Rockets fans in Houston are pathetic.
by batman713 on Jan 27, 2012 9:11 AM CST
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PrintWhy am I saying this? Because this is officially a fact. How can we have a team playing very well right now and in the 4th largest city in the US, but have the second worst attendance in the NBA? Teams like the Hornets, Nets, Kings, and Wizards. These are terrible teams. We are second only to the Pistons. I sure would like to hear theories on this rubbish. I would not be surprised if the team got moved to another city because this city does not deserve to have a basketball team. The fans don't care unless we rip 22 wins in a row. And even then they will say it's a "fluke". Can someone explain this to me?
No cursing in title. No pirated material, such as links to online game streams. Do not cut/paste entire sections of content from other websites. Thanks.
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wow that is kinda pathetic
Go Rockets!
"Our players knew we were going to win so kinda let up on defense." Kevin Mchale
"Screw Stern!" Me
Boom
roasted.
Quick question though, how much does a rockets game cost, in comparison to the rest of the league?
flayed ones stealth mode
"Fleshling! Do not shoot! For I am one of you fleshy things. It is I. Your Uncle Stan. Can't you tell by the long strips of fleshy substances covered in bodily fluids? Trust me! I have fleeeeeeeeesh."
They are middle of the pack in tickets.
The best seats are pretty expensive but upper deck tickets last might against the Wiz were like $20.
They have some great packages too. Come on Houston get out there and support your team! Rock the roof!
We know players should be self motivated, blah, blah, blah but it really helps when the 4th quarter rolls around and the crowd gets into it. It lifts them up and helps them find the extra they need to get it done.
"Do not panic, all is well" Kevin Bacon in the parade scene in the movie Animal House
by mjdinhouston on Jan 28, 2012 8:58 AM CST up reply actions
IM A ROCKETS SEASON TICKET HOLDER
THA BEST ROCKETS FAN IS RIGHT HERE BROS>>>>>>>>>MitMil22
////i bleed tha red\\\\
put a D*ck in ur ear and F*ck wat u hurd
by mitmil22 on Jan 27, 2012 9:30 AM CST reply actions 6 recs
Someone's gonna come in and say "it's a small sample size this season and people are mad at the lockout."
But I won’t because I’m not gonna lie to myself. The list is basically a descending order of star power with the few flukes being incredible basketball cities (Oakland, Portland, etc…). The fact of the matter is the Rockets lag behing teams like the Wizards (doing worse than them) because these franchises actually have hope for the future on their team, young talent, flashy performances. The Rockets steadily win but have no marketable star and are going to go all in on a failed free agency policy, this team’s poor attendance is on Alexander’s unwillingness to realize you can still sell AND suck if you have an exciting team or a young star who gives your franchise hope.
Maireann croí éadrom i bhfad.
by BD34 on Jan 27, 2012 9:35 AM CST reply actions 4 recs
I was thinking along these exact same lines.
Just wanted to see if someone other than you would say it.
I hate david stern!
I'll agree
So now someone else has said it too.
Was too far to huck a beer at a Stro’s player as per bone’s request. Jess (girlfriend) said I was too far, I said challenge accepted, a security guard said guess again.-BD34
That is the reason I don't go to Battle Red Blog. I would be too rational and guys would flag my posts as spam.-batman713
Yeah, that’s why after getting Yao Ming, the number 1 pick in the NBA draft, the Rockets had the third worst attendence in the NBA……
by VBG on Jan 27, 2012 10:50 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Sup parsing out what you want!
Excitement counts too. Only thing close to a high flyer we’ve had was Williams and he’s been banished. You need to put asses in the seats with a guy who will make people get up off their asses. We got Yao Ming, a modest and methodical big man with Van Gundy coaching grind it out ball. Forgive fans if they’re not beating down the door to watch the ball get lobbed into Yao while 20 seconds burns off the shot clock of him positioning himself for a jumper.
Excitement sells.
Maireann croí éadrom i bhfad.
Steve Francis wasn't exciting? Cat Mobley wasn't? The novelty of a 7'6" center wasn't exciting?
Because I remember 2002 pretty well, and the city was excited. That apparently didn’t translate into actual ticket sales.
And that team just barely missed the playoffs that year, too. The next year they made it. It was a young “exciting” team that couldn’t get peeps in the building.
And when they traded for T-Mac (one of the most exciting players in the league at that point), they were still in the bottom 10.
Something else explains this. “Star power” and “excitement” aren’t doing it. If they were, we would see significant changes in attendance when the Rockets had “exciting” rookies or “exciting” young teams or got into the playoffs or had 50+ win teams. But we don’t. Attendance is always consistently bad.
I’d say it’s the pricing. The team is able to sell plenty of season tickets to a combination of a small cadre of dedicated fans and a vast corporate clientele. They buy the really expensive seats and the luxury suites, and that makes them the real money. For whatever reason, the Rockets believe that keeping prices very high and feeding off of that smaller market (with a higher willingness to pay) is more profitable than lowering prices into Trailblazers range and possibly selling out every now and then.
Just to speak from personal experience
when I go to a game I have to drive a bit, so either before or after the game I have to stop and eat something. If it’s a restaurant that’s more money for me, or I could do the cheap drive thru thing. Then I get to the Toyota Center and I have to park which costs money. Not counting the gas it takes to get there. Every game I’ve been to I’ve either been in the cheap seats (the first few times I went), but ever since then I’ve gone because of the ticket deals from this site. I think the tickets I get are about 35 or 40 bucks and they are around where the Red Rowdies are. I’d like to get some better seats at some point, but they need to be cheaper. Another thing about going to games, the atmosphere mostly sucks. Other than the Rowdies (who do get annoying), nobody is making any noise or really treating it like an event. They just sit in their seats and yell when there’s a dunk. It’s a lot like the crowds at a Cowboys game, they just sit there and eat or drink until a touchdown is scored. Sorry for my ramblings, but to sum up…yes i’d like cheaper tickets.
by twinkilling0303 on Jan 27, 2012 12:28 PM CST up reply actions
Trailblazers tickets aren't terribly high, but they aren't cheap.
