple more threes to collect my 8 million.
My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased
I was more/less talking about
their back-up PG spot and as far as what we have already, Im all for giving Thabeet an actual chance. What Im saying is IF the Rockets want to make a move for a C why not go for someone who was just drafted then became almost obsolete once they got Perkins and found what they have in Ibaka? But now as Im writing this I think OKC has more of a problem at the 2 spot than they do at the PG. Harden should be starting next season, but I think that leaves a hole at the back-up 2 spot.
"Stability is a factor in teams that win the championship. But if you stabilize on a team that's going to end up short of that, then all you're doing is spinning your wheels in the 45-win range."-----Daryl Morey
by fanoflosingteams on Jun 26, 2011 10:47 AM CDT up reply actions
I just get the feel that barring a Dwight Howard trade we're determined to see what we have at the 5 and work with it.
There’s only so much we can keep picking up random bits before we have to try them out. We’re theory crafting as it stands but Morey did say last year they want to take a good long evaluative look at what Thabeet offers. At the presser McHale mentioned he has worked with Jordan Hill, Hasheem Thabeet, AND Patrick Patterson. I have hope on this and I don’t think we need to crowd the center more than it currently is unless you get a guy who is definitively going to secure that starting spot.
In short, I guess we have enough dice rolling that you don’t throw another one out there, you look for the guaranteed piece at this point.
My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased
by BD34 on Jun 26, 2011 10:50 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
They don't need a PG.
They already have three. Westbrook, Maynor, and Robinson. I don’t think they need 4 PGs.
I thought they were shopping Robinson
but I think Westbrook would be better suited at the 2 spot, but that could cause problems seeing as how Hardens play has stepped up and he may be seein the starting rotation next season
"Stability is a factor in teams that win the championship. But if you stabilize on a team that's going to end up short of that, then all you're doing is spinning your wheels in the 45-win range."-----Daryl Morey
by fanoflosingteams on Jun 26, 2011 10:55 AM CDT up reply actions
Westbrook
can’t shoot well enough and is a little too small to be a SG, and he isn’t a real PG, where do you put him?
by Bobbythegreat on Jun 26, 2011 11:48 AM CDT up reply actions
all this Westbrook hating is ridiculous
he’s just a kid, hyper-talented, and best buds with Durant… HUGE ceiling. potential all-NBA talent. giving up on 22 year old PGs with his abilities wouldn’t be prudent, and Presti is no dummy.
by Moochie's Fro on Jun 26, 2011 3:33 PM CDT up reply actions
It isn't hating
to point out that he would be really small to be a SG and if you were slot him at that spot anyway he would be the worst shooting starting SG in the NBA. It is also not hating to point out that the reigning turnover king isn’t the best when it comes to handling the ball and running an offense.
by Bobbythegreat on Jun 26, 2011 3:41 PM CDT up reply actions
impatience then?
Westbrook is 22 years old and a super talent. while there are some arguments about whether he can play Robin to Durant’s Batman, i think a little patience is in order, to see if his decision making at the point improves.
by Moochie's Fro on Jun 26, 2011 4:45 PM CDT up reply actions
When he either
gets taller or drastically improves his shot I will say he can be a SG in the NBA. If he learns to make better decisions with the ball and stops turning the ball over so much, I will say that he can be a top PG in the NBA. However, until some of these things happen, he will just be a really talented player who doesn’t really have a position and he will continue to be a liability to his team to some degree.
by Bobbythegreat on Jun 26, 2011 4:49 PM CDT up reply actions
i think Westbrook is a point
i generally don’t like “combo guards,” which generally means too short to defend 2Gs or doesn’t facilitate enough to play point (e.g., Monta Ellis, Ben Gordon, Stephon Marburry, Stevie Franchise, etc). but sometimes you have a guy talented enough to transcend the label (same with tweener Fs)… kind of like Derrick Rose did this year (aided by an improved J). i guess i just think Westbrook has the potential to be the same type of player.