And you can’t get them anyway.
Also, one sport town (well two with Timbers I guess).
"Each in turn... volunteered his suggestions, his invaluable suggestions."
That's why I mentioned them.
The Rockets probably don’t need to drop the prices to T-Wolves level to get a larger crowd, but if they go to around the average price, maybe they can bring in more people (and make more money).
But, you know, they have a team worth over $400 million, and I don’t, so they probably know how to run the business better than I do.
Based off the last game I went to...
I would have to agree. I attended the Bucks game on Wednesday and sat in front row right by Rockets bench (ahh!!), and it was pretty filled up in the lower bowl, almost barren in the top bowl.
Damn it would seem we have a few young stars.
What we have are petulant fans. The Wizards have done nothing but been a front office disaster for years. No shit if we were that bad we would have had Wall too but we actually try to win.
First year without Yao and the fans show their fair weather mindedness. We don’t need star power, we are growing our own stars. True fans don’t wait for a "star player. They support their teams through thick and thin.
GO ask the Red Sox how they did so well at the nation’s smallest ball park but yet have sold it out for decades. They did not always have the big salaries they do now. They did not always have huge stars. The stars they had they grew. Sure its a different game but the principle is the same.
Get off your lames asses and get down to TC and cheer your Rockets on.
"Do not panic, all is well" Kevin Bacon in the parade scene in the movie Animal House
by mjdinhouston on Jan 28, 2012 9:05 AM CST up reply actions
I think we agree, I'm kind of confused but if I may offer some corrections:
1.) We have Lowry, who has developed into someone who should be acknowledged as a star, I agree there, but other than him, who is not really all that marketable, we got nothing.
2.) “True fans” don’t generate business revenue. It’s the dabbler or the casual fan seeking to be entertained and willing to drop the money on it. “True fans” actually constitute a very small portion of revenue in most major sports.
3.) Agree on the fair-weather nature of fans of the Rockets.
4.) I think the opinion posted in this thread somewhere is dead on. Houston isn’t really a basketball city. There’s two titles in Houston but at the end of the day, the Texans success was the worst thing for the Rockets relevance.
5.) Certain cities are more basketball oriented. Boston, Oakland, etc… have teams that either have great history or lack of alternatives. The tragedy in all this is that Seattle was a fantastic basketball city and got their hearts ripped out.
Maireann croí éadrom i bhfad.
I think Houston is a baseball city before basketball.
The Astros just happen to suck right now.
Dallas and Houston fan making it work. Gig 'em!
True enough
The Rockets also sell a lot of tickets to businesses and they buy them for the deductions and the people often just don’t show up or when they do its just a bunch of OWGs. sipping their beers.
The other thing I think happens is the suites in TC.
it seems they have more of them than at the Compaq Center and I am not sure if those are counted in the numbers.
Either way though we need to support our teams.
"Do not panic, all is well" Kevin Bacon in the parade scene in the movie Animal House
by mjdinhouston on Jan 31, 2012 5:21 AM CST up reply actions
Our Roster isnt exciting
and hasnt been since Yao. They arent flashy, they just play basketball. Some people are still bitter about Rick being gone. Some may be staying true to their word of not watching the NBA because of the lockout. But look at some of the players on the teams you mentioned. Hornet just turned over thier whole roster, Nets are the only team in Newark sportswise, Kings have young exciting players in Evans and Cousins plus they’re trying to keep the team in Sactown, and the Wizards keep draftin high so they have young talent fans want to see. The Rockets have “assets” and a possible All-Star.
"Stability is a factor in teams that win the championship. But if you stabilize on a team that's going to end up short of that, then all you're doing is spinning your wheels in the 45-win range."-----Daryl Morey
by fanoflosingteams on Jan 27, 2012 9:38 AM CST reply actions
Lame excuse
This is why the Oilers moved to TN and everyone boo hooed. It was the fans own damned fault.
"Do not panic, all is well" Kevin Bacon in the parade scene in the movie Animal House
by mjdinhouston on Jan 28, 2012 9:07 AM CST up reply actions
The Oilers moved because Bud Adams demanded a new stadium when the city didn't have the money or interest in provididng one
(and, of course, when he had promised he wouldn’t try to move the team for 10 years after he forced the city to pay for renovations to the Astrodome; he of course started bringing up “new stadium” talk much sooner than that)
The Rockets received a $200+ million arena from the city. If the citizens of Houston don’t want to show up to the game, we’ve fucking earned the right to do it. Shut the fuck up.
This is my problem with this shit. This topic isn’t “Why aren’t Rockets fans showing up to games?” That’s an interesting question, and a topic that can be explored and answered. This stupid shit is “OMG THE ROCKETS FANS ARE PATHETIC!!!” It’s a values judgment. As if there were some higher purpose being denigrated because fans don’t want to pay $100+ per seat to sit in the lower bowl and see the Rockets play the Wizards.
by Only_A_Lad on Jan 28, 2012 10:47 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
^This^
"He was in my way, so I got him out of the way." - Arian Foster
by Catallac392 on Jan 28, 2012 10:50 AM CST up reply actions
Calm down buddy.
Some things gleaned here that I have questions about:
The Rockets received a $200+ million arena from the city.
Did the city council make the call or was there a voted upon memorandum by the citizens of the Houston metropolitan area? I am curious as to how this works because I know in regards to the Bills getting renovations to The Ralph this year it’s coming as part of a major aid package to Buffalo via the New York State budget that Cuomo highlighted. I wanted to know if it comes from city council, an aid package from the state, or if citizens voluntarily requested the funding.
If the citizens of Houston don’t want to show up to the game, we’ve fucking earned the right to do it.
The answer to question 1 really will dictate the question here. I say that mostly because if human beings are loss averse by nature (Which sociology dictates we are) wouldn’t it actually be a waste and a complete sunk cost to have “earned the right” (presumably through tax dollars that may or may not have solely come from citizens of the Houston metropolitan area) to allow that investment to merely stagnate and potentially leave?
It’s a values judgment.