if Westbrook can figure out how to better balance getting his and getting his teammates involved (same could be said of Rose… if he had any teammates who could score), then that’s a top-10 player. if decision-making didn’t improve with age, we’d all be in trouble.
by Moochie's Fro on Jun 26, 2011 5:19 PM CDT up reply actions
Considering Westbrook has almost identical stats as MVP Derrick Rose
and Derrick Rose does not play with another superstar and has less options to consider on passing. You have to wonder if the same situation wouldnt have happened to Derrick Rose, if he had played with a D-wade or Durant, and if so, do you by association think of Derrick Rose less as a point guard
because there is a distinction between Tony Parker, Derrick Rose and Russell Westbrook, who disrupts the offense so much, that other option become open to compare to guys like a Jason Kidd, Chris Paul, and Deron Williams, who truly facilitates the offense by directing plays and creating opportunities via vision
I like our roster.
Would I welcome a trade that made it better? Of course, but i’m not holding my breath. I think barring a slow November like the last season, (might not be an issue with the lockout), we can compete with the West. As was mentioned earlier here, the other guys are getting older, a shotgun start to the season along with the uncertainty the lockout brings could impact them badly. I think many of the 1st tier teams could have injury issues making this a less steep hill to climb. 50-60 win seasons might not be as plentiful with all the distractions.
For now, I am content to watch the CBA play out and see where we are then. My thinking is we will look better when the new rules are worked out.
Our group of overachievers can excel in the regular season when hustle and heart are often in short supply.
But come playoff time, when the hustle/heart gap narrows we just don’t have enough talent in the paint to get out of the first round. It would be a similar situation to the what happened to the Spurs this year (good regular season record, but no chance in the playoffs).
Chuck/Scola/Patterson vs. Bynum/Gasol/Odom (not even close)
Chuck/Scola/Patterson vs. Nowitzki/Chandler/Haywood (not even close)
Chuck/Scola/Patterson vs. Perkins/Ibaka/Collison (Too much rebounding and paint protection)
Chuck/Scola/Patterson vs. Nene/Martin/Birdman (Too much rebounding and paint protection)
Chuck/Scola/Patterson vs. Camby/Aldridge (We can probably match this)
Chuck/Scola/Patterson vs. Okafor/West/Landry (We can probably match this)
About This Trade...
we only really gave up a 2013 #18-23 pick in a regular draft, this isn ’t next years 20 deep draft with the regular 10 good guys that go in the lottery +6 guys who stayed in. Think of it like this, we traded Brad Miller (undrafted) a #23 pick, a #19 pick for a #6 overall #20. thats pretty decent to be perfectly honest. I really want us to pick up more top 20 picks in next years draft.
As to that #6...
“… the trade hit a snag on Friday when the Rockets’ team doctors raised issues with Flynn’s hip injury, league sources told Yahoo! Sport.
To keep the deal from falling apart, Minnesota sent a 2012 second-round pick to the Rockets, league sources said. The issues wouldn’t have kept Flynn off the court, but did raise some concerns for the long-term. Whether Minnesota had been forthcoming with the information prior to the trade is unclear.
Until Flynn passed his physical on Friday, several NBA trades were held up in the league office. Minnesota had traded the 23rd pick to Chicago for the 28th pick, and immediately made a deal with Miami to move No. 28 for the Heat’s spot at No. 31. The T’wolves then sent No. 31 to the Nets for a future second-round pick and cash. Everything had to be put on hold until Minnesota further compensated Houston with the draft pick, and the Rockets agreed to clear Flynn on the physical.”
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=aw-wojnarowski_jonny_flynn_trade_problem_062511
Well,you can kiss Flynn’s trade potential good-bye.
And for evil genius theories,do you really think Morey would risk Motie just to get a future Second.
My guess,Flynn has an arthritic hip that’s very worrisome to Hou doctors.
I hope his contract is insured.
damn that sucks, but he is young so maybe he’ll be ok. Here’s to hoping.