Which leaves room for discussion and basis of opinion rather than just unfettered anger at the fact that someone disagrees. However, we can see here that grounds for discussion is not the road taken.
As if there were some higher purpose being denigrated because fans don’t want to pay $100+ per seat to sit in the lower bowl and see the Rockets play the Wizards.
I think the intimation is actually that rather than really showing up at all, in most seats, the TC is generally barren. As opined in this column Houston is struggling to put anyone in the seats and this ultimately hurts the bottom line. Now, this raises other issues (Such as how to get asses in those seats and if FA pursuit is the wisest way or sucking during a lockout season for a shot at a stud is the answer, but that is neither here nor there) that are outside the scope of this thread. The presumption here in general is, if you’re a Rockets fan, why does it matter who the Rockets are playing? You’re still seeing your Rockets.
Maireann croí éadrom i bhfad.
Don't condescend to me
Basically, there was a referendum in 2000. This came after an earlier, failed referendum the year prior, as well as a bunch of other attempts to get funding through the Texas legislature. It was largely orchestrated by the County’s “authority” for building these sorts of things, but there were a few fan initiatives to get people to vote for the referendum (that was actually ClutchFans.net’s original purpose).
to allow that investment to merely stagnate and potentially leave?
See, though, that’s the thing. The city has shelled out for a “state of the art” arena so that the team could essentially have guaranteed profits. They’re still making cash hand over fist off of luxury suites and season tickets from corporate accounts. That doesn’t mean that they don’t want us all to buy ticket packages and such, it’s just that they’re still making plenty of money this way.
Revenue streams these days aren’t based off of just getting asses in seats, as it were. That’s why they extort cities into building these pleasure palaces.
You can certainly have a legitimate discussion about a values judgement, but I think any values judgment concerning whether or not people are going to see a sports team play is inherently ridiculous. Questioning if Houston “deserves” the Rockets when we have set Les Alexander up with a sweetheart lease to a guaranteed revenue stream strikes me as just the stupidest of stupid shit.
As for “well, it’s still the Rockets playing,” the Rockets will play 33 games in Houston this year. I have plenty of opportunity to see them play. And at the cost they want me to pay to see the team, I would rather go see a good game than a game against a shit team. Rockets-Wizards is a much less interesting game than Rockets-Lakers or Rockets-Pacers or Rockets-Sixers. I have tickets to see the game against the Jazz in a couple of weeks, and that will probably be the first time I see them in person in Houston this year. I’m okay with that.
See, there can be a civil discussion had!
Thank you for informing me as to there being a referendum, it teaches me how it came about and lets me know that the city did have a voice.
As for whether or not the team could leave, if ticket prices continue to drop and attendance can’t sustain Alexander’s perception of what the return should be, I think a city like Seattle would happily offer a new venue if Alexander wanted to sell, these are considerations that, whether or not are plausible, need to be factored.
As for the games going on, my take is if you can snag a cheap ticket and have the time, why not? Buy the nosebleeds. The thing is, if a dedicated fan can’t be bothered to want to see them on a regular basis and the Rockets don’t appeal to the casual fan, what does that say about the viability of the team under current ownership/in current market? I think it’s a blended failure of both parties.
Maireann croí éadrom i bhfad.
what does that say about the viability of the team under current ownership/in current market?
I’d say that Les Alexander currently owns a team that, thanks to its arena, revenue stream, and television deals, is perennially valued in the top 10 franchises in the NBA (and over the past decade is usually in the top 5; the Rockets were one of the few teams going into the lockout not making the ridiculous claim that they are losing money), and as such there is zero danger of the market being declared “nonviable” for the next two decades (when the lease runs out and the Rockets make another lame attempt at getting the city to shell out more cash, certainly this time for “necessary upgrades”).
So you know Leslie's bottom line projections?
Viability is a determination by the owner of the team as to whether or not he’s getting the rate of return he is expecting.
Maireann croí éadrom i bhfad.
Actually the city gave them no money they leased the land
They are getting it back. We ae not talking about the citizens of Houston we are talking Rockets fans as if fandom stops at the cities borders.
Don’t pay $100+ to see them play the Wizards, pay less and enjoy your team thrashing the other guy. Its not just attendance either. Is just seems when the ROckets have some bad years fans crap all over them and only jump back on the bandwagon when they are doing well.
Hey everyone has to decide what to do with his or her leftover income in this economy so I get why attendance might be down especially for the working stiffs but from what I have seen over the 10 years I have lived here it just seems they are fair weather fans. I don’t know maybe I see this through shit colored glasses instead of reality.
"Do not panic, all is well" Kevin Bacon in the parade scene in the movie Animal House
by mjdinhouston on Jan 31, 2012 5:31 AM CST up reply actions
I think everyone knows we dont have a Franchise Player
and anyone on the team might not be by the trade deadline or this summer. Im sure they arent selling any jerseys either. Also, people were kinda high on the Texans/Football and are just now realizing we have a basketball team again.
This year I have been to the pre-season Spurs game, the OKC game that was on a Saturday, and im going this Saturday vs the Knicks.
Even the sorry teams have THAT player thats the future of their franchise…..the Rockets dont. They are in a transition period and I think thats what hurting attendance the most.
I would not be surprised if the team got moved to another city because this city does not deserve to have a basketball team.
This was really funny. It’s like you have no idea how much money the Rockets are worth or something.
This might not be an accurate depiction of fan support.
New TV deal is for much more – so obviously people are watching. Attendance, when compared to max stadium capacity, is actually fine, and the value of the franchise is like 5th to 7th depending on who you ask. I don’t like the empty seats in the lower bowl, but people shelled out a ton to get those, and if they choose to stay at work or whatever, what can you do?
"Each in turn... volunteered his suggestions, his invaluable suggestions."
Sure but we don't get any national TV where the big money is.
Mr. Alexander did well inking the deal with Comcast but we need the fan support.
A lot of those lower seats are upgrades they are doing the night of games and are pulling them down to the lower bowl.
Our attendance is down and our ticket sales are down too.
THe Knicks will not be sold out and they are ALWAYS sold out.
"Do not panic, all is well" Kevin Bacon in the parade scene in the movie Animal House
by mjdinhouston on Jan 28, 2012 9:14 AM CST up reply actions
You have no idea that national television revenue is split up in the NBA, do you?
Seriously, everyone, think before you write. If you’re about to make a claim like “The Lakers get extra money because they’re on TNT all the time,” check that. You might learn something.
by Only_A_Lad on Jan 28, 2012 10:50 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
MJD mentioned national media?
I didn’t know. I mean, when I read it, personally, Comcast would be the local market. Certain markets are worth more than others. But if you want to interject what mjd meant I assume your reading is superior to anyone else’s or mjd’s initial intent, so I will defer.
Maireann croí éadrom i bhfad.
I really meant when you get the exposure
Then you get the opportunity for more corporate deals, more excitement about your team that can generate. Yeah I know the money is split up but it would be nice to get some national TV love. It seems like a chicken or the egg argument maybe. If we get better do we get the national exposure or if we got some nation TV time would it generate excitement.
I guess I also meant that It TV revenue only goes so far. Ticket sales are important and I think players love playing in front of sold out buildings with the fans screaming like maniacs for their team. Again which comes first, filled buildings and excitement that might help attract big names or convincing a big name to come and help fill the building?
Been a long week, sorry Ihave been babbling
"Do not panic, all is well" Kevin Bacon in the parade scene in the movie Animal House
by mjdinhouston on Jan 31, 2012 5:40 AM CST up reply actions
While I think people should go out and support the Rockets
I’m a hypocrite because I’m about an hour and a half away, and I just can’t get myself to go. I went to 3 games last year and I got to see Blake Griffin, Durant, and the Celtics. We don’t have a player like that to watch. I still watch all of the games at home, but they are hard to watch. At the end of the day it’s entertainment, the people are letting the team know they aren’t being entertained anymore.
by twinkilling0303 on Jan 27, 2012 10:01 AM CST reply actions
1.5 hours is a long trip
I don’t blame people for not wanting to take that trip on a regular basis but we have a lot of Friday and Saturday night games this year.
I challenge you thought to come see who will lead the team each night. It is always a different player although Martin has been pretty consistent. They are scrappy, fighters and are not giving and inch to any one.
"Do not panic, all is well" Kevin Bacon in the parade scene in the movie Animal House
by mjdinhouston on Jan 28, 2012 9:17 AM CST up reply actions
Why is this surprising, anyways?
Have you seen the Rockets’ regular-season attendance numbers over the last decade? They’re horrific. The best we’ve ever done is 16th in the league (’08, ’09). This is nothing new.
The playoffs sell out and nothing else. That’s how it works. Ho hum who gives a shit?
So, anyways
saying it’s that we don’t have a star is deeply suspicious, since it’s not like the Rockets did much (or, very often any) better when they had the likes of Steve Francis, Yao Ming, or T-Mac on the team.
H-Town is just apathetic. Meh.
if the Rockets had a
Blake Griffen or a KD35 the attendance would still be about the same? Would they sell out every nite, maybe not. But I think it also has somethin to do with the lack of production in the playoffs. No star/flashy player + little playoff success= low attendance. The Clippers and TWolves had lower attendance then the Rockets last year, this year they are above them and both teams, pretty much, just added a flashy PG.
"Stability is a factor in teams that win the championship. But if you stabilize on a team that's going to end up short of that, then all you're doing is spinning your wheels in the 45-win range."-----Daryl Morey
by fanoflosingteams on Jan 27, 2012 10:18 AM CST up reply actions
Playoff success didn't seem to help much, either.
In 1995 the Rockets were 17th in the league in attendance. In ’96 they were 20th. In ’97 they were 18th.
A lack of “star power” doesn’t explain poor attendance, because even when the Rockets had it (and when they also had the most playoff success you could hope for) they didn’t do well in attendance. Maybe that’s because the Summit/Compaq Center was outdated. Maybe that was because of pricing, too. But whatever it is, it really doesn’t appear to be the star thing.
Yep.
The Rockets have put every conceivable combination of “star power”, “exciting player”, “franchise cornerstone”, “contender” on the court over the years and attendance doesn’t really budge much. It doesn’t matter – Toyota Center is a moneyspinner for them.
But you’re right, playoffs sell out, and playoff tickets cost more. Maybe that is an explanation for Alexander’s desire to always reach the post-season?
And if you’re got a team that can do that, and you add a big time FA or do a trade like the Rockets did/didn’t? Maybe you can win it all.
"Each in turn... volunteered his suggestions, his invaluable suggestions."
by Xiane on Jan 27, 2012 12:52 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
Last Season Avg Ticket prices
Thats way to high for the Rockets when they are not even a playoff team.
Los Angeles Lakers – $174.64
New York Knicks – $133.13
Miami Heat – $126.51
Boston Celtics – $116.19
Toronto Raptors – $102.75
Chicago Bulls – $93.28
Houston Rockets – $83.41
San Antonio Spurs – $79.39
Los Angeles Clippers – $73.38
Dallas Mavericks – $72.73
Phoenix Suns – $72.03
Orlando Magic – $67.89
Golden State Warriors – $67.26
Washington Wizards – $66.74
Memphis Grizzlies – $65.97
Atlanta Hawks – $60.36
Philadelphia 76ers – $59.96
Portland Trail Blazers – $59.38
Oklahoma City Thunder – $59.14
Cleveland Cavaliers – $58.34
Denver Nuggets – $58.11
Sacramento Kings – $55.28
Indiana Pacers – $52.51
Charlotte Bobcats – $52.50
New Orleans Hornets – $51.08
Milwaukee Bucks – $46.60
New Jersey Nets – $43.92
Utah Jazz – $37.57
Minnesota Timberwolves – $35.55
Detroit Pistons – $34.49
by Texas08 on Jan 27, 2012 10:09 AM CST reply actions 3 recs
Basic microeconomics of no response between quality of product and price of product?
Maireann croí éadrom i bhfad.