I still prefer
a young gimpy Flynn as a third string PG as opposed to Brad Miller even being on the roster at all.
by Bobbythegreat on Jun 26, 2011 12:40 PM CDT up reply actions
So after a little research.....
im slightly more worried whole also slightly less worried. Flynn is still relevantly fresh of the surgery, it took me almost 2 years before i felt like my shoulder was back to where it was when i injured it, so hes still kind of in the recovery time. they did a bone shave to prevent future tears. And the dude who did it was THE GUY to do it, like the best in the country. Lets be honest we have better doctors in Houston than Minny so i am optimistic because of that. HOWEVER this is a relevantly new surgery, especially in the US so recovery stats aren’t really available. all i’m saying is it seems like it will depend on Flynn whether he has the heart to take his recovery into his own hands.
I doubt Flynn was in Rocket plans
He was more like Cook,Jeffries,players Morey had to take to get what he wanted.(And at risk of starting a flame war,I consider Thabeet in that category.) If they actually contribute then it’s a bonus.
I wish the young man the best of luck w/his recovery,his health and his career.
But,honestly I saw too much bad basketball from him last yr to want him on my team. And even if it was just a bad situation in Minn and he’s just lost his confidence,I still don’t want the Rockets to go forward w/2 back-up PGs who are very shaky mentally.
I don't think
it’s crazy to put Thabeet in the category of players we had to take to make a deal. I think it would have still been a winner if we had traded 2 months of Battier for only the 1st round draft pick, if Thabeet ends up being even serviceable it is an absolute home run. That said, most likely he will most likely not ever be anything at all, but it was still a good trade..
by Bobbythegreat on Jun 26, 2011 1:38 PM CDT up reply actions
Big difference between Flynn and Cook/Jeffries.
Flynn has talent.
I think we’re going to give him a shot to win the backup job.
"Hakeem couldn't kick your ass cuz you were too
close kissin his!"- Sir Charles to Kenny Smith.
by bone31crusher on Jun 26, 2011 3:33 PM CDT up reply actions
Rockets have offered Thabeet and Hill for Biedrins.
However, the Warriors do not want to give him up.
I think the only way we get him is if we offer Patterson and Hill.
The funny thing is that Warriors fans would take Thabeet for Biedrins straight up. They really, really do not want him.
"Hakeem couldn't kick your ass cuz you were too
close kissin his!"- Sir Charles to Kenny Smith.
what about Andrew Bogut?
are the Bucks no longer looking to trade Bogut?
i’d give up Patterson, Hill, Thabeet, and a couple future #1s for Bogut. not sure that’s enough for Milwaukee. may have to take back an unhappy Stephen Jackson, which i wouldn’t actually mind too much. maybe give me some Mad Max flash backs.
by Moochie's Fro on Jun 26, 2011 3:50 PM CDT up reply actions
let me take this comment back.. just realized there's no chance in hell it happens
i like Hill/Thabeet for Biedrins. seems to make too much sense for both sides not to happen… which probably means it won’t.
by Moochie's Fro on Jun 26, 2011 4:24 PM CDT up reply actions
I also like the hill/thabeet trade idea, maybe throw in a 2nd rounder
which we just got one from minny. but i kinda am curious what thabeet had when he gets some minutes. we are seeing darko and kwame contribute a little.. but i don’t see Bogut even being worth that, PPat, hill Thabeet and 2012 firsts? thats a lot of lottery players.
Bogut is a top-5 C
averages a solid double-double and is among the league leaders in blocks. true Centers are tough to find. it’s an impossibly steep decline in talent after the top 5 or so.
solid PFs, on the other hand, seem to grow on trees. that’s why the Rockets seem to add another new one every year.
by Moochie's Fro on Jun 26, 2011 4:56 PM CDT up reply actions
on Thabeet
specifically because he was a junior coming out of college and it really took him all 3 years to adjust to the college game playing big minutes. why does everyone expect for him to adapt to it immediately . i say in give him 20 minutes a game for 25 games then we write him off, we have nothing to lose, even losing games is a plus because it improves out lottery odds.
i'm optimistic McHale can develop Thabeet and Hill
bigs usually take time to develop. the Rockets probably have one of the best to help such development. my only problem is that Thabeet seems soft—i don’t know if a young big can develop that sort of toughness.
by Moochie's Fro on Jun 26, 2011 5:02 PM CDT up reply actions
They favor Hill/Thabeet as being expirings next summer more than anything.