Prop Joe would find this disgraceful
gotta have the product if you’re gonna buy for 1, sell for 2
by twinkilling0303 on Jan 27, 2012 10:21 AM CST up reply actions
you seem to be misunderstanding my point
if you lower prices, quantity demanded should rise, because right now willingness to pay is low.
Quantity demanded will increase, but that's not technically what they're looking for.
I’m guessing you know what I mean when I say Demand curve so I’ll trust you to know.
Imagine a graph for The Rockets, we have an inelastic Supply line going straight up from the say 14,000 Quantity Supplied point. 14,000 being the number of tickets available, that’s not going to change unless they take out or add chairs.
Next, we have a Demand curve that goes from the top left corner down to lower part of the inelastic supply line. If you change price to say 50$, it moves down the demand curve at the 50$/ticket average which the quantity demanded for Rocket Tickets is equal to the 14,000 tickets supplied.
Okay, that’s what I feel like you want, what BD is stating is that we need the demand curve to shift rightward. There are a few factors that can make this happen:
1. Increased consumer income
2. Tastes and Preferences (How much they like the team/experience of the game)
3. Consumer’s expectations about the future (We have a young team that is going to be good, so get tickets now before the prices are really high when they are good.)
For the first one, maybe the economy gets fixed and everybody gets more money in their pockets and they start going to more Rockets games and the demand curve is shifted right.
The second one, the team gets better, more people are willing to buy tickets because they enjoy the team more, the demand curve is shifted right.
The third, consumers expect that in the future, the price is going to increase, or the team is going to get better. This also causes a shift in the demand curve.
Most businesses want their demand curve as far right as they can get it, because that’s how they sell more quantity and make more money. Rockets should be looking to do this.
Dallas and Houston fan making it work. Gig 'em!
by OJ ATM on Jan 27, 2012 1:08 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
I don't think demand moves much with price in this case.
Attendance history stays remarkably consistent.
Rockets have a certain steady demand for very high priced tickets that make them money. If you lower prices generally, would you destroy demand for your premium seats as there’s now a cheaper near substitute? I’d be afraid that is what would happen if I were the Rockets.
"Each in turn... volunteered his suggestions, his invaluable suggestions."
I don't know much about The Rockets attendance numbers
But, what I’m saying is with a move down the original demand line we have now, at 50$ average per ticket we sell out all the games.
What my goal would be is to shift the demand curve to the right, so at an average price of 80$ we sell out the stadium.
Dallas and Houston fan making it work. Gig 'em!
by OJ ATM on Jan 27, 2012 1:24 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Sure.
I see that. But as it apparently turns out, on average the Rockets sit fairly near capacity with high prices – those figures are gross numbers and TC ranks 14th in size for arenas (see below). Coming in 16th then, isn’t a dismal performance at all.
And the thing is, lines on graphs move more easily than dollars and people.
"Each in turn... volunteered his suggestions, his invaluable suggestions."
I'm saying for improvement this needs to happen.
“And the thing is, lines on graphs move more easily than dollars and people.”
They move due to the dollars and people.
Dallas and Houston fan making it work. Gig 'em!
by OJ ATM on Jan 27, 2012 2:33 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
You made an interesting point
Are we talking about ticket sales or attendance because they are not the same. I don’t know what their differential is. Does anyone have those numbers. It could be the tickets are sold and we have a large number of no shows. a 10% no show rate is big in an arena that only can hold 18,000.
I am definitely not good with numbers so I defer to the amazing experts on this blog.
"Do not panic, all is well" Kevin Bacon in the parade scene in the movie Animal House
by mjdinhouston on Jan 31, 2012 5:48 AM CST up reply actions
If I'm an arena/basketball team my goal first is to sell tickets.
It’s all about money, first goal selling tickets second goal getting the people to actually go to the game.
Dallas and Houston fan making it work. Gig 'em!
With Houston you have a certain amount of demand that doesn't apparently fluctuate much over time. No matter what.
And is not terribly price sensitive.
What do you do?
"Each in turn... volunteered his suggestions, his invaluable suggestions."
Time to go be a Piston fan
"I’m not dumb. I just have a command of thoroughly useless information." Bill Watterson~Calvin and Hobbes
by The Chuckwagon has rolled on on Jan 27, 2012 6:09 PM CST up reply actions
This Mkee
Dallas and Houston fan making it work. Gig 'em!
by OJ ATM on Jan 27, 2012 10:20 AM CST via mobile reply actions
Mistype on my phone, accidentally pressed go
Dallas and Houston fan making it work. Gig 'em!
by OJ ATM on Jan 27, 2012 10:22 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Well thanks for making me feel good about myself.
I guess im a pathetic Rockets fan because I don’t go to games.
Dallas and Houston fan making it work. Gig 'em!
by OJ ATM on Jan 27, 2012 10:21 AM CST via mobile reply actions
yall could go to tha games wit me bros....i gots season tickets
put a D*ck in ur ear and F*ck wat u hurd
by mitmil22 on Jan 27, 2012 10:31 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Hard for me to attend Rockets games without spending thousands every year in airfare.
I’m in DC.
Maireann croí éadrom i bhfad.
And I would totally take you up on that
If I wasn’t in Lubbock.
Was too far to huck a beer at a Stro’s player as per bone’s request. Jess (girlfriend) said I was too far, I said challenge accepted, a security guard said guess again.-BD34
That is the reason I don't go to Battle Red Blog. I would be too rational and guys would flag my posts as spam.-batman713
North Carolina
flayed ones stealth mode
"Fleshling! Do not shoot! For I am one of you fleshy things. It is I. Your Uncle Stan. Can't you tell by the long strips of fleshy substances covered in bodily fluids? Trust me! I have fleeeeeeeeesh."
Nebraska, bitches
"I’m not dumb. I just have a command of thoroughly useless information." Bill Watterson~Calvin and Hobbes
by The Chuckwagon has rolled on on Jan 27, 2012 11:25 PM CST up reply actions
Southern Hemisphere. Top that.
Australia. According to google maps, it’s a fair Kyak to TC
by Camouflage14 on Jan 28, 2012 1:53 AM CST up reply actions
Well damn, that's a hell of a ways away.
"I’m not dumb. I just have a command of thoroughly useless information." Bill Watterson~Calvin and Hobbes
by The Chuckwagon has rolled on on Jan 28, 2012 12:52 PM CST up reply actions
Ok then
The answer is apparent. No Rockets fans are actually living in the Houston area.
"Do not panic, all is well" Kevin Bacon in the parade scene in the movie Animal House
by mjdinhouston on Jan 31, 2012 5:51 AM CST up reply actions
Stranger Danger!
Kidding, but not kidding at the same time.
Dallas and Houston fan making it work. Gig 'em!
ya bros but least theres
a lots of rockets fans ….i respect that……jus sayin
put a D*ck in ur ear and F*ck wat u hurd
by mitmil22 on Jan 27, 2012 5:23 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I was looking at the past 12 years of attendence figures -
http://espn.go.com/nba/attendance/_/year/2007
The Rockets on average for the past 12 years have the LOWEST ATTENDENCE VERSUS WINS figures. EVEN WHEN WE HAD TWO SUPERSTARS AND HOPE in 2005 the Rockets were 23rd in attendence. Start of the decade we were last.
Perhaps the marketing is just terrible
Maybe the price of tickets and concessions is just beyond what an average fan would pay for one game. It might be a combination of all of the above. Something is wrong, and it’s NOT the lack of star power. Maybe Houstonians just don’t care about basketball as much as football and baseball? It’d be interesting to see ticket sales in the post-Oilers/pre-Texans years and see if ticket sales were better in those years.
My thoughts are like Brian Cushing on the field: Everywhere.
by f22a4bandit on Jan 27, 2012 11:14 AM CST up reply actions
Nope...the numbers weren't any better
I’m chalking in marketing/game day pricing for the root cause. It’s pretty fucking pathetic to be quite honest.
My thoughts are like Brian Cushing on the field: Everywhere.
by f22a4bandit on Jan 27, 2012 11:16 AM CST up reply actions
I went to 14 games last year
none so far this year. The lockout really pissed me off. This so called season is a joke and will have an * next to it in the records. The prices are high but they were last year also.
Fact is, the team is fun to watch but not exciting.
I just realized that Toyota Center maximum capacity filled would still still leave the Rockets 14th in terms of attendence as the Toyota Centers’ capacity is just over 18000
by VBG on Jan 27, 2012 12:38 PM CST reply actions 3 recs
...
Check out The Dream Shake.
by Patrick Harrel on Jan 27, 2012 1:11 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
Lol. Too funny.
Dallas and Houston fan making it work. Gig 'em!
gotta love your sense of humor
"Do not panic, all is well" Kevin Bacon in the parade scene in the movie Animal House
by mjdinhouston on Jan 31, 2012 5:53 AM CST up reply actions
I don’t understand star players’ thinking…
… Houston is the 4th largest city in the nation, has warm weather, and Texas (to my knowledge) has no state income tax yet it seems no superstar wants to even consider playing there.
My questions is: why the hell not? It’s not like Bill Bidwell runs the Rockets so the owner’s not a tightwad…
.
I had to stop arguing with drunks, Steeler fans, and all other fools.
It was making my brick wall jealous...
.
Dedicated to the "Pride of the Steelers"
.
* = “question”…
… not “questions”…
.
I had to stop arguing with drunks, Steeler fans, and all other fools.
It was making my brick wall jealous...
.
Dedicated to the "Pride of the Steelers"
.
by steeler-hater on Jan 27, 2012 1:19 PM CST up reply actions
This is pretty recent.
The more accurate answer is “right now” no big star wants to come here. Remember that over time the Rockets have attracted a number of big stars. Some sustained success and the Rockets will again become attractive. It will, surprisingly, help if McHale gets a strong rep as a “players” coach – Rudy T was part of the attraction long ago. JVG? Not so much.
Also when considering the LALs of the world, note that they’ve been willing to simply blow through the cap and pay the taxes – so they end up with more stars. LA put much more than double OKCs salaries on the court last year, for instance. This will change somewhat with the more punitive salary rules. Only about 3-4 teams COULD sustain LAs payroll last year.
"Each in turn... volunteered his suggestions, his invaluable suggestions."
This a football state
And at heart, a football city. The Texans have been doing well and its only gonna get better now that they are actually good. Love basketball but admittedly, it can be boring.
Madame de Staël once said, "One must choose in life between boredom and suffering." De Staël is dead but there is always an alternative.
This is where the cool is.
I think thats part of it also
The Texans have only made the playoffs once, but have been no further than 11th in attendance since 2006.
"Stability is a factor in teams that win the championship. But if you stabilize on a team that's going to end up short of that, then all you're doing is spinning your wheels in the 45-win range."-----Daryl Morey
by fanoflosingteams on Jan 27, 2012 6:47 PM CST up reply actions
Why is attendance bad in Houston???
because big companies dish out tickets to people who don’t go… trust me, I know. Now we’re talking about attendance being low, not tickets being sold. Although, there is a decline on individual tickets being sold this year (pretty good deals out there to go get good seats). My company has tickets. One of my vendors give out tickets. I know that at least 3 games this season, there was a row of 6 empty seats about 8th row center court because tickets were given to a party who had no interest in attending. I could only imagine how many times this happens, with all the businesses and corporations who do this.
The Toyota Center at times looks really sad, it looks like one of those 1 pm tip off d-league games.
temporary avatar change...
Okay, let's be honest then.
Give a reason for fans to show up and they will. I love the Rockets and would go to every fan if I had the time and didn’t live in Dallas, but your average fan isn’t going to come out and spend their time watching an average team. Give fans a reason to show up and they will. Until then, don’t complain. Sorry, as much as I love Dalembert he isn’t going to sell tickets.
Best Quote From A Current Rocket :
'B****, meet me outside. I will kick you’re a**'.
-The great Kyle Lowry
Perhaps a suggestion to the front office
for student discounts.
"Do not panic, all is well" Kevin Bacon in the parade scene in the movie Animal House
by mjdinhouston on Jan 31, 2012 5:55 AM CST up reply actions
I've been going to every weekend game available this season.