Welcome to Houston Kevin McHale. Just remember "It was Minnesota" is no longer an excuse.
Thabeet will not play. Ever
It’s funny that people think he can go in and and play 25 minutes a game. Flynn might play, but he isn’t in the long term plans at all. Don Mont won’t even be here until after next year at the earliest, so that leaves us with no actual center. At all
I see myself as an entertainer and an Icon. Oh and C finnegan can go fuck himself
by AllenOU on Jun 26, 2011 8:27 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
Of course,
you know better than Kevin McHale or Daryl Morey surrounding Thabeet’s situation.
Love how you are so damn certain he’s not ever going to play.
If you have no patience, fine, but don’t make absurd assumptions based off of your biased hatred for Thabeet.
"Hakeem couldn't kick your ass cuz you were too
close kissin his!"- Sir Charles to Kenny Smith.
by bone31crusher on Jun 27, 2011 12:14 AM CDT up reply actions
As for Donut, he will be on the roster this season.
There was supposedly an issue with his buyout, but there’s not anymore.
And he’s not a center. Chase Budinger is more of a center than Donut is at this point.
"Hakeem couldn't kick your ass cuz you were too
close kissin his!"- Sir Charles to Kenny Smith.
by bone31crusher on Jun 27, 2011 12:16 AM CDT up reply actions
DM seems to think he is....
he put on some weight and just looks bigger. you should watch the post draft interview, he looks totally jacked, very dif. from the Euro league scouting video.
I'll believe it when I see it on the court.
"Hakeem couldn't kick your ass cuz you were too
close kissin his!"- Sir Charles to Kenny Smith.
by bone31crusher on Jun 27, 2011 3:36 PM CDT up reply actions
not saying he is as bad a david anderson.
just saying he wasnt a 5 either at the time.. D-mo clearly has the ability to eventually be a 5 but currently until I see him prove it he is more of a 4.
at the moment he is channing frye at half the price
The content of the text above is provided for information purposes only. No claim is made as to the accuracy or authenticity of the content. The troll does not accept any liability to any person for the information or advice (or the use of such information or advice) which is provided in the text above.
Is there an award on his site....
for premature evaluations? We can name it after myself if we change just a few letters.
I’m certain, sir, you have never seen Donataus play. I’ve only seen a few games but to say someone cannot play or won’t be here in a certain amount of time for no other reason than you didn’t like the pick (perhaps you wanted less risk and more reward at #20 in a widely-regarded poor draft.) Perhaps you’d prefer a safe option so you could bitch about that UNLESS, of course, Dontaus turns into a player at which time you can call everyone a moron except for yourself for being so ignorant not to see the talent that you admittedly never claimed to see.
It was they type of move that makes teams relevant outside of losing 60 games and hitting the lottery. Rather than ignorantly look at draft picks like your Fran Franschilla (a guy who a year ago commended Donataus for his “confidence’” to who has recently discussed his “arrogance”) how about you view it as drafting a kid at a low-cost? Perhaps you’re more comfortable with characterizing everything. You have an undersized 1, an average-sized 2, and oversized 3, an undersized 4 and “no actual center” which, unfortunately means we can’t complain about him being too big, too small or too perfect.
I’ve read alot of posts on various boards. This may have been the most ignorant and presumptive of everything I’ve ever read. If you don’t like the pick(s), state your reasons. There are reasons to state without having to fabricate or imagine stuff.
by Nutsy1122 on Jun 27, 2011 2:52 AM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
I... I love you...