Fuck High School. If I get a 15 dollar offer to hit up the Yote then I’m in.
Sonicsgate: A movie about how the Sonics were stolen from Seattle.
Well.
I’m a student. And I work two jobs. And live on my own. And i’ve got season tickets and find ways to make it to every game possible. Do I deserve any awards? Maybe, but definitely not for attending Rockets games. I can’t seriously expect people to have the same type of commitment to these games as I do. It’s all just a matter of circumstances.
And to be frank, calling people pathetic for not attending a over priced game for a mediocre team (I love this team, and it pains me to admit this) is not the avenue i’d take to get a response. Just saying.
by andrewwax on Jan 27, 2012 11:20 PM CST reply actions 2 recs
Peep this homey.
Houston has over 4 million people in it (more if you count illegals). With the amount of people in this city we should be able to get more people to come to our games especially considering the Rockets are the only major sports franchise with a fuckin’ championship. WE HAVE TWO DAMNIT! From personal experience the people in Houston complain when the Rockets aren’t doing well and never show up when they are doing well. That is pathetic. Even when we were contenders fans didn’t give a shit. I am speaking from personal interactions from pathetic Houston sports fans. When I am at the barber shop and I here someone diss the Rockets I defend them and I am ALWAYS the ONLY one doing it. These people will only appreciate the Rockets when they get shipped off to a city with better fans like Seattle. Those people deserve a pro basketball team more than the ones here.
I hate david stern!
Maybe you should talk to the marketing department?
You can’t blame a consumer for not wanting to purchase goods. That’s like telling someone they are a terrible car enthusiast because they don’t want to buy a Mercedes. Bad example, since the Rockets aren’t “Mercedes” quality, but you should get the point.
If a firm puts out a fantastic product, people will buy it at all price levels. I think market efficiency and price elasticity are two things you may want to look into, among other things. Until then, join the street team or something.
Best Quote From A Current Rocket :
'B****, meet me outside. I will kick you’re a**'.
-The great Kyle Lowry
I would 1st have to see what others are doing right before I know what we are doing wrong.
Maybe it is the marketing department. But for every maybe there is a maybe not.
I hate david stern!
people got jobs to hold on too!
Hard to find a job, so i just watch at home with my kids, cuz when i get off work my wife going to work. I wish I had the time really I do…..
For all those fantasy footballers wondering how much I will play tomorrow. My coach told me +%\+_^|@-&/&/@:&"-!?/!!/?/@/$. Hope that helps! -Foster
I totally understand but...
There is people in your situation in every NBA city. The thing is we are the 4th largest city in the nation and we cannot get people to watch our team that is doing better than teams with better attendance and worse records. This is where my frustration lies. I am a student with no job and no car right now and my family comes from humble beginnings. But you better believe anytime my brother can get his hands on some tickets he is coming to get me and we are speeding to Toyota Center. If you offered a random person in Houston Rockets tickets they would most likely turn them down or accept them and forget they had them. When I finish school and get a job I will make it a priority to at least attend every Friday, Saturday, and Sunday game I can to start then gradually move on to season tickets. People in Houston don’t have this kind of passion.
I hate david stern!
It's not that they don't had that kind of passion
It’s that they have things called priorities. I own 2 businesses and work a full time job. In pull in 6 figures a year and just graduated undergrad in August. I would rather build jobs and be the most efficient contributor to society that I can versus committing a guaranteed 3 nights a week to something that produces no long term returns. For me, the opportunity cost of attending a game is too high; the money I don’t make becaus I am at a game for 3 or 4 hours far exceeds almost any ticket they sell at the Toyota Center for a Rockets game.
Imagine what you could do if you took that committed 12 hour (minimum) a week and did something productive. The amount of money I would pay for an additional 12 hours a week is unseemly. Imagine if you had a job waiting tables during those shifts and averaged a conservative $10/ hour. That’s $102 after taxes, assuming that your only in the 15% marginal tax bracket. $102 extra per week on top of the cost of 3 tickets, hotdogs, drinks, etc. easil another, what, $100? Okay, so now your looking at $200 per week or $800 per month. Well, there’s your rent right there. Coming from humble beginnings and not having a car I would think that your time even would better be spent elsewhere than watching our beloved Houston Rockets.
Best Quote From A Current Rocket :
'B****, meet me outside. I will kick you’re a**'.
-The great Kyle Lowry
Please excuse the grammatical errors, the iPad makes this very difficult to adjust.
Best Quote From A Current Rocket :
'B****, meet me outside. I will kick you’re a**'.
-The great Kyle Lowry
Again
There are guys like you in every NBA city who still manage to make it to a game or two. If you are making six figs a year and cannot of afford to go to one 2.5 hour sporting event in a whole year then guys like you are what is wrong with our fan base. Full of excuses. I can guarantee there is at least one person that goes to the games that more money than you do. Nothing wrong with contributing to society but there is also nothing wrong with going to one single Rockets game. If your job is your whole life then prepare for an early grave.
I hate david stern!
On Stub Hub
Rocket/Twolves games one in each castle.
Feb 4 Saturday Rockets @ TWolves Sideline Row 1 $223
Feb 17 Friday TWolves @ Rockets Sideline Row 13 $266
Thats an extra $42 dollars per ticket to see the same 2 teams play, but you’re 12 rows back. This obvioulsy doesnt include parking, beer, and food.
"Stability is a factor in teams that win the championship. But if you stabilize on a team that's going to end up short of that, then all you're doing is spinning your wheels in the 45-win range."-----Daryl Morey
by fanoflosingteams on Jan 28, 2012 7:15 AM CST up reply actions
Well
Unfortunately “people like me” make consumerism possible for people like you. Sad truth.
Best Quote From A Current Rocket :
'B****, meet me outside. I will kick you’re a**'.
-The great Kyle Lowry
by Photomoney on Jan 29, 2012 1:38 AM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Of course you could have your business purchase tickets, take some "clients" with you and write off the costs.
But hey I respect the hell out of someone and is working as hard as you are especially in this economy but if we are answering the question are Houston fans pathetic it might involve more than just showing up at games although it is amazing when TC is full of rowdy fans. ( I know it doesn’t happen often). Supporting them in these blogs helps too. Criticize them when they deserve it but love them always.
If a city wants a professional sports team then they need to support it or it will go away. That means thousands of jobs are affected. We saw that when the Oilers left.
"Do not panic, all is well" Kevin Bacon in the parade scene in the movie Animal House
by mjdinhouston on Jan 31, 2012 6:05 AM CST up reply actions
Looks to me like they need to get lucky via the draft…
… if they can get a great player that way, then maybe some other great ones will wanna come here via free agency…
.
I had to stop arguing with drunks, Steeler fans, and all other fools.
It was making my brick wall jealous...
.
Dedicated to the "Pride of the Steelers"
.
Don't let anyone read you want to strike gold in a deep draft. I see people get harassed for such an opinion!
Maireann croí éadrom i bhfad.
If karma exists, the Rockets will get a top 12 pick from the Knicks this year. I’m sure Morey planned for those Melo wrist and ankle injuries.
It was only a matter of time before Amare
started to suck the life out of that team. He should be in the next Twilight movie.
"Do not panic, all is well" Kevin Bacon in the parade scene in the movie Animal House
by mjdinhouston on Jan 31, 2012 6:07 AM CST up reply actions
The fan atmosphere at the Toyota Center...
is one of the most depressing ever. I’m currently in school (at a basketball crazy college), and every time I come home I want to yell and scream and start chants for Kyle Lowry, but the fact is I’m drowned out by obnoxious noise of the PA system, or would be yelled at to sit down by some bored fan 3 rows behind me on his Iphone.
The explosion of comments on this post speaks to the seriousness of this matter.
People like to say we need stars on this team for people to come watch, but I ask what star wants to come and play ball in a city where the fans don’t really care about what you’re doing? When people go play at MSG they always talk about how great a basketball atmosphere it is. I am not saying we should be like them but we have 0 passion and at times guys just don’t look like they are having fun playing in Houston. It can be quite discouraging. I’m not sure stars are necessarily going to big market cities, but rather places where basketball is appreciated. Clearly basketball is not appreciated here in H-Town.
I hate david stern!
The problem with the NBA, in general, is that there's not really a fan experience like you find in other sports.
Several articles touched on it during the lockout. It’s not like football, where you tailgate and shoot the breeze with other fans for a few hours before heading into the stadium. It isn’t the NHL, where fans are pounding on the glass all game, and there are intense moments of concentrated excitement (goals.) It isn’t the MLB, where the main draw is some form of culture or Americana. It isn’t college basketball, where the band and the student section are tearing down the house. There’s just no atmosphere at any NBA game. Period. There’s no reason to go to the games when there’s nothing unique about the format.
The fact that 5 of the top 10 teams in attendance are in a non-NFL market (and another 2 are in areas that haven’t seen a local NFL game on TV this year) seems to agree with me.
Furthermore, I think there’s a point to be made that Houston’s profile isn’t one of a major NBA city. I realize this is mostly perception, but let’s take a look at the top 10 attendance markets:
1. Chicago: Major party town, tourist trap, and hipster city with storied NBA history.
2. Portland: Only major sports team in the area, and hipster capital of the Pacific Northwest.
3. Dallas: Major party town
4. Miami: …South Beach. Need I say more?
5. New York: …I’m not even going to say anything.
6. Salt Lake City (Utah): They’re the only major sports team in the state.
7. LA: Major party town and tourist trap with storied NBA history.
8. Orlando: …Disneyworld. There is no bigger tourist trap.
9. Bay Area: Lots of tourists, lots of partying.
10. Boston: Storied NBA History. Don’t really know much else about the city.
Now, if we skip a few…
28. Houston: Industrial city. Not the kind of place you’d want to spend a weekend. People tend to live within their means, try not to spend too much.
In order to support my point, I’d like to cross-reference this list as well:
http://money.cnn.com/2011/03/04/pf/cities_credit_card_debt/index.htm#anchor
I’m not saying debt is good for an NBA city, but credit card debt is a massive sign that the residents of a city are willing to spend on luxuries like NBA games.
But most of all, I think the NBA’s business model is outdated. Much like the pre-lockout NHL, the modern NBA is a blue-collar sport marketed to white-collar fans. Ticket prices, for the average person, are too high to be bought throughout a full-season. Sure, they might be affordable once or twice a season, but even if every fan goes to one or two games a season, that’s still not going to get the job done. In order to sell out a stadium, you need repeat buyers, and that’s not going to happen if there’s nothing to draw you to the game.
If you don’t go to Rockets games now, what will draw you in the future?
It’s not like the atmosphere is going to blow you away.
There aren’t any angles on the play that you miss by staying home.
Commercials are no more unbearable than stadium music.
You miss out on the commentary if you go to the game.
The view on your flat screen is better than what you’d get from cheap tickets.
I don’t understand what they’re expecting us to go for. Today, the experience is flat-out better if you watch the game from home.
Houston Texans: 1 Playoff Win.
Vince Young, Dunta Robinson, and Jason Babin: 0 Combined Playoff Wins.
After thinking on this overnight, it seems to be making more sense.
And I think that Leslie Alexander has probably come to the same realization. That would explain why ticket prices are so high, too. Given the crowd that goes to Rockets games, nothing significant will be lost if ticket prices are a little higher than they should be. Since Toyota Center is fairly small (3rd smallest in the league behind Power Balance Pavilion and New Orleans Arena), ticket sales aren’t going to be where the Rockets make their money, anyway. If I were going to venture a guess, I’d say that the reason the Rox are one of the more valuable franchises in the league is due to their TV deal.
Now, don’t get me wrong here. Rockets fans are not necessarily bad fans. They just don’t have the time and expendable money to blow on a regular basis throughout a 43-game stretch.
Houston Texans: 1 Playoff Win.
Vince Young, Dunta Robinson, and Jason Babin: 0 Combined Playoff Wins.
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