So much…
My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased
thabeet is just terrible. He wont and shouldnt play
and Ill be surprised if donut is on the roster, much less be a contributing factor
I see myself as an entertainer and an Icon. Oh and C finnegan can go fuck himself
How about we give him a chance
to prove you right? It’s not like some awesome center is going to just fall in our laps. I don’t mind having Thabeet and “donut” splitting time at center, and I don’t understand why you would either, we are a rebuilding team after all.
by Bobbythegreat on Jun 27, 2011 11:57 AM CDT up reply actions
This is a great point
Might as well play him to prove I’m right. But no one wants me to be wrong more than myself. I usually am wrong, ask any woman I’ve ever dated. But I’m pretty sure I’m spot on in this situation
I see myself as an entertainer and an Icon. Oh and C finnegan can go fuck himself
by AllenOU on Jun 27, 2011 1:04 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
How are you so sure that you are spot on?
You haven’t even seen him play yet.
"Hakeem couldn't kick your ass cuz you were too
close kissin his!"- Sir Charles to Kenny Smith.
by bone31crusher on Jun 27, 2011 3:40 PM CDT up reply actions
So we're gonna go 1 deep at Center with Chuck Hayes manning the middle?
If you’re going to knock Thabeet you by logic have to concede that Motiejunas will see floor time if Thabeet won’t. Unless Chuck Hayes can log 3,936 minutes this season, which while I’m sure he’s an iron man, he’s not a god.
Also, Thabeet’s terrible? His 25 MPG last season must have proven you right. Oh, he didn’t play more than a minute on the Rockets? Got ya.
My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased
Wow. Ok
Thabeet didnt play because HE IS AWFUL. You just said it yourself. He didn’t get playing time on a crappy team because he sucks. The guy was the 2nd pick. SECOND!!!!! Couldn’t even be a backup in Memphis.
And no I won’t concede donut will see floor time, because he won’t be on the roster next year. If he is, I doubt he plays more than 8 minutes a game. The guy isn’t ready for the NBA.
I see myself as an entertainer and an Icon. Oh and C finnegan can go fuck himself
by AllenOU on Jun 27, 2011 1:02 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Can you give me the exact quote that I said He didn't get playing time on a crappy team because he sucks?
I’m very interested in where I made this comment because I don’t usually have a vocabulary like that. I’m better spoken than that.
As for Moti, again, you dismiss Thabeet, write of Moti, and we’re left with who at center? Just Chuck? I can’t believe the front office would be so short-sighted as to head into the season with one center on the roster.
My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased
Of course not
They must plan on adding another center through free agency, at least I would hope so
“Also, Thabeet’s terrible? His 25 MPG last season must have proven you right. Oh, he didn’t play more than a minute on the Rockets? Got ya.”
To me, this says said player is awful, but Mayr teams keep great talent on the bench and just never play them
I see myself as an entertainer and an Icon. Oh and C finnegan can go fuck himself
by AllenOU on Jun 27, 2011 1:40 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
To me it only says
that Adleman didn’t want to play him, and that is why he is gone.
by Bobbythegreat on Jun 27, 2011 1:44 PM CDT up reply actions
Exactly
And why didn’t he want to play him…. Because he isn’t any good. If he could help us win, adleman would have played him. Simple
I see myself as an entertainer and an Icon. Oh and C finnegan can go fuck himself
by AllenOU on Jun 27, 2011 2:20 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
He didn't want to play him
because he was angry that Morey traded away Battier. He also didn’t want to play TWill or Dragic, thanks to a fortunate injury we got to see a little bit of the dragon. He also didn’t want to play Buddinger but had no choice once Morey flipped Battier. If Adleman wanted to do what was good for the team we would have gotten a look at Thabeet and others late last year and we would have a better idea of where we stand now. He was a child about it, so now we don’t know. You should be the most angry about it, if Adleman had done the right thing and played Thabeet, even after the games didn’t matter anymore, you might have that “proof” that he won’t ever amount to anything that your argument currently lacks.
by Bobbythegreat on Jun 27, 2011 2:28 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Because we didn't see a burst in winning in the second half only after Morey forced Rick to play younger guys.
Chuck was still there at Center so he ran him hard. We’ve discussed this at length on this board that Adelman is notoriously poor about playing young guys he isn’t forced to play.
There’s a reason Adelman gets fired every time a team goes to rebuild with young players. Thabeet’s lack of playing time has more to do with Rick than Hasheem.
My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased
Adelman plays who he knows better
He is an old man who was too stuck in his ways to do different things.
Me against the world is a mismatch in my favor.
Adelman is notoriously known for not playing young guys without having a full off-season to evaluate them.
Bud played his rookie year because Adelman had the whole off-season with him.
T-Will and Thabeet never played because they never had an off-season with Rick.
"Hakeem couldn't kick your ass cuz you were too
close kissin his!"- Sir Charles to Kenny Smith.
by bone31crusher on Jun 27, 2011 3:42 PM CDT up reply actions
He should never have been the 2nd pick in the draft.
Jesus Christ, will you ever accept that…..
"Hakeem couldn't kick your ass cuz you were too
close kissin his!"- Sir Charles to Kenny Smith.
by bone31crusher on Jun 27, 2011 3:41 PM CDT up reply actions
"Thabeet is just terrible."
You have any evidence to back up this statement besides saying, “He was the 2nd pick in the draft and played in the D-League.”?
All you say is “Thabeet sucks” and “Thabeet is terrible,” yet you have NEVER seen him play. I watched EVERY game when he played in the D-League, and he played well.
You keep on saying these things without evidence, peole are going to view you as ignorant.
"Hakeem couldn't kick your ass cuz you were too
close kissin his!"- Sir Charles to Kenny Smith.
by bone31crusher on Jun 27, 2011 3:40 PM CDT up reply actions
Jocking a player because he played well in the D League
is like telling a midget he looks like he grew an inch….
Not saying this is the case, but not showcasing players is prevelant because of thier ability or lack of it. As far out and crazy as that sounds, there’s just as much an argument for that than there is for him being the solutions to the complex C problem.
Welcome to Houston Kevin McHale. Just remember "It was Minnesota" is no longer an excuse.
Playing well in the D-League is better than playing poorly.
Allen is saying Thabeet sucks just because he was a #2 pick that went to the D-League.
I understand what you’re saying, but anything positive from Thabeet is good right now.
I don’t think anyone but a few people on this board realize how big of a project he is.
"Hakeem couldn't kick your ass cuz you were too
close kissin his!"- Sir Charles to Kenny Smith.
by bone31crusher on Jun 27, 2011 4:01 PM CDT up reply actions
Quit wasting your breathe on this subject with jake
He will never change the way he thinks even if Thabeet came in and played well. If guys would stop arguing with jake about Thabeet so much half of the comments would not exist.
Me against the world is a mismatch in my favor.
the most realistic option at Center, as it currently stands, is probably Jordan Hill.
Don’t give up on Jordan Hill just because Adelman did.
let’s say Hill spends a week or two learning footwork from Hakeem. and McHale teaches him a post move or two. and after a season and half with Chuck wagon, some of Chuck’s toughness rubs off. well, that might be a pretty reasonable starter in the middle.
by Moochie's Fro on Jun 27, 2011 8:49 PM CDT up reply actions
Bravo.
"Hakeem couldn't kick your ass cuz you were too
close kissin his!"- Sir Charles to Kenny Smith.
by bone31crusher on Jun 27, 2011 3:56 PM CDT up reply actions
great article!
but srsly, why doesnt hakeem help out the rockets big men a little more by tutoring them every now and then? (or does he)
Olajuwon offers workout sessions by appointment upon request.
My beingadick-butnotbeinganannoyingdick skills, they're impressive.
-TCWIR paraphrased

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